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Reason why there are no homosexuals inIsl
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Nur_Ilahi View Drop Down
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Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

"Salams All,Lets not forget if one converts to Al-Islam all his past sins are forgiven.I can understand if we (people are unable to forgive)If we cant forgive others how can we ourselves ask Allah to forgive us?Allah Knows Best."
 
So the best thing is to wait until you are your death bed to convert? 
 
You are equating God with a human. The reason being Christianity is all about Jesus the human god.
 
However God Almighty - The Creator of the whole universe, is of course nothing like the Creations. He is Most Compassionate, Most Merciful, Most Forgiving. Maybe on the deathbed it may be too late. How are you going to say your shahadah, when you cannot even lift up your tongue, and no one is able to hear you?
 
But then still Allah is Most Knowing, Most Merciful. It is up to Him to decide.
 
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Shasta'sAunt wrote:-
 
"Under Islamic law criminals are punished according to their own religion or manmade laws if they were pagans. Only Muslims are punished under Islamic law.-----------So, let's see if we can get this straight (pardon the pun)......you are claiming that Christianity calls for the execution of homosexuals, and you cannot point to any punishment at all for homosexuals under Islam (bearing in mind that you said that the Quran is Islam),  which means that, if they listen to you, when we are all living happily ever after under Islamic law, christian homosexuals will get killed," 
But you said that Christianity doesn't call for the death penalty for homosexuals so why would they be killed. Of course you'd have to come up with some actual proof from the scriptures..."
 
---------I know that Christianity does not call for the death penalty for homosexuals, but according to you it does, and if you care to read what I said which was "if they listen to you", then christian homosexuals will be killed but muslim ones won't be
 
"I am curious as to why this makes you so angry? A little homophobic perhaps? Not to worry, the Bible orders their death so I guess you chose the right religion."
 
-----------Then you are curious about the wrong thing.  I am sad at this tragic situation. 
 
Anjem Choudary says homosexuals should be stoned to death. 
 
Other muslims say they should be thrown off the top of a mountain. 
 
You seem to be saying they should receive 100 lashes. 
 
Mansoor-ali seemed to be saying Islam prescribed the death penalty.
 
The Quran says nothing on the subject of punishing homosexuals. 
Or if it does, you have provided no proof whatsoever. 
You have said that all cases of non-marital sex are to be punished.  Now prove that the Quran says this
 
 


Edited by Doo-bop - 13 April 2009 at 3:01am
"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" - John the Baptizer (John 1:29)
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Shasta'sAunt View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Doo-bop Doo-bop wrote:

Shasta'sAunt wrote:-
 
"Under Islamic law criminals are punished according to their own religion or manmade laws if they were pagans. Only Muslims are punished under Islamic law.-----------So, let's see if we can get this straight (pardon the pun)......you are claiming that Christianity calls for the execution of homosexuals, and you cannot point to any punishment at all for homosexuals under Islam (bearing in mind that you said that the Quran is Islam),  which means that, if they listen to you, when we are all living happily ever after under Islamic law, christian homosexuals will get killed," 
But you said that Christianity doesn't call for the death penalty for homosexuals so why would they be killed. Of course you'd have to come up with some actual proof from the scriptures..."
 
---------I know that Christianity does not call for the death penalty for homosexuals, but according to you it does, and if you care to read what I said which was "if they listen to you", then christian homosexuals will be killed but muslim ones won't be
 
"I am curious as to why this makes you so angry? A little homophobic perhaps? Not to worry, the Bible orders their death so I guess you chose the right religion."
 
-----------Then you are curious about the wrong thing.  I am sad at this tragic situation. 
 
Anjem Choudary says homosexuals should be stoned to death. 
 
Other muslims say they should be thrown off the top of a mountain. 
 
You seem to be saying they should receive 100 lashes. 
 
Mansoor-ali seemed to be saying Islam prescribed the death penalty.
 
The Quran says nothing on the subject of punishing homosexuals. 
Or if it does, you have provided no proof whatsoever. 
You have said that all cases of non-marital sex are to be punished.  Now prove that the Quran says this
 
 
 
Apparently some people just don't understand what non-marital sex is. This really goes a long way toward explaining why sooooooo many people who claim to be religious are partaking. But for the purpose of s-p-e-l-l-i-n-g it out for you, Islamically anyone, homo, hetero, or bisexual who engages in non-marital or extramarital sex, is subject to the punishment prescribed in The Quran.
 
24:2 (Y. Ali) The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
 
Once again, I stated many, many posts ago that The Quran has no specific punishment just for homosexuals, but rather they are treated like anyone else who engages in non-marital or extra-marital sex.
 
I'm really not sure why it's so difficult for you to comprehend what I am writing.
 
I see you are make a clear distinction between what Christianity calls for and what the Bible calls for. Interesting..... However, I am not personally responsible for calling for anyone's death. It is the practice of Islam to judge each person according to their own religious, or lack thereof, beliefs. This should be a comfort to those of you who profess that Islamic law is so hideous and inhumane. This is where the leniency of Christianity would come in handy, but the thing about Islamic law is that there has to be actual scriptural proof of the punishment or lack of.
 
Anyway, I showed you my proof, now it's your turn to bring forth the words of Jesus regarding homosexuality. I'm still waiting.
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Doo-bop View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

Originally posted by Doo-bop Doo-bop wrote:

Shasta'sAunt wrote:-
 
"Under Islamic law criminals are punished according to their own religion or manmade laws if they were pagans. Only Muslims are punished under Islamic law.-----------So, let's see if we can get this straight (pardon the pun)......you are claiming that Christianity calls for the execution of homosexuals, and you cannot point to any punishment at all for homosexuals under Islam (bearing in mind that you said that the Quran is Islam),  which means that, if they listen to you, when we are all living happily ever after under Islamic law, christian homosexuals will get killed," 
But you said that Christianity doesn't call for the death penalty for homosexuals so why would they be killed. Of course you'd have to come up with some actual proof from the scriptures..."
 
---------I know that Christianity does not call for the death penalty for homosexuals, but according to you it does, and if you care to read what I said which was "if they listen to you", then christian homosexuals will be killed but muslim ones won't be
 
"I am curious as to why this makes you so angry? A little homophobic perhaps? Not to worry, the Bible orders their death so I guess you chose the right religion."
 
-----------Then you are curious about the wrong thing.  I am sad at this tragic situation. 
 
Anjem Choudary says homosexuals should be stoned to death. 
 
Other muslims say they should be thrown off the top of a mountain. 
 
You seem to be saying they should receive 100 lashes. 
 
Mansoor-ali seemed to be saying Islam prescribed the death penalty.
 
The Quran says nothing on the subject of punishing homosexuals. 
Or if it does, you have provided no proof whatsoever. 
You have said that all cases of non-marital sex are to be punished.  Now prove that the Quran says this
 
 
 
Apparently some people just don't understand what non-marital sex is. This really goes a long way toward explaining why sooooooo many people who claim to be religious are partaking. But for the purpose of s-p-e-l-l-i-n-g it out for you, Islamically anyone, homo, hetero, or bisexual who engages in non-marital or extramarital sex, is subject to the punishment prescribed in The Quran.
 
24:2 (Y. Ali) The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
 
Once again, I stated many, many posts ago that The Quran has no specific punishment just for homosexuals, but rather they are treated like anyone else who engages in non-marital or extra-marital sex.
 
I'm really not sure why it's so difficult for you to comprehend what I am writing.
 
I see you are make a clear distinction between what Christianity calls for and what the Bible calls for. Interesting..... However, I am not personally responsible for calling for anyone's death. It is the practice of Islam to judge each person according to their own religious, or lack thereof, beliefs. This should be a comfort to those of you who profess that Islamic law is so hideous and inhumane. This is where the leniency of Christianity would come in handy, but the thing about Islamic law is that there has to be actual scriptural proof of the punishment or lack of.
 
Anyway, I showed you my proof, now it's your turn to bring forth the words of Jesus regarding homosexuality. I'm still waiting.
 
So still no proof of what you are saying.  The verse you quoted in no way relates to homosexuality, as anyone reading it can see. 
 
The verse clearly relates to immoral sexual sin between a man and a woman.  That's what it says.  It's a woman and a man who are guilty, not a man and a man.  That's why it says flog each of them with a hundred stripes,  because it is both of them, the man and the woman, who are involved.  You are saying that it relates to all pre-/non-/extra-marital sex.  But it does not.  This verse relates to sexual sin between a man and a woman.
 
No, I'm afraid that there is no punishment whatsoever for homosexual conduct in the Quran.  Your assertion that homosexuals are to be punished in the same way as men and women guilty of adultery or fornication is --- pure supposition, you have no basis for saying this.  How can a legal system be based on supposition and assumption?  A legal system must be based on established, agreed articles of law, otherwise we just have confusion. That is why all the punishments relating to homosexuality are to be found in the hadith and madhab.  Mere men had to make it up, because Allah did not mention it.
 
But then, isn't it the same thing for your daily prayer schedule?  Am I not right in saying that your daily prayer x5 schedule is likewise not found in the Quran?
 
 There was no such confusion when God gave his law on punishment for homosexuality to Moses for the nation of Israel.  There was similarly no such confusion when the New Covenant of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was established, there being no law on punishment (by human hand)for anything in this (final) covenant, since it is not a legal system. 
 
 


Edited by Doo-bop - 14 April 2009 at 5:08am
"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" - John the Baptizer (John 1:29)
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Nur wrote:
You are equating God with a human. The reason being Christianity is all about Jesus the human god.
 
 
You know Nur, I think this is a big crux of things.. attributing human 'ideas' or 'ideals' to God.. it is fascinating..
 
Have you ever heard of Yellowstone, it is a beautiful national park in the US. The interesting thing is that under it is a giant caldera-volcano.. biggest in the world I beleive. And when it next erupts it will take a good potion of the western US with it. Many, many people will die. Such distructive force... who is in charge?? To me God is most beyond any of us. And we want to 'place upon' God the likeness of us. Having a 'son' 'giving up' that son, etc. etc.  Fascinating..
 
Whne I first started learning about Taosim as part of martial arts 17 years ago.. one line struck me in a reading.. we arebut a speck of dust in the cosmos.. how true it is.. 
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Edited by Servetus - 15 April 2009 at 12:04pm
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Originally posted by Doo-bop Doo-bop wrote:



[Quote] 
So still no proof of what you are saying.  The verse you quoted in no way relates to homosexuality, as anyone reading it can see. 
 
The verse clearly relates to immoral sexual sin between a man and a woman.  That's what it says.  It's a woman and a man who are guilty, not a man and a man.  That's why it says flog each of them with a hundred stripes,  because it is both of them, the man and the woman, who are involved.  You are saying that it relates to all pre-/non-/extra-marital sex.  But it does not.  This verse relates to sexual sin between a man and a woman.


The verse talks of Fornication. . . . . according to the dictionary:

BTW - FYI Shasta & I did not come up with the meaning of fornication (niether did other muslims)

for⋅ni⋅ca⋅tion

   /ˌfɔrnɪˈkeɪʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fawr-ni-key-shuhn] Show IPA
�noun
1. voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other.

In case u didnt notice:  it does not mention sexual orientation. ANY SEXUAL ACT B/W UNMARRIED PERSONS IS FORNICATION.

You are having difficulty in understanding something that Shasta seems to have repeated more than twice here. Lets make it simpler, and repeat once again, shall we?

Homosexuality = Fornication. (by definition)

So what does the Qur'an say about Fornicators? I think Shasta already answered that question.

Summary: (Qur'an/Islam forbids, prohibits, bans, discourages Fornication. There is punishment for Fornication in the Qur'an. Homosexuality is fornication)

 
Unless ofcourse, you disagree that Homosexuality falls under the category of fornication. Do you?




Edited by Chrysalis - 15 April 2009 at 9:10am
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Salaams Chrysalis:

This is another "at this point" threads, where anyone reading, except one apparently, has it figured out that a fornicator is a fornicator, and I am just gonna stop. 

It is interesting to note that this thread started out with Christians raging because a Muslim called for the death of homosexuals and now a Christian is raging because Islam doesn't call for the death of homosexuals. A very telling thread, indeed.
 
Of course, I also find it interesting that Jesus Christ abolished all punishment for all crime, that would explain a lot..... however I just can't seem to remember Jesus saying this.

 



Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 15 April 2009 at 11:37am
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
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