S. Korean hostages beaten for Christ

I believe that the use of violence is never justified

So if a robber breaks into your house with the intent to harm you you simply lay down your life?

How do you define 'logical'?

logical is anything that encompasses common sense and/or rational decisions that involve critical thinking.

Giving money to charities for example may be a 'safer' way, but often there is a lot of controversy about how much of that cash gets there.

This is why you investigate humanitarian groups and track your money and make sure that, that money reaches your goal.

To me Tom123 it sounds like christian missionaries thrive off the possibility of death because they know that because they are doing "God's work" they would be rewarded with paradise. To me that is innately a selfish motive to begin with. For one, if you go into a situation knowing the possibility that death may be eminent what is the most common sense thing to do? Anyway I think if christians wish to do missionary work they can do it safely.

Sawtul Khilafah wrote: Simple question Tom: If they were just "spreading the message of Christ" why didnt they do so in their own country where over 70% are not christians!!??? If they just wanted to help people as you claim, why didnt they go to one of many countries in Africa where children are starving to death in their thousands, more so than in Afghanistan?? The answer to both questions is that they were part of America's Crusade. Appart from the secret activities which they may well have been involved in, they were trying to convert poor Afghans to Christianity by offering them food and material things in order to make America's occupation of Afghanistan easier by increasing support for Crusader style "Christianity". I also advise you to go to this thread: http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9806& ; ;PN=2 watch the video that was posted and also watch the video that I posted on that very same thread to see the true face of these "Christian" missionaries.

   Sawtul Khilafah,

   I read your post and viewed both videos on the link. Neither of them had ANYTHING to do with the South Koreans, the 1st showed a controversial kids camp (more on that below) in USA, the second a short interview with a pastor of a church in USA who used drugs and cheated on his wife.

   Neither of these videos had absolutely anything in common with the South Korean aid workers so why you posted them in reply to my thread I don't know.

  If you bothered to even read the BBC article I posted, in it you have hopefully found that South Korean missionaries and aid workers operate in both South Korea and parts of Africa, as well as North America, Asia, the Middle East.

   I have not found anything in the article or other sources saying that these aid workers were supportive of the US war in Afghanistan.

   I do oppose the so-called 'Christian Coalition' and the 'religious right' and agree with you that what they are preaching is 'Crusader Christianity'- a twisted, perverted, imperialist misinterpretation of the Gospel.

   About the camp, I haven't seen the whole movie so I don't know. If these kids are being taught to place Christ above everything else and to reject secularism and materialism, then I support the camp. If they are mixing Christianity with the agenda of the 'right-wing', then it is sickening and wrong. I haven't seen the whole movie so I can't comment. It was a bit disturbing to see these kids dressed up in military uniforms, if they are taught violence that is wrong. If they are being taught to be soldiers in the way that the Bible calls on Christians to be soldiers, then it is different. I haven't seen the whole documentary so I'm not going to comment. I have seen very similar images of Palestinian kids being brainwashed to hate Jews, and unlike with the kids camp it is known that they are trained to glorify violence.

   Either way, the link and attached videos had absolutely nothing to do with the South Korean hostages. You have not proved that they were doing any of the evil things you accuse them of.

   Cristo Vive!
       - Tomasz

Personally I pray that if I was in a situation like that, God would give me the courage not to hate him or try to hurt him or fight him and do exactly what you just said, adding I would hope to be telling him about Jesus and His love and grace as I was being bludgeoned to death or dismemembered.

I don't know whether to laugh or take this seriously. I guess cause I'm from Los Angeles we have a different frame of mind here when it comes to defending your household. I know if it was me the intruder would not be in this world anymore. I don't think someone with the intent to harm you would want to hear about Jesus. In my city there have been people who have begged for their life and still was murdered. Jesus was no wimp and neither should you be one IMHO.

If he was going to attack my wife or kids (I'm single so this is a hypothetical scenario) I would try to get between them and him and would gladly take his blows in order that they might escape.

How heroic, but you're no good to your family if you're dead. Normally in these times most intruders don't give out "blows" but one shot from a hand gun so how good are you if an intruder pulls out a gun and kills you on the first hit? I'm sure in this scenario your family wouldn't have time to make it out the door.

OK, but common sense to you may be something different than it is to someone else.

Tell me from what I stated about logical thinkin do you disagree with?

 I don't think any missionary goes abroad for the sole purpose of getting himself/herself killed. I know I didn't. We want to serve Jesus, and He says that we do so by helping the poor and by preaching the Gospel. If we get killed doing this, praise God. If we don't get killed, praise God.
   You say that missionary work should be done safely, yet don't soldiers, police officers and firefighters take risks? So are they wrong to do so?
   The difference is that when we take risks for Christ, we do it to serve Him instead of doing it to get a paycheck. As a Christian, I have no reason to fear dying.

Most Jews, Muslims, and Christians are inherently selfish (not to say its ultimately bad) because we do things for God to get a reward. The idea of matyrdom and obtaining paradise is attractive and especially when scholars indicate to their followers that God will forgive you for your sin if you do this or that. Or, God will reward you because of doing this or that. Religious acts which have no intrinsic value, are done solely for the purpose of self fulfilment.

Tom123 wrote:    If you bothered to even read the BBC article I posted, in it you have hopefully found that South Korean missionaries and aid workers operate in both South Korea and parts of Africa, as well as North America, Asia, the Middle East.

I did read it. It QUOTED the Saemmul Church as saying that they were there to help people, and of course THEY would say that.

It also said that there were missionaries in Africa and Middle-east, but didnt say they were "helping people" there, but trying to convert.

Now allow me to ask the question again. Why did these missionaries go to Afghanistan to "help people" when they could have gone to many other countries where people are suffering?

Well because they were trying to convert people, and of course they would "help" poor people in order to win them over and convert them. (didnt Satan try to trick Jesus in that way according to the Bible?) So they were there just to convert and of course you cant convert many people to "christianity" without offering them worldly materials (that's Satan's old trick).

If they were sincere they would have tried to convert their own people first, the great marority of whom are NOT christians. Why travel all the way to a country in the middle of a war and preach "christianity"?

And why was the Korean Government so worried about them and was willing to actually negotiate with the Taliban for them?

Because S.Korea has joined America's Crusade and sent troops to Afghanistan (which proves they are part of a Crusade, why else would they send troops to fight the Taliban when the Taliban had never done anything to them and did not even "threaten their interests") and so these hostages were obviously part of the Crusade (actually a very important part of it).