Saudi women want end to driving ban

I stay at home, I don�t have children. And at the same time I am not a useless member of the community. I visit the sick, I help orphans, go shopping and do many things outside the home as well but with a Mahram (my husband, my brother or nephew) beside me or a Mahram to take me to my destination and pick me up later. Most importantly I saved my marriage.

Then you aren't staying home, you are contributing.  That's my whole point.  There are places where women are expected to stay home and not even contribute by going out and visiting the sick and poor.

As for traveling with a Mahram...I will point out that traveling around with a Mahram is no safer than staying home without one.  Both events are true stories.

I live in a good neighborhood.  I have a small little house that doesn't scream (we have HD TV).  I have nothing of value in my home and my cars are older and in moderate condition.  However, one morning, shortly after my husband left for work, someone tried to break into the house while I was still in it.  Luckily, my husband always locks the door behind him (leftovers from a bad neighborhood we once lived in) and so I was warned by the rattling of the door.  I screamed that I was going to call the police and the man ran away. 

Second story, true.  I have a Muslimah friend who told me this one when I expressed my exasperation at this thread.  She told me that when she was heavily pregnant with her third child she was a stay at home mother.  She was alone with her daughter 8 year old daughter and 3 year old son.  They lived in low income housing because her husband could not afford better.  One day she found herself surrounded by gang members bent on mischeif.  They were at both of the doors out of her apartment and at the window.  She had no phone and no way out.  She really lucked out.  Her family could have been seriously hurt

In reality, you are no safer at home alone than you are in the grocery store.  My point Alwardah is you cannot live life in fear.  If you live in fear of the world, then you are not enjoying the life God granted you. 

You think women leaving the home has caused men to go out of control.  I say men have been out of control since Cain slew Abel.  You look throughout the Bible and history and see nothing but men harming women.  No matter what the social status of women is at the time.  In the house or out of it.  Romans, Chinese, Babylon, Egypt, India. 

Men are the ones who need reigns, not women.  A woman is faithful, loyal and dedicated naturally.

Now, as for Saudi Arabia.  Do I believe that then giving women their rights is going to cause mass chaos?  You know, honestly YES!

This is why, (sorry for another story).  Growing up, I taught sunday school, had good parents and was a diligent student.  Exactly the same for my best friend.  However, there was one major difference between our parents.  Trust.  My parents trusted that I was taught well by them and that I would make the choices that were right.  I was allowed to get my drivers license right away.  I was allowed to go to social functions as long as I kept my parents appraised of where, when and who.  Before I could go on my own, my father often chaperoned the functions I was at, but I was allowed to go.  On the flip side, my friend wasn't allowed out of the house save horseback riding with me, and staying at my house on weekends.  She never got to go to school functions, even if my dad was chaperoning...(mind you she stayed at my house ever other weekend since we were 8 years old).  When she finally got her drivers license, she stuck out and did all sorts of things.  Her family was far stricter in their control of her.  So, she had boyfriends, drank, smoked and got into trouble.  I went to the movies, sometimes friends homes and generally stayed out of trouble.  I even went so far as to have my mother come get me from a birthday party when I found out there was alcohol brought by some of the guests. 

Now, here's the moral of the story...  I am happily married for 6.5 years.  I don't drink, smoke or do drugs.  My parents trusted me, because they taught me well and gave me the freedom to express those lessons.  Her parents never trusted her, they kept a leash on her until she went to college.  Then she really went wild.  Now, she's unmarried, with a son, she's a borderline alcoholic and thinks her life is done. 

I think that Saudi women will become like my friend.  Why?  Because their men have never trusted them.  They have never trusted that they will make the right choice.  Of course women will make the right choice...why do you think so many western women are converting to Islam?  Because they want to do the right things by God.  Meanwhile, I have personally witnessed girls from oppressive societies like India abandon all they were taught at the first sign of freedom.  They suddenly have choices and no life lessons to know what is right and wrong.  Then when they finally realize they've made the wrong choices, the unforgiving nature of their society tells them they are unclean and unforgivable.

Saudi society is not Islamic society.  They would like to think that, but they aren't.  True Islamic society is something like Spain during its Golden Era.  Freedoms of Religion, learning and thought. 

Also, in this time of the internet and communication I want to caution you on one other thing.  Scholars should have a verifiable education at a trusted Islamic University.  Anyone today can set up a website, claim to be a Sheik and start issuing fatwas based on their own interpretations.  Sunni, Shia, Salafi sheiks often don't even label their sites one way or another. 

The Quran is the road, the Hadith are the lines on the road that help you stay in your own lane.  The Sheiks are sign posts.  But signs can be wrong, confusing or broken.  Stick to the road...use the signs, use the lines...but trust only the pavement.

Intresting discussion.

Just to say that if we follow the lines of the road [Quran and sunnah}, then why will all these dilemmas crop up? Woman need to enjoy there freedom which is at its maximum. Instead of trying to cross those lines and expanding those limits.  You can create a beautiful  world being at  home itself. Woman in Islam is n't a robot at all when all her rights are entertained and she performs her duties. Anyways, shall not deviate the topic. I totally agree with the fatwa, sis Alwardah had provided us from islam-qa. Angela don't i agree with those points there?

Hayfa wrote: Angela, you are right about the safety factor. We are all less safe when we are alone. Crime is about opportunity as well as motive. That is why people break into homes with women alone and rape them. It is irritating as driving is a skill. They don't even say the women can drive with a mahram with them. So it is stricly about "control". If they cannot drive they have to "obey." This is treating women as though they are children. They cannot make decisions for themselves.

You know, I never even thought of the rule that a woman could drive with a mahram present.  When my husband was hurt, he could not drive for nearly 3 months.  I had to carry him up and down stairs to the bathroom.

I could not live the Islamic life that the fatwa posted says I have to.  I live in Utah.  My blood relatives live in Pennsylvania.  I am 2200 miles from my closest mahram other than my husband.  I couldn't use my brother in laws, they aren't mahram.  If I were to live in that kind of society, I would be locked up.  Maybe not out of cruelty, but out of sheer circumstance.  And I'm lucky, I have a husband.  What about widows, divorcees and sisters who have never married. 

I have not been safe in my own home alone, someone has to work so I can't be babysat 24 hours a day. Also, since I have no children, there's little for me to do at home.  We don't make a big mess.  Dishes and laundry take minutes.  Vacuuming once a week in my small home takes less than 30 minutes and most of that is moving furniture out of the way.  So, why shouldn't I work?

I'm getting my computer science degree.  I want to develop software after graduation.  I want to improve my community with volunteering at the food bank and becoming a mentor to a child who doesn't have one.

You cannot expect women to be so dependent on men that they cannot live their lives without one.  This is not what God wants, he doesn't want us to be slaves of circumstance and he certainly doesn't want us to sit at home miserable because there is no chaperon to take us to the library.  Idle hands serve the devil. 

Now, given all that, I'm not against women who CHOOSE to stay home because of their circumstances.  If you don't need to work or if you feel that you are so weak that you must have a guardian at all times, that's your choice.  What I am against is the forcing of this obedience.

Doing things for the sake of Allah is one thing, not doing anything because you're told you're only job is to be barefoot and pregnant is completely different. 

There were other parts of the fatwa that upset me.  The comment that boys were more deserving of cars...why?  Why does a woman having a car mean a boy cannot?  Are there not enough cars in the world?  That somehow a woman is more prone to sin when she is out alone.  She might be more prone to being a victim of violent crime, but certainly she's not less morally than a man. 

Why is it that a woman outside of the house without her mahram means she's a floosy?  And why is it okay for my teenage son to be out running around with his friends getting into innocent mischief, but if my teenage daughter left the house to go shopping with her friends, she's some how sinning? 

Why is it okay for my husband to go on LOOOOONG business trips where temptations to cheat abound?  But, I cannot according to scholars travel 88 miles without a chaperon, even if its to go see family? 

Is my staying home going to make a man less prone to cheat on his wife?  He's not getting anywhere with me.  Is my staying home going to make my husband less likely to cheat on me?  What if I can't trust him?  And if I never leave the house without a mahram because I want to please Allah, what happens if I have a husband who refuses to take me anywhere?  Or what happens if my child falls and I need to go to the hospital and my husband is at work?

And lastly....to Alwardah... I understand its a Hadith that a woman must get her husband's permission to go to mosque.  That frankly is wrong.  I refuse to have my relationship with God dictated to me by my husband.  If I want to pray with my sisters in Islam in a mosque, I never let my husband tell me I could not congregate with my fellow Muslims.  Frankly, that was probably said by the Prophet in the times of Persecution when it was dangerous to go to the Mosque without an escort.  Don't quote Hadith to me without context and time periods.  The time of the Prophet was very different from our time.  There were many years of the Prophet's life that it was dangerous to follow Islam and thus extra precautions were necessary.  However, it shouldn't be an excuse for limiting a woman from her access to a religious center. 

Church, Synagogue, Mosque, Temple... its more than just a place to pray.  Its also a place to learn, they are schools.  Its also a place to come together as one people in your love of the Almighty.  No man is going to keep me from loving, learning and sharing my faith.  I don't care if he is my husband, father or some guy down the street.  I am God's daughter, I have a right to be in his house.

As Salamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

My comment �Men work outside the home, women work inside the home - so simple.� in my last post was in bad taste.  There was no way I was implying that we don�t need female teachers, doctors, nurses etc.

Neither did the scholars in the fatawa I posted make such a claim.

This thread was about Saudi women asking to lift the ban on driving. The fatawa I post was by Saudi scholars explaining the reason why driving in their society will be a disaster quoting from the Glorious Qur'an and Hadith. Because the Fatawa did not agree with our way of life and our thinking we were offended by it. Shaikh ibn Baz (Rahimahullah) was the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia. He had more rights to decide what is right or wrong for his people then you and me. He did not issue the Fatawa for us but for his own community, the scholar who presented his view stated we should refer this matter to our own scholars. On the other hand, like most Fatawas it can also apply to all Muslim women where ever they live.

There is no scholar that I know of who does not encourage women to become doctors, teachers and taking up other worthwhile professions. But all such activities must comply with the teachings as laid down by the Shariah. No mixing of sexes etc.

Where there is a need the scholars don�t deprive a woman of her rights. If a woman cannot find a female doctor she can be examined by a male doctor. If there are no colleges for women to study medicine, she can go to a co-ed college or university as long as she is wearing proper Hijab and keeping contact with the male students to the minimum.

Islam is a beautiful religion and so easy to follow. We are the ones who are putting obstacles in our way and making things difficult for ourselves.

Driving is not specific to only women who are doctors, teachers, etc if the ban is lifted every women who wished to drive will drive. What is so wrong when a scholar who can foresee the Fitnah that will come to his society to try and prevent it by warning his people of the evil consequences?

Did not the Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam) warn us that Zina, drinking alcohol, dealing with interest, will be things that the Muslims will indulge in without shame towards the end of time. Don�t we see it happening today? What will be, will be? The scholars have a duty to warn us, the choice is ours to listen or ignore. Just as it is our choice to accept Islam fully or piece-meal or not at all.

May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala forgive us for our shortcomings and protect us from our own whims and desires. Ameen!

Wa Alaikum Salam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu