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Andalus 
Moderator Group
Joined: 12 October 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1187
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 Posted: 04 July 2008 at 4:58pm |
 robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
minuteman wrote:
Dear Hasan, even though the church has altered the words of the original Jewish book, it still does not prove anything for Jesus. Please see:
Isaiah 9:6
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Jesus was never called wonderful. He never counselled (took opinion, Mushawarat) He was never mighty God, eternal father (he was not a father as they say he did not marry) He Jesus was not a prince of peace. He could not bring any peace in his own time.
This verse does not apply to Jesus. But checked carefully, it applies to our prophet Muhammad in all respects. I will post the details soon. It was our prophet who was told to take opinion. It is written in the Quran "Their (Muslims) matters are decided by mutual consultation". The prince of peace also applies to our prophet. The religion that he brought is called Peace (Islam).
Please note that there should be a comma between "Wonderful" and "Counseler". This is a trick of the church to omit the comma. |
As Muhammad is not worshiper of Jehovah God, the God of Moses, who brings this about, it does not apply to him:-
Isaiah 9:7
"The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this." |
1) There is no such name "Jehova", so in actuallity, Moses did not worship "Jehova" either.
2) You "assert" Prophet Muhammad (saw) did not worship the same God as Moses. Please back up your "assertion". |
Exo 3:15 And God said to Moses again, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, Jehovah the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My title from generation to generation.
Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Pslam 83
16 Fill their faces with shame, that they may seek Your name, O Jehovah.
17 Let them be ashamed and troubled forever; yea, let them be put to shame, and lost;
18 so that men may know that Your name is JEHOVAH, that You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
Eze 38:23 So I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself. And I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am Jehovah.
God�s name, Jehovah, appears nearly 7,000 times in ancient Bible manuscripts.
Moses did worship Jehovah; Muhammed did not! I stand by my post! |
You are not quoting the actual "bible", there is no "J" in the Hebrew TANACH. Acccording to the Hebrew, there is no "Jehova", hence you are not worshipping the God of Moses, and Moses did not worship any God named "Jehova". Your almost "cult like" group tries to use the name game as a gimmick, but be aware, you will not find "Jehova" in the Tenakh. Solid scholarship, not gimmicks, is what will reveal the validity of a group.
Finally, you have not provided any argument that Porphet Muhammad (saw) did not worship the same God as Moses. If you are going to assert such strong opinions, we ask that you show what you bases is. Making bold claims and stating them as fact is not only juvenile, but no productive, and for the spirit of the forum, you are asked to provide more than just bold claims. |
The following are various Jewish Bible translations which all use the divine name in its Hebrew form amongst the English text at Exodus 6:3, they read as follows:-
"and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty but by My name vuvh I made Me not known to them" ftn. The ineffable name, read Adonai, which means, the Lord."-The Holy Scriptures according to the Masoretic text A New Translation The Jewish Publications Society of America.
"I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as El Shaddai, but I did not make myself known to them by My name vuvh. " ftn. This divine name is traditionally not pronounced; instead, Adonai, "(the) LORD," is regularly."-'TANAKH The Holy Scriptures' The New JPS Translation According to the Traditional Hebrew Text The Jewish Publications Society Philadelphia, New York, Jerusalem.
"and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name vuvh I made Me Not known to them." ftn. The ineffable name, read Adonai, which means, the Lord."-The Soncino Chumash. The Five Books of Moses with Haphtaroth.
some other rendering of the same verse from various English translations:-
"I was seen by Avraham, by Yitzhak, and by Yaakov as God Shaddai, but (by) my name YHWH I was not known to them."-The Five Books of Moses by Everatt Fox
"And I appeared vnto Abraham, vnto Isaac, and vuto Iacob, by the Name of God Almighty, but by my name IEHOVAH was I not knowen to them."-K.J.V. 1611 Edition
"And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them."-New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
"the Almighty God who appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob-though I did not revel my name, Jehovah, to them."-THE WAY The Catholic Living Bible
"To Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob I appeared as El Shaddai, but I did not make my name Yahweh known to them."-The New Jerusalem Bible
Spanish Bible: Ex 6:1-3:
"JEHOVA respondi� � Mois�s: Ahora ver�s lo que yo har� � Fara�n; porque con mano fuerte los ha de dejar ir; y con mano fuerte los ha de echar de su tierra. Habl� todav�a Dios � Mois�s, y d�jole: Yo soy JEHOVA;Y aparec� � Abraham, � Isaac y � Jacob bajo el nombre de Dios Omnipotente, mas en mi nombre JEHOVA no me notifiqu� � ellos."-'LA SANTA BIBLIA' by Reina-Valera, 1909
In the above texts is the name of Almighty God "Jehovah" as translated from the Hebrew Tetragrammaton, vuvh, YHWH which is a different word form than that of "LORD" (Heb. hbst) as in the Holy and inspired Scriptures that where penned to bring praise and Worshipers to Him, Almighty God!
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There is no single verse that contains the name "Jehova". Nothing you pasted above disagrees with me. The term "Jehova" is a 13th century Christian mistake. The Hebrew tetragrammaton "YHWH" does not translate to "Jehova". Jesus, nor Moses ever spoke that name. |
Yes if does, in Latin from which the English language is derived from; that is why Jesus is called Jesus insted of the Hebrew form "Yesuaha!"
Albert Barns notes on the Bible:-
Exo_6:2
I am the Lord ... - The meaning seems to be this: "I am Jehovah (Yahweh), and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as El Shaddai, but as to my name Jehovah, I was not made known to them." In other words, the full import of that name was not disclosed to them. See Exo_3:14.
GO TO:-
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I am guessing you did not actually read the link you provided, as it clearly states that "Jehova" is based upon early Christian ignorance and not on any clear rules of translation.
The verse Ex 3:14 further supports my initial statement, as the place where you erroneously place "Jehova", is actually the teragrammaton, which is simply YHWH, whch is the actual "translation" representing Hebrew letters. The fact that God did not reveal His unspoken name does not, in any way, even remotely imply that your sect "really" knows this name, which is nothing more than a mistranslation based upon befuddled scholarship. So once again, you have not shown what I have stated to be wrong, and once again, you provide "evidence" which actually supports what I am saying.
Your statement that English is derived from Latin, and Latin is Jehova for the tetragrammaton, so therefore Jehova is the sacred name is pure rubbish.
1) That Latin is the foundation for English: Non sequitur (meaning "does not follow regarding you attempt to conclude the Jehova is the sacred name.) Even if we accept what you say as true, that English is completely founded upon Latin, this still makes no difference and your conclusion does not follow, not because it is Latin, but because the term is based upon bad scholarship, and it in no way has anything to do wtih the tetragrammaton, which is represented by four Hebrew letters.
2) Jehova cannot be the "sacred name", because no where in the bible does God reveal it. In every place that the tetragrammaton exists, one will find Adonai, or "Elohim". Hence, there is no Latin word for the Hebrew name of God.
3) Moses did not speak Latin, nor did Jesus.
Edited by Andalus - 04 July 2008 at 5:01pm
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A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
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robin
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 595
|
Posted: 03 July 2008 at 10:34am |
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
minuteman wrote:
Dear Hasan, even though the church has altered the words of the original Jewish book, it still does not prove anything for Jesus. Please see:
Isaiah 9:6
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Jesus was never called wonderful. He never counselled (took opinion, Mushawarat) He was never mighty God, eternal father (he was not a father as they say he did not marry) He Jesus was not a prince of peace. He could not bring any peace in his own time.
This verse does not apply to Jesus. But checked carefully, it applies to our prophet Muhammad in all respects. I will post the details soon. It was our prophet who was told to take opinion. It is written in the Quran "Their (Muslims) matters are decided by mutual consultation". The prince of peace also applies to our prophet. The religion that he brought is called Peace (Islam).
Please note that there should be a comma between "Wonderful" and "Counseler". This is a trick of the church to omit the comma. |
As Muhammad is not worshiper of Jehovah God, the God of Moses, who brings this about, it does not apply to him:-
Isaiah 9:7
"The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this." |
1) There is no such name "Jehova", so in actuallity, Moses did not worship "Jehova" either.
2) You "assert" Prophet Muhammad (saw) did not worship the same God as Moses. Please back up your "assertion". |
Exo 3:15 And God said to Moses again, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, Jehovah the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My title from generation to generation.
Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Pslam 83
16 Fill their faces with shame, that they may seek Your name, O Jehovah.
17 Let them be ashamed and troubled forever; yea, let them be put to shame, and lost;
18 so that men may know that Your name is JEHOVAH, that You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
Eze 38:23 So I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself. And I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am Jehovah.
God�s name, Jehovah, appears nearly 7,000 times in ancient Bible manuscripts.
Moses did worship Jehovah; Muhammed did not! I stand by my post! |
You are not quoting the actual "bible", there is no "J" in the Hebrew TANACH. Acccording to the Hebrew, there is no "Jehova", hence you are not worshipping the God of Moses, and Moses did not worship any God named "Jehova". Your almost "cult like" group tries to use the name game as a gimmick, but be aware, you will not find "Jehova" in the Tenakh. Solid scholarship, not gimmicks, is what will reveal the validity of a group.
Finally, you have not provided any argument that Porphet Muhammad (saw) did not worship the same God as Moses. If you are going to assert such strong opinions, we ask that you show what you bases is. Making bold claims and stating them as fact is not only juvenile, but no productive, and for the spirit of the forum, you are asked to provide more than just bold claims. |
The following are various Jewish Bible translations which all use the divine name in its Hebrew form amongst the English text at Exodus 6:3, they read as follows:-
"and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty but by My name vuvh I made Me not known to them" ftn. The ineffable name, read Adonai, which means, the Lord."-The Holy Scriptures according to the Masoretic text A New Translation The Jewish Publications Society of America.
"I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as El Shaddai, but I did not make myself known to them by My name vuvh. " ftn. This divine name is traditionally not pronounced; instead, Adonai, "(the) LORD," is regularly."-'TANAKH The Holy Scriptures' The New JPS Translation According to the Traditional Hebrew Text The Jewish Publications Society Philadelphia, New York, Jerusalem.
"and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name vuvh I made Me Not known to them." ftn. The ineffable name, read Adonai, which means, the Lord."-The Soncino Chumash. The Five Books of Moses with Haphtaroth.
some other rendering of the same verse from various English translations:-
"I was seen by Avraham, by Yitzhak, and by Yaakov as God Shaddai, but (by) my name YHWH I was not known to them."-The Five Books of Moses by Everatt Fox
"And I appeared vnto Abraham, vnto Isaac, and vuto Iacob, by the Name of God Almighty, but by my name IEHOVAH was I not knowen to them."-K.J.V. 1611 Edition
"And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them."-New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
"the Almighty God who appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob-though I did not revel my name, Jehovah, to them."-THE WAY The Catholic Living Bible
"To Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob I appeared as El Shaddai, but I did not make my name Yahweh known to them."-The New Jerusalem Bible
Spanish Bible: Ex 6:1-3:
"JEHOVA respondi� � Mois�s: Ahora ver�s lo que yo har� � Fara�n; porque con mano fuerte los ha de dejar ir; y con mano fuerte los ha de echar de su tierra. Habl� todav�a Dios � Mois�s, y d�jole: Yo soy JEHOVA;Y aparec� � Abraham, � Isaac y � Jacob bajo el nombre de Dios Omnipotente, mas en mi nombre JEHOVA no me notifiqu� � ellos."-'LA SANTA BIBLIA' by Reina-Valera, 1909
In the above texts is the name of Almighty God "Jehovah" as translated from the Hebrew Tetragrammaton, vuvh, YHWH which is a different word form than that of "LORD" (Heb. hbst) as in the Holy and inspired Scriptures that where penned to bring praise and Worshipers to Him, Almighty God!
|
There is no single verse that contains the name "Jehova". Nothing you pasted above disagrees with me. The term "Jehova" is a 13th century Christian mistake. The Hebrew tetragrammaton "YHWH" does not translate to "Jehova". Jesus, nor Moses ever spoke that name. |
Yes if does, in Latin from which the English language is derived from; that is why Jesus is called Jesus insted of the Hebrew form "Yesuaha!"
Albert Barns notes on the Bible:-
Exo_6:2
I am the Lord ... - The meaning seems to be this: "I am Jehovah (Yahweh), and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as El Shaddai, but as to my name Jehovah, I was not made known to them." In other words, the full import of that name was not disclosed to them. See Exo_3:14.
GO TO:-
Edited by robin - 04 July 2008 at 3:35pm
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Andalus
Moderator Group
Joined: 12 October 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1187
|
Posted: 02 July 2008 at 9:40pm |
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
minuteman wrote:
Dear Hasan, even though the church has altered the words of the original Jewish book, it still does not prove anything for Jesus. Please see:
Isaiah 9:6
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Jesus was never called wonderful. He never counselled (took opinion, Mushawarat) He was never mighty God, eternal father (he was not a father as they say he did not marry) He Jesus was not a prince of peace. He could not bring any peace in his own time.
This verse does not apply to Jesus. But checked carefully, it applies to our prophet Muhammad in all respects. I will post the details soon. It was our prophet who was told to take opinion. It is written in the Quran "Their (Muslims) matters are decided by mutual consultation". The prince of peace also applies to our prophet. The religion that he brought is called Peace (Islam).
Please note that there should be a comma between "Wonderful" and "Counseler". This is a trick of the church to omit the comma. |
As Muhammad is not worshiper of Jehovah God, the God of Moses, who brings this about, it does not apply to him:-
Isaiah 9:7
"The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this." |
1) There is no such name "Jehova", so in actuallity, Moses did not worship "Jehova" either.
2) You "assert" Prophet Muhammad (saw) did not worship the same God as Moses. Please back up your "assertion". |
Exo 3:15 And God said to Moses again, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, Jehovah the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My title from generation to generation.
Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Pslam 83
16 Fill their faces with shame, that they may seek Your name, O Jehovah.
17 Let them be ashamed and troubled forever; yea, let them be put to shame, and lost;
18 so that men may know that Your name is JEHOVAH, that You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
Eze 38:23 So I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself. And I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am Jehovah.
God�s name, Jehovah, appears nearly 7,000 times in ancient Bible manuscripts.
Moses did worship Jehovah; Muhammed did not! I stand by my post! |
You are not quoting the actual "bible", there is no "J" in the Hebrew TANACH. Acccording to the Hebrew, there is no "Jehova", hence you are not worshipping the God of Moses, and Moses did not worship any God named "Jehova". Your almost "cult like" group tries to use the name game as a gimmick, but be aware, you will not find "Jehova" in the Tenakh. Solid scholarship, not gimmicks, is what will reveal the validity of a group.
Finally, you have not provided any argument that Porphet Muhammad (saw) did not worship the same God as Moses. If you are going to assert such strong opinions, we ask that you show what you bases is. Making bold claims and stating them as fact is not only juvenile, but no productive, and for the spirit of the forum, you are asked to provide more than just bold claims. |
The following are various Jewish Bible translations which all use the divine name in its Hebrew form amongst the English text at Exodus 6:3, they read as follows:-
"and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty but by My name vuvh I made Me not known to them" ftn. The ineffable name, read Adonai, which means, the Lord."-The Holy Scriptures according to the Masoretic text A New Translation The Jewish Publications Society of America.
"I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as El Shaddai, but I did not make myself known to them by My name vuvh. " ftn. This divine name is traditionally not pronounced; instead, Adonai, "(the) LORD," is regularly."-'TANAKH The Holy Scriptures' The New JPS Translation According to the Traditional Hebrew Text The Jewish Publications Society Philadelphia, New York, Jerusalem.
"and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name vuvh I made Me Not known to them." ftn. The ineffable name, read Adonai, which means, the Lord."-The Soncino Chumash. The Five Books of Moses with Haphtaroth.
some other rendering of the same verse from various English translations:-
"I was seen by Avraham, by Yitzhak, and by Yaakov as God Shaddai, but (by) my name YHWH I was not known to them."-The Five Books of Moses by Everatt Fox
"And I appeared vnto Abraham, vnto Isaac, and vuto Iacob, by the Name of God Almighty, but by my name IEHOVAH was I not knowen to them."-K.J.V. 1611 Edition
"And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them."-New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
"the Almighty God who appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob-though I did not revel my name, Jehovah, to them."-THE WAY The Catholic Living Bible
"To Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob I appeared as El Shaddai, but I did not make my name Yahweh known to them."-The New Jerusalem Bible
Spanish Bible: Ex 6:1-3:
"JEHOVA respondi� � Mois�s: Ahora ver�s lo que yo har� � Fara�n; porque con mano fuerte los ha de dejar ir; y con mano fuerte los ha de echar de su tierra. Habl� todav�a Dios � Mois�s, y d�jole: Yo soy JEHOVA;Y aparec� � Abraham, � Isaac y � Jacob bajo el nombre de Dios Omnipotente, mas en mi nombre JEHOVA no me notifiqu� � ellos."-'LA SANTA BIBLIA' by Reina-Valera, 1909
In the above texts is the name of Almighty God "Jehovah" as translated from the Hebrew Tetragrammaton, vuvh, YHWH which is a different word form than that of "LORD" (Heb. hbst) as in the Holy and inspired Scriptures that where penned to bring praise and Worshipers to Him, Almighty God!
|
There is no single verse that contains the name "Jehova". Nothing you pasted above disagrees with me. The term "Jehova" is a 13th century Christian mistake. The Hebrew tetragrammaton "YHWH" does not translate to "Jehova". Jesus, nor Moses ever spoke that name.
|
|
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
|
|
robin
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 595
|
Posted: 02 July 2008 at 1:16am |
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
minuteman wrote:
Dear Hasan, even though the church has altered the words of the original Jewish book, it still does not prove anything for Jesus. Please see:
Isaiah 9:6
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Jesus was never called wonderful. He never counselled (took opinion, Mushawarat) He was never mighty God, eternal father (he was not a father as they say he did not marry) He Jesus was not a prince of peace. He could not bring any peace in his own time.
This verse does not apply to Jesus. But checked carefully, it applies to our prophet Muhammad in all respects. I will post the details soon. It was our prophet who was told to take opinion. It is written in the Quran "Their (Muslims) matters are decided by mutual consultation". The prince of peace also applies to our prophet. The religion that he brought is called Peace (Islam).
Please note that there should be a comma between "Wonderful" and "Counseler". This is a trick of the church to omit the comma. |
As Muhammad is not worshiper of Jehovah God, the God of Moses, who brings this about, it does not apply to him:-
Isaiah 9:7
"The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this." |
1) There is no such name "Jehova", so in actuallity, Moses did not worship "Jehova" either.
2) You "assert" Prophet Muhammad (saw) did not worship the same God as Moses. Please back up your "assertion". |
Exo 3:15 And God said to Moses again, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, Jehovah the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My title from generation to generation.
Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Pslam 83
16 Fill their faces with shame, that they may seek Your name, O Jehovah.
17 Let them be ashamed and troubled forever; yea, let them be put to shame, and lost;
18 so that men may know that Your name is JEHOVAH, that You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
Eze 38:23 So I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself. And I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am Jehovah.
God�s name, Jehovah, appears nearly 7,000 times in ancient Bible manuscripts.
Moses did worship Jehovah; Muhammed did not! I stand by my post! |
You are not quoting the actual "bible", there is no "J" in the Hebrew TANACH. Acccording to the Hebrew, there is no "Jehova", hence you are not worshipping the God of Moses, and Moses did not worship any God named "Jehova". Your almost "cult like" group tries to use the name game as a gimmick, but be aware, you will not find "Jehova" in the Tenakh. Solid scholarship, not gimmicks, is what will reveal the validity of a group.
Finally, you have not provided any argument that Porphet Muhammad (saw) did not worship the same God as Moses. If you are going to assert such strong opinions, we ask that you show what you bases is. Making bold claims and stating them as fact is not only juvenile, but no productive, and for the spirit of the forum, you are asked to provide more than just bold claims. |
The following are various Jewish Bible translations which all use the divine name in its Hebrew form amongst the English text at Exodus 6:3, they read as follows:-
"and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty but by My name vuvh I made Me not known to them" ftn. The ineffable name, read Adonai, which means, the Lord."-The Holy Scriptures according to the Masoretic text A New Translation The Jewish Publications Society of America.
"I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as El Shaddai, but I did not make myself known to them by My name vuvh. " ftn. This divine name is traditionally not pronounced; instead, Adonai, "(the) LORD," is regularly."-'TANAKH The Holy Scriptures' The New JPS Translation According to the Traditional Hebrew Text The Jewish Publications Society Philadelphia, New York, Jerusalem.
"and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name vuvh I made Me Not known to them." ftn. The ineffable name, read Adonai, which means, the Lord."-The Soncino Chumash. The Five Books of Moses with Haphtaroth.
some other rendering of the same verse from various English translations:-
"I was seen by Avraham, by Yitzhak, and by Yaakov as God Shaddai, but (by) my name YHWH I was not known to them."-The Five Books of Moses by Everatt Fox
"And I appeared vnto Abraham, vnto Isaac, and vuto Iacob, by the Name of God Almighty, but by my name IEHOVAH was I not knowen to them."-K.J.V. 1611 Edition
"And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them."-New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
"the Almighty God who appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob-though I did not revel my name, Jehovah, to them."-THE WAY The Catholic Living Bible
"To Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob I appeared as El Shaddai, but I did not make my name Yahweh known to them."-The New Jerusalem Bible
Spanish Bible: Ex 6:1-3:
"JEHOVA respondi� � Mois�s: Ahora ver�s lo que yo har� � Fara�n; porque con mano fuerte los ha de dejar ir; y con mano fuerte los ha de echar de su tierra. Habl� todav�a Dios � Mois�s, y d�jole: Yo soy JEHOVA;Y aparec� � Abraham, � Isaac y � Jacob bajo el nombre de Dios Omnipotente, mas en mi nombre JEHOVA no me notifiqu� � ellos."-'LA SANTA BIBLIA' by Reina-Valera, 1909
In the above texts is the name of Almighty God "Jehovah" as translated from the Hebrew Tetragrammaton, vuvh, YHWH which is a different word form than that of "LORD" (Heb. hbst) as in the Holy and inspired Scriptures that where penned to bring praise and Worshipers to Him, Almighty God!
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Andalus
Moderator Group
Joined: 12 October 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1187
|
Posted: 01 July 2008 at 10:22pm |
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
minuteman wrote:
Dear Hasan, even though the church has altered the words of the original Jewish book, it still does not prove anything for Jesus. Please see:
Isaiah 9:6
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Jesus was never called wonderful. He never counselled (took opinion, Mushawarat) He was never mighty God, eternal father (he was not a father as they say he did not marry) He Jesus was not a prince of peace. He could not bring any peace in his own time.
This verse does not apply to Jesus. But checked carefully, it applies to our prophet Muhammad in all respects. I will post the details soon. It was our prophet who was told to take opinion. It is written in the Quran "Their (Muslims) matters are decided by mutual consultation". The prince of peace also applies to our prophet. The religion that he brought is called Peace (Islam).
Please note that there should be a comma between "Wonderful" and "Counseler". This is a trick of the church to omit the comma. |
As Muhammad is not worshiper of Jehovah God, the God of Moses, who brings this about, it does not apply to him:-
Isaiah 9:7
"The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this." |
1) There is no such name "Jehova", so in actuallity, Moses did not worship "Jehova" either.
2) You "assert" Prophet Muhammad (saw) did not worship the same God as Moses. Please back up your "assertion". |
Exo 3:15 And God said to Moses again, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, Jehovah the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My title from generation to generation.
Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Pslam 83
16 Fill their faces with shame, that they may seek Your name, O Jehovah.
17 Let them be ashamed and troubled forever; yea, let them be put to shame, and lost;
18 so that men may know that Your name is JEHOVAH, that You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
Eze 38:23 So I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself. And I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am Jehovah.
God�s name, Jehovah, appears nearly 7,000 times in ancient Bible manuscripts.
Moses did worship Jehovah; Muhammed did not! I stand by my post! |
You are not quoting the actual "bible", there is no "J" in the Hebrew TANACH. Acccording to the Hebrew, there is no "Jehova", hence you are not worshipping the God of Moses, and Moses did not worship any God named "Jehova". Your almost "cult like" group tries to use the name game as a gimmick, but be aware, you will not find "Jehova" in the Tenakh. Solid scholarship, not gimmicks, is what will reveal the validity of a group.
Finally, you have not provided any argument that Porphet Muhammad (saw) did not worship the same God as Moses. If you are going to assert such strong opinions, we ask that you show what you bases is. Making bold claims and stating them as fact is not only juvenile, but no productive, and for the spirit of the forum, you are asked to provide more than just bold claims.
Edited by Andalus - 01 July 2008 at 10:25pm
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A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
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robin
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 595
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Posted: 01 July 2008 at 2:24pm |
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
minuteman wrote:
Dear Hasan, even though the church has altered the words of the original Jewish book, it still does not prove anything for Jesus. Please see:
Isaiah 9:6
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Jesus was never called wonderful. He never counselled (took opinion, Mushawarat) He was never mighty God, eternal father (he was not a father as they say he did not marry) He Jesus was not a prince of peace. He could not bring any peace in his own time.
This verse does not apply to Jesus. But checked carefully, it applies to our prophet Muhammad in all respects. I will post the details soon. It was our prophet who was told to take opinion. It is written in the Quran "Their (Muslims) matters are decided by mutual consultation". The prince of peace also applies to our prophet. The religion that he brought is called Peace (Islam).
Please note that there should be a comma between "Wonderful" and "Counseler". This is a trick of the church to omit the comma. |
As Muhammad is not worshiper of Jehovah God, the God of Moses, who brings this about, it does not apply to him:-
Isaiah 9:7
"The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this." |
1) There is no such name "Jehova", so in actuallity, Moses did not worship "Jehova" either.
2) You "assert" Prophet Muhammad (saw) did not worship the same God as Moses. Please back up your "assertion". |
Exo 3:15 And God said to Moses again, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, Jehovah the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My title from generation to generation.
Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Pslam 83
16 Fill their faces with shame, that they may seek Your name, O Jehovah.
17 Let them be ashamed and troubled forever; yea, let them be put to shame, and lost;
18 so that men may know that Your name is JEHOVAH, that You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
Eze 38:23 So I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself. And I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am Jehovah.
God�s name, Jehovah, appears nearly 7,000 times in ancient Bible manuscripts.
Moses did worship Jehovah; Muhammed did not! I stand by my post!
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Andalus
Moderator Group
Joined: 12 October 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1187
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Posted: 30 June 2008 at 8:15pm |
robin wrote:
minuteman wrote:
Dear Hasan, even though the church has altered the words of the original Jewish book, it still does not prove anything for Jesus. Please see:
Isaiah 9:6
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Jesus was never called wonderful. He never counselled (took opinion, Mushawarat) He was never mighty God, eternal father (he was not a father as they say he did not marry) He Jesus was not a prince of peace. He could not bring any peace in his own time.
This verse does not apply to Jesus. But checked carefully, it applies to our prophet Muhammad in all respects. I will post the details soon. It was our prophet who was told to take opinion. It is written in the Quran "Their (Muslims) matters are decided by mutual consultation". The prince of peace also applies to our prophet. The religion that he brought is called Peace (Islam).
Please note that there should be a comma between "Wonderful" and "Counseler". This is a trick of the church to omit the comma. |
As Muhammad is not worshiper of Jehovah God, the God of Moses, who brings this about, it does not apply to him:-
Isaiah 9:7
"The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this." |
1) There is no such name "Jehova", so in actuallity, Moses did not worship "Jehova" either.
2) You "assert" Prophet Muhammad (saw) did not worship the same God as Moses. Please back up your "assertion".
Edited by Andalus - 30 June 2008 at 8:15pm
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|
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
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robin
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 595
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Posted: 30 June 2008 at 1:06am |
minuteman wrote:
Angel wrote:
Minuteman, it cannot be Muhammed because in the list of descriptions is "Mighty God" and "Eternal Father" Muhammed is not God ;-) |
For the time being I will explain only the one you have mentioned above. Please remember that the coming of our prophet was likened to the coming of the God himself. Even though he was not God at all. But his coming is like the coming of God. In that sense, he can be called the mighty God. More later.... hopefully. |
Thus we read in the Bible at John 1:1-2:
John 1:1-2
In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in [the] beginning with God.
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PROPHECIES IN THE BIBLE