Islamic values and Western 'culture'

Peace everyone and a happy Friday to you (as I hear a local muzhadeen fiddling with his microphone, preparing for the fajr adhan....)

candid_new wrote: Jamal Morelli wrote: Salaam Here is my two dirhams on the subj: Western values to me worth exporting: Green politics, better universities, focus on literacy, freedom to criticize one's own leaders, some shot at health care for the elderly, the orphans, the homeless; i.e, here in Morocco - if you ain't got the dosh or the connections, you are pretty much screwed, short of individual contributions (zakat) - compare that to the beauty of the NHS! Developing countries cannot afford Green technology because it is currently too expensive. And it's pointless to have 'better' universities when the overwhelming majority of children don't even have access to primary education. Only the elites can access higher education, who, anyway, fly off to entertain foreign hosts instead of serving their country. Therefore, poorer countries should focus on primary education instead of higher education. Besides, I am surprised you didn't include democracy in the list.

Green politics and green technology aren't the same thing.
"Supporters of Green politics, called Greens, share many ideas with the ecology, conservation, environmental, feminist, and peace movements. In addition to democracy and ecological issues, green politics is concerned with civil liberties, social justice and nonviolence...Green politics also encourages political action on the individual level, such as ethical consumerism..." Boycotting the slow rise of the Marjane (our Wal-Marts) in support of our ancient markets would be a decent example of green politics here.

Your addition of the importance of primary schooling is a critical one. But the comments about the "pointless" addition of universities don't apply to this Muslim country, at least; since Morocco has an available, satisfactory primary education system in place.   A major problem (being violently protested in Rabat as we speak) is the brain drain leading to educated people to escape to the west for their university education.

Regarding primary schooling: Keeping them in school is the biggest problem; dropouts at ten and eleven. And so, a needed culture of literacy like the UK and the US enjoy.

Including democracy...? real democracy? that would be redundant for me to have included, since Green politics is informed by participatory democracy; "emphasizing local, grassroots-level political activity and decision-making."

Regarding the kind of democracy that America enjoys today, I wouldn't offer it to a dog. It seems to consist of voting in to power leaders whose well-being and economic health will depend on coddling undemocratic and oppressive fascist regimes throughout the world as well as relying heavily on destroying democracies in the countries it's survival depends on.

candid_new wrote: Jamal, when was primary education made free in Morocco?

I am not aware of a time it wasn't, though I can ask about.

Primary school (arabic: mteedahee) - about a 15 dollar entry cost, then free.

Secondary school (ar: adaddee) -about a twenty dollar entry cost, then free.

candid_new wrote: general population which don't have access to primary education can in no way take advantage of higher education without primary education

Well said. And if that was the problem here, it would be an important point to consider. But one of the main problems to tackle is the cost of what it is worth to a family to keep their kid in school compared to the worth of having them take a job. There are other problems as well concerning the quality, but that is another road of discussion.

candid_new wrote: Concentration of resources on higher education clearly indicates state's intent on safeguarding the monopoly of elites on education

At least over here, there is very little of this concentration of resources on higher education.   Ifrane, Rabat, not much else - but generally everyone who can flee, does. Blows the idea that the educated elites are a monopoly, since they usually leave for good; hence, the hot topic of brain drain.

On the contrary, the Moroccan government's intent to promote it's literacy movement is a very real thing here; our sorely needed inclusion in the EU has been affected by the amount of illiteracy in the population.

candid_new wrote: This is usually true for states which are ruled by authoritarian regimes that takes great pleasure in licking the boots of foreign powers who, in turn, wants to keep the country backward and control it with its native 'elite' a** lickers.

It's interesting to consider the above in the light of the former POTUS having his female lapdog lick Olmert's boots while he gloated over this power during the Gaza ghetto bombing.     

candid_new wrote: On the contrary, the Moroccan government's intent to promote it's literacy movement is a very real thing here; our sorely needed inclusion in the EU has been affected by the amount of illiteracy in the population. You seriously believe EU will let in a despotic monarchy , that too an Arab one! The monarchy has very little popular support. It is fully dependent on its foreign clientele for survival. It's focus will always be on entertaining its foreign clientele rather than welfare of its subjects.

Morocco submitted an application to join the EU (then EEC) in July 1987, but it was rejected by the European Council later in the year on the grounds that it "did not consider Morocco a European country". Although there are factors such as the developing economy or unresolved border issues with several of its neighbours and the occupation of Western Sahara, a European Union Association Agreement similar to that applied to Tunisia and Algeria is implemented between Morocco and the EU. The Moroccan government argues that a substantial amount of its territory is already part of the European Union, specifically Spanish enclaves in Northern Africa that Morocco says is occupied territory.

"In 2006 EU commissioner for external relations, Benita Ferrero-Waldner declared that "we [EU] already have a very, very close relationship with Morocco, and we're studying giving them even more advanced status."

 

Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 13 March 2009 at 2:38pm

I think also that without 'higher' education people cannot move forward both scientifically and technically. Knowledge of both is moving at a high,rapid rate. Also this knowledge, through the grace of Allah, can help solve many problems, especially with the environment. I saw a building today in the US completely powered by wind, and that is in DC region.

You need to have both, general education and specialized.. like for instance medicine. Not everyone is meant to go to higher education. That is fine. But this knowledge is critical.