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The way to Peace in Jerusalem

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Topic: The way to Peace in Jerusalem
Posted By: Community
Subject: The way to Peace in Jerusalem
Date Posted: 20 May 2005 at 1:32am

for the muslims :

koran chapter 5 "the table full of food" vers 8:
" O ye who have believed stand firmly for Allah as witnesses to fair dealing(fairness), and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve not to do justice. Be just that is closer to piety, and fear(be concious of) Allah. For Allah is well aquaineted with what you do.

chapter the women"4:135:

"O you who have believed! Stand firmly for justice as witnesses to Allah, even if AGAINST YOURSELVES, or the parents or the kin, and wether he may be rich or poor, for Allah can best protect both. follow not the lusts(of your hearts). And if ye distort or turn away from doing justice, verily Allah is well aquainted with that which ye do."

For the christians:

Koran chapter 5 "the table spread with food"(reminds me of Jesus' last meal) verse 46

 "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the torah(old testament) that came before him and We gave him the Gospel: therein IS guidance and light, and confirmation of the torah that came before him and a guidance and an admonition to those who fear(are concious of). "

verse47: "Let the people of the Evangel(gospel) judge by what Allah has sent down therein, and whoever does not judge by what Allah has sent down, those are the perverted."

For the jews and christians:

"koran 5 "the table spread with food" al ma'ida" verse 68:

 say:"O people of the book(bible comes from the latin word bibleo which means book).O people of the book ye are upon nothing, UNTILL ye make firm(implement) The Torah, the Evangel(gospel), and that which is sent down to you from thy Lord". And that which is sent down to thee from thy Lord increaseth in most of them their arrogance and disbelief, so sorrow thouself not over the (disbelieving) ungrateful people.

If the jews would implement the law from the old testament: "Soul for a soul" eye for an eye etc. and be just, (solomon was jewish known for his wisdom and justice) This would mean for instance a suicide bomber kills 1 woman and one man, the israeli soldiers would then kill only 1 man and one woman of the palestinians, depending on wether the families of the killed want to implement this law or forgive,  after a couple of times of this happening the palestinians themselves would do something against these people who do these suicide bombings and promote it, because most palestinians do not want to be killed on their way to the mosque or market for some radical ideas of a small group in their society, but the reality is that the number of palestinian deaths compared to israeli is far higher and most of the killed at the palestinian side are kids....and this fuels anger, and this anger is used by extreemists. See the lesson to be learned in the holy land, the land He declared holy, is that there can be no peace while excluding Him from the peace process, The jews should know this, afterall it says in their own book:"He is a jelous god", only when all the 3 parties observe their respective books(the laws commands, and guidance in them) that Allah gave them, will there be true peace. "He is The Peace and from Him is peace".

 

 

 

woo to those who intentionally translate the koran wrongly


 Say: "(Allah) speaketh the Truth so follow the religion of Abraham, the sane in faith; he was not of those who associate (others with Allah)." [koran chapter 3 "aali imraan" the family of Imran verse 95 ]

 




Replies:
Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 21 May 2005 at 4:42pm

[koranic chapter 5" the table full of food" verse 45]: "And we wrote upon them(ordained) in it that soul for a soul, eye for eye nose for nose ear for ear tooth for tooth, and wounds equal. But if anyone remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by what Allah has sent down, then these are those who wrong (are unjust).
Allah makes it known to us that this law in particular, exists in their book i.e the torah, so we have to do something with this verse, to command with the known(as ma'roof in arabic means that which is known, that which is familiar) and to end that which is detested.

"al amru bi al ma'roof wa annahyi 'ani al munkar" in arabic.

koran chapter aale Imraan(the family of Imran) chapter 3 verse 110: Ye were the most wholesome community, evolved for mankind, ye command with what is known/familiar, and ye end what is detested, and believe in Allah. If but the People of the Book had believed, it would be wholesome: from them are the believers, but most of them are the  perverted.

"ye were(kontum) the most wholesome(khaira) community(ummatin)" i write this for those who think it says "ye are the best community" as is written in the translations. because reality is we need to remember, we were. why were we the most wholesome community evolved for mankind? because we command,we urge with what is familiar/ known and good, and end that wich is detested, and believe in Allah(tu'minoona bi Allah, amn in arabic is safety so the nearest explanation of believing in Allah is to have found safety and security in Him, faith in Him), if the people of the book had faith, it would be wholesome, from them(amongst them) are the believers(mu'minoona) and most of them are the perverted.



Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 21 May 2005 at 5:03pm

chapter 103, Al Asr

( al 'asr is the period of time before sunset,the period right before the end of the day the period we live in basically)

1.By al asr(see above)

2.verily man is truely in loss.

3.except those who have believed, and did the mending works, and commended with the truth and commended with patience.



Posted By: tusuque
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 9:29am
I believe that the way to peace is for Israel to dismantle most of
its settlements, including those surrounding E. Jerusalem, end
its annexation of E. Jerusalem, allow for E. Jerusalem to
become Palestine's capital.

Palestine, in return, should renounce most of its RoR claims,
and disarm hamas, and end terror.


Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 2:25pm

and i believe the name Palestine is a name derived from the Philistines who fought against the believers of the time of Moses and even David, and were idolators and were defeated, the name Palestine thus stems from the time of ignorance and has no reason, religious reason if you wish, of existance,

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chapter the "round" table spread with food,"al ma'idah" 5:50 Do they then desire the judgment of (the days of) ignorance? and who is better then Allah in judgment for a people who are sure. 

rather the holy land should be undivided, He chose this land to be the place of meeting between the 3 communities, the jewish, christian and islamic, and His cause is that His word will prevail, chapter "the repentance"(attawba)9:40 If ye help not,(it is no matter): for Allah did indeed saved him, when the Unbelievers drove him out: he had no more than one companion; they two were in the cave, and he said to his companion, "Have no fear, for Allah is with us": then Allah sent down His peace upon him, and strengthened him with forces which ye saw not, and he made the word of those who became disbelievers(ungrateful) the lowest. and the word of Allah is exalted to the heights: for Allah is Exalted in might, Wise.  It is impossible to have true peace without engaging the peace with Him first. How do we engage the peace with Him? obeying His laws. These laws(torah, gospel and koran) exist for a reason, and the reason is good. True peace while excluding Him, especially in the land He made Holy is impossible. If you do not know this by now, you will come to know, One nation under The god of Abraham Moses, Jesus, Muhammed and all mankind, This is the truth, so do not turn away otherwise i fear for you a day of great distress. The peace is upon all the prophets and messengers who strived for His cause and gained His mercy.

Chapter "attauba" (the repentance)

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9:33 It is He Who hath sent His Messenger(His sent one) with the guidance and the Religion of Truth, as to proclaim it over religion as a whole, even though those who associate others with Him may detest it

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chapter "assaff" (the row) 61:9 He was (the one) who sent His Messenger(His sent one,"rasoolaho") with the Guidance and the Religion of Truth, as to proclaim it over religion as a whole, even though those who associate others with Him may detest it.



Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 02 July 2005 at 5:01pm
You all really should aknowledge the truth that there is no way to true peace except through obediance to The One and Only God what holds you back from saying "we hear and we obey"? do you not understand my first post? do you not hear? it is the truth from your alltogether Lord. Aknowledge if you comprehend. Bring this to the attention of people or do not, it is the truth, and if you do not know it by now, then you will know it, i just hope for you it will not be too late when you finally do.


Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 03 July 2005 at 1:45pm
Beautiful. I respect as well as envy you your knowledge and faith.
I think it's spot on the connection between Philistine and Palestine.
I don't agree that it serves well to judge Yay or Nay the authenticity of
Palestinian claims to their own land based on ancient history. I mean to
say, if you live in your own town on the property that your great great
grandparents left you, Well that should be enough proof of ownership.

Regarding revenge and punitive justice.. I like what Gandhi said,
"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."





Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 04 July 2005 at 3:37am

"Regarding revenge and punitive justice.. I like what Gandhi said,
"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind."
Justice yes, an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind, if half of the world population would take out one eye of the other half, and the other half would take out the eye of those who took out their eye, you would have the whole world one eyed, i m sure you can figure that out for yourself, and if those who started taking out eyes, try to take out the other eye out of anger when justice has been done, you would have another kind of thing going on, a fight against injustice. And that is also for the sake of protecting the only eye left, against those who do not understand justice and wish to take out ones remaining eye out of wrath. Not to retaliate is atonement for ones soul, and to forgive is even better, but if someone can not, then there is the just law of retaliating in an equal way.  i think Mr. Ghandi did not really understand The Law, and probebly just felt it was a harsh law so he made a statement which sounded very "nice and kind" in the ears of those who do not understand it either, but you? I do not know you, or why you brought Ghandi into this, but if you do not understand The Law yourself, and do not implement or stand by them, you should ask yourself, "what right does God give me to live in the land He declared holy?" But then again maybe the place where you live is outside the area He declared Holy. You said you envy me,. envy to me is when someone can not have what the other has which he perceives as being superior. Some people envy others because of looks, and some because of wealth, these are matters of this worldly life, so no need for envy, since with Him who is The Merciful are the stores of everything, and then you have "the story of the sons of Adam, Abel and Cain, they both offered an offering to gain His nearness, so it was accepted from one of them, and not accepted from the other, so he said "i will kill you" so he replied "verily Allah accepts from the cautious(those who fear Him/ mind Him). "If you stretch out your hand towards me to kill me, i am not stretching out my hand to kill you, I fear Allah, The Lord of the worlds. I intend to let you draw on yourself my sin and your own sin, so that you will be from the companions of the fire, and that is the reward of those who wrong". So the (selfish)self led him to kill his brother, so he killed him so he rose up (became) one of the losers. Then Allah made a raven to appear who is searching in the earth, so as to show him how to hide the shame of his brother, he said "yaa waylataa"  have i become able to be as this raven so i hide the shame of my brother?" so he became of the regretful. Chapter the table (al ma'idatu) 5:27. I wish you good.



Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 04 July 2005 at 5:47am
I wish you were my neighbor. I must learn Koran.
Do I have to do this in Arabic or can I obtain a "Kosher" English
Translation? My Arabic is limited to spoken and very poor at that.


Gandhi was a Lawyer. He understood a great deal about the law.
Most important he made even his enemies question themselves.
The disturbing thing about Gandhi to me as a Jew was his refusal to lend
his voice against the British Mandate of Palestine to let in refugees from
Germany and eastern europe. At the time there was of course no where
else to go. The standard answer is "Well, what do you expect? Everyone
hates the Jews why should Gandhi have been an exception?

An anada thing. Do you believe that god/Allah is still jealous?




Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 04 July 2005 at 11:47am

Yes He is jealous why else would peace not be possible in The Holy Land while denying His rule? what is the matter with you? do you not see and understand? why are you so cought up in it? do you believe your ways will last forever while He is The Inheritor and that His righteous(fit) slaves will inherit the earth?



Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 04 July 2005 at 1:32pm
Do I not see...Actualy not so good. Glucoma. But that's not what you
meant is it? Nope.

As far as my understanding I sorta thought that peace was so illusive here
because people were so rigid and intolerant of each other. In fact they
would rather judge each other and objectify each other than appreciate
the diversity and beauty all these different faiths have to offer.

My ways will hopefully not last for ever because they aren't comfortable.
They don't work for me or my neighbors. My people are making a mess
of things here. Most of us have no where else to go. It's not a great
situation. I'm considered by some of my own school chums to be a traitor
to Israel for even talking to Muslims. It's all going to be okay in the end
but right now it's painful to watch and evil to do nothing.

As far as being caught up in it I just am I was trained to be this way.
I need to change. I need to learn. Maybe it's too late but that's not an
attitude with which to get anything done.


Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 04 July 2005 at 3:41pm

I think i read that you drank mango juice with Arafat, is this true?... do you regret doing that? because to me it's not worth it to drink anything with someone who caused so much corruption in the land. Was not he who started using the word Palestine and making it a duty upon people to spill blood for that "pagan" name? sure he could smile like an nice old granma but seriously, what good did he do except firing people up through furious new sence of nationalism, first he was a terrorist with glasses on, and started the new age terrorism together with that Khaddafi (also with glasses on) and then he became a peace dove? no way, there is no true peacemaker who does not invite people to what is good, to obey The Lawmaker, Arafat's goal was probebly not peace, but his own belly and maybe hopes of later on in time defeating israel and reconquering it. Was this meeting with Arafat the reason why your old school chums call you a traitor? because he is atleast a bit contreversial do'nt you think? but i am curious why did you meet with him anyway?

By the late afternoon time (before sunset)

Verily mankind is in loss

save those who have found security and safety in faith, and did mending(good) deeds, and enjoined truth and enjoined patience on eachother. Chapter al asr, the period after noon and before sunset(the end, basically the last period of the day)



Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 04 July 2005 at 4:34pm
on another note, this is all you need to do, try to work for peace with"God" take a path toward Him by doing that which He likes and leaving what He dislikes, observing His Laws is what He likes, it pleases Him, it is a path and there are alot of things He likes for us, truthfulness is a major thing, He is The Truth, and truths lead to Him, and He will judge with truth on the day of judgement. You see it alot that people are pressured by groups or "leaders" into accepting their lies which they claim to be truths and acting like they wish them to act, and the leaders might be pleased with their obediance and these followers might be pleased with their leader's smiles, but on judgement day The Only One will judge with truth, so how will these people be before Him who is The Truth? who created us to worship Him? to please Him. No matter how pleased someone is with you, or displeased(like your school chums) all that matters is if He is pleased. Check if He is or not by looking into His book.  Abraham worked to please His Lord, he even killed his own son(because God only stopped him after he already sacrificed his son in his mind and his hand was about to slit his son's throught) which he loved more then anything in the world, and "God" is the merciful, so He gave him back his son, and ontop of that His nearness, Allah took Abraham as a friend. The true religion is that of Abraham, submission to God with the goal of gaining His peace by doing so, this is the meaning of the arabic word "islaam", what other reason is there to submit to His will? what other reason is there to observe His laws if it is not to for the sake of pleasing Him? the only other reason to me would be that of a hypocrite, who observes His laws to please other people. Because he wants to be accepted by the group for one reason or the other, to be smiled at and approved of by others, to be pleasing to others, and this pleases or profits him, but on the day of judgement, how will this person be? this person who did not observe the laws, who did not follow the religion except as a way to please the people around him, for a certain profit....what will happen to this liar when he sees the fire infront of him...and realizes that his works are fruitless, and that the truth is what remained and that falsehood has vanished, and that falsehood by nature is a vanishing thing.


Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 04 July 2005 at 4:45pm
We had reason to believe that Sharon was going to take out Arafat with in
hours. I crossed the border into the Pal authority and met my contacts
outside the Gate of the Muktah and Yasser gave us something to drink.
We were going to send out for beer and Pizza but Yasser has this thing
about alcohol... Sorry Sorry I can't help it you are so serious Bottom line

It would have been a blood bath. He was not presenting a clear and
present danger. As bad as things are now it would have been worse had
we not put ourselves in the way.

I'll ask you a question.
If someone told you that you could save thousands of lives by humiliating
yourself publicly would you do it? I did. Mango Juice with Yasser Sumi


Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 04 July 2005 at 7:43pm
If someone told me that i could save thousands of lives by humiliating myself publicly would i do it....i understand why you did it, but do you think alot of palestinians miss Arafat? what i found out is that "if" is often used in a wrong way, things are the way they are, and choices are made and we all are moving towards the conclusion.


Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 05 July 2005 at 12:30am


...things are the way they are, and choices are
made and we all are moving towards the conclusion.


The President of Palestine died not two months after our visit. You may
be right in that his passing was the natural course of events. But it was
up to Allah to take him. Not an assassin and certainly not the IDF. What
his own people thought of him is none of my business.

IF is a monumentally good word. It works for me like a flat surface to put
things down and look at them. It's a planning word who's powers should
only be used for good...

I often humiliate myself in public. for once this was a good cause


Posted By: Whisper
Date Posted: 05 July 2005 at 7:18am

Daniel for heavens sake, please, don't ask him for anything about the Koran. You will turn out to be as misleading as he is. Enjoy and just treat him as a good joke!

You will be fine.



Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 05 July 2005 at 8:31am
whoa whoa whoa whisper I'm a big boy now. The Man's got a opinion and
I'm here by his invitation no less. Remember that I am (oy) rather was an
investigator and that I look for converging information to lead me to the
truth. In this case this is an opinion and if you noticed , not a few
questions, (granted on of them was (WHATS WRONG WITH YOU) but hey I
ask my self that question 5 times a day. Wait. How many times do we pray
in Islam?   Oh no oh no I'm a Muhamadian. Im uh sorry momma...





Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 05 July 2005 at 8:50am
Wait. is it cool to use the term Muhamadian or have I just stepped in it
again...



Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 05 July 2005 at 11:46am

I think they will actually do it.

I had a vision last night before i went to sleep, it made me startled me and made me kind of terrified for a moment, in this vision i saw this person, i think a woman  was standing next to a big metal object that looked round like the back of a bulldozer, i think that metal thing can be moved around for some purpose, it was painted sand yellow, with the brandname painted over, like the brand name on the back used to painted in another collor but it was painted over and now the who object is sand yellow or desert yellow. The person was putting something in a backpack that looked more like a suitecase because it was bigger and squarer then regular back backs, it was blue with white around the edges, when i saw all this,i was looking down on it, i felt this was Israel where this took place, and what terrified me for a moment was the notion that what i was seeing was a nuclear device being put in a backpack by that person, i think they will actually do it, smuggle a nuclear device into the united states and set it off and then ofcourse arabs and muslims will automatically get the blame they think, since this war in Iraq has become unpopular in The US, and israelis do not wish to fight a war, because once the US leaves civil war will break out in Iraq, and this is preceived as a dangerous situation by Israel.




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