Reason why there are no homosexuals inIsl

"Salams All,Lets not forget if one converts to Al-Islam all his past sins are forgiven.I can understand if we (people are unable to forgive)If we cant forgive others how can we ourselves ask Allah to forgive us?Allah Knows Best."

So the best thing is to wait until you are your death bed to convert?

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Shasta'sAunt wrote:

"Incidentally, nobody has said that the Quran orders muslims to kill homosexuals. I don't know where you got the idea someone had....or was that just another piece of obfuscation from yourself?

Now you are saying that, under Islam, homosexuals are to be punished as adulterers. Are you saying that adulterers are not to be punished by death?"

Didn't you write this:

"And now we can say that this muslim preacher is a true follower of Islam, at least in the matter of homosexual practice. Islam orders the death penalty for homosexuals.

And since Islam orders it, muslims must want it, and do their best to bring about the necessary conditions to enforce it.........."

The Quran is Islam.

"What a hotch-potch of utter confusion! One says this, another says that."

Mock the madhabs all you want but not one called for the death of homosexuals. As for punishment in The Quran for adultery:

24:2 (Y. Ali) The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

What is the punishment in the Bible for adultery?

Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."

Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."

Leviticus 21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire."

What was the Jewish view:

"Idolatry, murder, andgilluy 'arayot (which comprises both incest and adultery) are three crimes never to be committed under any circumstances, and a man should sacrifice his life rather than commit them (Sanh. 74a). This was the decision of the rabbis at the meeting at Lydda, during the Hadrianic Revolt (see Graetz, "History of the Jews," ii. 422-424.) Thus law and morality went hand in hand to prevent the commission of the crime. For those, however, who were deaf to warnings of law and reason, the punishment of death was ordained. Both the guilty wife and her paramour were put to death (Deut. xxii. 22).

Unlawful intercourse with a woman betrothed to a man was adultery, because the betrothed woman was deemed as inviolable as the married woman. The punishment for this crime was stoning to death at the place of public execution (Deut. xxii. 24). The punishment for Adultery according to the Mishnah (Sanh. xi. 1) was strangulation; the rabbinical theory being that wherever the death penalty was mentioned in the Bible, without any specific statement of the manner of its infliction, strangulation was meant (Sifra, Ḳedoshim, 4, 9).

The priest's daughter who committed Adultery was burned to death, according to the rabbinical interpretation of the text in Lev. xxi. 9 (Sanh. 66b), and her paramour was strangled (Maimonides, "Yad ha-Ḥazaḳah, Issure Biah," iii. 3). When the crime is committed with a bondmaid betrothed to a man, it is not Adultery technically, because the woman is not free, and the death penalty is not inflicted, but as she has a quasi-marital status, she and her paramour are scourged (Lev. xix. 20). Ibn Ezra (ad loc.) takes the view that this case refers to the Hebrew maiden who has been sold by her father and who is intended to be the bride of her master or of his son, but who is not yet betrothed; for the betrothal would have made her free ipso facto."

So once again the Jewish and Christians call for death, while Islam calls for 100 lashes. 100 lashes may be a severe punishment but at least it's not stoning to death, strangulation until death, or being burned alive....

"And yes, I would say that your last two paragaphs are interesting, as you say. Interesting as a piece of deception, sadly. Christians do not ignore the fact, as you falsely claim, that God, under the terms of the Mosaic covenant with Israel, commands the death penalty for those who engage in homosexual activity. But the New Covenant is not a theocracy as the Old Covenant was (and as Islam claims to be). If I see someone commit a crime, do I arrest him and bring him to the church to be tried, convicted and sentenced? No, I report him to the police, who will refer him to the judiciary because the church has no authority to deal with criminals in terms of civil or criminal law. It is the state which deals with this. Individuals, now or in the past, who have tried to accord the church this level of authority, are in serious error."

Where or when did Jesus tell people to forget everything that God had told them before? I guess the Old Testament is fine for pointing out what may or may not be a prophesy of Jesus, but any commands from God or any of that God is One stuff not so much..... It must be nice to get to pick and choose what you want to believe: we'll just take the easy stuff with lot's of sinning but no real punishment please....

So, Shasta'sAunt, the Quran is Islam. And nothing else is Islam? Anything not found in the Quran cannot be Islam? Interesting.....

Now, I am not "mocking the madhabs". You are. In your earlier post you quoted a summary which pointed out that the Hanafi school "allowed" stoning for a 2nd offence, the Shafii school stipulated stoning for married people guilty of homosexual practice, and the Maliki and Jafari schools stipulated the same penalty as for adultery (without mentioning what that penalty was).------------But now you claim that "not one called for the death of homosexuals." How strange.

Now we come to the quranic penalty for adultery, which you say is the same for homosexual practice. Well, it depends what Quran you are reading. It cannot be the same one that Umar originally knew. As he points out in Sahih Bukhari vol.8 book82 no.817, the verse of the Rajam had gone missing from the Quran, quite unaccountably apparently, but he makes it crystal clear that it had been revealed by Allah, and recited as part of the Quran, and that stoning was indeed the punishment for adulterers, and that muslims should never forget it, even if they could no longer find that verse in the Quran. Seems like some muslims have not forgotten it......

You can persist with your misinformation that "christians call for the death of homosexuals" as long as you like. But I will come back to that later, as well as deal with your other falsifications regarding the Holy Faith.

But for now, can you please inform me where the Quran stipulates 100 lashes for homosexuals (bearing in mind you said that the Quran is Islam)? Failing that, would you be so good as to inform me where the Quran says that the punishment of homosexuals is to be the same as adulterers (again bearing in mind what you said about the Quran being Islam)?

Please bear in mind also, that I am only trying to get at the truth of what Islam says on the issue

Edited by Doo-bop - 10 April 2009 at 8:43am

"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" - John the Baptizer (John 1:29)

As Salamu Alaikum Sister Shasta'sAunt.Allah tells us that if we hide the sins of our brother He will hide our sins:be Merciful to us."Mashallah"

Well Serv, you certainly didn't come up the Liffey in a bubble.

Intellek shool and a comedian. lol You're way above me. I'm thick as poundies, as we say 'ere.

Says you're in US. Are you from there originally ?

Why didn't he marry ? The court wants to know.