Reason why there are no homosexuals inIsl

Jamal Morelli wrote: Doo-bop wrote: ]Clever answer, but not good enough.  The question was "does he truly follow Islam?" not "does he represent the world's Muslim population?"   Also, are you trying to make out that the article in the Independent proves that he is misrepresenting Islam? Believer's clever question was (exactly) "Is this a man true follower of Islam?" in relation to homosexuals receiving the death penalty by stoning. The answer is no. Believer didn't ask "does he truly follow Islam"? But if he did, the answer would be no. One can more easily see how one might read "true follower" as meaning representative rather than "truly follow". Does he think he is truly following Islam? Yes. Now, is Morocco a Muslim country, with widespread shari�a courts? Yes. Is Britain a Muslim country run by sharia laws? No. How about Welling, birthplace to the "preacher of hate", is it a sharia run Muslim district in the London Borough of Bexley? No. Now, does Muslim Morocco, with it's sharia courts, have the death penalty for homosexuals? No. In fact, the last time the death penalty was used was 1993 for a very crooked police commissioner. Is "the preacher of hate" being disavowed by a part of the Muslim population as detailed in the Independent article? Yes. Aren't all Muslims welcome in mosques? Yes. Then, is he being openly rejected by a popular Muslim leader? Yes. Don't I want homosexuals to be hurt in any way? No. Am I Muslim? Yes. Does anyone in my large Muslim family want to see homosexuals receive the death penalty, public lashings, humiliation, etc.? No.

Edited by Gulliver - 08 April 2009 at 9:59am

Doo-bop wrote: The question was "does he truly follow Islam?

Answered.   But when answered....

Doo-bop wrote: This is irrelevant. We are not interested in what muslims in Britain or Morocco do.

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The thread had it's genesis specific to a "preacher of hate" from the UK recommending stoning deaths to homosexuals.   But now...

Doo-bop wrote: � We are interested in getting to the bottom of what Islam orders about this issue.� The mere fact that Morocco, an overwhelmingly muslim-majority country, �does not execute homosexuals, does not, of itself, mean that Islam does not call for their execution

Anyone following the thread can go back and see:
You said you wanted to know about one particular man being a true follower of Islam (or truly following, whatever).
You seemed quite clear and insistent you wanted a simple answer to that, adopting a nagging tone about the simple answer you were seeking.
Well, it was answered: No.

So, having your answer, you've abandoned Believer's original question of whether a particular person was a true follower....
and now "we" are interested in "getting to the bottom" of what "Islam" calls for regarding homosexuals.

Simply, Islam does not call for the deaths of homosexuals by stoning.

More details:
You will find no absolutely universal answers to questions of Islamic law, since there are four major different schools of Islamic jurisprudence which evolved from the Quran, hadith, sunna, etc. and we have no Pope to chew our moral dilemmas and then spoon-feed them back for us from Ecumenical Councils. No matter what any Shiekh says: The doors of Ijtihad are re-opened every generation, no matter who wants them shut.

For example, Irshad Manji is "a Muslim voice of reform" who sees a place for homosexuality within Islam.     

Khaleel Mohammed, an imam and professor of Islam at San Diego State University, wrote in his foreword to Manji's book that "Irshad wants us to do what our Holy Book wants us to do: end the tribal posturing, open our eyes, and stand up to oppression, even if it's rationalized by our vaunted imams."

Reasons given by Muslims condemning the executions include: the fact that some legal schools (e.g. Hanafi) regard it as unjustified; the argument that the death penalty is not specified for it in the Qur'an...

Now, she doesn't speak for "Islam" any more than the UK's "preacher of hate" - but they are both operating in the milieu of Islam.   

Again, especially for you, Doo-bop -
No, "Islam does not call for their execution"




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Doo-bop wrote: What a hotch-potch of utter confusion! One says this, another says that.

Edited by Jamal Morelli - 08 April 2009 at 11:15am

Every human society and social system has to have some rule of law, and if we look around they do. Man made systems tend to flex and change those laws as they do. All devine based laws don't go through trial and error. We see that Quran and what we have left with of the older revelations suggest very clear punishments for crimes, including homosexuality. Now we can change our view about it, but if we believe in those scriptures we must live by them or trade them for something that is pleasing to our eyes, until we return to the one who has given us those rules to live by. If He has said to punish those who were involve in such practices, he will punish them, no neighborly love will avail anything, except forgiveness from God for who repent and guard themselves from such deads.

Edited by honeto - 08 April 2009 at 4:04pm