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Peaceful majority

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Topic: Peaceful majority
Posted By: senekerk
Subject: Peaceful majority
Date Posted: 18 February 2007 at 5:44am
I received this email, I wanted to post it to get feedback, not to be mean.  I want to know how to respond to this email.  If this is not appropriate you may remove it.
 
 
 
 
Friends and Fellow AmericanThe Peaceful Majority
by William Haynes

I used to know a man whose family was German aristocracy
prior to World War Two. They owned a number of large
industries and estates. I asked him how many German people
were true Nazis, and the answer he gave has stuck with me
and guided my attitude toward fanaticism ever since.

"Very few people were true Nazis "he said," but many enjoyed
the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to
care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a
bunch of fools. So,  the majority just sat back and let it
all happen. Then, before we  knew it, they owned us, and we
had lost control, and the end of the  world had come. My
family lost everything I ended up in a  concentration camp
and the Allies destroyed my factories."

We are told again and again by "experts" and "talking heads"
that Islam is the religion of peace, and that the vast
majority of  Muslims just want to live in peace.

Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is
entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make
us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the specter of
fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.
The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in
history.

It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage
any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics
who  systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups
throughout  Africa and are gradually taking over the entire
continent in an  Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb,
behead, murder, or honor  kill. It is the fanatics who take
over mosque after mosque. It is  the fanatics who zealously
spread the stoning and hanging of rape  victims and
homosexuals. The hard quantifiable fact is that the 
"peaceful majority" is the "silent majority" and it is cowed
and extraneous.

Communist Russia comprised Russians who just wanted to live
in  peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for
the murder  of about 20 million people. The peaceful
majority were irrelevant.  China's huge population was
peaceful as well, but Chinese  Communists managed to kill a
staggering 70 million people.

The average Japanese individual prior to World War 2 was not
a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered
its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that
included the  systematic murder of 12 million Chinese
civilians; most killed by  sword, shovel, and bayonet. And,
who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery. Could
it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were "peace
loving"?

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet
for all our powers of reason we often miss the most basic
and uncomplicated of
points:

Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their
silence.
Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't
speak up, because like my friend from Germany , they will
awake one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the
end of their world will  have begun.

Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans,
Serbs Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians,
Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful
majority did not speak  up until it was too late.

As for us who watch it all unfold; we must pay attention to
the only group that counts; the fanatics who threaten our
way of life.

Lastly, I wish to add:   I sincerely think that anyone who
rejects this as just another political rant, or doubts the
seriousness of  this issue or just deletes it without paying
heed to it, or sending it on, is part of the problem. Lets
quit laughing at and forwarding  the jokes and cartoons
which denigrate and ridicule our leaders in  this war
against terror. They are trying to protect the interests 
and well being of the world and it's citizens. Best we
support them.

William Haynes




-------------
Kay



Replies:
Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 18 February 2007 at 8:33am

Well I think he should have made it clear who he's talking about?? Which fanatic Muslims exactly? Al Qaeda? If its Al Qaeda hes talking about Muslims not only have condemned it but Bin Laden has been sentenced to death in Saudia Arabia he just has to be captured and all the highest relegios clerics have condemned it. So who exactly is he talking about and what does he mean by fanatical Muslims because our standards can differ from his standards, he should have been specific.

Let him put himself in the shoes of a Muslim. What would he do? Iraq, invaded for no reason, you are obligated in Islam to defend your country, wouldnt he fight? More than 200 children, boys and girls, up until 2005 have been rapped by the U.S army according to the Institution of Children in Iraq. What would he do?

If its Afghanistan hes talking about, Mulla Omar one of the Ministers of Afghanistan and one of the greatest Taliban figures said to the US government that if they show him the evidence which links Bin Laden to 911 he would gladely hand him over. The US government replied that it had showed Britian the evidence, period. So he refused, and rightfully so, this is according to almost all courts of law, one is innocent until proven guilty. US invaded Afghanistan. What to do if you were an Afghani? If the US is invaded the way Iraq was, for no reason, what would you have done? If the US was invaded the way Afghanistan was, what would u who wrote that email have done?

So I dont know who is he reffering to by "fanatics". But for the sake of argument, yes the peacefull Muslims have condemned the "fanatics" and they have fought them even more than you yourself have fought them. Isnt Saudia Arabia a key ally to the US in her war against terror? Isnt Saudia Arabia a Muslim country? Havent the greatest Muslim scholars said that it is ordained for Saudia Arabia to be US's ally on her war against terror?

I think this guy has been a bit too much affected by what he sees in the media. Immediately after 911 the US embassy in Kuwait was flooded and bombarded with flowers and roses from Muslims showing their condolences. Did the media report that? I dont think so. Every single official Muslim scholar condemned 911. Did the media report that? Two of the greatest Muslim scholars of our time, AbdulAziz ibn Baz and ibn Othaimeen both issued a Fatwa (religious ruling) forbiding suicide bombers. Did the media report that? Again, no they didnt.

Muslims are doing their job in fighting the "radical" Muslims and more. Are u doing your job in critisizing your fanatics? Lets not crtisize the other and forget ourselves here. To every action is a reaction. Its only natural some Muslims will be a bit too angry when two of their countries have been unrightfully illegally invaded dont u think? Its only natural some Muslims will also be a bit too angry at the US for siding with Israel in a conflict it has nothing to do with dont you think? When Israel ignores UN resolutions resolution after resolution until this day, isnt it only a natural reaction that some Muslims will get mad and maybe even some, unfortanetly, will turn into fanatics?

Just because a Muslim disagrees with Americas policies doesnt make him a threat. I wish he would have showed us exactly where are these fanatics and who are they exactly?

He mentioned honour killings, these have nothing to do with Islam, they are cultural and practised by some Muslims due to their culture not due to Islam so please dont blame Islam. He mentioned it is the fanatics who wage wars, when exactly did a Muslim country wage a war against a non Muslim country in the last I dont know 20 years? On the other hand .....! Who does this guy want us to speak up against?? Just because he doesnt know we do that doesnt mean we dont. Keep in mind, we dont have freedom of speach in our countries. We cant demonstrate, we cant march and we cant speak up. Islam gives us this right but our governments dont. Many who have spoken up have been jailed. What does this guy want us to do? How many hundreds and hundreds of extremists and Saudia Arabias prisons? Why did he ignore that fact?

One of the most famous Saudi preachers today, Salman Al Oda, was what this guy would call a fanatic, and he was imprisoned and successfully do to several progras run by the Saudi government to show these people that this isnt part of Islam he left his school of thought and is today of the most people who condemn terrorism. His son btw died in Gauntanamo. Do Muslims blaim the Americans for gauntamo where Muslims are being jailed without even a trial! No, we dont, because its the american governments fault not the Americans, theres a difference between government and people. Theres also a difference between Muslims and what this guy calls fanatic Muslims. Why didnt he speak about the fanatic Israelis? Why didnt he speak of the fanatic Bush administration which by its own words are on a crusade? Why didnt he speak about the tens of evidences which clearly show that 911 was an inside job? Why? Lets not be double standard here, lets both admit that we both have our fanatics. And as it seems, Muslims have done much more to fight there own fanatics than the Americans have done to fight there own. Mosques have been destroyed by MUSLIM governments just because these mosques were supposedly tied with terrorism. Muslim schools have been bombarded by the Pakistani government and all its students including 10 year old children killed simply because it was accused of teaching extremist ideas. Keep in mind the government could have just shut it down. On the other hand, what did the US do?  When Clinton starves 20 million Iraqis, and starves 2 million of them to death including half a million which were childen, isnt that fanatical the very least? When Blair refuses to allow medicines to enter Iraq which were confirmedto him that they cant be turned into weapons, isnt that fanatical too?

Why dont we discuss why these Muslims turn fanatical? Isnt it because of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan? Was there an Al Qaeda in Iraq priot to US's invasion? No. Were there beheadings by Islamists? No. Were there suicide bombings? No.

You do not slap someone and not accept him to slap you back, the very least, he's going to punch you.

You do not invade someone unrightfully illegally and not accept this someone to not get pissed off and have a stronger reaction to your action then your action itself. Did Japan nuke the US? No. Why did the US nuke it? Well, that could be debated, generally to end the war. Well, the suicide bomber thinks the same.

 



Posted By: hat2010
Date Posted: 18 February 2007 at 8:38am
Substitute Muslim for American and you'll be able to figure this problem
out yourself.

Read Bin Laden's explanation for why we were targeted, Kay. The same
idea of silent approval.

The disgusting bloody and out-of-control power grab in the Middle East
has made us as Americans appear guilty by proxy, no matter what the
latest Bush poll show. And so, we fall into someone else's dopey form
letter about how it is Americans propping up murderous dictators,
Americans rigging elections, Americans raping, killing, torturing, etc.

Impeaching Bush, getting the hell out of Iraq, refusing to support
oppressors throughout the world - these are ways to take America of the
Militant Muslims bullseye. And I'm afraid, that like the absolutely
innocent civilians massacred by Americans in Iraq, we all will remain in
the crosshairs.


Posted By: senekerk
Date Posted: 18 February 2007 at 8:53am
As Salaam thank you for the replies I may foward them to those who chose to email me this letter. I DID NOT pass it on as I myself found a lot of problems with it. I for one do not beleive what the american media states. I now know there is another side. You all have broadened my mind and I thank you for it.

-------------
Kay


Posted By: senekerk
Date Posted: 18 February 2007 at 1:46pm

As Salaam

This article was in our local newspaper:

Was removing Saddam Hussein worth the price paid?

 

 Now that George W. Bush has been crowned king of the US, I would like to ask him a few simple questions.

 

Was removing Saddam worth killing more than 650,000 innocent Iraqi civilians, many of them women and children?

 

 Was removing Saddam worth the deaths of over 3,000 American military, many of whom did not live to see their 21st birthday?

 

 Was removing Saddam worth the severe wounding of over 20,000 American military, many of whom will never completely recover?

 

 Was removing Saddam worth adding $2 trillion to our national debt, most of which will be paid back by our grandchildren?

 

 Was removing Saddam so more Iraqi children can starve a good policy for the US? Wars have unintended consequences.

 

 Was Saddam ever a real threat to the US?  He became a threat only after two years of lies and deceit by the President and Cabinet members.

 

Simple questions require simple answers. NO.

 

Robert A Holt

 

 



-------------
Kay


Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 19 February 2007 at 10:13am
So true. An interesting read, the best Ive read so far regarding this topic is a book called the war on terror writen by Nafiz Mosadeq its on sale in amazon, the guy who wrote it is an international expert on war. It has some very disturbing facts that have been hidden away or tried to be hidden away from the American public.


Posted By: Sadija
Date Posted: 20 February 2007 at 5:34am

All politics if you ask me.  Im not a politician and don't even vote.

Death is from Allah He has his reasons don't you all agree?



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Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing , you will be successfull


Posted By: senekerk
Date Posted: 20 February 2007 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by Sadija Sadija wrote:

All politics if you ask me.  Im not a politician and don't even vote.

Death is from Allah He has his reasons don't you all agree?

 

I am not sure I believe all death is from Allah.  And I am not convinced that Allah causes death especially of women and children.  He may allow it, but not cause it.  Or do I misunderstand what you are saying? 



-------------
Kay


Posted By: Sadija
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 12:24am

Salaam

Misunderstood.  I feel Allah has a reason for everything. He won't even let a hair fall of your head without his demand.  I think that whenever a persons heart stop beating no matter in what way its from Allah.

Allah is more mighty that Shataan so Allah won't let a person die if its Shaytaan's will.

Even innocent people die its for a reason. Maybe Allah takes their pain away by not suffering anymore and give them Jannah.



-------------
Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing , you will be successfull


Posted By: Fallen
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 11:24am

Jamal your last post is irrelevent.....

Even if the U.S does that the terrorist still have agendas beyond what we "know" most criminals thrive off our ignorance



Posted By: senekerk
Date Posted: 21 February 2007 at 11:44am
Thank you for the clarification.  

-------------
Kay


Posted By: hat2010
Date Posted: 24 February 2007 at 4:15am
Peace -

"Thank you for the clarification. "

Here's another helping.

"Jamal your last post is irrelevent.....
Even if the U.S does that the terrorist still have agendas beyond what we
"know" most criminals thrive off our ignorance'

Again - using the word jumble strategy of my first post:
Even if the terrorists do [make demanded of them amends] the US still
have agendas beyond what we know, most ignorant thrive off their
criminality.

Fallen, I don't think "irrelevent" was the word you were looking for.
Suggestions for replacement:
1) "lacking": my simple answer didn't and couldn't hope to come close to
covering the whole complicated problem
2) "biased": Besides being Muslim, I'm rooting for the underdog, namely,
unarmed folks who are being carpet bombed, bulldozed in their houses,
raped, oppressed, robbed of self-governance and humiliated by the
United States of America's military.
3) "wrong": while 'on-topic- and 'revelant' I am way off the mark.

The first post suggested that somehow Muslims need to actively stop
terrorism - Arab intelligently replied that we are. My Moroccan press is
currently blazing with nation-wide arrests of Al Qaida, destruction of
Ansar al Mehdi sleeper cells, etc. Earlier, thousands of Muslims marched
in Casablanca and Rabat to protest the Casa bombing near a Jewish
synagogue/cemetary.

However, I will not call terrorism acts of personal, communal, or national
self-defense, no matter how desperate those acts may appear. For
Colonially-minded Euro-Americans [who slashed their way to the top of
the global food chain] to expect any country to allow them to exploit their
resources without a fight (usually called "opening markets" and "creating
a beacon of hope for democracy in the region") will result in more
intransigence, more bloody misunderstanding, more 'irrelevance'

There you go, Kay - a bit meatier than the first post. Maybe more gristle.

Peace and God help us all,
Jamal



Posted By: senekerk
Date Posted: 24 February 2007 at 5:22am
very well done Jam

-------------
Kay



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