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Reason why there are no homosexuals inIsl |
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Gulliver 
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Joined: 12 September 2008 Status: Offline Points: 621 |
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 Posted: 29 March 2009 at 3:28am |
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And another thing Shasta. I know you well enough, and all others here to KNOW that none of you know all there is to know about the 'dictates' of your respective denominations/religions. None of you KNOW God/Allah. There are so many points of contention on hadiths, sunna and interpretations of Qu'ranic verses. There is also research being done on those verses you all love to use to judge and condemn other people, and then wonder why they 'call' you 'names'. The real contexts of those particular verses. "Personally, I have no problems with homosexuals. I believe that Allah will judge them as He judges all of us. " Religious people say this ALL the time, and are so blinded with their own ingrained prejudice they cannot see how totally and utterly offensive it is to the persons they wish to hear it being said. It's a wonder they don't come back and whack you over the head with it. Come off it. LOL 'I have NO problem' - and in the next part of the sentence you speak of 'judgement'. You are fooling no one but yourself here Shasta. You are certainly not fooling Allah. In that simple yet complex statement is the essence of the 'problem' - why you do certainly DO have a problem with homosexuals, and they throw it back at you. If you cannot see this, then I seriously recommend forty years in the desert contemplating it. I know, and can understand what you people are trying to say about YOURSELVES here, and make no mistake, you speak only on your own behalf - being mere mortals, as we all are. I'd just ask that you THINK about HOW you present information to others. Especially those with more love and compassion in their hearts than any of you may ever have. How do less loving people teach the more loving, how to love ? When any of you can answer this - get back to me. Otherwise I really don't want to hear it. Someone else said, "Love the sinner, not the sin". Forget about the 'sin' of 'homosexuality' for a mo. Let's talk about your sin Shasta. or Aske or Saladin's. I've talked to the lads again and we're all fine - I hope :-) OH - and MY sin - RAGE ;-) LOL . Whatever the 'sin' we are guilty of - and we all have our secrets, how do we assist a person to stop sinning ? For me, my own take on 'sin'. It's an act of love less ness. We act outside of 'God'. We do something that is harmful to our self, an other and so 'God' - the Great Good. We must put love back where it's been lost in the first instance. How do we do that - with ANYONE - any vile, filthy horrible sinner ? How does anyone love another in such a way that they 'see' their 'sin' is harming them as a person, their relationship/s with other people, and so with God/Allah ? And that does NOT mean God/Allah is the last to be worshipped/loved here at all. You will all admit how many horrible vile filth sinning people there are in this world, most of whom want nothing to do with 'religion' ? WHY ? Those are the questions I'd like the answers to. How to bring the Love of God/Allah to the 'sinners' of the world - not the self righteous. The ones lost from love of self, other and God/Allah. Sorry - ramblin' a bit. Anyway - sorry for my outburst. It's been a very stressful and painful time and I really would not deliberately hurt a living soul. It's easy to lash out online - cause you forget there are real people on the other side and it can all be so annoymous. Does not excuse bad behaviour. So again, I apologise. God bless us, every one and all, for ever and ever - Ameen :-) And I really AM DELIGHTED about the 'new' Muslim :-) Well done you !! I might visit you there one day for sure. Maybe by then I'll have calmed down sufficiently to become a Muslim too ;-) lol Now - any vetinary surgeons here ?? I need a horse sedative !! :-) |
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Gulliver
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Joined: 12 September 2008 Status: Offline Points: 621 |
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Posted: 29 March 2009 at 3:45am |
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This is such a deep issue for any 'religion'. On another thread yesterday someone was talking about young people - Muslims and growing rates of drug abuse. It all ties into the same thing. Abusing drugs. Why does anyone do this. How do you teach someone that abusing drugs is 'sin'ful - in that is harms their self, others and God/Allah. "Seek God with all your heart, mind, body and soul." "Love you neighbour as you love your self." These are the keys. How do WE teach anyone how to love self, when we have not mastered it for ourselves. LOVE THE SINNER. Maybe we should leave this discussion till we have all gone to see the Wizard, the wonderful Wizard of Oz. Had our hearts of stone pulverised, given 'hearts of flesh' - learned the meaning of Compassion and Mercy - and how to heal hearts with Al- Wadud - Allah's LOVING kindness. Rite - that's my rambling over. It all sounds so very easy - but is the hardest thing is the world it seems to me. Dunno why am even bothering with this. I won't get answers here. The 'religious' of the world are the cause of the problem - not the answer to it. That's a harsh reality the religious need to face, in my humble opinion. |
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Nazarene
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Male Joined: 05 September 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 298 |
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Posted: 29 March 2009 at 4:26am |
this is a good place for for a rant! a good place to ramble on and a good place to vent.
your comments bring a welcomed view. to look within ourselves at things we do not wish to see at times. to face the image we have made.
if you wish to use this forum to so i'll listen.
peace
leland
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love for all conquers all
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Gulliver
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Joined: 12 September 2008 Status: Offline Points: 621 |
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Posted: 29 March 2009 at 4:59am |
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Thank you Leland. If anyone opens the final 'door' for me - it will be you, or someone very like you. A true disciple of the Merciful, Compassionate, Loving Creator - Allah/God. By their fruits you shall know them. My ONLY desire is to bring the love of God to others - especially those 'lost' in their respective 'hells' in this world. Cause it is that very love which will be their deliverance. I have known it in my own life and seen it in others. If it seems like I rant and rave at people or their faith or religion. That is not what I intend. It's what is causing, creating suffering for others, alienating them from their Creator, and doing whatever it takes to 'help' them re establish that connection, IF they wish to. And in my experience MANY MANY people want to have a belief in a Good and Loving God - even when it seems they are in 'hell' in this world - especially at such times. And 'religion' itself is most often the cause of them falling away in the beginning. How it was taught, passed on, shoved down their throats. I was talking to a friend last week about this. He tells me that in Islam - Allah is not Love. I said I begged to differ. He needed to read the Qu'ran again. He has this impression, as do many Christians, that to speak of the Love of God is like giving people a pass to do whatever they like without consequence, when the exact opposite is the truth. Fear will never command self less ness. Only Love has the power to inspire a soul to true self less love - the kind of love that inspires others to want to know about the love of God/Allah. It's not rocket science. This is exhausting. Catch yas later. God bless you Leland and thanks again. You are an inspiration, and I mean it. And I really was overjoyed when you gave me your news yesterday :-) Pity I then came in here and went off on one. LOL ;-) |
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Shasta'sAunt
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Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
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Posted: 29 March 2009 at 7:42pm |
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Gulliver:
I really don't care if someone is a homosexual, an adulterer, a liar, a saint, it is not up to me to judge. It is up to God, and that is exactly what I meant when I wrote what I wrote.
I have too many of my own sins and problems to worry about to be judging others and it certainly isn't my place anyway. Only God can judge us and He will according to His Will. So, if you are looking for moral outrage from me you are barking up the wrong tree my friend.
BUT, I cannot say that any of the montheistic religions condone homosexuality because they don't. And as a Muslim I cannot condone activity that God has said is wrong, however, not condoning something and judging someone are two completely different things.
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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
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Saladin
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Male Joined: 04 September 2007 Location: Sri Lanka Status: Offline Points: 575 |
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Posted: 29 March 2009 at 7:48pm |
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Gulliver,
Arent you being way too judgemental of those you accuse of being judgemental? No one has a problem with anyone as long as anyone dont bother no one. And its true, God judges everyone equally justly. LOVE THE SINNER, HATE THE SIN. I wonder how many could hate the holocaust and yet love the Nazis. |
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'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'
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Gulliver
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Posted: 30 March 2009 at 2:45am |
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- Edited by Gulliver - 30 March 2009 at 1:14pm |
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Gulliver
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Posted: 30 March 2009 at 3:05am |
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Well I will only state that I do not in any way equate sexual orientation with the 'sin's you people speak of. It is not a 'sin'. And to suggest it is, is the worst insult to the dignity of a human person. Ask them. And if that is TRULY what your religious texts teach - then they are the things that deserve chucking into the deepest pits of hell. It all begins and ends with the interpretations of those texts, doesn't it. Maybe that's why the Native American broke away - became the 'lost' tribe of Israel. Shasta, the very thought of barking up your tree would be enough to send me into a coma from which I would never recover. ;-) lol !!! ;-) Sorry. Trust me, I am not looking moral outrage or anything else. Just having a nice friendly little discussion here :-) This is the way of the Irish. All hair n' nails and then sitting down for a good bevvy and hearty laugh. Sal seems to be saying now, "Live and let live," which is not the impression I had before. Sorry if I misunderstood Sal. It's difficult to know what you mean, especially when you speak of gays, nazis and holocausts in a similar context. Shame on you. SLAP ! Religious indoctrination had the nazis too, as well as their hatred of the Jews, specifically identify homosexuals for murder - sent off in their own trains to the 'death camps'. To Shasta and Saladin. You say that God judges. Fair enough, I accept this. If Islam became the world religion. And shar'ia law, the law of the world, God forbid. Would you approve of the stoning to death of adulterers ? The hanging of gay teenagers, as was done relatively recently in Saudi, public lashings, chopping hands off, beheadings etc ? I know similar things are recommended in the bible - OT etc. I am not meaning this to sound anti Islam. I have defended what is good in this religion to a LOT of people and still do. Why perhaps this is an area I need to get clearer on. Especially when those who do suffer because of these things, ask me certain questions that may be core to their survival. I wish to God in Heaven this were just some intellectual bullshitty confabulation. But it is soooooooo much more folks. I know it gets a tad heated. But it's one of those hot potato things. Sal, I wouldn't really drop a nuke on your head. I'd just get a big crow to fly over and s''t on it. LOL ;-) There is great good in religion. But there is also the potential for great evil. Just thinking about the Jewish holocaust. The part 'religion' played in all of that. Can we have it both ways. The good of religion without the bad. This entire conversation has left me doubting that possibility. The only other one being - get rid of religion all together and I can well understand why many people want that now too. Later God bless Edited by Gulliver - 30 March 2009 at 3:50am |
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Gulliver wrote: