Assalamu'Alaikum,

Well it looks like he might want to run for the top job....but is he muslim?

Everyone knows the media spun life story his father was muslim his mother remarried and his foster father was muslim he went to muslim schools lived in muslim countries and later after returning to Hawaii finished with a couple of years of Christian schools and off to college....

Well I'm confused because in the spring of 2001 on 60 minutes my husband and I were watching an Ed Bradley special where he spent the day with Barak and he said he was mulsim? He said it was of concerne because of 911 and he wanted to put the public at ease...He stated it loud and clear infront of his wife and munchkins and for everyone to hear...

Which was kind of exciting our family was happy Mash'Allah to see a muslim who wanted to pursue a career of service in public office....

Last election time when our Imam mentioned in the Khutbah and Jummah Salat he knew the br. running for office and how he became muslim and was urging us to vote for him than said the br's name I thought well maybe he just forgot about Barak? Or he wanted to put emphasis on the fact that this br' came to Islam and BArak was born and raised in it......

Than this last election time when my kids were talking about it from all of the election stuff they were studying at school they said "No Mama" "Only Baraks family are muslim he's Christian"...I said "What...that doesn't sound right" even my hubby chimed in with "Remember the 60mins interview"....we went to his official website during election time and it made very little mention of either father and really played the entire being muslim way down...

I couldn't believe it and than midway down the page it listed the baptist church he and his family had in very recent years just started to attend....

So is he muslim or not?

If during election time you heard some of his speeches you could clearly define undertones and influences from the Quran much of what he said could be related back to passages in the Quran even though not the exact wordings......

If he is like the media has labeled him a "Closet Muslim" what does that say to us as an Ummah do we trust him or not? It was just heart breaking to learn about all of this during election time and wonder what happened and when and why?....

The Quran speaks very clearly about how to interact with someone that has denounced Islam so what do we do as muslims? Even if we choose not to vote do we support him in our communities or dismiss him as someone that is wrongly guided?

It reminded me of Madeline Albright and how only after she was appointed to her position and was dispatched to Europe she came out and said she had learned in recent years she was Jewish and of the Jewish faith...I remember shaking my head and thinking so little of her not because of her faith or choice to follow a particular faith but becasue she decided to announce it after she was established in her new position. I thought well maybe it's true she just learned but also thought probably not she probably concealed it to get her position...Allah(swt) knows best....My point being that when a public official openly denies who they are and than mid-stream changes who they are should they be someone we should trust...it's already hard to believe anything that's coming out of our Nations Capitol so should we even be surprised or care?

Here's an article in Counterpunch about Barak. If true, it's of a great concern to Muslims.

http://www.islamicity.com/m/news_frame.asp?Frame=1&referenceID=30079 - http://www.islamicity.com/m/news_frame.asp?Frame=1&refer enceID=30079

Peace

Assalamu'Alaikum,

I've read that article and about a dozen or more just like it...As well as others that down play that entire aspect of his life that formed a foundation of how he grew up and helped shaped who he is today.

WaAllahuAlim...Allah(swt) knows best. What is in his heart and mind and what faith he was born and in what faith he will grow old and die in.

From a trust stand point I think that if he is like the media has played him on different occasions as a "Closet Muslim" than how could he gain support from the Ummah by denouncing Islam and how could he continue to have the support of the Non-Muslim community if he reverts back to Islam after being elected?

Again as I said our entire family was really let down when we found out the news around election time.

From a muslim standpoint I think he should be concerned with his actions as this life is short and he will be held accountable for all that he does...and from what all media reports have stated his foster father was/is very devout and his family was practicing Islam for many years so he is well aware of how he will be held accountable for all of his actions and deeds good and bad....

Barack Obama's father was a Muslim, but he became disillusioned with ALL religions and became an atheist.  Barack is a Baptist.  I have pictures of him speaking from the pulpit of a Baptist church.

His comments concerning his faith (and other issues) are found at this link:

http://www.getreligion.org - www.getreligion.org

God's Peace.

Assalamu'Alaikum Patty,

I used your link and went to his home page that is pretty much the home page we saw at election time....so it doesn't really answer my question unfortunatly.

There's no doubt that today he is active in a Christian lifestyle but it doesn't touch on his past it makes it seem like oh his father was from kenya and went back home....he lived in Indonesia for quite some time and his foster father the man that his mother married was a very devout muslim. It doesn't touch on that or that he attended Islamic school in Indonesia...It also doesn't discount his 60 minutes interview.

Allahu'Alim...as I said before it will be hard to trust him either way or from either side of the fence...and it's between him and Allah(swt)as to how he will live and die and account for his life....

Thanks for the link I wish it had more detailed information about his youth etc....

>>> The Obamas are members of Chicago's Trinity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Church_of_Christ" title="United Church of Christ - United Church of Christ .

And what Joshua Frank wrote about his thinking, it is scary, probably his sperm donor must be on hot seat while six feet under

Trivia:

He is Afro American Bill Clinton, coincidence both Leos, fathers of both died in auto accidents! mothers remarried

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#_note-116" title=" -}

Assalamu'Alaikum,

I think for myself and our family it's more about the trust issue rather than were he ends up...he is very charismatic in his speaking and very idealistic...I'm sure he'll go far how far Wa'Allahu'Alim....

I think that for whatever reason him or his pr people making the choice to down-play or ignore his roots feeds into mistrust of his intentions and how honest he really is....But if he does decide to go back to Islam or if he never really left it one things for sure he will lose the respect and trust of many people on both sides of the fence.

Denouncing a belief or way of life or your past is one thing but hiding it and ignoring it to be accepted is another......

Isn't it so that if he was the son of a Muslim, he is a Muslim as well?  And if he now is a Christian, doesn't that make him guilty of apostacy?  So even if he would win the election (I personally like him) he could lose his life.  Correct me please if I am mistaken.

God's Peace.

Assalamu'Alaikum Patty,

In the Quran it says that Allah(swt) will forgive you and welcome you back to Islam a second time if you are sincere and repent and change for good...But it says if you leave Islam and come back a third time than your on your own....WaAllahuAlim...if your sincerety will be accepted....or not.

He was the son of a muslim and his foster father/step father in western terms was a devout muslim. He also spent many of years of his youth in Indonesia living an Islamic lifestyle. 

In the Quran it says that everyone when their soul is placed into them in there mothers womb grow inside their mother and is born a muslim...submitting to the will of one God...Allah(Swt) the creator of all things...and than it's up to the parents to which faith they choose to raise their child.

I don't know about the lose his life situation...but I do know that he will run the risk of not being considered trustworthy and honest in his intentions depending on how he conducts himself....And if he is misrepresenting himself than Allah(swt) will never increase his Baraka and reward the actions and deeds of a man or woman that is not honest and true in their intentions.

Assalamu'Alaikum Sign*Reader,

I respect your opinion however you are right you didn't do Br. Iqbal his do justice by the narration of the article/exerpt you read those many years ago.

Also please Give Prophet Muhammad(Pbuh) the respect he deserves by placing the (Pbuh) after his name he is the Prophet of Allah(swt) and as such deserves that respect.

You ended with: So give me a break and get off the emotion roller coaster of the politics.

I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean in the context of this subject but from what I've seen in the political arena emotions are a key point to politicians making their decisions as well as the emotions of their supporters that determine the outcome of their policy and elections. You get enough hometown registered voters shouting somethings' wrong and you see a 180' turn around on what that representative is supporting and which side of the fence they are jumping too. It's just too bad that GWB is void of all emotion to be able to do a little jumping otherwise we wouldn't be in the current situations that we are now.

Lastly I would like to say that emotions play a huge roll on decisions if a politician is not honest and trustworthy or hides who he was before he got to where he is today than how can he win the respect of the people he represents?  

It's seems to be you have a very firm grasp on understanding this subject I would be interested to hear from you on if you would trust him as a politician if he reached his goal and announced that he was a muslim or if you in general just don't trust politicians at all.

It doesn't matter what religious convictions this gentleman holds, as long as he is able to produce the things he promises in his campaign it doesn't matter. Why does it matter if he is Muslim? Just because one shares a religion with a specific populace doesn't make him a pious person. There are so many corrupt leaders that are Muslim it should be evidence for us to discard religion as a credit to a presidential canidate. In my idea of a perfect president it would be one who has no religious ideals simply human ideals. When one favors a specific religion he/she will have biased opinions as well as show favoritism to specific religious issues.

To me in order to sustain any kind of democratic practice the leader must be an example and have fair concern for all people.

Salaamu Alaykum,

It's hard to see inside someone's heart to know what we truly are or believe.  Is he a friend of Baptists as a liberal Muslim or what?  Let's somebody just ask him.  Oh, wait though.  If he's just politicing around then what kind of straight answer could somebody get?  Well, I'd like to see a Muslim magazine, net page, paper interview him and see if the bottom line of his faith/beliefs come out, because he seems like a great guy in many ways to me.

Allah, SWT, is Merciful and Forgiving and I guess Mr. Obama is the one who should think about those things rather than us worrying so much about his position in heaven or hell.  He seems like a person who will fight for justice for the impoverished and underpriviledged, and I like him.  The rest is up to Allah, Our Judge.

Sister Niqaab wearer,

I'm sure the brother is fine with what you said, but I know this Brother Sign*Reader loves Islaam and respects all of our beloved prophets, and your comment was just RUDE.  You're new, you didn't know, right?

Dear Israfil, you said the following:

"I agree with Angel, if he declares himself a Muslim he will lose the presidential race...Simple. Most politicians lie about their past and, if he is like those politicians then what he does is not a phenomenon. Better to keep your mouth shut about your religion unless you want to be "politically assassinated!" by the people of course."

Hmmm, I remember a man in the past who was running for President.  He never hesitated to state proudly that he was a Roman Catholic.  And never before had a Catholic been elected to the Presidency.  His name was John F. Kennedy!  No, I disagree here with you.  It is never good in the eyes of God Himself to deny your faith.  Some people would do anything to win an important office such as this, but the righteous would do anything to hold fast to their faith!  It's an individual decision for each person.  As I said, I like Barack.  If he is Muslim, he should be honest, forthright, and proud.  I believe it would work in his favor.  To hide his true religion would, and is, causing him problems, both here on earth and with our God.  Just my opinion, nothing personal Israfil.

God's Peace. 

 Wether he claims to be a Muslim or not he has joined an anti-Islamic Government which beyond all doubt makes him an apostate, even if he pretends to pray and fast.

 O you who believe, do not take Jews and Christians as allies; these are allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these are of them. Allah does not guide the transgressors. [Qur'an 5:51]

And I hate it when these so called "modern" Muslims try to claim that there are "two kinds of Muslims" - those who do Jihad (which they claim is "evil") and those who dont!

These so called "modernists" are often not Muslim at all but are only pretending to be Muslims. Others are Muslim only by name because not only do they abandon much of the Shariah, they also speak against Jihad which is an obligation according to the Qur'an.

The deception that they use is that they claim that "fanatical Muslims" carried out the 9/11 attacks, and then they claim that anyone who does Jihad is somehow also partly responsible for 9/11 and other attacks on civilians.

This is while Osama bin Laden and other so called "fanatics" denied responsiblity for 9/11 and their Jihad is totally defensive. These so called "modern Muslims" are actually saying that it is wrong for Muslims to defend themselves simply because Osama bin Laden is accused of killing civilians !!! So just because some of those who do Jihad are Accused of killing civilians, then somehow Jihad becomes an "evil" thing!!

And at the same time these hypocrites ally with the western Governments against the Muslims, despite the fact that these Governments have killed hundreds of thousands of civilians (far more than bin laden ALLEGEDLY did).

May Allah protect us from the deception of the hypocrites, ameen.

I hate to derail this thread, but must respond to your rant.  Like it or not Muslims are by no means monolithic and without a doubt some are not only extremist (fanatical terrorist), but also ignorant of �Jihad� and its lawful purpose.  Maybe you should start a new discussion because what pertinence OBL and Jihad has to do with; �Is Barack Obama Muslim?� totally escapes me.   Killing innocent civilians is not Jihad it is murder and corruption in the land.  Lastly, I see nothing hypocritical about Muslims working with Western governments if it is fighting a common enemy (terrorist) who are a pestilence to all peace loving humans both Muslim and non-Muslim alike. 

Patty wrote: It is never good in the eyes of God Himself to deny your faith.

Whos said that Barack is doing such a thing ?

To hide his true religion would, and is, causing him problems, both here on earth and with our God.

Causing him problems ?? is it? or is it that people have a problem. And how can you tell that its causing problems with God?

-------------
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

Angel wrote:

"Whos said that Barack is doing such a thing ?"

Several folks have mentioned the "possibility" that he is doing that, Angel.  Re-read all the posts here.

I'm not saying he is doing that, what I am saying is that IF he is hiding his true religion, it is not being honest, and I doubt that Allah/God is pleased with anyone who chooses to hide their chosen religion.  That's all I meant.  Not that he is necessarily doing it.

Peace Always.

abuayisha wrote: I hate to derail this thread, but must respond to your rant.  Like it or not Muslims are by no means monolithic and without a doubt some are not only extremist (fanatical terrorist), but also ignorant of �Jihad� and its lawful purpose.  Maybe you should start a new discussion because what pertinence OBL and Jihad has to do with; �Is Barack Obama Muslim?� totally escapes me.   Killing innocent civilians is not Jihad it is murder and corruption in the land.  Lastly, I see nothing hypocritical about Muslims working with Western governments if it is fighting a common enemy (terrorist) who are a pestilence to all peace loving humans both Muslim and non-Muslim alike.

Exceptionally good post, abuayisha.  I totally agree with you.

God's Peace to You.

abuayisha wrote: I hate to derail this thread, but must respond to your rant.  Like it or not Muslims are by no means monolithic and without a doubt some are not only extremist (fanatical terrorist), but also ignorant of �Jihad� and its lawful purpose.  Maybe you should start a new discussion because what pertinence OBL and Jihad has to do with; �Is Barack Obama Muslim?� totally escapes me.   Killing innocent civilians is not Jihad it is murder and corruption in the land.  Lastly, I see nothing hypocritical about Muslims working with Western governments if it is fighting a common enemy (terrorist) who are a pestilence to all peace loving humans both Muslim and non-Muslim alike.

Like it or not you are brainwashed by the mainstream Media and the politicians. Like it or not alliance with Kuffar against Muslims is apostacy. Like it or not "terrorist" is a term used for Mujahideen and "fanatical" is a word used for Mo'mineen by the western Media.

And it had everything to do with Obama because if you read the earlier posts you would see that he had the same attitude as you, meaning that he used the lies of the western Governments to divide the Muslims into two groups:

1: "Terrorists" who go around killing everyone including women and children simply because they think it's fun.

2: "Modernists" who lick the blood of the Muslims from the hands of the American soldiers and bow at their feet thanking them for invading, bombing and murdering hundreds of thousands of Muslim civilians and then trying to justify their action (which is pure Kufr) by accusing religious Muslims ("fanatical terrorists") of every crime that Bush and co. accuse them of.

This is what the western Governments and their media want to do with Muslims. They want to devide us into these two groups, or at least make it seem like we are one of these two groups.

In other words we are either guilty of every single crime in the world, or we support the anti-Islamic Governments and prefer the laws of the Kuffar over the laws of Allah and believe every word on TV as if it is our God.

We should show that we are not on either side. We are not on the apostates side, and we are also not on the side of those who carried out 9/11 because there is simply no proof that the WTC attacks were carried out by Muslims. But ofcourse those who take TV as their God believe every lie that is fed to them by the enemies of Allah.

I would respond to the poster above me but doing so would ruin my brain so for health wise I'm staying to the present discussion. Patty you mentioned JFK mentioning his Roman Catholic faith. Please understand that Catholicism is still considered "Christian" or at least adheres to the Bible and some Chriatian philosophies. For a complete minority both ethnic and religious is a complete 360 turn for America. If he said "I'm Muslim" the conservatist especially in Congress would not allow it. They would see him without even judging as a president as showing favortism in to Muslim extremist. They would see him as favoriting the Palestinians over the Israelis and such.

I do not think politicians are completely objective of cours emost politicians do things in respect of their personal beliefs whether they expose them openly or not. For this man to black and Muslim (if he declares such) would be something this country would never except. I think Hillary Clinton would be in the White House before this man does. America is still not ready for pluralistic beliefs just yet. Although we preach inclusivity in the guise of democracy and such our policy makers are guided much by what they think "ought" to happen.

CNN debunks false report about Obama

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/index.html - http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/index. html

Patty wrote: Angel wrote: "Whos said that Barack is doing such a thing ?" Several folks have mentioned the "possibility" that he is doing that, Angel.  Re-read all the posts here.

I know what the folks are saying, and its only here, and the issue is basically because Barack doesn't seem either way, and i guess that is true But, its all spectulation taken from elsewhere.

I'm not saying he is doing that, what I am saying is that IF he is hiding his true religion, it is not being honest, and I doubt that Allah/God is pleased with anyone who chooses to hide their chosen religion.  That's all I meant.  Not that he is necessarily doing it.

I know you are not saying so and i understood you but still my questions remain. "IF" -  how can you tell that its causing problems with God? how is it displeasing God if one does not disclose ones religion to the whole world?

also did you not read what i mentioned earlier: whether Barack is muslim or not, and if he is muslim, and with the way some people are with islam and muslims, perhaps he is being careful about it, perhaps barack doesn't want his perference of what religion to overshadow his work, especially in a job like this.

Israfil said:

Patty you mentioned JFK mentioning his Roman Catholic faith. Please understand that Catholicism is still considered "Christian" or at least adheres to the Bible and some Chriatian philosophies.

For the most part, that is so in this day and age......although there are many Protestant churches, mainly Pentacostals and Apostolics who would immediately tell you how wrong you are on that one.  That we are lost....all Catholics are lost for all eternity....that's what they belief.

And in 1960, 47 years ago, it was MUCH worse.  Catholics were very much discriminated against in the then white, all male, middleclass American society. The very thought of anyone other than a white, male, Protestant as president was heresy in their eyes.  So for President Kennedy to state and very openly practice his faith was a giant leap forward (imo) in losing the discrimination to which Catholics, and especially IRISH CATHOLICS, had continually been subjected.  My own mother refused to vote for him simply because he was Catholic.  My father was a baptised Catholic.  It was very difficult then for Catholics, Israfil.  Not as difficult as it is for Muslims, and I admit that.  In time, I believe this will change too....just as it has for Catholics.  (Although there are still many who don't like us.) 

God's Peace!

Sawtul Khilafah wrote: abuayisha wrote: I hate to derail this thread, but must respond to your rant.  Like it or not Muslims are by no means monolithic and without a doubt some are not only extremist (fanatical terrorist), but also ignorant of �Jihad� and its lawful purpose.  Maybe you should start a new discussion because what pertinence OBL and Jihad has to do with; �Is Barack Obama Muslim?� totally escapes me.   Killing innocent civilians is not Jihad it is murder and corruption in the land.  Lastly, I see nothing hypocritical about Muslims working with Western governments if it is fighting a common enemy (terrorist) who are a pestilence to all peace loving humans both Muslim and non-Muslim alike.    Like it or not you are brainwashed by the mainstream Media and the politicians. Like it or not alliance with Kuffar against Muslims is apostacy. Like it or not "terrorist" is a term used for Mujahideen and "fanatical" is a word used for Mo'mineen by the western Media. And it had everything to do with Obama because if you read the earlier posts you would see that he had the same attitude as you, meaning that he used the lies of the western Governments to devide the Muslims into two groups: 1: "Terrorists" who go around killing everyone including women and children simply because they think it's fun. 2: "Modernists" who lick the blood of the Muslims from the hands of the American soldiers and bow at their feet thanking them for invading, bombing and murdering hundreds of thousands of Muslim civilians and then trying to justify their action (which is pure Kufr) by accusing religious Muslims ("fanatical terrorists") of every crime that Bush and co. accuse them of.   This is what the western Governments and their media want to do with Muslims. They want to devide us into these two groups, or at least make it seem like we are one of these two groups. In other words we are either guilty of every single crime in the world, or we support the anti-Islamic Governments and prefer the laws of the Kuffar over the laws of Allah and believe every word on TV as if it is our God. We should show that we are not on either side. We are not on the apostates side, and we are also not on the side of those who carried out 9/11 because there is simply no proof that the WTC attacks were carried out by Muslims. But ofcourse those who take TV as their God believe every lie that is fed to them by the enemies of Allah.

Why so hostile?  You must be terribly burdened down with all that hate you continue to carry for others.  God/Allah told us to "love our neighbors".  I don't see you doing that.  I won't debate you, because you are consumed with hatred for anything and anyone not Muslim.  I will pray for you every day, so that you can know joy and happiness, and learn that not everyone who is non-Muslim is a horrible killing machine.  May Allah reach into your heart and remove the hurt and the hate from it.

Peace.

Angel said:

Causing him problems ?? is it? or is it that people have a problem. And how can you tell that its causing problems with God?

God told us many times to "let our light shine before men", one of the 10 Commandments is "Thou shall not lie", another verse if "if you deny me before men, I will deny you before my Father who is in Heaven.  They are many, many more, Angel.  God is not happy when we attempt to deceive....even if it's by the sin of omission.

Peace, Angel!

Patty wrote: Why so hostile?  You must be terribly burdened down with all that hate you continue to carry for others.  God/Allah told us to "love our neighbors".  I don't see you doing that.  I won't debate you, because you are consumed with hatred for anything and anyone not Muslim.  I will pray for you every day, so that you can know joy and happiness, and learn that not everyone who is non-Muslim is a horrible killing machine.  May Allah reach into your heart and remove the hurt and the hate from it.

Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. (Quran 48:29)

And Im happy that you admit that the people I was speaking against are non-Muslims (in other words, apostates).

I was also not spreading "hate", but simpy telling the truth about the hypocrasy and double standards of those who claim to be Muslims but who ally with the enemies of Islam against true Muslims. I have no problem with Jews and Christians who truely believe in the Torah and the Bible.

"I have no problem with Jews and Christians who truely believe in the Torah and the Bible."

I'm happy to hear that.  I mistakenly thought you hated everyone who was not exactly like you.  My mistake.

Peace to You, Sawtul Khilafah

Patty,

I'm not trying to "water down" the negative experiences Catholics and other christians have faced in the 60's my point in my earlier comment was that politically as well as socially a man who is both Black and Muslim (Two properties which have a pre-existing stigma anyway) would not be accepted by most Americans. For one, the presidential canidate would have so much of an overwhelming expectancy from both sides White and Black that it would be hard (not impossible) to acheive American voter support. Although he may be popular among some progressive people in American society, the traditionalist and neo-conservatives would not accept him either way.

If he were Muslim and would declare that openly conservatives would have a field day, because to elect a Muslim for president one would offer the thought that such a canidate would not show resolve in the face of "Islamic terrorism." They would pressupose that this canidate would favor the retrieval of Palestinian territory over Zionist Philosophies of "rightful ownership." All these speculative thoughts would run pre-existing before the race starts (assuming if Barack would openly declare his religion as Islam).

What I'm saying Patty is America is not ready for change. We have been goverened and ran by old white men who are Christian for so long that the public has been programmed to believe this is the norm. When we want change especially in the political field it must be those progressive intellectuals to make those changes. I like Obama I'd like to see his views reagrding other domestic issues more indepth. But I also like Hilary Clinton because she brings with her a legacy which Bill Clinton established. To me, Bill Clinton was the "First Black President." I like what he did during the Palestinian/Israeli situation where he got Arafat and Sharon together to talk. I'd like to see more of that.

Sign*Reader wrote: Patty wrote: Hmmm, I remember a man in the past who was running for President.  He never hesitated to state proudly that he was a Roman Catholic.  And never before had a Catholic been elected to the Presidency.  His name was John F. Kennedy! My dear Patty: JFK's election wasn't easy despite having all the assistance factors and money available to him. Without, Johnson and Daly's role history would have been different! And then what was the end of all that?

I'm 62 years old.....I remember the entire campaign and know full well how difficult it was.  There was many a fight within families over John Kennedy's decision to run for president.  Some of the wounds from that election never healed.  Hard as it was for JFK, he DID win and broke ground for others of different faiths than Protestant.  That was my main point.  And that happened over 40 years ago.  So imagine what could happen today.  We (Americans) need to learn to vote for the most highly qualified person.  We must look beyond race, religion, and culture.  The President has to be one of very high morals, extremely intelligent....as well as possessing common sense, high ethical standards, fairness towards everyone..........AND SOMEONE WITH A PLAN FOR THE FUTURE OF AMERICA AND THE REST OF THE WORLD.  The world is getting smaller and smaller, and we need, rather we MUST have a president who will endeavor to treat each county with equal respect and value.  Nothing less with do.

I have to disagree with any idea of that person being Hillary Clinton.  I go back to the moral issues, and she does not (imo) fill the bill on that one.  I could never accept her and her pro-abortion beliefs.  Sorry, but I don't believe in murdering the most innocent little ones of all.  Also, her husband was an adulterous scumbag!  I don't understand how a woman could continue to live as his wife after all he has done to betray their marriage vows.  Perhaps I'm a prude, but I feel like I feel.  Call it women's intuition, but I don't trust her.  I would like to see a woman in the White House someday, IF she is truly the most highly qualified.  Hillary definitely is not.  I honestly believe she would sell her soul to win this election.  Okay, I'm done with my rant now.  I just can't tolerate this woman who is willing to stay with such a whore chasing dog, a real phoney, as Bill C.  He would never have been the President to me.  He was a disgrace!  Wheee, I feel better now.

We (Americans) need to learn to vote for the most highly qualified person.  We must look beyond race, religion, and culture.  The President has to be one of very high morals, extremely intelligent....as well as possessing common sense, high ethical standards, fairness towards everyone..........AND SOMEONE WITH A PLAN FOR THE FUTURE OF AMERICA AND THE REST OF THE WORLD.  The world is getting smaller and smaller, and we need, rather we MUST have a president who will endeavor to treat each county with equal respect and value.  Nothing less with do.

I love 2007. Patty has started to talk my lingo!

Call it women's intuition, but I don't trust her.

Ten out of ten for that, my friend. As they say, you can't put your finger on that, but ., . . .

At the end of the day, whatever faith Obama or anyone else, for that matter, follows would hardly matter in the system we have at hand. Nothing will change for the best of the Americans or the world at large as long as the people don't come to be the real base of power.

Today, the money and vested interests are the power base.

Not the people of the United States.

Patty you are showing apologist attitudes that I shared back in 2003 on religions. There is no such thing as equal treatment. If you believe there is then (for example) why don't girls share the same locker room with boys? We as people of society have been trained to think in terms of what is ethically acceptable or not. Patty you showed it by saying you wouldn't vote for a person that is pro-abortion. Either way the person who will be elected will not exact policies that are "equal" to all because the title of the president is to be a leader in the best interest of the people. The people don't always agree as you know this.

Patty you said:

"The President has to be one of very high morals, extremely intelligent....as well as possessing common sense, high ethical standards, fairness towards everyone..........AND SOMEONE WITH A PLAN FOR THE FUTURE OF AMERICA AND THE REST OF THE WORLD.  The world is getting smaller and smaller, and we need, rather we MUST have a president who will endeavor to treat each county with equal respect and value.  Nothing less with do."

This is a good comment but its still an idealist way of the descriptive way of thinking. You are saying the the president "ought" to be moral and intelligent. But who decides morality? Among conservatives an atheist, pro-abortion president would be consider immoral and unethical for his personal beliefs but how do we know that such a person would not be a great leader. In my belief an atheist president would definitely fulfill the part of the consitution of secularism (Separation of Church and State).

Also we cannot always treat each country equally especially if there are certain entities in specific countries that have sub-groups that wish to do us harm. So should an ideal president deal with a Hamas government the same way he/she does with a Norwegian government? The tricky issue with political ethics is that the result exposes our extreme ideals and values. If Barack Obama is our future president first I'd like to acknowledge this moment and say this man made history in being the first minority (and Black man) as president. Second, I hope he can enforce fair policies. By fairness I mean what is due by other entities who deserve it.

I hope the president focuses on domestic issue. At this point my attitude is "let the world destroy itself." Terrorism is more prevelant here in the streets than in Afghanistan. I agree Patty that this president should be intelligent but not emphasizing academia since being academic does not make one automatically intelligent. Rather, a sense of understanding of how the world is and how to be versatile. How to adapt to bad situations and able to make conclusions. I'm tired of religious presidents. I'm tired of religions in politics period. We see even in Islamic countries that religion within politics fail. Those types of governments fail. Their economy fails.

A change in governmental policies starts now and hopefully these prospects have what it takes.

Assalam 3ailkum

as a muslim and an american citizen I AM going to vote for Obama. first he's a democrate and the U.S. really needs a change. Bush is a republican and he really messed things up. the only reason he went into Iraq was to be put down in history as a president who fought a war. by the way his approval rating is about 23%. the american people are fed up with the republicans, and i believe they will vote democrat as they did in the senate and in the congress. and Obama is MUCH better than hillary clinton. so thats why IM VOTING OBAMA

as a muslim and an american citizen I AM going to vote for Obama. first he's a democrate and the U.S. really needs a change. Bush is a republican and he really messed things up. the only reason he went into Iraq was to be put down in history as a president who fought a war. by the way his approval rating is about 23%. the american people are fed up with the republicans, and i believe they will vote democrat as they did in the senate and in the congress. and Obama is MUCH better than hillary clinton. so thats why IM VOTING OBAMA

Congrats my brother for being proper American. They say, you are a proper American whenyou start to believe that your vote matters and also wondering why the world hates you!!

Brother, try your vote whichever way you chose, change won't come. The system is bound and gagged by Cap It All ism. And, your admin has been hi-jacked by A E I and the other Zionist outfits.

Read Carter's book and a few others, might help in waking up, though with a few painful yawns, but it will.  

Patty wrote: Angel said: Causing him problems ?? is it? or is it that people have a problem. And how can you tell that its causing problems with God? God told us many times to "let our light shine before men", one of the 10 Commandments is "Thou shall not lie", another verse if "if you deny me before men, I will deny you before my Father who is in Heaven.  They are many, many more, Angel.  God is not happy when we attempt to deceive....even if it's by the sin of omission. Peace, Angel!

I really don't dispute that, but I don't see (if Barack is not telling) where Barack is doing that? Where is barack denying God before men? or decieving God by not telling people his religion?

let our light shine before men, yes but I don't think its an order  and if we don't let our light shine its not lying either.

I think you are on a wrong turn here  

I really don't see the big deal that Barack is not sharing (at least at this stage/moment) what religion he belongs to. As I mentioned if he is muslim it will overshadow him, reread my first post as to why.

Israfil wrote: Patty you are showing apologist attitudes that I shared back in 2003 on religions. There is no such thing as equal treatment. If you believe there is then (for example) why don't girls share the same locker room with boys? We as people of society have been trained to think in terms of what is ethically acceptable or not. Patty you showed it by saying you wouldn't vote for a person that is pro-abortion. Either way the person who will be elected will not exact policies that are "equal" to all because the title of the president is to be a leader in the best interest of the people. The people don't always agree as you know this. Patty you said: "The President has to be one of very high morals, extremely intelligent....as well as possessing common sense, high ethical standards, fairness towards everyone..........AND SOMEONE WITH A PLAN FOR THE FUTURE OF AMERICA AND THE REST OF THE WORLD.  The world is getting smaller and smaller, and we need, rather we MUST have a president who will endeavor to treat each county with equal respect and value.  Nothing less with do." This is a good comment but its still an idealist way of the descriptive way of thinking. You are saying the the president "ought" to be moral and intelligent. But who decides morality? Among conservatives an atheist, pro-abortion president would be consider immoral and unethical for his personal beliefs but how do we know that such a person would not be a great leader. In my belief an atheist president would definitely fulfill the part of the consitution of secularism (Separation of Church and State). Also we cannot always treat each country equally especially if there are certain entities in specific countries that have sub-groups that wish to do us harm. So should an ideal president deal with a Hamas government the same way he/she does with a Norwegian government? The tricky issue with political ethics is that the result exposes our extreme ideals and values. If Barack Obama is our future president first I'd like to acknowledge this moment and say this man made history in being the first minority (and Black man) as president. Second, I hope he can enforce fair policies. By fairness I mean what is due by other entities who deserve it. I hope the president focuses on domestic issue. At this point my attitude is "let the world destroy itself." Terrorism is more prevelant here in the streets than in Afghanistan. I agree Patty that this president should be intelligent but not emphasizing academia since being academic does not make one automatically intelligent. Rather, a sense of understanding of how the world is and how to be versatile. How to adapt to bad situations and able to make conclusions. I'm tired of religious presidents. I'm tired of religions in politics period. We see even in Islamic countries that religion within politics fail. Those types of governments fail. Their economy fails. A change in governmental policies starts now and hopefully these prospects have what it takes.

You are saying the the president "ought" to be moral and intelligent. But who decides morality? Among conservatives an atheist, pro-abortion president would be consider immoral and unethical for his personal beliefs but how do we know that such a person would not be a great leader. In my belief an atheist president would definitely fulfill the part of the consitution of secularism (Separation of Church and State).

exactly.

And I guess having an atheist president is idealistic too, because what would happen to "under one god"  

Bring back Al Gore:  The Man Who Would (have) Be (en) President.  The real issue is environmental:   Global Warming is dominating the newspapers.  It is this which we should be concerning ourselves with before it is too late.

Cassie

Cassandra wrote: Bring back Al Gore:  The Man Who Would (have) Be (en) President.  The real issue is environmental:   Global Warming is dominating the newspapers.  It is this which we should be concerning ourselves with before it is too late. Cassie

Hi Cassie!!

Global Warming??  Don't even say the word to me right now, as I cozy up to our wood stove and attempt to tough out this -20 degree temperatures!  LOL!  There are just as many scientists saying this is not global warming as there are saying it is.  I'm studying up on the whole thing from both sides....not from Al Gore though, but respected and renowned scientists from both sides of the debate.  GREAT to hear from you again!

Israfil,

Your comment regarding women not using men's locker rooms has nothing to do with equality, rather, I feel it is more about morality and modesty.  I'm not in the mood to get into a "debate" about whose morals are just the greatest.  We all have our own beliefs/moral values and we all know they may differ in some respects.  I like Barrack Obama.  I do not care for H. Clinton as a politician.  She may well be a lovely person, but I cringe everytime she opens her mouth. That is only my opinion, my friend.  I don't mean to change your's or to downplay your beliefs in any manner.

God's Peace.

Angel said,

"I think you are on a wrong turn here."

Me?  Never! 

"I really don't see the big deal that Barack is not sharing (at least at this stage/moment) what religion he belongs to. As I mentioned if he is muslim it will overshadow him, reread my first post as to why."

Well, girlfriend, if you can't see the importance of a prospective candidate for the Presidency's need to be 100% honest, I certainly am not the one to try to explain it to you.  Maybe someone else here can give it a try.  As I have said, I like him, but if I found out he was being dishonest, I would probably have to rethink my position and trudge back to the "drawing board." 

Peace Angel.

Video of Obama's school http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/world/2007/01/22/vause.obama.school.cnn&wm=10 - http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/world /2007/01/22/vause.obama.school.cnn&wm=10

It wouldn't matter to me if Obama is Muslim.  I like him very much, as far as his politics go, and he appears to be a very straighforward, honest and respectable young man.  Extremely intelligent.  What more could we want? 

God's Peace.

Patty wrote: It wouldn't matter to me if Obama is Muslim.  I like him very much, as far as his politics go, and he appears to be a very straighforward, honest and respectable young man.  Extremely intelligent.  What more could we want?  God's Peace.

I agree. He's like a cool, clear breeze blowing through a dark and musty room. I remember how excited I was when I first heard him speak at the Democratic Convention in 2004 (I think it was in '04).

Hanan wrote: Patty wrote: It wouldn't matter to me if Obama is Muslim.  I like him very much, as far as his politics go, and he appears to be a very straighforward, honest and respectable young man.  Extremely intelligent.  What more could we want?  God's Peace. I agree. He's like a cool, clear breeze blowing through a dark and musty room. I remember how excited I was when I first heard him speak at the Democratic Convention in 2004 (I think it was in '04).

The first time I ever saw him or heard of him was when he was making  his acceptance speech for Senator in Chicago.  (I DO live a very isolated life...by choice mostly.)  He was positively brilliant!  And yes, Hanan, he is like a breath of fresh air, isn't he?  He is so upbeat and positive, and he exudes confidence.  I am very impressed with him.

God's Peace. 

Patty wrote: Angel said, "I think you are on a wrong turn here." Me?  Never!  "I really don't see the big deal that Barack is not sharing (at least at this stage/moment) what religion he belongs to. As I mentioned if he is muslim it will overshadow him, reread my first post as to why." Well, girlfriend, if you can't see the importance of a prospective candidate for the Presidency's need to be 100% honest, I certainly am not the one to try to explain it to you.  Maybe someone else here can give it a try.  As I have said, I like him, but if I found out he was being dishonest, I would probably have to rethink my position and trudge back to the "drawing board."  Peace Angel.

NO, I do get you, I understand you

How is not sharing being dishonest?

Israfil is the only person who got me clear as crystal.  

Angel wrote: Patty wrote: Angel said, "I think you are on a wrong turn here." Me?  Never!  "I really don't see the big deal that Barack is not sharing (at least at this stage/moment) what religion he belongs to. As I mentioned if he is muslim it will overshadow him, reread my first post as to why." Well, girlfriend, if you can't see the importance of a prospective candidate for the Presidency's need to be 100% honest, I certainly am not the one to try to explain it to you.  Maybe someone else here can give it a try.  As I have said, I like him, but if I found out he was being dishonest, I would probably have to rethink my position and trudge back to the "drawing board."  Peace Angel. NO, I do get you, I understand you How is not sharing being dishonest? Israfil is the only person who got me clear as crystal.

It is the omission of a very important piece of his life which would or could cause a lot of distrust for him.  If Israfil "got your opinion" be happy and content with that.  I don't agree, that's all.  A difference of opinion.  I believe, as I have now stated twice, that it is very important that anyone running for public office be right up front about who they really are, and what they really believe.  You don't think it matters, so we just have a difference of opinion.  Let it rest at that, Angel.

I think that anyone running for political office must be honest and forthright, regardless of how unimportant the issue may be. If, for instance, Barack Obama is elected president, and during his presidency the media get's ahold of an unreported/undisclosed issue, it would distract/disrupt him from governing the country, a la Clinton. I think Obama is smart enough to get everything out in the open now, and there won't be any muck left to rack in '08.

Peace, Hanan

Hanan wrote: I think that anyone running for political office must be honest and forthright, regardless of how unimportant the issue may be. If, for instance, Barack Obama is elected president, and during his presidency the media get's ahold of an unreported/undisclosed issue, it would distract/disrupt him from governing the country, a la Clinton. I think Obama is smart enough to get everything out in the open now, and there won't be any muck left to rack in '08. Peace, Hanan

Thanks, Hanan.  That's what I've been attempting to say.

Whisper wrote: At the end of the day, whatever faith Obama or anyone else, for that matter, follows would hardly matter in the system we have at hand. Nothing will change for the best of the Americans or the world at large as long as the people don't come to be the real base of power. Today, the money and vested interests are the power base. Not the people of the United States.

Asalaamu alaikum..

That statement is the truth, dear brother..

Tell your dear Sig other to give you a big hug for me!

She is a rare jewel herself.