March May 1st For Immigrant Rights |
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semar
Senior Member Male Islam Joined: 11 March 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1830 |
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Peace, We have heard many complains about "outsourcing". Without "their cheap labor" our products wil be out of the competitions, we can not export our products, outsourcing even going crazier. |
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Salam/Peace,
Semar "We are people who do not eat until we are hungry and do not eat to our fill." (Prophet Muhammad PBUH) "1/3 of your stomach for food, 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air" |
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Mishmish
Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1694 |
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I didn't say invaders, I said intruders. Big difference. I agree that African Americans have been mistreated and forced against their will to come here. That is why in my previous posts I mentioned the Voting Rights Act which FINALLY allowed black people to vote, only 40 years ago. Not very long, 40 years.... Look, since the arrival of the first Europeans to this continent there has been exclusionists. Based on religion, ethnicity, race, and now documentation. But the truth is, the land belongs to God and whoever is meant to live here, will live here. I just don't believe that someone whose great-great grandfather came over here on a ship and killed a few Indians to live here has the right to say that anyone else should not have that same right. |
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It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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Apex
Newbie Joined: 29 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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So with that said let any immigrants from any country come live here.....BTW such a philsoophy already exist just ask India and China.....By the way, how can immigrants from post Anglo American settlement be considered intruders if their goals (much like the immigrants now) are to have a better life? In your case since historically the early settlers were intruding then its ok for everybody else to intrude since this is apart of history....Honestly that is crappy logic. I admit what happen to the Native peoples was horrible history however in modern times you have to see the big picture. Funny how you guys mentioned various facts but never addressed my facts about Mexico. Funny, how the Muslim world portrays our country as negative when we give handouts all the time to immigrants. We pay for their healthcare, well, excuse me taxpayers do. We pay into social security but illegal immigrants don't but apparently according to you MM that is ok since historically we are all invaders. did you know in 2002 from the study of the Census Bureau data thyat households headed by illegal immigrants have used $10 billion dollars more in government services than they paid in taxes in 2002? What you are asking for MM is blanket amnesty which would triple such to approximately over $29 billion. The sad part from this truth is that my kids will not have Social Security. By the time I am of age I will not have social security, let me change that I'd probably get it just before it runs out. Here is another truth: "According to the study, the primary reason illegal immigrants create a federal deficit is that low education levels lead to low incomes and low tax payments." See http://cbs4denver.com/topstories/local_story_122001401.html The reason immigrants are so-called paying taxes is because they are using a SSN which is valid however the IRS does not always catch individuals using fraud SSN numbers. Here is another truth: >>>>This year SSA sent out over 750,000 letters to employers of approximately seven million workers whose names did not match the SSN provided.2 Employees who cannot provide a credible reason for the mismatch either voluntarily seek employment elsewhere or are terminated. Unfortunately, the SSA has no legal authority to levy fines and penalties against either employees who fraudulently obtain a SSN or against employers who repeatedly submit large numbers of wage reports with incorrect SSNs. They must rely on the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to do so, and audits have revealed this rarely happens.3<<<< http://www.cis.org/articles/2002/back1202.html |
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Mishmish
Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1694 |
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We're not talking history about theft of land from the Native Americans. Please see the article link posted earlier. This is still occuring. Illegal immigrants cannot get Medicaid, Medicare, or welfare. Legal Immigrants are eligible for some programs, but these have been severely curtailed since the 1996 welfare reform law. Our country has spent $278,000,000 on the Iraqi war. We send approximately five billion dollars a year in aid to Israel. The oil companies in this country receive approximately $15 billion in tax breaks. I don't see how amnesty for these people could be anymore of a tax burden than any of the above. I am an American citizen and I pay taxes. I would like to choose where my tax dollars go, but I don't get to. I would much rather give $15 billion to hard working illegals in order for them to become citizens than to give it to the ultra rich oil companies. Or to Israelis who are an oppressive, illegal, occupying military force. Or to a war based on lies, that I absolutely do not now nor ever agreed with. You may say this is illogical, but it is my logic.
Edited by Mishmish |
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It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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Apex
Newbie Joined: 29 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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Well that is the paradox of our society I'll give that to you...But you are wrong...Illegal immigrants do get benefits look at the links that I have used. Again, at the hospital I worked Illegal immigrants not only get Medical care as well as other health benefits they also get educational benefits and not to mention social security. You are basically saying you'd take the lesser evil which can be just as costly as the Iraq war. I say that is CAN be because on a gradual basis our defecit would be greater again look at the website http://cbs4denver.com/topstories/local_story_122001401.html Yes you'd rather be in the hole for illegals rather than the other evils like going to War however if you choose the latter, your kids and their kids will suffer social setbacks due to your favortism of illegal immigrants. Yes that is your logic, perhaps that is the Muslim thought I guess. |
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amanzar
Newbie Joined: 01 May 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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This country is built on principles. Unfortunately the principles are not always 100% followed, but that's no reason to break more. There is a set of rules for immigrants to obtain equality here, and those rules are for everyone -- including the immigrants -- benefit. I don't understand why there's even a debate over this. You break rules, there are consequences . . . and if there weren't, then there's no point in having rules to begin with. I welcome immigrants. But some should not get special treatment over others -- they should all follow the rules. And you guys need to relax. This is getting a bit hostile. . It's a difference of opinion, which is something everyone is entitled to. |
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Apex
Newbie Joined: 29 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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I'm good, I just don't like it when so-called pro illegal immigrant arguers make it a point to use history as an excuse for blanket amnesty. To me that doesn't make sense. I'm with you aman I welcome immigrants who follow the rules. I have friends whose relative have waited years but I've served immigrants with no papers yet they get Social Security! It's unfair because my children will not get social security. It's unfair because a bunch of people from various countries come in and can obtain benefits that American born citizens don't get. Shall I mention business loans etc? I'm talking about the fairness in following the law and as you say Aman, not always people follow them.....
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amanzar
Newbie Joined: 01 May 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Mishmish had very valid points, and I completely understand and respect her position. That doesn't mean I agree with it. No need for hostility, we're all on the same team. And it's always great to hear everyone's opinion, no? That's why I'm here in the first place. It's how we all learn. |
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