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honeto 
Senior Member
Male
Islam
Joined: 20 March 2008
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2487
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 Posted: 24 June 2008 at 6:20pm |
Robin,
you insist; "This does not mean, however, that the Messiah�s name would actually be Immanuel.
Now if we look at the quote, the words are more clear than that:
It says: "and shall call his name Immanuel."
Hasan
Edited by honeto - 24 June 2008 at 6:24pm
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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robin
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 595
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Posted: 25 June 2008 at 12:22am |
 honeto wrote:
Robin,
you insist; "This does not mean, however, that the Messiah�s name would actually be Immanuel.
Now if we look at the quote, the words are more clear than that:
It says: "and shall call his name Immanuel."
Hasan |
Your lack of Bible knowledge is showing again Hasan!
Jesus Christ in the Bible has about a 120 differing titles:-
The Word
The Lamb
Shilo
Saviour
The Lord
First & Last
Michael
Rabbi
Lord of lords
King of kings
Son of God
Son of Man
Abbadon
Apollyon
Prince of peace
The Twig
The Shepherd
The Loin of the tribe of Judea
The Leader
The Judge
Angel of the abyss
The Seed
Comander etc. etc.
to name but a few!
Edited by robin - 25 June 2008 at 12:25am
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honeto
Senior Member
Male
Islam
Joined: 20 March 2008
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2487
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Posted: 25 June 2008 at 6:20pm |
Robin,
I know when things are made clear and make sense, one way to deny them is to accuse me of having less knowledge??
Read, it does not say titles. It says HIS NAME , NAME IMMANUAL.
Let me repeat, it does not say his title will be. Read it says his name, Immanual.
Hasan
Edited by honeto - 25 June 2008 at 6:25pm
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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robin
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 595
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Posted: 26 June 2008 at 1:03am |
honeto wrote:
Robin,
I know when things are made clear and make sense, one way to deny them is to accuse me of having less knowledge??
Read, it does not say titles. It says HIS NAME , NAME IMMANUAL.
Let me repeat, it does not say his title will be. Read it says his name, Immanual.
Hasan |
Face facts Hasan; lack of knowledge leads to misunderstandings for anyone:-
Proverbs 1:5
A wise person will listen and take in more instruction, and a man of understanding is the one who acquires skillful direction,
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believer
Guest Group
Joined: 08 January 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1397
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Posted: 26 June 2008 at 2:33pm |
name  /neɪm/ - [neym] - noun, verb, named, nam�ing, adjective
�noun
| 1. |
a word or a combination of words by which a person, place, or thing, a body or class, or any object of thought is designated, called, or known. |
| 2. |
mere designation, as distinguished from fact: He was a king in name only. |
| 3. |
an appellation, title, or epithet, applied descriptively, in honor, abuse, etc. |
| 4. |
a reputation of a particular kind given by common opinion: to protect one's good name. |
| 5. |
a distinguished, famous, or great reputation; fame: to make a name for oneself. |
| 6. |
a widely known or famous person; celebrity: She's a name in show business. |
| 7. |
an unpleasant or derogatory appellation or expression: Don't call your brother names! Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me. |
| 8. |
a personal or family name as exercising influence or bringing distinction: With that name they can get a loan at any bank in town. |
| 9. |
a body of persons grouped under one name, as a family or clan. |
| 10. |
the verbal or other symbolic representation of a thing, event, property, relation, or concept. |
| 11. |
(initial capital letter) a symbol or vehicle of divinity: to take the Name in vain; the power of the Name. | �verb (used with object)
| 12. |
to give a name to: to name a baby. |
| 13. |
to accuse: He was named as the thief. |
| 14. |
to call by an epithet: They named her speedy. |
| 15. |
to identify, specify, or mention by name: Three persons were named in the report. |
| 16. |
to designate for some duty or office; nominate or appoint: I have named you for the position. |
| 17. |
to specify; suggest: Name a price. |
| 18. |
to give the name of: Can you name the capital of Ohio? |
| 20. |
British. (in the House of Commons) to cite (a member) for contempt. | �adjective
| 21. |
famous; widely known: a name author. |
| 22. |
designed for or carrying a name. |
| 23. |
giving its name or title to a collection or anthology containing it: the name piece. |
Edited by believer - 26 June 2008 at 2:34pm
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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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robin
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 595
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Posted: 27 June 2008 at 12:53am |
honeto wrote:
Robin,
I know when things are made clear and make sense, one way to deny them is to accuse me of having less knowledge??
Read, it does not say titles. It says HIS NAME , NAME IMMANUAL.
Let me repeat, it does not say his title will be. Read it says his name, Immanual.
Hasan |
Hasan please explain the following about Jesus:-
Isaiah 9:6-7
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. 7 To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it firmly and to sustain it by means of justice and by means of righteousness, from now on and to time indefinite. The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this.
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honeto
Senior Member
Male
Islam
Joined: 20 March 2008
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2487
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Posted: 27 June 2008 at 5:58pm |
Robin,
two wrongs don't make one right? or do they?
First your quote does not answers my quote, it actually makes stronger my point that Bible contradicts, for sure.
Second your quote is a misquote form the Jewish Bible from where it was borrowed by Christians.
Here is your quote:
Isaiah 9:6
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Now here is the same verse as it appear in Jewish Bible, remember that where the OT came into the Christian Bible. Note how the words are twisted by Christians to mean completely different notion.
Now lets see this quote from where it was borrowed and altered to fit the Christian agenda, yet it failed by messing up more (here is a rare oppertunity to see me cut and paste):
ה כִּי-יֶלֶד יֻלַּד-לָנוּ, בֵּן נִתַּן-לָנוּ, וַתְּהִי הַמִּשְׂרָה, עַל-שִׁכְמוֹ; וַיִּקְרָא שְׁמוֹ פֶּלֶא יוֹעֵץ, אֵל גִּבּוֹר, אֲבִי-עַד, שַׂר-שָׁלוֹם.
5. For a child has been born to us (note the tense used), a son given to us (note the tense used), and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace."
Beside the alteration to its meanings by Christians, I don't see anything that relates this quote to Jesus, as it was (suppose to have been) written way before Christ. Rather it is refers to David (pbuh) as the verse that follows suggests: 6 That the government may be increased, and of peace there be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it through justice and through righteousness from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts doth perform this.
And see the tense used in this translation does not reflect future, the Christ as wrongfully suggested.
So there you have it folks, a good try by Robin but sorry a wrong one, again. Like I have said one wrong only leads to more and more wrongs only, unless be bravely admitted as what it is, a wrong.
Hasan
Edited by honeto - 27 June 2008 at 6:03pm
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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minuteman
Senior Member
Joined: 25 March 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1642
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Posted: 27 June 2008 at 9:27pm |
Dear Hasan, even though the church has altered the words of the original Jewish book, it still does not prove anything for Jesus. Please see:
Isaiah 9:6
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Jesus was never called wonderful. He never counselled (took opinion, Mushawarat) He was never mighty God, eternal father (he was not a father as they say he did not marry) He Jesus was not a prince of peace. He could not bring any peace in his own time.
This verse does not apply to Jesus. But checked carefully, it applies to our prophet Muhammad in all respects. I will post the details soon. It was our prophet who was told to take opinion. It is written in the Quran "Their (Muslims) matters are decided by mutual consultation". The prince of peace also applies to our prophet. The religion that he brought is called Peace (Islam).
Please note that there should be a comma between "Wonderful" and "Counseler". This is a trick of the church to omit the comma.
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