Did God turn his back on Israel and Islam? |
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honeto
Senior Member Male Islam Joined: 20 March 2008 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
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The funny thing about the Bible account is that when Isaac was born Ishmael was already 14 years old. While the Bible portrays Ishmael as a small child while in those days a 15 year old man was an..adult!
"And Abraham arose early in the morning, and he took bread and a leather pouch of water, and he gave [them] to Hagar, he placed [them] on her shoulder, and the child, and he sent her away; and she went and wandered in the desert of Beer sheba." "And the water was depleted from the leather pouch, and she cast the child under one of the bushes" " Rise, pick up the lad and grasp your hand upon him, for I shall make him into a great nation." Also remember to add a couple of years for Isaac weaning period! "And the child grew and was weaned, and Abraham made a great feast on the day that Isaac was weaned." So that makes Ishmael at least 16 years of age!!!!!!!!! So how many problems we will have to deal with in the Bible? Hasan Edited by honeto - 24 January 2013 at 1:03pm |
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Well for myself I never did say that God turned His back on Ishmael. On the contrary I said, "He has his part to play." I was only answering your question, i.e. and what is this mistreatment of Isaac by Ishmael, from where do you get that? Edited by Caringheart - 24 January 2013 at 2:50pm |
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Kish
Guest Group Joined: 07 July 2011 Status: Offline Points: 237 |
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Hasan, you haven't stated any problem yet. You are still grasping for straws, the fact still remains the same as I have stated before and shown. Ishmael was NOT part of the covenant, he never was.
No wonder he is NOT stated, even in the Quran as the child that was to be sacrificed! The Bible rightly stated Isaac. |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Kish,
I don't think we can rightly say that God turned His back on Ishmael. God did say that Ishmael too would become a mighty nation, or people. The Hebrew scriptures give us a limited glimpse of God's plan for Ishmael and those mighty people. 9 Then the angel of the Lord told her, �Go back to your mistress and submit to her.� 10 The angel added, �I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count.� 11 The angel of the Lord also said to her: �You are now pregnant 11 The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son. 12 But God said to him, �Do not be so distressed about the boy and your slave woman. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned. 13 I will make the son of the slave into a nation also, because he is your offspring.� God makes His covenant with Isaac but He doesn't exactly turn His back on Ishmael. In fact God comes to save Ishmael and Hagar when they are in need of water, and He leads them to a land where they can live, doesn't He. 20 God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer. 21 While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt. Ishmael factors into God's plan as well. He has his part to play. I have thought it odd, or interesting, that the Hebrew scriptures were the only record of Ishmael and he seems to have disappeared from the radar after leaving Abraham. Until Muhammad, it seems no one spoke of an Ishmael, after what was written in the Hebrew scriptures. Edited by Caringheart - 27 January 2013 at 11:49pm |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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I have just gone back and read the opening of this thread and I would say this;
the people of Israel turned their backs of God... or some of them did... I would certainly say there are those today who either, never lost their way, or found their way back. and the people of Ishmael obviously forgot God as well, since they established the Kabba and idol worship... but then there were those who chose to follow Muhammad and believe in the one God again. So does this mean God turned His back on them? There are people in all faiths that have turned their back on God, but has God turned His back on them, or does God still invite His lost children to come to Him? Does God wish for any of His creation to be lost, or does He offer every hope and every chance of salvation? |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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Kish
Guest Group Joined: 07 July 2011 Status: Offline Points: 237 |
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Them as in who, Israel and Islam or neither one? God has kept his promise that they become a mighty nation. However, his covenant was broken. It was only if they kept his covenant that he would continue to be with them as a nation. |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Hi Kish, How many times did God say; "I will never leave you, nor forsake you" I am saying that it is not God who turns His back on any of His creation... He is always inviting us to come to Him. It is people who turn their back on God, and cause their own selves to lose His blessings. God will never turn His back. "Knock and the door will open, seek and you will find, ask and you will be given" God will allow things to befall us though, when we turn our backs on Him. He will not intervene if we are not seeking Him. But He doesn't turn His back, does He? Isn't He always waiting there with open arms 'if we will but turn and seek His face'? Blessings to you, Caringheart 44 And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the Lord their God. 45 But
I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I
brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen,
that I might be their God: I am the Lord. Edited by Caringheart - 28 January 2013 at 10:21am |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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honeto
Senior Member Male Islam Joined: 20 March 2008 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
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and contradicted. Read the details before. According to the Bible if any is addressed as "your only son" at any time would be before the birth of Isaac. So there you have it, the fact. Hasan |
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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