As Salamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

I am not sure if I can post this fatawa in the "Current Events" but since it is related here goes: -

Does the ruling on driving a car vary from one country to another?

Question:

Throughout the Muslim world we find that there are differences between one country and another, in manner of dress, customs and traditions. For example we see that in some countries our sisters wear niqaab, because they follow the fatwa that says that niqaab is obligatory, but that is not widespread in another country, and the opinion that they follow there is that niqaab is not obligatory, rather it is mustahabb. Similarly with regard to women driving cars, in some countries the shaykhs have declared it to be haraam because of the harms that would result if it were allowed, whilst in other countries it is a very ordinary thing for a woman to drive a car, and they have been doing so for decades.
 To what extent is there flexibility in rulings? Is what is happening correct, I mean is it right that something may be obligatory in one country and mustahabb in another?.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.  

The rulings of sharee�ah are of two types: 

1 � Those where the evidence of sharee�ah points to the ruling, regardless of various customs or what good or bad consequences may result. 

In this case the ruling is fixed and does not vary from one place to another or from one person to another, unless a person is forced to do something, is sick or is excused, in which case the ruling is waived as much as required by his situation according to what it says in sharee�ah.  

An example of such a fixed rule is the obligation to offer the five daily prayers, to fast Ramadaan, to enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil, to seek knowledge, etc. 

Another example is the obligation for the Muslim woman to cover her entire body, including the face and hands. This ruling is obligatory and does not vary from one place to another. 

We have already discussed this obligation in questions no. file:///C:/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=21134 - 21134 and file:///C:/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=13647 - 13647 , where we quote the evidence for that. 

2 � Rulings which are based on specific reasons, or where the ruling as to whether a thing is forbidden, allowed or obligatory depends upon whatever good or bad consequences will result from that, and where there is no shar�i evidence to suggest a fixed ruling that does not vary. The issue of women driving cars may come under this heading. 

The scholars have issued fatwas stating that it is haraam because of the negative consequences that may result from it. 

This applies completely to the land of the two Holy Sanctuaries. With regard to other countries, the matter should be referred to trustworthy scholars for they know their countries� situation best. 

Shaykh �Abd al-�Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: 

People have spoken a great deal in the al-Jazeerah newspaper about the issue of women driving cars. It is well known that it leads to evil consequences which are well known to those who promote it, such as being alone with a non-mahram woman, unveiling, reckless mixing with men, and committing haraam actions because of which these things were forbidden. Islam forbids the things that lead to haraam and regards them as being haraam too.  

Allaah commanded the wives of the Prophet and the believing women to stay in their houses, to observe hijab and to avoid showing their adornments to non-mahrams because of the permissiveness that all these things lead to, which spells doom for society. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

�And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As-Salaah (Iqamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah and obey Allaah and His Messenger. Allaah wishes only to remove Ar-Rijs (evil deeds and sins) from you, O members of the family (of the Prophet), and to purify you with a thorough purification�

[al-Ahzaab 33:33] 

�O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed�

[al-Ahzaab 33:59] 

�And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, headcover, apron), and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband�s fathers, or their sons, or their husband�s sons, or their brothers or their brother�s sons, or their sister�s sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islam), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of feminine sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allaah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful�

[al-Noor 24:31] 

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: �No man is alone with a (non-mahram) woman but the Shaytaan is the third one present.� 

Islam forbids all the things that may lead to immorality or accusations of immoral conduct made against chaste women, who never even think of anything touching their chastity, and it has stipulated a punishment for that which is one of the most severe of punishments, in order to protect society from the spread of the causes of immorality. 

Women driving is one of the means that lead to that, and this is something obvious, but ignorance of the rulings of sharee�ah and the negative consequences of carelessness with regard to the things that lead to evil � as well as diseases of the heart that prevail at present � and love of permissiveness and enjoying looking at non-mahram women all lead to indulging in this and similar things, with no knowledge and paying no attention to the dangers that it leads to. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

�Say (O Muhammad): (But) the things that my Lord has indeed forbidden are Al-Fawaahish (great evil sins and every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse) whether committed openly or secretly, sins (of all kinds), unrighteous oppression, joining partners (in worship) with Allaah for which He has given no authority, and saying things about Allaah of which you have no knowledge�

[al-A�raaf 7:33] 

�and follow not the footsteps of Shaytaan (Satan). Verily, he is to you an open enemy�

[al-Baqarah 2:168] 

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: �I am not leaving behind me any fitnah more harmful to men than women.�  

It was narrated that Hudhayfah ibn al-Yamaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: �The people used to ask the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) about good things, but I used to ask him about bad things, fearing that I would live to see such things. I said, �O Messenger of Allaah, we were in a state of ignorance (jaahiliyyah) and evil, then Allaah sent us this good (i.e., Islam). Will there be any evil after this good?� He said, �Yes.� I said, �Will there by any good after that evil?� He said, �Yes, but it will be tainted.� I said, �How will it be tainted?� He said, �(There will be) some people who will guide others in a way that is not according to my guidance. You will approve of some of their deeds and disapprove of others.� I said, �Will there be any evil after that good?� He said, �Yes, there will be people calling at the gates of Hell, and whoever responds to their call, they will throw them into it (the Fire).� I said, �O Messenger of Allaah, describe them to us.� He said, �They will be from among our people, speaking our language.� I said, �What do you command me to do if I live to see such a thing?� He said, �Adhere to the jamaa�ah (group, community) of the Muslims and their imaam (leader).� I asked, �What if there is no jamaa�ah and no leader?� He said, �Then keep away from all those groups, even if you have to bite (eat) the roots of a tree until death overtakes you whilst you are in that state.�� Agreed upon. 

I call upon every Muslim to fear Allaah in all that he says and does and to beware of fitnah and those who promote it. He should keep away from all that angers Allaah or leads to His wrath, and he should be extremely cautious lest he be one of these callers to Hell of whom the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) tells us in this hadeeth. 

May Allaah protect us from the evil of fitnah and its people, and protect this ummah from the evil of those who promote bad things. May He help the writers of our newspapers and all the Muslims to do that which pleases Him and may He set the Muslims straight and save them in this world and in the Hereafter, for He is Able to do that. 

Majmoo� Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 3/351-353. 

Shaykh Ibn �Uthaymeen was asked: I hope you can explain the ruling on women driving cars. And what is your opinion on the idea that women driving cars is less dangerous than their riding with non-mahram drivers? 

The answer to this question is based on two principles which are well known among the Muslim scholars: 

The first principle is: that whatever leads to haraam is itself haraam. The evidence for this is the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

�And insult not those whom they (disbelievers) worship besides Allaah, lest they insult Allaah wrongfully without knowledge�

[al-An�aam 6:108] 

So Allaah forbids insulting the gods of the mushrikeen � even though that serves an interest � because it leads to insults against Allaah. 

The second principle is: that warding off evil � if it is equal to or greater than the interests concerned � takes precedence over bringing benefits. The evidence for that is the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

�They ask you (O Muhammad) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: In them is a great sin, and (some) benefits for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit�

[al-Baqarah 2:219] 

Allaah has forbidden alcohol and gambling even though there is some benefit in them, so as to ward off the evils that result from them.  

Based on these two principles, the ruling on women driving should be clear, because women driving includes a number of evils, including the following: 

1 � Removal of hijab, because driving a car involves uncovering the face which is the site of fitnah and attracts the glance of men. A woman is only regarded as beautiful or ugly on the basis of her face, i.e., if it is said that she is beautiful or ugly, people only think in terms of her face. If something else is meant it must be specified, so that one would say that she has beautiful hands or beautiful hair or beautiful feet. Hence it is known that the face is the focal point. If someone were to say that a woman can drive a car without taking off her hijab, by covering her face and wearing dark glasses over her eyes, the answer to that is that this is not what really happens when women drive cars. Ask those who have seen them in other countries. Even if we assume that this could be applied initially, it would not last for long, rather the situation would soon become as it is in other countries where women drive. This is how things usually develop; they start out in an acceptable fashion then they get worse.

2 � Another evil consequence of women driving cars is that they lose their modesty, and modesty is part of faith as is narrated in a saheeh report from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Modesty is the noble characteristic that befits the nature of women and protects them from being exposed to fitnah. Hence it is mentioned in a metaphorical sense (in Arabic), in the phrase �more modest than a virgin in her seclusion.� Once a woman�s modesty is lost, do not ask about her. 

3 � It also leads to women going out of the house a great deal, but their homes are better for them � as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said � because those who love to drive enjoy it very much, hence you see them driving around in their cars here and there for no purpose, except to enjoy driving.  

4 � You may find a divorced woman going where she wants, whenever she wants and however she wants, for whatever purpose she wants, because she is alone in her car, at any time she wants of the day or night. She may stay out until late at night. If people are complaining about this with regard to young men, then what about young women, going all over the place the length and breadth of the country, and maybe even beyond its borders. 

5 � It is a means of women rebelling against their families and husbands; at the least provocation they may go out of the house and drive in the car to wherever they think they can get some peace, as happens in the case of some young men, who are able to put up with more than women.  

6 � It is a cause of fitnah in many places: when stopping at the traffic lights, or at gas stations, or at inspection points, or when stopped by policemen at the scenes of traffic infractions or accidents, or if the car stalls and the woman needs help. What will her situation be in this case? Perhaps she may come across an immoral man who takes advantage of her in return for helping her, especially if her need is great to the point of urgency. 

7 � When women drive it leads to overcrowding in the streets, or it deprives some young men of the opportunity to drive cars when they are more deserving of that. 

8 � It causes fitnah to flourish because women � by their nature � like to make themselves look good with clothing etc. Do you not see how attached they are to fashion? Every time a new fashion appears they throw away what they have and rush to buy the new things, even if it is worse than what they have. Do you not see the adornments that they hang on their walls? In the same way � or perhaps more so � with the cars that they drive, whenever a new model appears they will give up the first for the new one. 

With regard to the questioner asking, �And what is your opinion on the idea that women driving cars is less dangerous than their riding with non-mahram drivers?� � what I think is that both of them involve danger, and one is more serious than the other in some ways, but there is no necessity that would require one to do either of them. 

Please note that I have answered this question at length because of the controversy that surrounds the issue of women driving cars, and the pressure faced by conservative Saudi society, which is striving to adhere to its religious commitment and morals, to allow women to drive cars. 

This would be nothing strange if it were to come from an enemy who seeks to cause harm this land which is the last bastion of Islam that the enemies of Islam wish to penetrate. But what is even stranger is that this is coming from our own people who speak our language and live under our banner, people who are dazzled by what the kaafir nations have of material advancement and admire their ways which are devoid of any moral restrictions. 

End quote from Shaykh Ibn �Uthaymeen. 

With regard to countries in which woman are allowed to drive cars, Muslim women should avoid that as much as possible, for the reasons mentioned above. 

In cases of necessity, such as helping accident victims or fleeing from a criminal, there is nothing wrong with a Muslim woman using a car in such situations, if she cannot find a man to help her. 

There are other cases, such as women who have to go out to work and have no husband, father or guardian to look after them and no income from the government to meet their needs, and they cannot find work that they can do at home, such as some internet-based jobs, so they are forced to go out. In that case they can use the means of transportation that poses the least danger to them. 

There may be some means of transportation that are available only to women, or a group of women may hire a driver to take them to work or university. Using taxis� for those who can afford it � may be better than using public transportation where a woman may be exposed to humiliation and aggression, so they should use taxis, so long as they are not alone with the driver. 

If a woman is forced to drive a car in cases of extreme need, then she should drive wearing full jilbaab and hijab, and with fear of Allaah. 

We have already mentioned above what constitutes need. 

Women should also seek fatwas from the trustworthy scholars in their own countries � not those who are too lenient � who understand both sharee�ah and the situation in that country. 

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

�So keep your duty to Allaah and fear Him as much as you can�

[al-Taghaabun 64:16] 

http://www.islam-qa.com/ - www.islam-qa.com

Question no 45880

Wa Alaikum Salam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

Alwardah,

Not to be rude, but are you saying that covering your eyes is obligatory????  Because even Niqabs leave the eyes unveiled. 

I'm sorry, but this explaination is completely false.  I don't LOOSE my modesty because I drive a car.  Nor do I attract men just because I'm driving. (If anything I scare them....) 

You don't have to remove your Hijab to drive.  Many, many sisters drive with their hijabs on.  And MOST scholars disagree that the face veil is obligatory. 

That fatwa you posted is insulting.  Men are more deserving of cars then women.  Women are sooo attached to fashion.  The sheik acts as if just because a woman gets behind the wheel of a car she suddenly becomes a lustful floosy.  Its insulting.

How is a woman supposed to get to work?  Ride the Bus...  example 6 says that a reason is she might come across an immoral man?  Busses are more dangerous for that then driving.  When I've broken down, its always been a police officer who's stopped to help...or AAA. 

And a divorced woman might go whereever she pleases.  Why not?  She's her own person right?  Islam says she's allowed to own property, participate in society...so why couldn't a divorced woman go whereever she wants.  Just because she wants to go somewhere doesn't make that bad.  Maybe she wants to go to a craft store.  Or a lecture at a college.  Perhaps she just wants to enjoy and afternoon in the park reading a book. 

This is wrong.  I'm sorry.  Normally, I don't have an issue with the things you post.  I went to mosque with Herjihad and another friend of hers this summer.  The three of us drove to the mosque in Hijab, covered from wrists, to ankles and with the scarves.  Herjihad's driving was not impaired in the least.  Meanwhile that same evening, my brother in law was pulled over for going 65 in a 45 with me and my sister in the car. 

Women take their kids to school, go grocery shopping, to doctors, to work, to the pharmacy, to college, and to family gatherings every day in cars without running out and becoming prostitutes.

If you really believe driving causes a woman to become a floosy, then you have a poor opinion of your own sex. 

Maybe its because we aren't locked away from life that we don't rebel so hard when we are given the freedoms to drive.  If you lock a woman in her house (even just with pressure to stay home and be a good robot) then you're asking for trouble when they finally break free.

I don't know who Islam-qa.com is... but certainly, they are not the only or the highest authority on the matter.

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=37834&d=11&m=1&y=2004 - http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=37 834&d=11&m=1&y=2004

Hi Angela

You have also posted some very interesting Fatawa and article on this issue.

I don�t find anything insulting in the Fatawa I posted, just a different way of approaching the same subject.

On the other hand I too will feel insulted if someone thinks I am not an active member of the community if I chose to stay at home and don�t drive to avoid the temptations of the outside world.

Not to be rude, but are you saying that covering your eyes is obligatory????  Because even Niqabs leave the eyes unveiled. 

No covering the face is not obligatory but the majority of the Saudi women do not wear the Niqab but cover their faces completely � no eyes showing. The Majority of the local women are completely covered.

The way I look at most issues pertaining to women � driving, working, Hijab, Niqab etc - it is the desires of the enemies of Islam to strip us of our honor and rights. You will not look at these issues the same way. You will think I am craze to even think that. Well maybe you are right. The only time I truly realized and appreciated the role of a Muslim woman was, after I started studying Islam. I grow up in a western country, and I know all about freedom.

The more I study Islam, the more I realize the games played by the enemies, (amongst the Muslims and the non-Muslims,) of Islam. Sometimes I wonder why so many women are reverting to Islam. Does not make any sense to me because women are portrayed as weak, oppressed, can�t work, can�t drive can�t do anything���..except keep house and be a slave to her husband, within locked indoors with the keys thrown away, so why would any sane woman wish to revert to Islam. Beats me!

Regarding that report - how many Saudi women actually signed the petition? 1100 men and women speaking for millions of Saudi women. We place too much emphasis on media reports, but I am sure the reality is very different. But then again times are changing, who knows where this will lead. From the time of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam) till about 10 or maybe 15 years ago, women were proud being just women. Now we have a few Muslims talking for the rest of us.

When did the need arise for women to drive, go shopping etc � when Muslims moved away from the true teachings of Islam � men forsaking their roles and women forsaking their roles, assigned by Allah.

We have to realize that our level of piety does not come any where near the level of piety of the early Muslims and the level of Fitnah (in the world today -even in Muslim countries) is a million times worse than the Fitnah during the early days of Islam. Don�t we have to take more precautions than them, don't we have to work 1000 times harder in order to enter Paradise?

Let me share one of my favorite verses from the Qur'an

�But the wish of those who follow their lusts is that you should deviate away (from the Right path), far, far away� (Surah An-Nisa' 4: 27)

As Muslims when we start compromising on one thing, we follow with another, then another. Not only Muslims - all mankind. Take a thief, first time he steals it is very difficult, second time easier then easier and easier until he does not regard it as a sin anymore. 

Look at some of the Muslim countries - open drinking, prostitution, no modesty at all � nothing. Haya, and Islam flew out of the window. Money, drinking, prostitution all flew in����� Audho Billahe minash Shaitanir-Rajim! Here's a warning for all Muslims: 

The Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam) said,

By He in Whose Hand is my soul! You will follow the traditions of those who were before you a hand span for a hand-span and forearm's length for forearm's length, and an arm's length for an arm's length. And even if they enter the den of a lizard, you will also enter it.

They asked, "Who, O Allah's Messenger, the People of the Book'' He said, (Who else)''  (Muslim)

The scholars have made it very clear there is no harm for the woman to learn what she is required to know of her religion and other sciences; it is in fact obligatory upon her to do so and if she needs to work outside her home she can do so as long as she takes all the necessary precautions and abide by the standards set by Islam.

However, due to their insight they are also warning women about the dangers of the outside world. We should stop and listen. We don't have to the choice is ours.

May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala protect us from our whims and desires and forgive us our shortcomings. May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala guide our misguided brothers and sisters back to the true path. Ameen!

Take care

Peace

Hi Angela,

The issue is related to Saudi Women and driving and the Fatawa I posted is by Saudi scholars.

Towards the end of the Fatawa the scholar states:

Women should also seek fatwas from the trustworthy scholars in their own countries � not those who are too lenient � who understand both sharee�ah and the situation in that country. 

When we discuss the situation of women in general, culture and other aspects come into play. In my country women don�t even wear Hijab. Islam is equal to the 5 pillars that�s it. It is not a way of life. Only recently we are seeing an Islamic revival in our country. Today some women wear Hijab, some wear Niqab. Women always worked and drove cars, some still drive wearing the Hijab, some drive wearing Niqab. Some like me stopped driving altogether. I don�t deny that Herjihad drove very nicely with Hijab � You know what � I used to drive wearing Niqab-no problem whatsoever. But I don�t live in Saudi Arabia the culture- their way of life is completely different there. What is normal for you and me is disastrous for them. Alhamdulillah! You are in favour of modesty. Very few Muslim women in my country know the true meaning of modesty. I did not know the true meaning either till a few years ago.

We always don�t accept anything that goes against our own way of thinking. We are too set in our ideas. I was like that till Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala opened by heart to the true teachings of Islam.  Alhamdulillah!

Like I said earlier, you and I will never agree because we see things differently. If the women at the time of the Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam) were so free, why did he (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam) say: (paraphrasing two Hadith) That women should seek the permission from their husbands to go to the Masjid (Salah is an obligation on all Muslims- why do I need my husband�s permission to fulfil a duty to my Lord when I am free to join the work force) and that women are rewarded much more if they prayed at home.

Yes there are many Hadith about women approaching the Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam) with questions. Didn�t I mention already that women can go out to seek education and work if there is a need for her to do so?

We get upset with Fatawas from scholars and are very quick to criticise them because we pick and chose what we wish to follow. I have walked down that road, I did that all the time, so I know what I am talking about.

I think personally, we lost our rights when we joined the work force. When we tried to compete with our husbands to bring more money into the home than him, when we started having dinners with our male colleagues when we should be putting our children to bed and teaching them the Dua to pray before sleeping, when our husband stopped supporting us anymore because we have become so self-sufficient.

I stay at home, I don�t have children. And at the same time I am not a useless member of the community. I visit the sick, I help orphans, go shopping and do many things outside the home as well but with a Mahram (my husband, my brother or nephew) beside me or a Mahram to take me to my destination and pick me up later. Most importantly I saved my marriage.

This is my way of looking at life just as you have your own views and priorities. If you read the Fatawa I posted carefully, you will see that the scholar is pointing out how one act can lead to another nowhere does he state that women should stay at home 24/7.

I have nothing more to add except that I agree with the Shaikhs who say that, it is the Fitnah of the women leaving her home that has made the men go out of control.

And these are the words of our dear Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam):

�I have not left behind me any temptation (Fitnah) more harmful for men than women� (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

Peace

I stay at home, I don�t have children. And at the same time I am not a useless member of the community. I visit the sick, I help orphans, go shopping and do many things outside the home as well but with a Mahram (my husband, my brother or nephew) beside me or a Mahram to take me to my destination and pick me up later. Most importantly I saved my marriage.

Then you aren't staying home, you are contributing.  That's my whole point.  There are places where women are expected to stay home and not even contribute by going out and visiting the sick and poor.

As for traveling with a Mahram...I will point out that traveling around with a Mahram is no safer than staying home without one.  Both events are true stories.

I live in a good neighborhood.  I have a small little house that doesn't scream (we have HD TV).  I have nothing of value in my home and my cars are older and in moderate condition.  However, one morning, shortly after my husband left for work, someone tried to break into the house while I was still in it.  Luckily, my husband always locks the door behind him (leftovers from a bad neighborhood we once lived in) and so I was warned by the rattling of the door.  I screamed that I was going to call the police and the man ran away. 

Second story, true.  I have a Muslimah friend who told me this one when I expressed my exasperation at this thread.  She told me that when she was heavily pregnant with her third child she was a stay at home mother.  She was alone with her daughter 8 year old daughter and 3 year old son.  They lived in low income housing because her husband could not afford better.  One day she found herself surrounded by gang members bent on mischeif.  They were at both of the doors out of her apartment and at the window.  She had no phone and no way out.  She really lucked out.  Her family could have been seriously hurt

In reality, you are no safer at home alone than you are in the grocery store.  My point Alwardah is you cannot live life in fear.  If you live in fear of the world, then you are not enjoying the life God granted you. 

You think women leaving the home has caused men to go out of control.  I say men have been out of control since Cain slew Abel.  You look throughout the Bible and history and see nothing but men harming women.  No matter what the social status of women is at the time.  In the house or out of it.  Romans, Chinese, Babylon, Egypt, India. 

Men are the ones who need reigns, not women.  A woman is faithful, loyal and dedicated naturally.

Now, as for Saudi Arabia.  Do I believe that then giving women their rights is going to cause mass chaos?  You know, honestly YES!

This is why, (sorry for another story).  Growing up, I taught sunday school, had good parents and was a diligent student.  Exactly the same for my best friend.  However, there was one major difference between our parents.  Trust.  My parents trusted that I was taught well by them and that I would make the choices that were right.  I was allowed to get my drivers license right away.  I was allowed to go to social functions as long as I kept my parents appraised of where, when and who.  Before I could go on my own, my father often chaperoned the functions I was at, but I was allowed to go.  On the flip side, my friend wasn't allowed out of the house save horseback riding with me, and staying at my house on weekends.  She never got to go to school functions, even if my dad was chaperoning...(mind you she stayed at my house ever other weekend since we were 8 years old).  When she finally got her drivers license, she stuck out and did all sorts of things.  Her family was far stricter in their control of her.  So, she had boyfriends, drank, smoked and got into trouble.  I went to the movies, sometimes friends homes and generally stayed out of trouble.  I even went so far as to have my mother come get me from a birthday party when I found out there was alcohol brought by some of the guests. 

Now, here's the moral of the story...  I am happily married for 6.5 years.  I don't drink, smoke or do drugs.  My parents trusted me, because they taught me well and gave me the freedom to express those lessons.  Her parents never trusted her, they kept a leash on her until she went to college.  Then she really went wild.  Now, she's unmarried, with a son, she's a borderline alcoholic and thinks her life is done. 

I think that Saudi women will become like my friend.  Why?  Because their men have never trusted them.  They have never trusted that they will make the right choice.  Of course women will make the right choice...why do you think so many western women are converting to Islam?  Because they want to do the right things by God.  Meanwhile, I have personally witnessed girls from oppressive societies like India abandon all they were taught at the first sign of freedom.  They suddenly have choices and no life lessons to know what is right and wrong.  Then when they finally realize they've made the wrong choices, the unforgiving nature of their society tells them they are unclean and unforgivable.

Saudi society is not Islamic society.  They would like to think that, but they aren't.  True Islamic society is something like Spain during its Golden Era.  Freedoms of Religion, learning and thought. 

Also, in this time of the internet and communication I want to caution you on one other thing.  Scholars should have a verifiable education at a trusted Islamic University.  Anyone today can set up a website, claim to be a Sheik and start issuing fatwas based on their own interpretations.  Sunni, Shia, Salafi sheiks often don't even label their sites one way or another. 

The Quran is the road, the Hadith are the lines on the road that help you stay in your own lane.  The Sheiks are sign posts.  But signs can be wrong, confusing or broken.  Stick to the road...use the signs, use the lines...but trust only the pavement.

Hi Angela,

You know sister we are at cross roads here- you are discussing about fear and I am talking about women staying at home in obedience to Allah. The fear you are talking about we go thru on a daily basis whether we are alone, with our Mahrams or with a group of people, inside the home or outside. The crime rate in my country is amongst one of the highest in the world.

My whole argument is that Allah has given men a role and women a role � and we should strive to fulfil these roles to the best of our ability. Men work outside the home, women work inside the home - so simple. And this is something I truly believe in and this is something you don�t believe in. If you did the initial Fatawa I posted would not have offended you.

As far as scholars are concerned, you are correct I totally agree with you. We have to be extremely careful when choosing scholars and/or websites. This also applies to the books we read - infact every media.

Yes there is no Islamic society in the true sense of the word � in letter or in spirit. However I pray that you do meet and make friends with Saudi women � not those who are making all the noise but those who are the core of the Saudi society, you will be in for some big time surprises.

Take care

Peace

Intresting discussion.

Just to say that if we follow the lines of the road [Quran and sunnah}, then why will all these dilemmas crop up? Woman need to enjoy there freedom which is at its maximum. Instead of trying to cross those lines and expanding those limits.  You can create a beautiful  world being at  home itself. Woman in Islam is n't a robot at all when all her rights are entertained and she performs her duties. Anyways, shall not deviate the topic. I totally agree with the fatwa, sis Alwardah had provided us from islam-qa. Angela don't i agree with those points there?

Its great to think that women should "just stay at home." The reality is that this is not at all practical.  I can simpley say we need women in different realms of life.

I know for instance that in Saudi Arabia they have malls for women only. In that case they need women to work in these malls.

2nd women whould and have rights to education. Who will teach these women? Don't we need women educators? I have a gift as a teacher. That is something that I gain and others gain from it. There is nothing that says I should just stay at home. And one issue in the Moslem world is that there is not enough women educators. How can 60% of women in Pakistan and 40% of Arab women remain illiterate? How can any Moslem society think that this acceptable? How can women adequately participate in society if they are severely hampered in this way. What happens if something goes wrong and she must work? If she does not have an education her life and the life of any children is severely restricted. Thus we need women to educte women.

3rd: women should have rights to medical care. I tell you having had a woman doctor made all the difference in the world. 

Not all women have a "man" to protect them. That is a given. Not all men can provide adequately for women. Clearly that is the case or the vast majority of the poor in the world would not be women and children.

One thing I saw that was very difficult was the culture of dependency this creates when a "rigid" system is set up of men out of home, women in home. Were not the Prophet's wives active in the community? Was not Khadijah a business woman? Did not women go and nurse the wounded? In a more "basic" lifestyle you contributed. I reember reading that most women there did some type of labor of some sort. The "just stay at home" thing is only, only for the wealthy. Thus this sort of impractical concept only happens in Saudi Arabia. They are wealthy enough to put it into practice. The vast majority of women in the world do work. They work really hard. My favorite was in the villages seeing women carrying huge budles of wood on their backs while the men say around.  Imagine if they just "stayed" in the home these men would have to do the hard work.

When I was in Pakistan it ws very difficult to always be reliant upon others to take me somewhere. To have to always be depedent upon them. It thus not only creates a mental mindset of helplessness, but also a very big power imbalance.

Angela, you are right about the safety factor. We are all less safe when we are alone. Crime is about opportunity as well as motive. That is why people break into homes with women alone and rape them.

It is irritating as driving is a skill. They don't even say the women can drive with a mahram with them. So it is stricly about "control". If they cannot drive they have to "obey." This is treating women as though they are children. They cannot make decisions for themselves. 

Hayfa wrote: Angela, you are right about the safety factor. We are all less safe when we are alone. Crime is about opportunity as well as motive. That is why people break into homes with women alone and rape them. It is irritating as driving is a skill. They don't even say the women can drive with a mahram with them. So it is stricly about "control". If they cannot drive they have to "obey." This is treating women as though they are children. They cannot make decisions for themselves.

You know, I never even thought of the rule that a woman could drive with a mahram present.  When my husband was hurt, he could not drive for nearly 3 months.  I had to carry him up and down stairs to the bathroom.

I could not live the Islamic life that the fatwa posted says I have to.  I live in Utah.  My blood relatives live in Pennsylvania.  I am 2200 miles from my closest mahram other than my husband.  I couldn't use my brother in laws, they aren't mahram.  If I were to live in that kind of society, I would be locked up.  Maybe not out of cruelty, but out of sheer circumstance.  And I'm lucky, I have a husband.  What about widows, divorcees and sisters who have never married. 

I have not been safe in my own home alone, someone has to work so I can't be babysat 24 hours a day. Also, since I have no children, there's little for me to do at home.  We don't make a big mess.  Dishes and laundry take minutes.  Vacuuming once a week in my small home takes less than 30 minutes and most of that is moving furniture out of the way.  So, why shouldn't I work?

I'm getting my computer science degree.  I want to develop software after graduation.  I want to improve my community with volunteering at the food bank and becoming a mentor to a child who doesn't have one.

You cannot expect women to be so dependent on men that they cannot live their lives without one.  This is not what God wants, he doesn't want us to be slaves of circumstance and he certainly doesn't want us to sit at home miserable because there is no chaperon to take us to the library.  Idle hands serve the devil. 

Now, given all that, I'm not against women who CHOOSE to stay home because of their circumstances.  If you don't need to work or if you feel that you are so weak that you must have a guardian at all times, that's your choice.  What I am against is the forcing of this obedience.

Doing things for the sake of Allah is one thing, not doing anything because you're told you're only job is to be barefoot and pregnant is completely different. 

There were other parts of the fatwa that upset me.  The comment that boys were more deserving of cars...why?  Why does a woman having a car mean a boy cannot?  Are there not enough cars in the world?  That somehow a woman is more prone to sin when she is out alone.  She might be more prone to being a victim of violent crime, but certainly she's not less morally than a man. 

Why is it that a woman outside of the house without her mahram means she's a floosy?  And why is it okay for my teenage son to be out running around with his friends getting into innocent mischief, but if my teenage daughter left the house to go shopping with her friends, she's some how sinning? 

Why is it okay for my husband to go on LOOOOONG business trips where temptations to cheat abound?  But, I cannot according to scholars travel 88 miles without a chaperon, even if its to go see family? 

Is my staying home going to make a man less prone to cheat on his wife?  He's not getting anywhere with me.  Is my staying home going to make my husband less likely to cheat on me?  What if I can't trust him?  And if I never leave the house without a mahram because I want to please Allah, what happens if I have a husband who refuses to take me anywhere?  Or what happens if my child falls and I need to go to the hospital and my husband is at work?

And lastly....to Alwardah... I understand its a Hadith that a woman must get her husband's permission to go to mosque.  That frankly is wrong.  I refuse to have my relationship with God dictated to me by my husband.  If I want to pray with my sisters in Islam in a mosque, I never let my husband tell me I could not congregate with my fellow Muslims.  Frankly, that was probably said by the Prophet in the times of Persecution when it was dangerous to go to the Mosque without an escort.  Don't quote Hadith to me without context and time periods.  The time of the Prophet was very different from our time.  There were many years of the Prophet's life that it was dangerous to follow Islam and thus extra precautions were necessary.  However, it shouldn't be an excuse for limiting a woman from her access to a religious center. 

Church, Synagogue, Mosque, Temple... its more than just a place to pray.  Its also a place to learn, they are schools.  Its also a place to come together as one people in your love of the Almighty.  No man is going to keep me from loving, learning and sharing my faith.  I don't care if he is my husband, father or some guy down the street.  I am God's daughter, I have a right to be in his house.

And lastly....to Alwardah... I understand its a Hadith that a woman must get her husband's permission to go to mosque.  That frankly is wrong.  I refuse to have my relationship with God dictated to me by my husband.  If I want to pray with my sisters in Islam in a mosque, I never let my husband tell me I could not congregate with my fellow Muslims.  Frankly, that was probably said by the Prophet in the times of Persecution when it was dangerous to go to the Mosque without an escort.  Don't quote Hadith to me without context and time periods.  The time of the Prophet was very different from our time.  There were many years of the Prophet's life that it was dangerous to follow Islam and thus extra precautions were necessary.  However, it shouldn't be an excuse for limiting a woman from her access to a religious center.

Hi Angela,

It is so obvious that you are more knowledgeable about Islam than me, maybe you could enlighten me about the circumstances why this particular Hadith does not apply today and only during the time of the Prophet (Sallallahu alayhi wa Sallam) so I can show it to my husband as proof � �see this Hadith does not apply today now I can go to the Masjid without your permission.�

Take care

Peace

As Salamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

My comment �Men work outside the home, women work inside the home - so simple.� in my last post was in bad taste.  There was no way I was implying that we don�t need female teachers, doctors, nurses etc.

Neither did the scholars in the fatawa I posted make such a claim.

This thread was about Saudi women asking to lift the ban on driving. The fatawa I post was by Saudi scholars explaining the reason why driving in their society will be a disaster quoting from the Glorious Qur'an and Hadith. Because the Fatawa did not agree with our way of life and our thinking we were offended by it. Shaikh ibn Baz (Rahimahullah) was the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia. He had more rights to decide what is right or wrong for his people then you and me. He did not issue the Fatawa for us but for his own community, the scholar who presented his view stated we should refer this matter to our own scholars. On the other hand, like most Fatawas it can also apply to all Muslim women where ever they live.

There is no scholar that I know of who does not encourage women to become doctors, teachers and taking up other worthwhile professions. But all such activities must comply with the teachings as laid down by the Shariah. No mixing of sexes etc.

Where there is a need the scholars don�t deprive a woman of her rights. If a woman cannot find a female doctor she can be examined by a male doctor. If there are no colleges for women to study medicine, she can go to a co-ed college or university as long as she is wearing proper Hijab and keeping contact with the male students to the minimum.

Islam is a beautiful religion and so easy to follow. We are the ones who are putting obstacles in our way and making things difficult for ourselves.

Driving is not specific to only women who are doctors, teachers, etc if the ban is lifted every women who wished to drive will drive. What is so wrong when a scholar who can foresee the Fitnah that will come to his society to try and prevent it by warning his people of the evil consequences?

Did not the Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam) warn us that Zina, drinking alcohol, dealing with interest, will be things that the Muslims will indulge in without shame towards the end of time. Don�t we see it happening today? What will be, will be? The scholars have a duty to warn us, the choice is ours to listen or ignore. Just as it is our choice to accept Islam fully or piece-meal or not at all.

May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala forgive us for our shortcomings and protect us from our own whims and desires. Ameen!

Wa Alaikum Salam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

 Staying at all home all the times doe sn't mean you stay at home even when iits necessary. Woman are allowed to come out only when the necessity demands. Yes, we need medical doctors and in the field of medicine. Why do we need female nurses for men hospitalised. There are even male nurses. When women shout up the slogans of "EQUALITY", then why don't they participate along the other soldiers at war fields. Why are female nurses not allowed there. Infact we nursing is very much required. Why do they have male nurses? There i few tasks which can very well be handled by men and few by women. Let them handle those tasks respectively. Why to get into the shoes of one another? It does n't mean they are n't equal. They are superior in one task or the other.

We are asked to change our path when seems to crop of any fitnah. Path in the sense any other option to accomplish that task.

Praying at home is preferable does not mean that that women are not permitted to go to the mosque, as is clear from the following hadeeth: You can show your husband {Angela] these hadith of sahih Muslim.

Abdullah b. Umar reported: I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) say: Don't prevent your women from going to the mosque when they seek your permission. Bilal b. 'Abdullah said: By Allah, we shall certainly prevent them. On this'Abdullah b. Umar turned towards him and reprimanded him to harshly as I had never heard him do before. He ('Abdullah b. Umar) said: I am narrating to you that which comes from the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and you (have the audicity) to say: By Allah, we shall certainly prevent them.  (Book #004, Hadith #0885) 
 lbn Umar reported: I heard the Messeinger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: When your women seek your permission for going to the mosque, you grant them (permission).  (Book #004, Hadith #0887) 
 Ibn 'Umar reported: Grant permission to women for going to the mosque in the night. His son who was called Waqid said: Then they would make mischief. He (the narrator) said: He thumped his (son's) chest and said: I am narrating to you the hadith of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), and you say: No!  (Book #004, Hadith #0890)

You cannot expect women to be so dependent on men that they cannot live their lives without one.  This is not what God wants, he doesn't want us to be slaves of circumstance and he certainly doesn't want us to sit at home miserable because there is no chaperon to take us to the library.  Idle hands serve the devil. 

Angela if circumstances demand to work then there's nothing wrong in that. But its wrong to say women are so dependant on men. Likewise, i would say here that in such cases where women are at home, even men are very dependant on her.  Being idle is also wrong. I totally agree that it serves devil. Awoman has got lots of her talents hidden. Its only we need to recognize them utilise it. Wives of our Prophet SAWS, also did businesses, did we ever happen to read that they were on any trip. For instance take the case of our Prophet who before bestowed with prophethood worked for kHADIJAH RA, She was a renowed businesswoman. Did she happen to come out. Even the other wives of prophet, did various bussineses being at home.

Woman can educate a society being at home. U said u wish to serve commuinty and shall complete a course of computers. Its not necessary that u work at else insitutes rather open them at home. Start up with 2 computers atleast.

Other point i wish to add is women deprive of there responsibilities when go out for work, be it unwillingly. For instance, if you were a working lady and during that accident, how would u have given time to your husband? U either have to give up your job or spare little time to husnad who demands your attenion. At other cases, what shall a woman do when her children demand her attention when they are ill? Such situations be it small require utmost attention of a woman and can be fulfilled only by a woman. As i said earlier, woman can beautify her own world being at home itself.

Am sorry am off topic of driving. I totally agree with the fatwa of saudi. But as marked by sis Alwardah, that the fatwa shall vary st places.

You know there was a thread on this awhile ago.. same issue, women driving in SA.

Limiting women from driving, as if it some special thing is really about control. Let me ask, why do they not allow women to drive with husband, father present? Are they not prohibited from driving at all? Why shouldn't they be allowed to drive period?

Other point i wish to add is women deprive of there responsibilities when go out for work, be it unwillingly. For instance, if you were a working lady and during that accident, how would u have given time to your husband? U either have to give up your job or spare little time to husnad who demands your attenion

Is this not true if the man is busy at work and cannot spare time for his wife, thus neglecting his "husbandly" duty? how many husbands go to work and then head out with their brother friends, living the wife alone at home. Happens alot. Here in the west, people take what is called "sick leave." You take a day off.  Obviously it is about whether you are wealthy enough to do so.

Driving is not specific to only women who are doctors, teachers, etc if the ban is lifted every women who wished to drive will drive. What is so wrong when a scholar who can foresee the Fitnah that will come to his society to try and prevent it by warning his people of the evil consequences?

Yes nut it is not even allowed for doctors, teachers etc. There are no exceptions. So where is the practical, even basic level covered? Let's saya woman is a doctor. Her patient is in labor, about to give birth. She needs to go and get there. It is 10 minutes away. So she has to find someone to come and get her? Where in the world is the logic?

When I was in Pakistan there were women driving. And Pakistan is a fairly conservative society. Not a lot of women drove. But some did. So it is wrong to say if it is allowed all women will "start doing it."

Why do we need female nurses for men hospitalised. There are even male nurses.

Well the reality is that women have been nurses in all societies. And it cannot be denied that women were nurses during the Prohet's time. And if it was fine then it is fine now.

You cannot have it both ways. Women are the more nautural "at caretaking." If a woman is more natural at being "motherly" so are nurses. We nurture the sick, old, young, etc.

Yes women can go to male doctors. And if you want to have an Islamic society it is also good to have women nurses. Most women in Moslem societies do not want to get naked for check-ups with male doctors. And giving birth etc.  It is good for decency and such.

I have no problem is someone shows with Quran and Hadith that something is such and such. What is more of an issue is this man"s "reasoning."  But there is nothing that says in any place that women should be completely prohibited from driving. Even with a mahram present. They make an outright prohibition for teachers, doctors etc. So it appears to put and classify all women and this is not at all right. I wil lbe judged upon Judgement Day. Just like any man. If I over step the line then I live with that. But to deny me my rights as a human being cause "i might" so something wrong, it to treat me as a child. And in fact treat men as chidlren. Really.

Of course they can do what they want. But we can have opinions.

Alwardah wrote: As Salamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu   I am not sure if I can post this fatawa in the "Current Events" but since it is related here goes: -   Does the ruling on driving a car vary from one country to another? Question: Throughout the Muslim world we find that there are differences between one country and another, in manner of dress, customs and traditions. For example we see that in some countries our sisters wear niqaab, because they follow the fatwa that says that niqaab is obligatory, but that is not widespread in another country, and the opinion that they follow there is that niqaab is not obligatory, rather it is mustahabb. Similarly with regard to women driving cars, in some countries the shaykhs have declared it to be haraam because of the harms that would result if it were allowed, whilst in other countries it is a very ordinary thing for a woman to drive a car, and they have been doing so for decades.  To what extent is there flexibility in rulings? Is what is happening correct, I mean is it right that something may be obligatory in one country and mustahabb in another?. Answer: Praise be to Allaah.     The rulings of sharee�ah are of two types:  1 � Those where the evidence of sharee�ah points to the ruling, regardless of various customs or what good or bad consequences may result.    In this case the ruling is fixed and does not vary from one place to another or from one person to another, unless a person is forced to do something, is sick or is excused, in which case the ruling is waived as much as required by his situation according to what it says in sharee�ah.     An example of such a fixed rule is the obligation to offer the five daily prayers, to fast Ramadaan, to enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil, to seek knowledge, etc.    Another example is the obligation for the Muslim woman to cover her entire body, including the face and hands. This ruling is obligatory and does not vary from one place to another.  We have already discussed this obligation in questions no. file:///C:/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=21134 - 21134 and file:///C:/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=13647 - 13647 , where we quote the evidence for that.    2 � Rulings which are based on specific reasons, or where the ruling as to whether a thing is forbidden, allowed or obligatory depends upon whatever good or bad consequences will result from that, and where there is no shar�i evidence to suggest a fixed ruling that does not vary. The issue of women driving cars may come under this heading.    The scholars have issued fatwas stating that it is haraam because of the negative consequences that may result from it.  This applies completely to the land of the two Holy Sanctuaries. With regard to other countries, the matter should be referred to trustworthy scholars for they know their countries� situation best.  Shaykh �Abd al-�Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:    People have spoken a great deal in the al-Jazeerah newspaper about the issue of women driving cars. It is well known that it leads to evil consequences which are well known to those who promote it, such as being alone with a non-mahram woman, unveiling, reckless mixing with men, and committing haraam actions because of which these things were forbidden. Islam forbids the things that lead to haraam and regards them as being haraam too.     Allaah commanded the wives of the Prophet and the believing women to stay in their houses, to observe hijab and to avoid showing their adornments to non-mahrams because of the permissiveness that all these things lead to, which spells doom for society. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):    �And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As-Salaah (Iqamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah and obey Allaah and His Messenger. Allaah wishes only to remove Ar-Rijs (evil deeds and sins) from you, O members of the family (of the Prophet), and to purify you with a thorough purification� [al-Ahzaab 33:33]    �O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed� [al-Ahzaab 33:59]    �And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer palms of hands or one eye or dress like veil, gloves, headcover, apron), and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, or their fathers, or their husband�s fathers, or their sons, or their husband�s sons, or their brothers or their brother�s sons, or their sister�s sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islam), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of feminine sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allaah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful� [al-Noor 24:31]    And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: �No man is alone with a (non-mahram) woman but the Shaytaan is the third one present.�    Islam forbids all the things that may lead to immorality or accusations of immoral conduct made against chaste women, who never even think of anything touching their chastity, and it has stipulated a punishment for that which is one of the most severe of punishments, in order to protect society from the spread of the causes of immorality.    Women driving is one of the means that lead to that, and this is something obvious, but ignorance of the rulings of sharee�ah and the negative consequences of carelessness with regard to the things that lead to evil � as well as diseases of the heart that prevail at present � and love of permissiveness and enjoying looking at non-mahram women all lead to indulging in this and similar things, with no knowledge and paying no attention to the dangers that it leads to. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):    �Say (O Muhammad): (But) the things that my Lord has indeed forbidden are Al-Fawaahish (great evil sins and every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse) whether committed openly or secretly, sins (of all kinds), unrighteous oppression, joining partners (in worship) with Allaah for which He has given no authority, and saying things about Allaah of which you have no knowledge� [al-A�raaf 7:33]    �and follow not the footsteps of Shaytaan (Satan). Verily, he is to you an open enemy� [al-Baqarah 2:168]    And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: �I am not leaving behind me any fitnah more harmful to men than women.�     It was narrated that Hudhayfah ibn al-Yamaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: �The people used to ask the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) about good things, but I used to ask him about bad things, fearing that I would live to see such things. I said, �O Messenger of Allaah, we were in a state of ignorance (jaahiliyyah) and evil, then Allaah sent us this good (i.e., Islam). Will there be any evil after this good?� He said, �Yes.� I said, �Will there by any good after that evil?� He said, �Yes, but it will be tainted.� I said, �How will it be tainted?� He said, �(There will be) some people who will guide others in a way that is not according to my guidance. You will approve of some of their deeds and disapprove of others.� I said, �Will there be any evil after that good?� He said, �Yes, there will be people calling at the gates of Hell, and whoever responds to their call, they will throw them into it (the Fire).� I said, �O Messenger of Allaah, describe them to us.� He said, �They will be from among our people, speaking our language.� I said, �What do you command me to do if I live to see such a thing?� He said, �Adhere to the jamaa�ah (group, community) of the Muslims and their imaam (leader).� I asked, �What if there is no jamaa�ah and no leader?� He said, �Then keep away from all those groups, even if you have to bite (eat) the roots of a tree until death overtakes you whilst you are in that state.�� Agreed upon.    I call upon every Muslim to fear Allaah in all that he says and does and to beware of fitnah and those who promote it. He should keep away from all that angers Allaah or leads to His wrath, and he should be extremely cautious lest he be one of these callers to Hell of whom the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) tells us in this hadeeth.    May Allaah protect us from the evil of fitnah and its people, and protect this ummah from the evil of those who promote bad things. May He help the writers of our newspapers and all the Muslims to do that which pleases Him and may He set the Muslims straight and save them in this world and in the Hereafter, for He is Able to do that.  Majmoo� Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 3/351-353.    Shaykh Ibn �Uthaymeen was asked: I hope you can explain the ruling on women driving cars. And what is your opinion on the idea that women driving cars is less dangerous than their riding with non-mahram drivers?    The answer to this question is based on two principles which are well known among the Muslim scholars:    The first principle is: that whatever leads to haraam is itself haraam. The evidence for this is the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):    �And insult not those whom they (disbelievers) worship besides Allaah, lest they insult Allaah wrongfully without knowledge� [al-An�aam 6:108]    So Allaah forbids insulting the gods of the mushrikeen � even though that serves an interest � because it leads to insults against Allaah.  The second principle is: that warding off evil � if it is equal to or greater than the interests concerned � takes precedence over bringing benefits. The evidence for that is the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):    �They ask you (O Muhammad) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: In them is a great sin, and (some) benefits for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit� [al-Baqarah 2:219]    Allaah has forbidden alcohol and gambling even though there is some benefit in them, so as to ward off the evils that result from them.   Based on these two principles, the ruling on women driving should be clear, because women driving includes a number of evils, including the following:    1 � Removal of hijab, because driving a car involves uncovering the face which is the site of fitnah and attracts the glance of men. A woman is only regarded as beautiful or ugly on the basis of her face, i.e., if it is said that she is beautiful or ugly, people only think in terms of her face. If something else is meant it must be specified, so that one would say that she has beautiful hands or beautiful hair or beautiful feet. Hence it is known that the face is the focal point. If someone were to say that a woman can drive a car without taking off her hijab, by covering her face and wearing dark glasses over her eyes, the answer to that is that this is not what really happens when women drive cars. Ask those who have seen them in other countries. Even if we assume that this could be applied initially, it would not last for long, rather the situation would soon become as it is in other countries where women drive. This is how things usually develop; they start out in an acceptable fashion then they get worse.   2 � Another evil consequence of women driving cars is that they lose their modesty, and modesty is part of faith as is narrated in a saheeh report from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Modesty is the noble characteristic that befits the nature of women and protects them from being exposed to fitnah. Hence it is mentioned in a metaphorical sense (in Arabic), in the phrase �more modest than a virgin in her seclusion.� Once a woman�s modesty is lost, do not ask about her.    3 � It also leads to women going out of the house a great deal, but their homes are better for them � as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said � because those who love to drive enjoy it very much, hence you see them driving around in their cars here and there for no purpose, except to enjoy driving.     4 � You may find a divorced woman going where she wants, whenever she wants and however she wants, for whatever purpose she wants, because she is alone in her car, at any time she wants of the day or night. She may stay out until late at night. If people are complaining about this with regard to young men, then what about young women, going all over the place the length and breadth of the country, and maybe even beyond its borders.    5 � It is a means of women rebelling against their families and husbands; at the least provocation they may go out of the house and drive in the car to wherever they think they can get some peace, as happens in the case of some young men, who are able to put up with more than women.     6 � It is a cause of fitnah in many places: when stopping at the traffic lights, or at gas stations, or at inspection points, or when stopped by policemen at the scenes of traffic infractions or accidents, or if the car stalls and the woman needs help. What will her situation be in this case? Perhaps she may come across an immoral man who takes advantage of her in return for helping her, especially if her need is great to the point of urgency.    7 � When women drive it leads to overcrowding in the streets, or it deprives some young men of the opportunity to drive cars when they are more deserving of that.    8 � It causes fitnah to flourish because women � by their nature � like to make themselves look good with clothing etc. Do you not see how attached they are to fashion? Every time a new fashion appears they throw away what they have and rush to buy the new things, even if it is worse than what they have. Do you not see the adornments that they hang on their walls? In the same way � or perhaps more so � with the cars that they drive, whenever a new model appears they will give up the first for the new one.  With regard to the questioner asking, �And what is your opinion on the idea that women driving cars is less dangerous than their riding with non-mahram drivers?� � what I think is that both of them involve danger, and one is more serious than the other in some ways, but there is no necessity that would require one to do either of them.  Please note that I have answered this question at length because of the controversy that surrounds the issue of women driving cars, and the pressure faced by conservative Saudi society, which is striving to adhere to its religious commitment and morals, to allow women to drive cars.    This would be nothing strange if it were to come from an enemy who seeks to cause harm this land which is the last bastion of Islam that the enemies of Islam wish to penetrate. But what is even stranger is that this is coming from our own people who speak our language and live under our banner, people who are dazzled by what the kaafir nations have of material advancement and admire their ways which are devoid of any moral restrictions.    End quote from Shaykh Ibn �Uthaymeen.    With regard to countries in which woman are allowed to drive cars, Muslim women should avoid that as much as possible, for the reasons mentioned above.    In cases of necessity, such as helping accident victims or fleeing from a criminal, there is nothing wrong with a Muslim woman using a car in such situations, if she cannot find a man to help her.    There are other cases, such as women who have to go out to work and have no husband, father or guardian to look after them and no income from the government to meet their needs, and they cannot find work that they can do at home, such as some internet-based jobs, so they are forced to go out. In that case they can use the means of transportation that poses the least danger to them.  There may be some means of transportation that are available only to women, or a group of women may hire a driver to take them to work or university. Using taxis� for those who can afford it � may be better than using public transportation where a woman may be exposed to humiliation and aggression, so they should use taxis, so long as they are not alone with the driver.    If a woman is forced to drive a car in cases of extreme need, then she should drive wearing full jilbaab and hijab, and with fear of Allaah.    We have already mentioned above what constitutes need.    Women should also seek fatwas from the trustworthy scholars in their own countries � not those who are too lenient � who understand both sharee�ah and the situation in that country.    And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):    �So keep your duty to Allaah and fear Him as much as you can� [al-Taghaabun 64:16]  http://www.islam-qa.com/ - www.islam-qa.com Question no 45880 Wa Alaikum Salam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

Obviously a "wahabi" run site will feel insecure about a woman "driving", and will uphold the Saudi view (no one should be suprised, these are the same guys that denounce mawlid as innovation, kufr, shirk, etc, etc). Their reasoning is weak as it plays on "doorway theology". Such and such thing "may" lead to something, therefore it is not permissible. (which is the excuse the Saudis give when they rip apart and destroy ever remaining bit of Islamic history to make way for high rise hotels and parking lots to bilk hajjis out of their money.) There is no good reason why a woman should not be allowed to drive, as long as the distance does not exceed a certain amount and then she will require a guardian, which still does not mean she cannot drive. In my opinion, religion becomes a tool for a weak minded and insecure male culture to bolster their position in relation to females as a means to control them. Face it, many male Muslims have the female dress code down like second nature, and will go to all lengths to enforce it with great zeal in the name of God...if only many males had the same drive to enforce their fard prayers and sunnah prayers. Countries like Saudi Arabia have turned nearly half of its population into unproductive, uneducated servants in the name of religion. This is why I have found that when some Saudi men are stationed in the US for training, they enroll their daughters in driving school and sometimes even swimming lessons (depending on their age of course).

The real issue that needs to be brought out is the idea of culture vs religion.

"Dr. Afaf Al-Bar, associate professor of Arabic at King Abdul Aziz University, agrees with Al-Qarni that Islam does not prohibit women from driving. �But the problem is that our society is not ready for women driving yet,� she said. Even though she can drive abroad, she does not think that the social environment in the Kingdom is suitable for women driving. �There are also problems such as lack of parking facilities, bad road conditions and reckless driving,� she added."

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=37834&d=11&m=1&y=2004 - http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=37 834&d=11&m=1&y=2004

Allah knows best

Angela wrote: Hayfa wrote: Angela, you are right about the safety factor. We are all less safe when we are alone. Crime is about opportunity as well as motive. That is why people break into homes with women alone and rape them. It is irritating as driving is a skill. They don't even say the women can drive with a mahram with them. So it is stricly about "control". If they cannot drive they have to "obey." This is treating women as though they are children. They cannot make decisions for themselves.  You know, I never even thought of the rule that a woman could drive with a mahram present.  When my husband was hurt, he could not drive for nearly 3 months.  I had to carry him up and down stairs to the bathroom. I could not live the Islamic life that the fatwa posted says I have to.

neither could I, as a male, or my wife. That fatwa was an extreme position by Saudi clerics that has subtones of "male control" in the name of faith written all over it. As a man, I do not want a helpless automaton to mother my children. Children should be raised by the best.  

Sister Angela, I just want you to know that I am not being sarcastic when I say that you have better knowledge about Islam in some aspects than me. I have always found throughout my time in this forum the deep insight you and Sister Angel have not only about Islam but other religions and ideologies as well. I am always amazed by the way you and Angel stand up for Islam despite being non-Muslims. In a few threads I have also posted to that effect, expressing my feelings.

Regarding the Hadith in question. I cannot add much except that it was revealed in Al-Madinah, when Islam was at its peak and at a time when both men and women lowered their gazes. Personally I would say this Hadith applies more today than at the time it was revealed as our level of Iman is no where near the level of Iman of the early Muslims.

Peace

Andalus wrote: Angela wrote: Hayfa wrote: Angela, you are right about the safety factor. We are all less safe when we are alone. Crime is about opportunity as well as motive. That is why people break into homes with women alone and rape them. It is irritating as driving is a skill. They don't even say the women can drive with a mahram with them. So it is stricly about "control". If they cannot drive they have to "obey." This is treating women as though they are children. They cannot make decisions for themselves.  You know, I never even thought of the rule that a woman could drive with a mahram present.  When my husband was hurt, he could not drive for nearly 3 months.  I had to carry him up and down stairs to the bathroom. I could not live the Islamic life that the fatwa posted says I have to.    neither could I, as a male, or my wife. That fatwa was an extreme position by Saudi clerics that has subtones of "male control" in the name of faith written all over it. As a man, I do not want a helpless automaton to mother my children. Children should be raised by the best.

As salamu Alaikum

Thanks for informing me that those of us who oppose such ideas are "controled children who do cannot make any decisions". I wonder how the women at the time of the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa Sallam) felt when these statements were made...... maybe they did not have a mind of their own - as I don't see any Hadith opposing such views by anyone even, the wives of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam)

I would appreciate some Hadith even weak ones to change my views and opinions. I need help -real help to become a real woman- as I am a "helpless automaton" in a woman's body because I of my belief.

Peace

Alwardah wrote: Andalus wrote: Angela wrote: Hayfa wrote: Angela, you are right about the safety factor. We are all less safe when we are alone. Crime is about opportunity as well as motive. That is why people break into homes with women alone and rape them. It is irritating as driving is a skill. They don't even say the women can drive with a mahram with them. So it is stricly about "control". If they cannot drive they have to "obey." This is treating women as though they are children. They cannot make decisions for themselves.  You know, I never even thought of the rule that a woman could drive with a mahram present.  When my husband was hurt, he could not drive for nearly 3 months.  I had to carry him up and down stairs to the bathroom. I could not live the Islamic life that the fatwa posted says I have to.    neither could I, as a male, or my wife. That fatwa was an extreme position by Saudi clerics that has subtones of "male control" in the name of faith written all over it. As a man, I do not want a helpless automaton to mother my children. Children should be raised by the best.     As salamu Alaikum Thanks for informing me that those of us who oppose such ideas are "controled children who do cannot make any decisions". I wonder how the women at the time of the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa Sallam) felt when these statements were made...... maybe they did not have a mind of their own - as I don't see any Hadith opposing such views by anyone even, the wives of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam)

supposition. the fatwa, nor my opinion, does not conflict with what the Sahaba practiced or how the wives felt. That is a strawman.

The issue is traveling distance, not the medium for traveling. The problem that the Saudi clerics have with the medium is cultural (though they hide behind deen), not religous. The notion that it (the driving) could lead to some other things that "might" be bad is poor logic and pure rubbish. They take that principle to extremes that suit them. Lets destroy grapes and wipe them out..why not? If we follow the poor reasoning in the fatwa, then we should destroy grapes, because someone might make wine.

I would appreciate some Hadith even weak ones to change my views and opinions. I need help -real help to become a real woman- as I am a "helpless automaton" in a woman's body because I of my belief. Peace

I would appreciate some hadith, even weak hadith, that tell us a women is not allowed to use some medium, other than their own two feet, to get from point A to point B. I find it humerous that Saudi clerics are the first to cry foul at the use of "reasoning" in the case of ijtihad, and here they are, when it is convenient, using "reasoning" to make the outlandish claim that it is impermissible for women to drive. Talk about stretching the evidence to fit a conclusion.

The problem with these bin baaz and Co fatwas, is that they are thrown around like they are mainstream, sunni ideals, and when non-believers read them, they think that the overly rigid life style they proclaim is standard for everyone, scaring them away from Islam. I wish their Q and A site had a clause with "wahabi" or "neosalafi" next to it, or at least be intellectually honest and provide the views from the establshed madhabs.....enough of the other opinions so that Muslims living in the west do not feel they have to make their home like the Kingdom, which is not a "Islamic" paradise. I wonder when these same clerics will issue fatwas about their masters who pay their salaries and fund their dawah and also engage in horse racing, and the wasting of money on "haram" lifestyles. It is like the house is on fire and they want to complain about the TV channel.  

I cannot help you Sr. It is up to you to choose the way you practice your faith. My point is not to change you, I do not engage in sophistry. My point is that your sources are not mainstream, and do not reflect mainstream scholarship, but represent a model used in the Kingdom. This is what I wanted to clarify for the non-believers who come here to learn about Islam. If you feel your life is great, then al hamdullilah. For a woman who wants to drive for the right reasons, al hamdullilah, there is nothing in the deen that states she cannot.

Assalam aleikum

As Salamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu Brother Andalus

Well there are many incidents in the history books that point to the fact that women used camels and donkeys from point A to B but the animal was lead by a male. I am sure you must have read those stories too.

To date I have not found anything on the site or by these clerics that contradict with the Shariah. But what do I know, I am only touching the surface in my search of knowledge, you and the others are the experts.

As a moderator please can you clarify for me the following points:

1.      Is Islamicity Forum an Islamic site reserved for a special group of muslims.

2.      Are the views of only particular scholars accepted

3.      Are the Fatawas from only particular sites accepted.

I need this information to decide whether to continue my membership on this forum.

You know what is ironical last year about this time � actually during the first few days of Ramadan, I left a Yahoo egroup because the moderator kept rejecting the Fatawa I post from Sunnipath and Islam Online but the last straw was when she sent me very derogatory articles on some of these scholars whose Fatawa I used to submit. A year later I am facing the same decision because of similar reasons   but this time it is the other way round. I take Fatawa and knowledge from many websites. I don�t agree with some and agree with some. However I will not accept disrespect to any scholar and loathe being the cause of it. I feel that when we criticise a scholar or cleric as you call them, who quotes from the Glorious Qur'an and Sunnah then we are indirectly or maybe be directly criticising  the noble teachings of the Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam). I will have no part in this. Thanks! May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala forgive us from our ignorance. Ameen!

You are correct where I get my information and how I chose to live it, is my choice.

I am sure I will find a forum that accepts both views - those presented by the Wahabi Clerics and non-Wahabi clerics. I regard both as Sunni scholars and there is lot to learn from both sides.

Till I get a response and decide what to do, I will continue posting in the Kiddies Corner � Let�s try, Daily Hadith and Ayat etc.

Wa Alaikum Salam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

Alwardah wrote: As Salamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu Brother Andalus Well there are many incidents in the history books that point to the fact that women used camels and donkeys from point A to B but the animal was lead by a male. I am sure you must have read those stories too.

What I have read is not proof that a woman cannot drive. The issue has been how far can a woman go before she needs a companion.

I get your point loud and clear. I am not sure whether i should post this here or under "Comments" To date I have not found anything on the site or by these clerics that contradict with the Shariah. But what do I know, I am only touching the surface in my search of knowledge, you and the others are the experts.

This is also a strawman sister. I have never stated that the fatwa was a "contradiction", I stated that the fatwa was extremely weak employing deduction and trying to stretch a principle to such an exaggerated limit that the obvious self bias of the scholars is apparent. I am not an expert, but I know when something does not look right.

My point, once again, is that the view you gave is not the wide view, or the greater view, but is an idea that is strongly upheld in the kingdom, which is lead by an unIslamic monarchy. The larger view is that driving is not prohibited, and there is nothing conclusive in the deen that says so.

As a moderator please can you clarify for me the following points: 1.      Is Islamicity Forum an Islamic site reserved for a special group of muslims. 2.      Are the views of only particular scholars accepted 3.      Are the Fatawas from only particular sites accepted.

 

As a moderator, all views are allowed (within the conext you are asking), but as a participant, I will comment on what I feel needs to be clarified. As a moderator, or as a participant, I have not rejected the fatwas you have posted. I have commented for clarification that these views are not mainstream and I simply added an aditional view held by a wider view in traditional islam that driving is not impermisseble. Something that any sound scholar will include: various views.

I need this information to decide whether to continue my membership on this forum.

Well, no one has stopped you from posting fatwas. If I gave up being moderator, and continued to comment, would it change anything? No. We will probably always disagree. I can handle that. But I cannot sit back while a fatwa goes by that excludes a lot of other information and non-Muslims read it thinking this is the way Islam actually is. I will comment when I think it is needed, but not stop you from posting. In fact, I have, as a particiapnt, let you have your say so and left you be in the past. Never as a moderator have I ever stopped you.

You know what is ironical last year about this time � actually during the first few days of Ramadan, I left a Yahoo egroup because the moderator kept rejecting the Fatawa I post from Sunnipath and Islam Online but the last straw was when she sent me very derogatory articles on some of these scholars whose Fatawa I used to submit. A year later I am facing the same decision because of similar reasons   but this time it is the other way round. I take Fatawa and knowledge from many websites. I don�t agree with some and agree with some. However I will not accept disrespect to any scholar and loathe being the cause of it. I feel that when we criticise a scholar or cleric as you call them, who quotes from the Glorious Qur'an and Sunnah then we are indirectly or maybe be directly criticising  the noble teachings of the Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam). I will have no part in this. Thanks! May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala forgive us from our ignorance. Ameen!

The Shia also quote from the glorious Quran and their idea of the sunnah. This does not make a difference. Some scholars fall out of line with centuries of scholarly work without a solid bases. Islam does not need "novelty", Islam needs solid methodologies for extracting information from the primary texts. If someone wants to follow some particualr Imam who has moved outside this realm, then so be it and I hope they are happy. But when someone takes a fatwa from this scholar which makes me, or my wife, or thousands of other Muslims in the wrong who are following traditional knowledge, then yes Sister, I will challenge it. Not for proving someone wrong, but for the sake of readers understanding the difference, and then it is up to them if they like what they see or do not.

It took me almost a year to figure out I was being fed "neo Salafi" material. I wish someone had pointed it to me so I would at least have had a chance to make up my mind from the beginning.

No one, not even I, have sent anything to you in a derogatory manner. I am sorry if you feel this is engaging in shiekh bashing, I call it engaging in view points and allowing others to make up their minds. 

 

You are correct where I get my information and how I chose to live it, is my choice. I am sure I will find a forum that accepts both views - those presented by the Wahabi Clerics and non-Wahabi clerics. I regard both as Sunni scholars and there is lot to learn from both sides.

I regard Saudi clerics as sunni also, just slightly outside of the norm in terms of fiqh and aqidah.

For me, I will take my knowledge from an appropriate source that has credentials. What are these? Well, Sunnis have their standards, but every person must figure out what their standard is.

Till I get a response and decide what to do, I will continue posting in the Kiddies Corner � Let�s try, Daily Hadith and Ayat etc. Wa Alaikum Salam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

dialogue brings discussion and view points. you cannot expect me to be silent when you put our a fatwah that makes female driving impermissible, as if the fatwa is "the fatwa" and every Muslim should adhere to it. Especially when a non-believer is reading, I will comment, as a participant, and let it be known that such a notion is not strong or even common. I am sorry if you feel as if your fatwas are being rejected. They are not. Insha'Allah, in the future, I will use a different way to comment, and will try and clarify that I am acting as a participant.

assalam aleikum  

PS You do not qualify as a mindless automaton.

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A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
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Can one imagine what would happen if suddenly the Saudi government decreed that tomorrow morning all women of the kingdom could just go out and start driving? You would have mass chaos, not to mention an upside down world. Sometimes Fatawas are made with the understanding of the culture in mind.\

I agree with your post but not that there would suddenly be "mass chaos." I really doubt that. SA is still a conservative society. Just because a "law changed" does not mean that the overall fabric of society is immediately changed.  In Pakistan women can drove. Most do not.

I liken it to de-segregation in the us in the 1950s and 1960s. That is why people were against it. Educated people. Cause well it would "upset everything." We know it did not. The laws changed but the overall culture did not. And we still have a ways to go in this society.

I bet most women in SA will not drive for a long time. Whether it be themselves, family or their culture. In Moslem societies, women are not often alone in general. Or far, far less so then in the west.

It is interesting to watch from afar how it will change.

Hayfa,

That is what I was trying to point out about me and my dear friend.  She's gone wild because of the restrictions put on her life and then freedoms suddenly being given.  She never learned to chose to the right path, it was always forced on her.

I do believe that hadith (not Quran) should be looked at in context, they are not the protect scripture that the Quran is...they are lessons.  However, lessons are sometimes meant for a few and change with situations.

I cannot find any hadith that forbids women from traveling short distances alone.  Nothing that says she cannot ride a horse or a camel.  Now, I do find fatwas that says she can go no more than 88 miles alone.  Or a trip lasting more than 3 days.  I will try to find those again.

Sister, the Wahhabi (Salafi) Sheiks once declared all other Muslims kafir.  Its little wonder that most Sunnis do not trust their judgements.  I would never use a Shia sheiks fatwa on a Sunni site. 

Hadith are subject to vastly different interpretations.  That is why I say that they can be for the time they were given.  These are not Revelations Alwardah. 

Revelation comes directly from God.  Its bound in his Holy books and is not changed.  Hadith are not bound into the Quran.  There are strong hadith and weak hadith. 

With absolutely no disrespect, if the Prophet (pbuh) told one man not to put his camel too closely to the gate of a woman's house.  That doesn't mean that everywhere on earth, men can't put their camels next to the gate of the house.  Perhaps he was just pointing out to the man that the woman has prize flowers growing there and the camel might eat them.  Hadith should be looked at within the realms of circumstance.

Did you see the ridiculous fatwa issued by one site that a woman should breastfeed her male coworkers to make the mahram?  Really...  was the Scholar wrong in that breastfeeding a non relative makes them mahram?  No, he was right, Hadith state this over and over.  However, is it proper to breastfeed a grown man.  NO, absolutely not.  The Hadith is clearly about fostering orphans (babies and toddlers) and making it easier on the family when those children come of age.  Its not meant for adults to get around the rules. 

My biggest issue with the fatwa you posted was the NON-hadith opinions in there.  Since when are boys more valuable than girls.  If you read that fatwa, its what it is saying.  Men are physically stronger than women, that is why they are the protectors of the home.  I won't argue that, but it doesn't make them superior, it just means they have responsibilities.

Saudi Arabia is an Island onto its self as Hayfa has pointed out.  They have gone out of their way to segragate the sexes.  They aren't segragated eslewhere.  In fact in some places, men and women cannot help but be in contact.  In a perfect world, all youth would marry when they became old enough, settle and have families and no one would have sex outside of marriage.  Men would not seek out prostitutes, beat their wives and ignore their husbandly duties.  Women's contributions to the worlds of science, literature, education and medicine would be as respected as their male counterparts and conflicts would be solved in peaceful negotiations between leaders.

Instead, we live in an imperfect world.  In three days, I can be around the world.  In 88 miles, I can get into alot of trouble.  At home, I could have a lover visit while my husband is at work.  Yet, I was taught morals and making good choices.  I traveled 2200 miles for one week to visit friends and family.  Alone.  I didn't get molested, beaten or robbed.  I didn't commit any sins.  (Well, I did tell my father to take a "chill pill" and leave me be when I was packing boxes and he felt I wasn't doing it right) In short, the chaperon is nice, but its not always necessary or convenient. 

Its not about having a minder all the time...its about making the right choices.  Hijab is about modesty, not about how little of your eyes are showing.  Mahrams are about safety and about who you can and cannot marry.  They are not about control.  Scholars are about advice, they are not the law. 

Book 41, Number 4994:

Book 034, Number 6462: