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AhmadJoyia
Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647 |
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Those who have converted to Islam, are called Muslims; no discrimination or distinction is required within Muslims as they become part of one Uma. Thus, when Quran specifically admonishes the 'People of the Book' for example, for killing their past Prophets or not adhering to the Word of God etc., do you think that those who had become Muslims among them, deserve such a treatment? Thus, my brother it is time to make correction in your understanding of Quran, otherwise, you need to provide a solid evidence to support your theory? May Allah guide us to the right path. Ameen! |
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abuayisha
Senior Member Muslim Joined: 05 October 1999 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 5105 |
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Ameen!
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Where Muhammad (or the qur'an, or islam) teaches that it is ok to stone to death a woman for adultery,
Yshwe (known as Jesus) teaches exactly the opposite. 8 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. How can a muslim claim to respect Yshwe when their leader, Muhammad, teaches the opposite of what Yshwe came to teach? Edited by Caringheart - 10 December 2015 at 3:33pm |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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AhmadJoyia
Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647 |
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IMHO, there are no verses in Quran that teaches it is ok to stone to death a woman for adultery! You should provide your evidence from Quran, if you think otherwise! Hopefully, your distorted ideas about Islam may get corrected. Best regards. |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Greetings AhmadJoyia, The qur'an says: 24:2 "The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment."so, 100 lashes, which is not the same as stoning. The hadith do speak of stoning for adultery. and there is this: According to Umar (Muhammad's companion and Islam's second caliph) "[Allah] sent down the Book (Quran) upon him (Muhamad), and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him." Umar went on to insist that "Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah's Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or if there is pregnancy, or a confession." (Muslim 17:4194) Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: 'Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has
passed, people may say, "We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death)
in the Holy Book," and consequently they may go astray by leaving an
obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of
Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he
is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or
confession." Sufyan added, "I have memorized this narration in this
way." 'Umar added, "Surely Allah's Apostle carried out the penalty of
Rajam, and so did we after him." - Sahih al-Bukhari, 8:82:816, Sahih Muslim, 17:4194 According to a strong tradition (found in Sunan ibn Majah, Book of Nikah,
Hadith no. 1934), Aisha also recalled the verse that
prescribed the death penalty, rajm, for adulterers. It was written on a palm leaf
that was in her home following Muhammad's death, that apparently, according to Aisha, got eaten by a goat. Apparently this verse did not make it into the final collection of the qur'an that was put together, though both Aisha and Umar were aware of its existence, and aware of the fact that Muhammad put it into practice himself. No matter how you look at it... qur'an, hadith of Muhammad, or the recordings of Muhammad's enacted punishments... it is not the same as Yshwe taught. asalaam and blessings to you, Caringheart Edited by Caringheart - 09 December 2015 at 9:52pm |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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AhmadJoyia
Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647 |
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AhmadJoyia
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Though I am not very fond of discussing things out of anonymous books, however, for this particular passage only, I can put my two coins into it: 1. First of all, I don't know who is Yshwe? Is he Jesus PBUH or someone else or same personality but with some other status? This is because I did not find it in English translated Bible that I have. 2. With this passage, what should I conclude about the Adultery in Christianity? Is it no more sinful? But if it is sinful, then what is its punishment? Is it no more stoning to death? Or it is totally abolished? Your allusion that it is no more sinful, is not supported by your own text that you have quoted. Here are my arguments with the evidence from your own bible. (a) Jesus said he came not to change the law but to fulfill it. Hence, total abolition of any law, and not just this one, is contrary to his own statement. (b) In this passage, all we know is that Jesus took an exception in forgiving this lady, but did remind her not to do the adultery again by saying go, and sin no more This is only possible if Jesus still considered adultery to be sinful. |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Greetings AhmadJoyia, Yes, I have come to the habit of rendering the name of the Messiah as it would have been rendered in His own time, and in His own language... Yshwe... to the best of my understanding. It seems to me that Yshwe(known as Jesus) was teaching that no human being has the right to punish another human being for their personal sins, since we are all sinful beings. Yshwe made a point of teaching that we are all sinful, as His Disciple John tells us; 'if any claims not to have sin, he is a liar, and deceives himself' Here is what I consider a good exposition on the subject: In saying, �Go and sin no more,� Jesus was not speaking of sinless perfection. He was warning against a return to sinful lifestyle choices. His words both extended mercy and demanded holiness. Jesus was always the perfect balance of �grace and truth� (John 1:14). With forgiveness comes the expectation that we will not continue in the same path of rebelliousness. Those who know God�s love will naturally want to obey Him (John 14:15). Yshwe fulfills the law in that, 'He' himself, is the forgiveness for sins... what was He always telling people when He healed them? He said to them, 'your sins are forgiven'.... this was to make the point... God has the power to forgive sins, and by turning to God and from sinful ways we are healed instead of human punishment, we are afforded Divine forgiveness, healing from our wicked ways. It is this mercy and grace... this depth of forgiveness... one man laying down His life for us... that changes us at the very depth of our being and leads us from sinfulness when we acknowledge the sacrifice that was made for our salvation. We are led to Love(which is God) ... for, 'we love because He first loved us', and 'there is no greater love than this, than a man lay down his life for another'. (1 John 4, John 15) This is the 'new thing' God promised in Isaiah 43; 19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? asalaam and blessings, Caringheart Edited by Caringheart - 12 December 2015 at 10:33am |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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