comparative studies

AhmadJoyia wrote: Caringheart wrote: Where Muhammad (or the qur'an, or islam) teaches that it is ok to stone to death a woman for adultery,Yshwe (known as Jesus) teaches exactly the opposite. IMHO, there are no verses in Quran that teaches it is ok to stone to death a woman for adultery! You should provide your evidence from Quran, if you think otherwise! Hopefully, your distorted ideas about Islam may get corrected. Best regards.

Greetings AhmadJoyia,
The qur'an says:

24:2 "The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment."

so, 100 lashes, which is not the same as stoning.
The hadith do speak of stoning for adultery.

and there is this:

According to Umar (Muhammad's companion and Islam's second caliph) "[Allah] sent down the Book (Quran) upon him (Muhamad), and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him."  Umar went on to insist that "Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah's Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or if there is pregnancy, or a confession." (Muslim 17:4194)

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: 'Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, "We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book," and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession." Sufyan added, "I have memorized this narration in this way." 'Umar added, "Surely Allah's Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him." - Sahih al-Bukhari, 8:82:816, Sahih Muslim, 17:4194

According to a strong tradition (found in Sunan ibn Majah, Book of Nikah, Hadith no. 1934), Aisha also recalled the verse that prescribed the death penalty, rajm, for adulterers.  It was written on a palm leaf that was in her home following Muhammad's death, that apparently, according to Aisha, got eaten by a goat.

Apparently this verse did not make it into the final collection of the qur'an that was put together, though both Aisha and Umar were aware of its existence, and aware of the fact that Muhammad put it into practice himself.

No matter how you look at it... qur'an, hadith of Muhammad, or the recordings of Muhammad's enacted punishments...
  it is not the same as Yshwe taught.

asalaam and blessings to you,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 09 December 2015 at 9:52pm

Where Muhammad (or the qur'an, or islam) teaches that it is ok to stone to death a woman for adultery,
Yshwe (known as Jesus) teaches exactly the opposite.

8 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.

² And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

³ And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

⁴ They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

⁵ Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

⁶ This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

⁷ So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

⁸ And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

⁹ And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

¹⁰ When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

¹¹ She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

(as recorded in the book of John, chapter 8)

How can a muslim claim to respect Yshwe when their leader, Muhammad, teaches the opposite of what Yshwe came to teach?

Edited by Caringheart - 10 December 2015 at 3:33pm

Abu Loren wrote: AhmadJoyia wrote:       Dear Bro Abu Loren: I am really sorry to say that I am not convinced with your evidence of Tafseer that these verses are talking about those 'People of the Book' who had converted to Islam. Simply because after conversion they did not remain Christians or Jews. They all became Muslims and one can't expect Quran would address them yet as the 'People of the Book'. In the Qur'an the people of the book are only Jews and the Christians because they followed the Bible. But those people who have converted to Islam are referred to as people of the book as well to differentiate them.

Those who have converted to Islam, are called Muslims; no discrimination or distinction is required within Muslims as they become part of one Uma. Thus, when Quran specifically admonishes the 'People of the Book' for example, for killing their past Prophets or not adhering to the Word of God etc., do you think that those who had become Muslims among them, deserve such a treatment? Thus, my brother it is time to make correction in your understanding of Quran, otherwise, you need to provide a solid evidence to support your theory? May Allah guide us to the right path. Ameen!

AhmadJoyia wrote:       Dear Bro Abu Loren: I am really sorry to say that I am not convinced with your evidence of Tafseer that these verses are talking about those 'People of the Book' who had converted to Islam. Simply because after conversion they did not remain Christians or Jews. They all became Muslims and one can't expect Quran would address them yet as the 'People of the Book'.

In the Qur'an the people of the book are only Jews and the Christians because they followed the Bible. But those people who have converted to Islam are referred to as people of the book as well to differentiate them.