I think they need to lay off the drugs.

PCP and Ketamine (Dissassociative Drugs that are anesthetics used in some surgical procedures) can give you this effect by feeling like you are not "yourself" so to speak and give you the sensation of traveling outside your body. I'm not denying that it is impossible to travel in this form however given the laws of physics especially the physiological structure and the mental status I highly would consider such an act highly impossible. Even if it were possible to travel out of the body how does the individual know that they are not simply hallucinating?

Native Americans smoke Peyote, a hallucinogen, which gives them the effect that they see things in vivid images and are travelling to various dimensions. I'm really skeptical of people who say that they have been to far reaches of the universe because they don't have any proof. I can easily say I've travelled to the planet Mercury without showing proof.

To answer your question you said:

Is it considered wrong to attempt to project your consciousness outside of your body? If so then why?

Yes and no. Yes, as mentioned above given that spiritual travel is not something common to the average human or even "super human" how can there be any empirical proof that this type of experience is "real?" Meaning, how can I empirically experience what this person experienced? Frankly, it has never been accurately done before. How can you project your consciousness outside your body? This seems like Cartesian Dualism in a way because there is one side that says your consciousness is the assimilation of all your physiological structures in your brain. The other side says that your consciousness is your soul, so in that respect in a two part question, how can you project sometimthing apart of your physiological structure?

Also, how does your soul travel outside its body? The soul is encapsulated in the body and is the life force and without it, we would die so how do you make your soul (or int his case consciousness) travel?

Also no, it may not be wrong to attempt to project your consciousness outside your body because nothing is wrong to the one experiencing it. Our subjective truths are true to us.

Israfil wrote: Even if it were possible to travel out of the body how does the individual know that they are not simply hallucinating?

When you know that you haven't taken any drugs or anything else

It seems like that people have forgotten about Muhammad and his one night travel so far away  did Muhammad take some kind of drug?

Angel wrote: Israfil wrote: Even if it were possible to travel out of the body how does the individual know that they are not simply hallucinating? When you know that you haven't taken any drugs or anything else It seems like that people have forgotten about Muhammad and his one night travel so far away  did Muhammad take some kind of drug?

Angel were you asking me: "What if you haven't taken any drugs or anything that alters your state of mind?" Well, this would depend on your short and long term memory and whether or not they are activating to give you the correct memories to conjure.

I also haven't forgotten about Muhammad's night journey. You must have forgotten that it is not universal on exactly the state of the prophet. Some believe he was asleep, others believe that he took an actual conscious out-of-body travel to the 7 levels of Heaven. The prophet wasn't naturally super natural either. All that he did was by God's will therefore, the spiritual travel he made was not of his own doing anyway but by God's and besides, prophets and their abilities aren't necessarily "normal" so this is perhaps an exception to the rule.

Sounds like something a sufi would say or some sort of monkery i dont know seems farfetched to me.

"To begin withg GROW UP, if i was to quote you the list of shaykhs who where ""sufi's"" and whom you just insulted you would feel disgusted with yourself, no doubt you follow them without even knowing and  the only thing you know about tassawuf is from gossip and third hand information."

Please give me these list of Shaykhs I'll give you their list of Bid'a!

the only Sufis you listed were Imam Al Ghazali and Imam abdul Qadir al Gilani, as far as Imam Al-Ghazali goes Just see what Ibn Taimiyah and Imam an-Nawawi said about him and come to think of it I dont even think Imam Abdul Qair al Gilani was a sufi either some Sufis just named the Qardiriyyah after him. Are you a Sufi? and if so you should start following the way of the Salaf and leave Innovated sects alone.

Allahuakbar how do you determine exactly what an innovation is? 

What range of things does this include? 

Allahuakbar how do you determine exactly what an innovation is? 

What range of things does this include?

Allahuakbar how do you determine exactly what an innovation is? an Innovation is when someone brings into Islam something that was not their during the time of the Prophet(saw).

What range of things does this include? This range can Include Shia's with Imamology were they venerate there Imams or Sufi's Chanting in Circles jumping up and down saying Allah over and over again etc etc etc.

Whats the difference between innovation and newly discovered knowledge about things and how they work? The Difference is a Bid'a is something brought into the worship of Islam and newly discovered Knowledge discovered knowledge remains outside of it so theres nothing wrong if study mathematic, astronomy etc but when you start mixing Islam with Greek philosophy and stuff like that you will go astray.

"go do your research grasshopper you have much to learn." I have no need to challenge anyone on the fact that Sufism is a Innovated sect with unacceptable acts of Innovations in worship this has already been proven so what makes you think you can prove it wrong.

AND IF YOU SAY THAT Shaykh Ibn taymiyah, Shaykhs Abdul wahhab and sulaiman ibn abdul wahhab, the father and brothers of muhammad ibn abdul wahhab.Imam an Nawawi, Imam Tirmidhi, Hasan al basri, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, Imam al suyuti, al Tabari, ibn al jawzi, Imam Abu Hanifah,Imam jafar as sidiq, his teacher, Imam Malik, Imam Shafii,Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, WERE SUFIS YOU HAVE MUCH TO LEARN. IM THROUGH WITH THEOLOGICAL RHETOERIC ON THE COUNT OF THOSE WHO TRY TO DEFEND THERE FALSE CLAIMS

Allahuakbar501 wrote: the only Sufis you listed were Imam Al Ghazali and Imam abdul Qadir al Gilani, as far as Imam Al-Ghazali goes Just see what Ibn Taimiyah and Imam an-Nawawi said about him and come to think of it I dont even think Imam Abdul Qair al Gilani was a sufi either some Sufis just named the Qardiriyyah after him.

This shows your complete ignorance. Seriously. Your a new convert with your set of Bilal Philips lectures and now you are able to make such wide, sweeping remarks? Simply amazing. 

The wahabis turn out "scholars" and "experts" in less than 6 years, it took Umar (ra) 7 years to learn Surah Al Baqarah alone from the Prophet (saw) himself. I am not sure how you are so comfortable to make such powerful remarks with only your lectures of Bilal Phillips. 

What do you know of Hujjat Al Islam, Imam Al Ghazali? Have you even read a single work by him? Are you prepared to be so confident to slander one of the greatest of the Ulema who has ever lived (not my opinion, but a major opinion that is agreed upon by the majority of scholars that have lived since him) because of a few sophomoric websites you study and a set of Bilal Phillip's lectures? Your only defense of your truly cursory approach to this topic is to exclaim that we should see what Ibn Taymiyya says (as if that actually matters) and Imam Al-Nawawi says? You are not even able to argue with Imam Nawawi as a source (if so you would have done it), and I know you have not looked at all the other positions on Imam Al Ghazali. How smplistic. How intellectually bankrupt.

Are you a Sufi? and if so you should start following the way of the Salaf and leave Innovated sects alone.

Allahuakbar501 wrote: Allahuakbar how do you determine exactly what an innovation is? an Innovation is when someone brings into Islam something that was not their during the time of the Prophet(saw).

Obviously he and Bilal Phillips have discarded bound Qurans from printing presses and instead turn to bones and leaves to recite Quran from. I am sure that the "dots" on the script have been removed, after all, we have to be pure of innovation. No study of tafsir, as this science is an "innovation", etc, etc.

What range of things does this include? This range can Include Shia's with Imamology were they venerate there Imams or Sufi's Chanting in Circles jumping up and down saying Allah over and over again etc etc etc.

This is really an over simplistic statement, and the product of "neo-salafi" "free pamplets" on Islam. This overly simplistic overly mechanical overly juvenile approach to religion is funny, I have always imagined neosalafs walking around with counters in their pocket, so they will know when there quotas of saying "Allah" or "Allahu AKbar" or "Astaghfurallah" have been met, such that they have to wait until the next day to start their new quotas. It is funny. Could you prove what the exact number of "Allahs" with evidence that limits it to some limit and what bodily actions are permissible when you say "Allah".

Whats the difference between innovation and newly discovered knowledge about things and how they work? The Difference is a Bid'a is something brought into the worship of Islam and newly discovered Knowledge discovered knowledge remains outside of it so theres nothing wrong if study mathematic, astronomy etc but when you start mixing Islam with Greek philosophy and stuff like that you will go astray.

Like the dots on the Arabic letters.

"go do your research grasshopper you have much to learn." I have no need to challenge anyone on the fact that Sufism is a Innovated sect with unacceptable acts of Innovations in worship this has already been proven so what makes you think you can prove it wrong. AND IF YOU SAY THAT Shaykh Ibn taymiyah, Shaykhs Abdul wahhab and sulaiman ibn abdul wahhab, the father and brothers of muhammad ibn abdul wahhab.Imam an Nawawi, Imam Tirmidhi, Hasan al basri, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani, Imam al suyuti, al Tabari, ibn al jawzi, Imam Abu Hanifah,Imam jafar as sidiq, his teacher, Imam Malik, Imam Shafii,Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, WERE SUFIS YOU HAVE MUCH TO LEARN. IM THROUGH WITH THEOLOGICAL RHETOERIC ON THE COUNT OF THOSE WHO TRY TO DEFEND THERE FALSE CLAIMS

This is funny, and sad. At least go out and read these people's works on their own, not from wahabi commentaries. These men were great scholars and sufis. 

"Linquistically Bid'ah(innovation) means a 'newly invented matter"

"The Shar'ia definition of Bid'ah is: "A newly invented way (Beliefs or action) in the religion, in imitation of the shar'ia, by which nearness to Allah is sought, but not being supported by any authenic proof- neither in its foundations, nor in the manner in which it was performed."--Imam ash-shaatibee

Ibn Umar(ra) said: "Every innovation is misguidance, even if the people see it as something good"

I have read works by Ibn taymiyah, Abdul wahhab, Abu Hanifah, Imam Malik, Imam Tirmidhi, Imam Shafii, Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal etc and none of them tought what the sufis do so you must joking and ive noticed people will make assumptions as to what i have read or what I have not and act like they know me

Al-Qur'an 49:11-12 "O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh at others: It may be that the (latter are better than the (former): Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong. O ye who believe! Avoid suspicion as much (as possible): for suspicion in some cases is a sin: And spy not on each other behind their backs. Would any of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? Nay, ye would abhor it...But fear Allah: For Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful."

this may fall on deaf ears

but anyway....

Allahuakbar501 wrote: I have no need to challenge anyone on the fact that Sufism is a Innovated sect with unacceptable acts of Innovations in worship this has already been proven so what makes you think you can prove it wrong.

I understand there was/is some group that may call themselves sufis that is not islam, BUT i have studied much and there is a lot here at the boards. Sufism is the heart of islam it is the tulwaad, it is the spiritual side of islam.

GO and search this site, read up on my decisions from the past and you will realise that you don't know much as you think you do.

I think that is enough about sufism here in this thread, if anyone wants to continue first look it up and continue in one of the many threads available.

Now time to go back to astral traveling....before the thread gets closesd

your non offical moderator!

Allahuakbar501 wrote: Allahuakbar how do you determine exactly what an innovation is? an Innovation is when someone brings into Islam something that was not their during the time of the Prophet(saw). What range of things does this include? This range can Include Shia's with Imamology were they venerate there Imams or Sufi's Chanting in Circles jumping up and down saying Allah over and over again etc etc etc. Whats the difference between innovation and newly discovered knowledge about things and how they work? The Difference is a Bid'a is something brought into the worship of Islam and newly discovered Knowledge discovered knowledge remains outside of it so theres nothing wrong if study mathematic, astronomy etc but when you start mixing Islam with Greek philosophy and stuff like that you will go astray.

How would you know whether or not something is an extension of what islam has revealed or what is something (for example an idea) that falls outside of or contradicts islamic thought?

For example to say that aliens do not exist because they are not mentioned in the Quran or hadith means that you are saying God or Allah is limited in his ability to create life in the universe and only limiting to this planet earth.  After all the Quran says Allah is allpowerful.  How do you resolve this matter to yourself?