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Why believe in Islam?

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Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Description: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
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Topic: Why believe in Islam?
Posted By: Josh_345
Subject: Why believe in Islam?
Date Posted: 02 January 2007 at 12:23am
I`m a Christain, and Islam doesent make any sense. (please dont be offended, leave if you might be :))


Anyways, I am a christain. I will admit i`m not the strongest Christain. I believe Islam was created by Satan, and he told Muhammed this. Also Christainity makes more sense.
The Bible says Iseral would come back (I think it does im 99% sure) and Iseral is back.
Thats just my thoughts.



Replies:
Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 02 January 2007 at 1:18am

You mean Israel the country? If so, than so does the Quran and the hadith (sayings of the prophet which were written down).

Brother I think you're being a little biased. Islam is the most rational relegion. Christianity teaches of the original sin. That because Adam and Eve sinned, every man sins. Even children are born sinners. This is rejected by Islam. Islam says that you are responsible for your own deeds, the good and bad, you're not responsible for the deeds done by your greatest father milions of years ago. If your father steals, God forbid, can we throw you in jail? You say no thats not fair. I say exactly than why would God make you in account of something you never did.

Islam believes in One God who has no partners, He is perfect, and Merciful.

As for Islam being created by Satan, brother, you only believe that because you barely know anything about Islam.

Read the Quran, and than tell me if you still believe that it was created by Satan.

Satan creats evil, Islam is not evil.

Also, you speak of prophecies, the prophet Mohammed prophecised of many things to come and that have happened including:

Telivisions, radios, the Gulf war, the sanctions possed on Iraq after the gulf war, and many many other things.

I advice you to study Islam before judging it. Read the Quran, understand the basics of Islam, read Mohammeds biography (you can find it on amazon its called Mohammed written by Martin Lings).

 



Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 02 January 2007 at 1:23am

You see if Satan created Islam, which would Satan chose to create, a religion which propagates worshiping idols, or worshiping God alone? of course, idols. At the time of Mohammed most the Arabs were idol worshipers they worship almost 360 Gods. Than comes along Mohammed who proclaims that God is one who has no partners. That Jesus was the Christ, the Messiah, he was born a miraculous birth, he gave life to the dead by Gods permission, and his mother Marry was the most rightouse women that ever lived. That you must give charity. That you mustnt kill innocent people. That a smile is a form of charity. That alcohol is forbidden. That high manners and ethics are very important. Satan inspires this? Please, please, stop. All Muslims say before they start there prayer "I seek refuge in Allah from Satan". (Allah means God in arabic). Why on earth would Satan do this, its crazy.

If satan were to inspire anything, he would have at least left the Arabs they way they were before Islam, drunkards, and murderers, and idol worshipers.

Brother do yourself a favour and study Islam.



Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 02 January 2007 at 1:27am

heres an introduction:

http://www.islam-guide.com - www.islam-guide.com

Mohammed:

http://www.prophetofislam.com/ - http://www.prophetofislam.com/

Islam: (another, better introduction)

http://www.whatsislam.com/ - http://www.whatsislam.com/



Posted By: Josh_345
Date Posted: 02 January 2007 at 11:08am

Your saying Satan wouldn`t make up Islam because Islam is too nice? I hate to break it to you, but Islam is not peaceful, its a mess in the middle east Also Satan probably created Islam to have some truth and good things to trick people to leaving Christainity. Also Islam came way after Christainity.


Posted By: Patty
Date Posted: 02 January 2007 at 11:21am

Dear Josh, you said the following:

"Also Islam came way after Christainity. "

Yes, so it did.  I am a Roman Catholic.  All the other Protestant churches came long after Jesus Christ Himself instituted St. Peter as the first head of the Church....or made him the first Pope.  The Protestant's were unhappy with some of the Catholic doctrine (rules) and decided to leave and begin their own churches with their own beliefs.  They still do it yet today....if they decide they don't like the doctrine of whatever church they belong to, they break away and start another church.  Only the Roman Catholic Church has been in existance since the time of Christ Himself.

I understand you are sincere....and I know what sort of information you have been reading/studying....as well the the people you are listening to.  Please educate yourself before you come here and begin to insult a whole religion and people.  You are probably quite young and have many bad feelings about situations in the world.  Well, we all do, don't we?  But how do we handle these feelings?  Certainly not by going around creating more hard feelings and chaos.  We are ALL God's children.  Don't ever forget that, Josh!  God loves every single one of us.....what a shame we don't follow his mandate and "love each other as I have loved you." 

You can disagree with people without being rude and abrupt with them.  Sometimes it's more how you say something than what you say.  Oh, please learn how to spell "Christian", it's not Christain.

God Love You!



-------------
Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.


Posted By: Andalus
Date Posted: 02 January 2007 at 1:07pm

Originally posted by Josh_345 Josh_345 wrote:

I`m a Christain, and Islam doesent make any sense. (please dont be offended, leave if you might be :))


Anyways, I am a christain. I will admit i`m not the strongest Christain. I believe Islam was created by Satan, and he told Muhammed this.

What is the evidence that has lead you to this belief?

Quote

Also Christainity makes more sense.

How does it make more sense to you and where does Islamic Theology go wrong?

Quote
The Bible says Iseral would come back (I think it does im 99% sure) and Iseral is back.
Thats just my thoughts.

What prophecy are you referring to?



-------------
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/


Posted By: sgeorge5
Date Posted: 02 January 2007 at 1:24pm

Josh,

I agree with Patty.  Your statements sound a little juvenile, but then you may be a juvenile.  But if you are going to claim that Islam was created by Satan, first you need to set up a set of rules to apply to a religion in order to determine that.  Then you need to apply those rules to various religions; such as, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Christianity, ect. and to do it in a fair manner  Then you will have specific reasons for claiming that a religion was started by Satan.  Also, you might want to research the origin of the concept of Satan.  Try the Zoroastrian religion for that one.  As it is, you gave no reason for your claim.  Of course, first you will have to learn a little about each of these religions in order to have something to compare.  There is a lot of info out there.  You, just, need to Google away for that knowledge.

You do need to be corrected on one other thing.  While Israel is back, the Bible never claimed that Israel would come back.  In fact, it never said it would leave!

Good luck,

Sid

Dear Sid, just fixed and restored Satan.  Hope you didn't mind.

BR

BMZ

 



Posted By: Andalus
Date Posted: 02 January 2007 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by sgeorge5 sgeorge5 wrote:

Josh,

I agree with Patty.  Your statements sound a little juvenile, but then you may be a juvenile.  But if you are going to claim that Islam was created by Satin, first you need to set up a set of rules to apply to a religion in order to determine that.  Then you need to apply those rules to various religions; such as, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Christianity, ect. and to do it in a fair manner  Then you will have specific reasons for claiming that a religion was started by Satin.  Also, you might want to research the origin of the concept of Satin.  Try the Zoroastrian religion for that one.  As it is, you gave no reason for your claim.  Of course, first you will have to learn a little about each of these religions in order to have something to compare.  There is a lot of info out there.  You, just, need to Google away for that knowledge.

You do need to be corrected on one other thing.  While Israel is back, the Bible never claimed that Israel would come back.  In fact, it never said it would leave!

Good luck,

Sid

 

Enjoying your contributions. Thanks for adding a voice of neutral sanity. I think you will enjoy Servetus and Cyril (there are others but I have a lot on m plate at this moment..cannot think), they also add sound ideas, even if they do not always agree with Islam. Sometimes we all must Agree to disagree, which is no sin!



-------------
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/


Posted By: Andalus
Date Posted: 02 January 2007 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by Patty Patty wrote:

Dear Josh, you said the following:

"Also Islam came way after Christainity. "

Yes, so it did.  I am a Roman Catholic.  All the other Protestant churches came long after Jesus Christ Himself instituted St. Peter as the first head of the Church....or made him the first Pope.  The Protestant's were unhappy with some of the Catholic doctrine (rules) and decided to leave and begin their own churches with their own beliefs.  They still do it yet today....if they decide they don't like the doctrine of whatever church they belong to, they break away and start another church.  Only the Roman Catholic Church has been in existance since the time of Christ Himself.

I understand you are sincere....and I know what sort of information you have been reading/studying....as well the the people you are listening to.  Please educate yourself before you come here and begin to insult a whole religion and people.  You are probably quite young and have many bad feelings about situations in the world.  Well, we all do, don't we?  But how do we handle these feelings?  Certainly not by going around creating more hard feelings and chaos.  We are ALL God's children.  Don't ever forget that, Josh!  God loves every single one of us.....what a shame we don't follow his mandate and "love each other as I have loved you." 

You can disagree with people without being rude and abrupt with them.  Sometimes it's more how you say something than what you say.  Oh, please learn how to spell "Christian", it's not Christain.

God Love You!

enjoyed your post Patty. Nice to see you back. Hope your holidays are fulfilling and safe.



-------------
A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/


Posted By: Patty
Date Posted: 02 January 2007 at 4:16pm

"enjoyed your post Patty. Nice to see you back. Hope your holidays are fulfilling and safe."

Ditto, Andalus!  It's good to be posting here again.  I also wish you peace and joy in the New Year.

 




-------------
Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.


Posted By: Hanan
Date Posted: 02 January 2007 at 8:18pm

.



Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 02 January 2007 at 8:56pm


Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 03 January 2007 at 3:13am

Hanan,

I second thee along with Arab.

BMZ



Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 03 January 2007 at 3:19am
Pardon my ignorace but what does it mean to "second thee"


Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 03 January 2007 at 5:40am

It means I support you and agree with your proposal.

For example, you nominated Josh for poster of the year and I second that.



Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 03 January 2007 at 5:56am
loool  I dont second that!


Posted By: Patty
Date Posted: 03 January 2007 at 7:54am

I read that Josh DOES believe wholeheartedly in Satan....as he stated Islam was started by Satan (unless I read him wrong.)  I do not believe this to be true.  Of course he has a right to his opinion.  But he may benefit from studying and learning a little more about different religions before making such statements. 

He stated he was a "new" Christian, and as such he may need a little guidance...especially in the area of politeness.  No harm meant, Josh. You're more than welcome to express your opinions.  We may not always agree with them, but no one agrees with everyone, everytime.

God Bless You, Josh!



-------------
Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.


Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 03 January 2007 at 8:49am

Josh,

Patty is right. You are welcome and free to express your views as long as they are decently conveyed.

By the way, Satan is a sworn enemy of God Almighty. Why would he show the true path to lead to the One Lord Almighty?  His job is to lead people away from God and he does not like God.

BMZ



Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 03 January 2007 at 8:51am

Arab,

"loool  I dont second that! "

That was an example, neither did I really mean that!



Posted By: sgeorge5
Date Posted: 05 January 2007 at 4:03pm

Patty,

Pls join us in the SLAVERY discussion.  I would like to hear your opinion.

Sid



-------------
Sid


Posted By: amlhabibi2000
Date Posted: 14 January 2007 at 8:12am

 

Slavery is inhuman and is against the law in most countries.

It is inhuman to own any person.

 



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Judgement day passes in the moment we decide something needs attention & we take positive action. Then there will be a great sorting out of people into groups, Inspired by Surah 99 Ayat 1-8


Posted By: sgeorge5
Date Posted: 16 January 2007 at 11:31am
 

-------------
Sid


Posted By: sgeorge5
Date Posted: 16 January 2007 at 11:45am
I can not get this file into this website, but send me your email address and I will send to you the info.  I do not seem to know how to "cut & paste" here.  Be advised, that it is not in English.

-------------
Sid


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 16 January 2007 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by sgeorge5 sgeorge5 wrote:

I can not get this file into this website, but send me your email address and I will send to you the info.  I do not seem to know how to "cut & paste" here.  Be advised, that it is not in English.


Why can't you explain the contents of the file, if you know what it is



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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 16 January 2007 at 9:44pm
Originally posted by Josh_345 Josh_345 wrote:

I`m a Christain, and Islam doesent make any sense. (please dont be offended, leave if you might be :))
Anyways, I am a christain. I will admit i`m not the strongest Christain.

This composition of yours does not give any sign of great scholarship to be credible.
Who gave you the idea that IC board is place for your confessions?
From the looks of your writing it doesn't seem from a disciple of Jesus but some from dark and troubled soul crying for help.
Originally posted by Josh_345 Josh_345 wrote:

I believe Islam was created by Satan, and he told Muhammed this.

The only way you can state with such certainty if Mr. Satan happens to be lurking in your heart or round about.
Originally posted by Josh_345 Josh_345 wrote:


 Also Christainity makes more sense.
The Bible says Iseral would come back (I think it does im 99% sure) and Iseral is back.
Thats just my thoughts.

More bad English, You are giving the Christ a bad name; the tree is known by it's fruits. I see you are thinking with nothing to think with and this a fact for all readers to see. I hope and pray that some one knowledgeable intervenes and educates your troubled soul.


-------------
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: Patty
Date Posted: 19 January 2007 at 7:30am

I think after such a long period of time, that Mr. Joshua has left the building.  Too bad...he may have been learned some valuable information if he had remained patient and chosen to stay for awhile.

God's Peace.



-------------
Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.


Posted By: yasha
Date Posted: 20 January 2007 at 3:22pm
Josh,

I've noticed that you've been attacked, somewhat, by various users.
So if you don't mind, I'll help you get started.

Originally posted by Arab Arab wrote:

You see if Satan created Islam, which would Satan chose to create, a religion which propagates worshiping idols, or worshiping God alone? of course, idols.

An interesting question.  The answer would involve a study of Satan, his character, as presented in the bible.  And at best we would try and deduce what kind of 'religion' he would create and if Islam might qualify.  I invite you to list off the traits of Satan, according to Islam.  I'll provide a few points according to the bible.  Lets see if we can find Any common ground regarding this being. 

Here are a few points: (scriptures availble upon request)

1) Satan masquerades as an angel of light.
2) Satan is the great imitater.
3) Satan desires to be like God.

Therefore if Satan were to invent a religion, we might expect it to imitate God's religion, with an outward appearance of rightousness. 

Would he "propagate the worship of idols, or God alone".
I would say he would propage the worship of himself, and probably himself alone.  He would set set himself up as if he were God and require worship of him alone.

Quote
At the time of Mohammed most the Arabs were idol worshipers they worship almost 360 Gods. Than comes along Mohammed who proclaims that God is one who has no partners. That Jesus was the Christ, the Messiah, he was born a miraculous birth, he gave life to the dead by Gods permission, and his mother Marry was the most rightouse women that ever lived. That you must give charity. That you mustnt kill innocent people. That a smile is a form of charity. That alcohol is forbidden. That high manners and ethics are very important. Satan inspires this? Please, please, stop. All Muslims say before they start there prayer "I seek refuge in Allah from Satan". (Allah means God in arabic). Why on earth would Satan do this, its crazy.


If Satan were to do such a thing, it would be quite a deception wouldn't it?  I believe deception is a quality that Satan also posesses.

From a Christian point of view, Satan is defeated in Christ.  Therefore all Satan need do is prevent people from accepting the salvation offered by Christ.   With out Christ people are on their own.  And their sin will kill them, no matter how many good deeds they posess. 

Yasha,

2 Cor 11:14-15
14    And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
15    It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
(NIV)


Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 20 January 2007 at 10:01pm

yasha,

Good to see you helping Josh.

As for "Why believe in Islam?", the answer is very simple. Islam leads us to the One God, the Lord Almighty. There is no adulteration in God and the Magnificience of God Almighty remains the Most High.

Some comments, in response:

From you: "An interesting question.  The answer would involve a study of Satan, his character, as presented in the bible.  And at best we would try and deduce what kind of 'religion' he would create and if Islam might qualify.  I invite you to list off the traits of Satan, according to Islam.  I'll provide a few points according to the bible.  Lets see if we can find Any common ground regarding this being."

Satan is not into the business of creating religions. Satan wants simply to lead people away from the Lord Almighty. Even Jesus was attcked by him. But Jesus kicked him out. So far the world has never heard of any religion created by Satan.  

From you; "Here are a few points: (scriptures availble upon request)

1) Satan masquerades as an angel of light.
2) Satan is the great imitater.
3) Satan desires to be like God.

Therefore if Satan were to invent a religion, we might expect it to imitate God's religion, with an outward appearance of rightousness."

Satan is neither an angel nor an ex-angel or light. He has his own powers and does not have to imitate. Satan's desire is to lead humanity away from God and that's what he is after. I don't think he has any desires to be like God for he knows God Almighty and His Powers well! He knows he was created and also knows that he can be destroyed. 

For more information on how Satan has been described as an evil, you will have to read and understand Qur'aan, which is the only Book that describes Satan's revolt against God and tells us how he became a sworn enemy of God after making sure he got a respite till the Judgement day.  Is there any account of that in the Bible?


From you: "If Satan were to do such a thing, it would be quite a deception wouldn't it?  I believe deception is a quality that Satan also posesses."

Satan has many qualities and his job is to mislead people and make them go astray, with whatever means he has.  

From you: "From a Christian point of view, Satan is defeated in Christ.  Therefore all Satan need do is prevent people from accepting the salvation offered by Christ. With out Christ people are on their own.  And their sin will kill them, no matter how many good deeds they posess."

Satan was never defeated and still remains fully active. Even Jesus Christ could not kill or destroy him. Sins, death, illnesses, bloodshed, deception, hate, wars, plundering and all evils continue. Nothing has changed. To say that Satan is defeated in Christ is void. People knew of a life hereafter several milleniums before Jesus. In fact, if you look at Jesus' 1-3 years of ministry, you can see what Satan did during that period and after Jesus was gone.

BMZ



 



Posted By: yasha
Date Posted: 21 January 2007 at 8:21am

Quote

Satan is not into the business of creating religions. Satan wants simply to lead people away from the Lord Almighty. Even Jesus was attcked by him. But Jesus kicked him out. So far the world has never heard of any religion created by Satan.  

People are religious by nature.  They need to worship.  Redirecting their worship is how one is led away from the Lord.  If Satan's business is to lead people away from God, then he MUST be in the business of creating religions.  However the biblical perspective is quite clear on Satan desireing worship.

Matt 4:8-9
8    Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9    "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
(NIV)

Rev 13:4
4    Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?"
(NIV)

Rev 13:13
13    And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.
(NIV)

Quote

He has his own For more information on how Satan has been described as an evil, you will have to read and understand Qur'aan, which is the only Book that describes Satan's revolt against God and tells us how he became a sworn enemy of God after making sure he got a respite till the Judgement day.  Is there any account of that in the Bible?

The qur'ans story, which has a jewish origin, is not found in the bible.  There are only hints of Satan's fall, but enough.

For example, many under stand this to be referring to Satan.

Isa 14:12-15
12    How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
13    You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.
14    I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High."
15    But you are brought down to the grave, to the depths of the pit.
(NIV)

Pride was what began the fall.  In this we can at least agree.  But notice also the desire to be like God.  There is more if you are interested.

Quote

Satan was never defeated and still remains fully active. Even Jesus Christ could not kill or destroy him. Sins, death, illnesses, bloodshed, deception, hate, wars, plundering and all evils continue. Nothing has changed. To say that Satan is defeated in Christ is void. People knew of a life hereafter several milleniums before Jesus. In fact, if you look at Jesus' 1-3 years of ministry, you can see what Satan did during that period and after Jesus was gone.

As you may know, in Christianity it is through Christ, only, that one can be saved.  All Satan needs to do is keep people from believing the NT.  Islam, at present, it seems, teaches people to reject the gospel, which is to reject the forgiveness of sins, reject salvation, reject God.  This is why many Christian believe Islam to be Satanic in origin.  Satan in already defeated, it's just a matter of time.  Those in Christ are already saved.  All his effort is undone with Christ, that is why it is first priority to keep people from believing the good news.  If people try to lead good lives (as muslims are supposed to), yet reject salvation through Christ (which muslims do), then Satan is victorious in their lives.   But in Christ Satan is defeated.

Yasha.


Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 21 January 2007 at 9:15pm

yasha,

From you: "People are religious by nature.  They need to worship.  Redirecting their worship is how one is led away from the Lord.  If Satan's business is to lead people away from God, then he MUST be in the business of creating religions.  However the biblical perspective is quite clear on Satan desireing worship."

Not necessarily. To lead people away is Satan's business. satan just does not want people to obey and listen to God. He deceived Adam and Eve and tricked them both into eating the fruit. All religions believe in this story. 

From you: "Matt 4:8-9
8    Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9    "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
(NIV)"

Ok, I can accept that according to the story which tells me that the temptation was specially and specifically organised and arranged by God for Jesus and the Spirit led him into the desert to be tested by Satan. I don't know why God had to test him after declaring so boldly and loudly from heavens "This is my son with whom I am pleased." I think God should not have done that if He were pleased with his son. If I am pleased with my son, I would not push him into difficulties and trials.

Anyway, Satan asked him to worship him but Jesus answered,"It is written:'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.' " This is a huge statement, don't you think, keeping in mind the word only?

And I think the above statement should have reverberated throughout the Bible but unfortunately, it did not. Why was that so and who did the diluting of that statement? I am not saying that it was done 100% by Satan. What do you think?

I do not discuss anything from the chapter of Revelations, as it's John's own dream, vision or thoughts. It's his own story and the chapter had been in and out of the Bible quite a few times according to Christian scholars and historians but finally was left in. Hence I have no comments.

From you: "The qur'ans story, which has a jewish origin, is not found in the bible.  There are only hints of Satan's fall, but enough."

All the Scriptures, mostly have the Hebrew and the Jewish origin. The OT of the Christians is a 100% copy of the Jewish Holy Scriptures, with quite  afew changes made, where necessary but the interpretation done is entirely different and the funny part is that the Jews are not aware of.  

From you: "As you may know, in Christianity it is through Christ, only, that one can be saved."

Yes, I am aware of that but one must know that according to Isaiah and other Prophets, one can only be saved by the Saviour only, who is the Lord Almighty. And remember that the words of the Lord Almighty never change. Whatever God Almighty uttered through Isaiah, uttered in all Integrity sworn by God Almighty Himself.

How did that change from the Lord Almighty to Jesus? Was it posssibly the work of Satan? 

From you: "All Satan needs to do is keep people from believing the NT.  Islam, at present, it seems, teaches people to reject the gospel, which is to reject the forgiveness of sins, reject salvation, reject God." 

I don't think so. Satan does not want people to believe in any book that has got anything to do with God.

Islam does not reject the teachings of Jesus, for Jesus taught the words of God from the Torah, spoke about God and asked people to worship only God Almighty with all their herats, minds and souls. Who then asked people to worship Jesus? Satan?

Islam does not reject forgiveness of sins, salvation and God. Islam says,"believe only in God, the Lord Almighty, have full faith and trust in the Lord Almighty and one would have one's sins forgiven and one would have salvation from God Almighty only, not from anybodyelse. it is that simple. I believe all those, who believe in God Almighty, are saved. This is where, you don't have to point a finger to the moon. Just look at it direct.

From you: "This is why many Christian believe Islam to be Satanic in origin.  Satan in already defeated, it's just a matter of time.  Those in Christ are already saved.  All his effort is undone with Christ, that is why it is first priority to keep people from believing the good news.  If people try to lead good lives (as muslims are supposed to), yet reject salvation through Christ (which muslims do), then Satan is victorious in their lives.   But in Christ Satan is defeated."

It is our duty to tell the Christians and others that all religions before Islam were attacked and infected by Satan, the Master Virus. In fact, we can say that Satan has been defeated by Islam with it's open and blaringly loud declaration "There is no other god/God but only One God, the Lord Almighty". Satan will never be pleased with this declaration.  He has given up on Islam.

I must tell you something interesting here, that almost a hundred times or may be more, every day, every Muslim, recites this: "I seek refuge in Allah, the Lord Almighty only, to  keep away this kicked-out/cursed Satan."   Believe me, he dares not sway our Faith and Belief in the One God, the Lord Almighty!

BMZ



 



Posted By: pauline35
Date Posted: 22 January 2007 at 10:20am
Dear BMZ, you said "It is our duty to tell the Christians and others that all religions before Islam were attacked and infected by Satan, the Master Virus.",

Pauline questioned : What I don't understand is that how other religions have infected by Satan when Osama Bin Laden, an Islamist is the one who has been infected by satan to carry out satanic attack? As we all know, Osama is a greatly devoted to Islam. He does fasting on Monday and Thursday as what Prophet Mohammed(pbuh) did. Don't get me wrong, I am not against Islam's dotrine.

You said again : In fact, we can say that Satan has been defeated by Islam with it's open and blaringly loud declaration "There is no other god/God but only One God, the Lord Almighty". Satan will never be pleased with this declaration. He has given up on Islam.",

Pauline questioned : I just don't see how the Satan has been defeated by Islam through its declaration? Christianity also declare that only ONE GOD AND JESUS IS THE SON OF THE LORD.

You have to do better than this because I doubt Josh would understand.




Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 22 January 2007 at 8:52pm

Dear Pauline, Greetings

My post has to be read as a response to yasha's post.

Regarding Satan, he is also into politics and all related matters, pitting people against people, nation against nation and was so successful in deceiving the well-educated and civilised Germans that they slaughtered Jews and other weaklings. Satan excited the current American regime to invade Iraq and destroy a people and their country.

What Osama did was wrong. I have no sympathy for him. His action was his own revenge or retaliation and had nothing to do with Islam. Of course Satan deceived him too.

From you: "Pauline questioned : I just don't see how the Satan has been defeated by Islam through its declaration? Christianity also declare that only ONE GOD AND JESUS IS THE SON OF THE LORD."

Satan has been defeated by Islam, since Islam declares One unadulterated God Almighty. Christians do say one but they split that one God, trying to fit Jesus in. 

You appear to be a Unitarian. Is that so? The reason I asked is because you seem to believe in One God Almighty and keep Jesus away as a Son of God, a separate person.

Best Regards

BMZ

  

 



Posted By: pauline35
Date Posted: 22 January 2007 at 10:27pm
BMZ replied : My post has to be read as a response to yasha's post.

I know that but it is Josh who started this thread. So whatever you write, Josh will read too.

You are right about me and I do not believe Jesus is the son of the god because god is almighty. God doesn't need alliance but ONLY messiah to decipher his message.

BMZ said : What Osama did was wrong. I have no sympathy for him. His action was his own revenge or retaliation and had nothing to do with Islam. Of course Satan deceived him too.

The hadith which is the sayings of Prophet Mohammed :
TO STAND ONE HOUR IN THE BATTLE LINE IN THE CAUSE OF ALLAH IS BETTER THAN SIXTY YEARS OF NIGHT PRAYER.

What do you understand from it?


Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 22 January 2007 at 10:36pm
Pauline 35 -

I am not Muslim and do not want to make a statement about Islam but when I read these hadiths Osama bin Laden came to mind immediately:

004.056.803
Narrated Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman

The people used to ask Allah's Apostle about good, but I used to ask him about evil for fear that it might overtake me. Once I said, "O Allah's Apostle! We were in ignorance and in evil and Allah has bestowed upon us the present good; will there by any evil after this good?" He said, "Yes." I asked, "Will there be good after that evil?" He said, "Yes, but it would be tained with Dakhan (i.e. Little evil)."I asked, "What will its Dakhan be?" He said, "There will be some people who will lead (people) according to principles other than my tradition. You will see their actions and disapprove of them." I said,"Will there by any evil after that good?" He said, "Yes, there will besome people who will invite others to the doors of Hell, and whoever accepts their invitation to it will be thrown in it (by them)." I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Describe those people to us." He said, "Theywill belong to us and speak our language" I asked, "What do you order me to do if such a thing should take place in my life?" He said, "Adhere to the group of Muslims and their Chief." I asked, "If there is neither a group (of Muslims) nor a chief (what shall I do)?" He said, "Keep away from all those different sects, even if you had to bite (i.e. eat) the root of a tree, till you meet Allah while you are still in that state."

)009.084.065
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr bin Yasar

That they visited Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri and asked him about Al-Harauriyya, a special unorthodox religious sect, "Did you hear the Prophet saying anything about them?" Abu Sa'id said, "I do not know what Al-Harauriyya is, but I heard the Prophet saying, "There will appear in this nation---- he did not say: From this nation ---- a group of people so pious apparently that you will consider your prayers inferior to their prayers, but they will recite the Quran, theteachings of which will not go beyond their throats and will go out oftheir religion as an arrow darts through the game, whereupon the archer may look at his arrow, its Nasl at its Risaf and its Fuqa to see whether it is blood-stained or not (i.e. they will have not even atrace of Islam in them)."


-------------
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.


Posted By: pauline35
Date Posted: 22 January 2007 at 10:51pm
David, what do you understand from that line? I like to hear different interpretation. Understanding and stating what you understand is not making any statement about or against it.


Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 23 January 2007 at 4:17am

Originally posted by pauline35 pauline35 wrote:

The hadith which is the sayings of Prophet Mohammed :
TO STAND ONE HOUR IN THE BATTLE LINE IN THE CAUSE OF ALLAH IS BETTER THAN SIXTY YEARS OF NIGHT PRAYER.

What do you understand from it?

First of all, you should have quoted where you got this hadith from, which book is it in, etc. War is ordained in Islam in self defense. Because sooner or later, every country will be put in a position where it has to go to war in order to defend itself. If its religion says nothing about this, what are they to do? Think of Hitler. If he was never fought, imagine what more evil he could have done. So Islam allows to go to war in self defence and going to war in self defence is better than sixty years of night prayer (if the hadith you quoted is accurate) because this person is putting his life on the line without fear, complete trust in God that if he dies defending Gods religion for the sake of God he will enter heaven. But the guy who sits and prays is in no danger, so they cant be compared. So naturally the man putting his life on the line for God is better then the one who is safe. This is what I understand from the hadith. Think of it this way, the early Christians who were greatly prosecuted, can they be compared with a safe Christian today? No.

Keep in mind, while in war, Muslims arent allowed to kill a woman or a child or any citizen and or even plants. Today with our civilised world we have finally after hundreds of conventions made it unlawfull to kill a civilian, Islam has done this 1400 years ago.

 (Narrated in Saheeh Muslim, #1744, and Saheeh Al-Bukhari, #3015.)

 Allah does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes.  Allah loves just dealers.  (Quran, 60:8)

Listen to Abu Bakr (the first Caliphate or Muslim ruler after the prophet) says to Usama on his campaign to Syria:

“Do not betray or be treacherous or vindictive. Do not mutilate. Do not kill the children, the aged or the women. Do not cut or bum palm trees or fruitful trees. Don’t slay a sheep, a cow or camel except for your food. And you will come across people who confined themselves to worship in hermitages, leave them alone to what they devoted themselves for.”

For more on Islams War Ethics:
http://members.tripod.com/maseeh1/advices7/id226.htm - http://members.tripod.com/maseeh1/advices7/id226.htm

 



Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 23 January 2007 at 7:15am

Pauline,

"The hadith which is the sayings of Prophet Mohammed :
TO STAND ONE HOUR IN THE BATTLE LINE IN THE CAUSE OF ALLAH IS BETTER THAN SIXTY YEARS OF NIGHT PRAYER.

What do you understand from it?"

Pauline, I am not much into the subject of Hadith. I refer mostly to Qur'aan for what it says.

The battle has to be in the cause of Allah. What does that mean? The battle of Osama, for example, was not not in the cause of Allah and as such I would not waste my years of prayers but if an enemy of Islam wages a war on Islam, I would stand hours in the battle.

A note here: The battles fought by the Muslims in the infancy of Islam were never initiated or waged by Muslims. They were attacked first and were allowed to retaliate, when the persecution became worse than slaughter.

Coming back to what I thought about you, may I ask you a question and hope you would not mind:

Do you think that trinity falls under an "operating system" designed to accomodate God, son and the holy ghost, by the ancient church fathers of the fellow Christians?

Best Regards

BMZ

  



Posted By: Patty
Date Posted: 23 January 2007 at 4:19pm

Believe me, he dares not sway our Faith and Belief in the One God, the Lord Almighty!

Nor ours either, BMZ.  If I've said it once, I said it 100 times here.  Christians believe in ONE GOD.  NOT THREE GODS!  ONE GOD.  He is made up of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.....but He is still ONE GOD.  You know there are numerous Biblical references to the Holy Trinity, although the word "trinity" is not used....nevertheless, the meaning is there. 

Christians say they believe in one God because they do.  If they believed in 3 Gods, they would say so and try to explain why....but that is not the case.  Whoa, I feel a meltdown coming on....guess that's it for now!  One God, BMZ.....one God.  (Still have my aspirins handy.)

 



-------------
Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.


Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 23 January 2007 at 11:51pm

Originally posted by Patty Patty wrote:

BMZ.  If I've said it once, I said it 100 times here.  Christians believe in ONE GOD.  NOT THREE GODS!  ONE GOD.  He is made up of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.....but He is still ONE GOD.


OK MBZ let me help you to understand Patty's picture of 3 in 1 god;
now you owe me one


http://imageshack.us">

 


-------------
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: pauline35
Date Posted: 24 January 2007 at 4:11am
To Sign*Reader: That is 3 faces god. The Thai Buddhist believe in four faces god.

To Arab:Islam allows to go to war in self defence and going to war in self defence is better than sixty years of night prayer...

Thanks for your contribution. I took it from a book by Peter Bergen, a freelance journalist who authored THE OSAME BIN LADEN I KNOW.

If the above hadith was read "TO STAND ONE HOUR IN THE BATTLE LINE in self-defence IN THE CAUSE OF ALLAH IS BETTER THAN SIXTY YEARS OF NIGHT PRAYER", Osama would have not used it to go to war. I understand he formed a cult that teaches unIslamic protocol. Unfortunately, the world is deceived by this interpretation. If we have any Iman here, please do something to correct it. Never too late to correct Osama that what he did is unislamic.

My interpretation is quite different as I see it read as : TO STAND ONE HOUR IN doing charity (THE BATTLE LINE) FOR THE CAUSE OF ALLAH receives better blessing(IS BETTER) THAN SIXTY YEARS OF NIGHT PRAYER.

Only 2% of the world's population understood what Osama did was not islamic. Every now and then, those Muslims who were not aware of the misinterpreted hadith have gone to church asking to be baptised for they do not want to be Muslim anymore. The church asked them to go back to Iman seeking approval.

My country is facing this problem now. I know two Muslims had embraced Christinity, one still carries his muslim name but the other one has become LENA JOY who married a pastor.


Posted By: pauline35
Date Posted: 24 January 2007 at 4:32am
Brother BMZ asked : Do you think that trinity falls under an "operating system" designed to accomodate God, son and the holy ghost, by the ancient church fathers of the fellow Christians?

I think it is about a family not an operating system. It is probably designed to inspire the followers to cherish a decent family. Holy ghost sounds very angelic. It serves as a reminder for the followers to remember god so to be protected by god's servant, perhaps the holy ghost.

When the church chant, father and son and holy ghost, I freaked out. I would prefer to hear Holy Spirit than Holy GHOST. Spooky! Anyway, I am no longer a Catholic neither a Muslim.



Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 24 January 2007 at 5:38am

pauline35

Only 2% of the world's population understood what Osama did was not islamic

Every now and then, those Muslims who were not aware of the misinterpreted hadith have gone to church asking to be baptised for they do not want to be Muslim anymore.

Where did you you get this from??



-------------
Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 24 January 2007 at 11:21am

The Title Reads: "Why believe in Islam?"

I've been reading several books on the author Ibn Waraaq who, wrote the famous book "Why I am not Muslim" which was also followed by several books he edited. One called "The historical Muhammad" and the other which escapes my memory at this second is abouyt the Qur'an. It is quite interesting to hear (or in my case read) about how Islam is "this and that." In his new book "Leaving Islam" was quite funny......

So whats the point?

The reason why I chose Islam originally because, spiritually I felt close to its principles crystallized in the Qur'an. Logically it made sense to me and even atheist would argue that even if they denied its theology any young religion would be closer to modern thought. Because Islam contains a lot of modern thought it find itself agreeable to modernist like myself.



Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 25 January 2007 at 6:54pm

Israfil,

"The reason why I chose Islam originally because, spiritually I felt close to its principles crystallized in the Qur'an. Logically it made sense to me and even atheist would argue that even if they denied its theology any young religion would be closer to modern thought. Because Islam contains a lot of modern thought it find itself agreeable to modernist like myself."

Well-said.

Best Regards

BMZ 



Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 25 January 2007 at 6:57pm

Originally posted by pauline35 pauline35 wrote:

Brother BMZ asked : Do you think that trinity falls under an "operating system" designed to accomodate God, son and the holy ghost, by the ancient church fathers of the fellow Christians?

I think it is about a family not an operating system. It is probably designed to inspire the followers to cherish a decent family. Holy ghost sounds very angelic. It serves as a reminder for the followers to remember god so to be protected by god's servant, perhaps the holy ghost.

When the church chant, father and son and holy ghost, I freaked out. I would prefer to hear Holy Spirit than Holy GHOST. Spooky! Anyway, I am no longer a Catholic neither a Muslim.

That is why they changed the translation from Holy Ghost to the Holy Spirit, which does not scare or frighten anyone.

Patty ain't gonna like what you said in the last sentence.



Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 27 January 2007 at 7:55am
Originally posted by bmzsp bmzsp wrote:

Originally posted by pauline35 pauline35 wrote:

Brother BMZ asked : Do you think that trinity falls under an "operating system" designed to accomodate God, son and the holy ghost, by the ancient church fathers of the fellow Christians?

I think it is about a family not an operating system. It is probably designed to inspire the followers to cherish a decent family. Holy ghost sounds very angelic. It serves as a reminder for the followers to remember god so to be protected by god's servant, perhaps the holy ghost.

When the church chant, father and son and holy ghost, I freaked out. I would prefer to hear Holy Spirit than Holy GHOST. Spooky! Anyway, I am no longer a Catholic neither a Muslim.

That is why they changed the translation from Holy Ghost to the Holy Spirit, which does not scare or frighten anyone.

Patty ain't gonna like what you said in the last sentence.

From my end Catholics and the church say Holy Spirit  I have always known it to be that way I say it that way, its more natural to me that way and when i heard from others say ghost its like huh? but i guess some people say it that way



-------------
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: Patty
Date Posted: 31 January 2007 at 8:52pm

From BMZ:

"Patty ain't gonna like what you said in the last sentence."  

Well, no I'm not happy with it (you little rascal, you).  But I feel badly when I hear or read of anyone who has lost their faith for whatever reason.  Many times we as humans tend to take a "swerve" until we find our way again.  I did for a long time.  Many of my friends did too.  But eventually we got a tap on the shoulder from God saying "come home, I love you and welcome you back."  If we listen, I think He says this to all of us at certain times in our lives. 

You're really a fun person, BMZ.  I love discussing with you because you have one of the kindest, sweetest personalities I've ever encountered.  God/Allah truly blessed you with a wonderful manner of conversing with people!

Then BMZ said:

"That is why they changed the translation from Holy Ghost to the Holy Spirit, which does not scare or frighten anyone."

My friend, everyone knows "ghost" and "spirit" are the same.  There's nothing spooky about either.  Not unless you just enjoy trying to scare the bejeebers out of somebody.

Have a good night, BMZ!

 



-------------
Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.


Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 01 February 2007 at 7:16am
Originally posted by Patty Patty wrote:

My friend, everyone knows "ghost" and "spirit" are the same.  There's nothing spooky about either.  Not unless you just enjoy trying to scare the bejeebers out of somebody.

what like those night tours at haunted places  



-------------
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: pauline35
Date Posted: 02 February 2007 at 6:05am
From Amah: Where did you you get this from??

I got the news from my country and the pastor who is my colleague confided to me that he receives special guest (almost every week) who requested to be baptised in his church. These 2% Muslims have started to embrace other religion since 9/11. One of my colleague(Zakri) that I know have embraced Christian because of believing that Islam teaches terrorism as what Osama did. What he didn't understand is that Osama is cultist. Zakri is attending the Christian church every sunday morning but still carries his muslim name. Another saddest thing is that the most latest trend is about using Islam as the foundation to swindle money from those gullible student who wants to learn about Islam. My point is Muslims around the world, need to be alert about cultist who misinterprets the teaching of true Islam.


Posted By: pauline35
Date Posted: 02 February 2007 at 6:20am
BMZSP : Patty ain't gonna like what you said in the last sentence.

Ooops! I didn't mean it.


Posted By: pauline35
Date Posted: 02 February 2007 at 7:29am
Angel : what like those night tours at haunted places!

Pauline would like share one moment of truth from one of my close gal friends. She started to see things like spirits when she was eight. I guess she inherited from her mum.

One day whilst on her way home in a van, the driver was talking about ghost story whilst passing the cemetery. There were three people in the van, the driver, my friend and another acquaintance. The driver got excited telling too many ghost story to my friend. My friend then said, "You better stop talking about ghost cos there is one now sitting behind me."

The driver pulled emergency break and got out of the van and ran as fast as he could.

My friend was amazed he could run that fast. She went out to get him back and luckily he came back because that area was the cemetery land. The only safe way out is to drive out of that area.

Spooky huh!


Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 03 February 2007 at 5:27am


-------------
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: rookaiya
Date Posted: 07 February 2007 at 1:06am

if islam is really a religion created by satan to lead people away from worshipping christ, then its ironic that his followers "seek refuge in Allah from Satan, the rejected one."

when muslims perfom salaah, before we read the surahs, we say "aaoozubillahi minashaitanirajeem" :( i seek refuge in Allah from satan the rejected one.) then we say "bismillahir rahmannir rahim" ( in the name if Allah most beneficient, most merciful).

to me, this is proof enough that Islam cannot be a religion created by satan. every day muslims seek protection in Allah from Satan. how does this help satans course and how does this amount to worshipping satan? unless satan feels worshipped by the fact that he is cursed daily by muslims all over the world. maybe thats how they worship him in reverse. by cursing him, they actually worshipping him.

whoever came up with that idea of Islam being satans religion is truly misguided. wanaoozubillah.



Posted By: Cyril
Date Posted: 14 February 2007 at 5:23am
Originally posted by rookaiya rookaiya wrote:

whoever came up with that idea of Islam being satans religion is truly misguided. wanaoozubillah.



No religion is innocent. Doesn't the Quran imply that polytheists who have their own religion are led by the Devil?



Posted By: rookaiya
Date Posted: 14 February 2007 at 5:49am
where in the Quran is that stated?


Posted By: Cyril
Date Posted: 14 February 2007 at 6:18am
Originally posted by rookaiya rookaiya wrote:

where in the Quran is that stated?


I said "imply".


Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 14 February 2007 at 6:38am
Hi BMZ, , first, thankyou for welcoming me in the other thread.   I appreciate the opportunity for friendly dialogue.

Satan, in the wilderness temptation of Jesus, challenged Jesus as to being the Son of God.  Satan tempted Jesus 3 times.    Twice directly challenging Jesus as to being the Son of God... "if thou be the Son of God" in Matt 4:3, again in Matt 4:6.   The third temptation of Satan offering Jesus the kingdoms of this world was also a challenge to Jesus's being the Son of God,  simply because the kingdoms already belonged to Jesus to begin with being the Son of God.

Does not Islam not echo the doubt pursued by Satan to put in people's mind denying that Jesus is the Son of God... except that Islam is even more direct and affirmative in this area, as core to the belief of Islam is that God has no Son?     

For that reason, it seems to me that the inspiration of the Islam religion originates with Satan.

Peace,

Doug L.     


Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 14 February 2007 at 8:55am

Originally posted by Douggg Douggg wrote:

Hi BMZ, , first, thankyou for welcoming me in the other thread.   I appreciate the opportunity for friendly dialogue.

Satan, in the wilderness temptation of Jesus, challenged Jesus as to being the Son of God.  Satan tempted Jesus 3 times.    Twice directly challenging Jesus as to being the Son of God... "if thou be the Son of God" in Matt 4:3, again in Matt 4:6.   The third temptation of Satan offering Jesus the kingdoms of this world was also a challenge to Jesus's being the Son of God,  simply because the kingdoms already belonged to Jesus to begin with being the Son of God.

Does not Islam not echo the doubt pursued by Satan to put in people's mind denying that Jesus is the Son of God... except that Islam is even more direct and affirmative in this area, as core to the belief of Islam is that God has no Son?     

For that reason, it seems to me that the inspiration of the Islam religion originates with Satan.

Peace,

Doug L.     

No, Douggg

There is a serious problem here.

Satan did not go on his own to tempt or test or try Jesus. Jesus, on the other hand, was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan.

I suspect this statement was inspired by Satan. Don't you think so? The second problem is after declaring,"This is my son with whom I am pleased". Why would the Father plan to have him tested or tempted by the devil? Did the Father have doubts?

In case of Adam & Eve, Satan went himself to deceive or trick them.No spirit led Adam and Eve to be tested by Satan.

 



Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 14 February 2007 at 9:22pm
Originally posted by bmzsp bmzsp wrote:

[QUOTE=Douggg] Hi BMZ, , first, thankyou for welcoming me in the other thread.   I appreciate the opportunity for friendly dialogue.

Satan, in the wilderness temptation of Jesus, challenged Jesus as to being the Son of God.  Satan tempted Jesus 3 times.    Twice directly challenging Jesus as to being the Son of God... "if thou be the Son of God" in Matt 4:3, again in Matt 4:6.   The third temptation of Satan offering Jesus the kingdoms of this world was also a challenge to Jesus's being the Son of God,  simply because the kingdoms already belonged to Jesus to begin with being the Son of God.

Does not Islam not echo the doubt pursued by Satan to put in people's mind denying that Jesus is the Son of God... except that Islam is even more direct and affirmative in this area, as core to the belief of Islam is that God has no Son?     

For that reason, it seems to me that the inspiration of the Islam religion originates with Satan.

Peace,

Doug L.     

Hi BMZ,

Satan did not go on his own to tempt or test or try Jesus.

The bible only says that Satan came to tempt Jesus after Jesus had been there 40 days fasting such that Jesus was physically weak and hungry when Satan decided to tempt him.  

Jesus, on the other hand, was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan.

"on the other hand" of what?   That Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan - I agree with you, as that is what is written the bible, Mark 4:1.

I suspect this statement was inspired by Satan. Don't you think so?

No, I don't.  Why would you think that?

The second problem is after declaring,"This is my son with whom I am pleased". Why would the Father have doubts?  The Father had just publically declared that Jesus was his beloved son.

You are asking me a question of why would the Father plan to have Jesus tested or tempted by the devil, that perhaps you should ask God.   But in my humble opinion it was to show that Jesus had authority over sin and Satan.

In case of Adam & Eve, Satan went himself to deceive or trick them.No spirit led Adam and Eve to be tested by Satan.

I don't see the relavency.   Nonetheless, Adam and Eve were not anointed by the  Holy Spirit, I agree with that... and they fell to temptation - didn't they?

BMZ, none of the above erases that Satan's intent was to deny that Jesus was the Son of God.  Denying that Jesus is the Son of God is a
fundamental belief of Islam.    The inspiration of the religion of Islam should be obvious.

Also, the one thing by which man can be made perfectly righteous  and justified before God, and to deal with the problem of our inherited nature to sin, due to the original sin of Adam and Eve, Islam also denys - that is the crucifixion death and resurrection.

Does Islam believe that Satan's goal is to destroy humanity?   If so, we are in agreement on that point.

But the very thing that saves humanity, the good news, Islam is against - just like Satan.   That is, the fundamental beliefs that Jesus is the Son of God and that Jesus was crucified, buried, and resurrected - that which Satan wants men to stay away from is what Islam fervently teaches men to stay away from.  

That Islam calls Satan a few names - he probably is having a good chuckle - as muslims deny Jesus is the Son of God, reject the cross,  and go on to eternal destruction... mission accomplished.   And Satan probably thanks the militant jihadists for killing more humans as well.


Peace,

Doug L.



Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 15 February 2007 at 1:05am

Dougg, out of how many Gospels were our gospels today chosen? Tens? Hundreds? And please dont talk about the militant jihadists because u forget something which is, who attacked Iraq when Iraq never attacked it? Your government. Who invaded Afghanistan when Mulla Omar asked your government to just show him one proof that links bin laden to 9-11 and he'll personally hand him over? Your government. Whos on a, I quote, "crusade" right now? Your government. So plz give me a break.

Jesus according to the bible was tempted by satan yet according to your belief, those who voted on the trinity werent tempted by Satan? The fact is nothing can make u sure. What happened to those who didnt believe Jesus was God? They were persecuted.

Read the Quran ull come to realize that there is nothing in the Quran which contradicts the message of the prophets. There is something in the Quran which contradicts the doctrines which came into existance AFTER the prophets thanks to normal human beings of whom u follow till this very day. If a trinity existed which it doesnt, it would have been preached by all the prophets since the very begening and we wouldnt have been having this discussion. Noah peace be upon him would have said "your God is a truine God but one" Moses would have said your God is one and in a trinity but one. Even Jesus would have said o children of Israel the lord your God is one, in a trinity. The prophets woud have preached that your salvation comes in you believing that later on God is going to sacrafice his own son for your sins on a cross. No one ever preached that. All of a sudden we are to believe this while all of this came into existance after all the prophets and after Jesus Christ himself!? Impossible.



Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 15 February 2007 at 1:34am
Hi Arab, ,

Dougg, out of how many Gospels were our gospels today chosen? Tens? Hundreds? And please dont talk about the militant jihadists because u forget something which is, who attacked Iraq when Iraq never attacked it? Your government. Who invaded Afghanistan when Mulla Omar asked your government to just show him one proof that links bin laden to 9-11 and he'll personally hand him over? Your government. Whos on a, I quote, "crusade" right now? Your government. So plz give me a break.

Satan works every angle he can to destroy the souls of mankind.

Jesus according to the bible was tempted by satan yet according to your belief, those who voted on the trinity werent tempted by Satan? The fact is nothing can make u sure. What happened to those who didnt believe Jesus was God? They were persecuted.

Your comment regarding the trinity, voting, tempted by Satan ??? doesn't make sense to me.  I don't under the point your are making.   So I can't respond to that.   Persons persecuted for not accepting Jesus is certainly unjustified and not something God ordained and God is against such things.

Read the Quran ull come to realize that there is nothing in the Quran which contradicts the message of the prophets. There is something in the Quran which contradicts the doctrines which came into existance AFTER the prophets thanks to normal human beings of whom u follow till this very day. If a trinity existed which it doesnt, it would have been preached by all the prophets since the very begening and we wouldnt have been having this discussion. Noah peace be upon him would have said "your God is a truine God but one" Moses would have said your God is one and in a trinity but one. Even Jesus would have said o children of Israel the lord your God is one, in a trinity. The prophets woud have preached that your salvation comes in you believing that later on God is going to sacrafice his own son for your sins on a cross. No one ever preached that. All of a sudden we are to believe this while all of this came into existance after all the prophets and after Jesus Christ himself!? Impossible.

The Lord from heaven came into this world to save it.   Do you believe this?    The plan of salvation was not revealed to man's understanding until after the resurrection - because that was God's decision.  That's why even according to the nt, Christianity would agree with you, in part.   Do the prophets over-ride God? 

Peace,

Doug L.





Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 15 February 2007 at 7:21am

Douggg: "The Lord from heaven came into this world to save it. Do you believe this?"

No, I do not believe this but would like to know which Lord came down from the heaven. I have not seen any improvement in this world after the arrival and departure of the "Lord".

Douggg: "The plan of salvation was not revealed to man's understanding until after the resurrection - because that was God's decision.  That's why even according to the nt, Christianity would agree with you, in part.   Do the prophets over-ride God?"

What plan of salvation was revealed by Jesus in his own words?


 



Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 15 February 2007 at 8:47am
Hi BMZ,

Douggg: "The Lord from heaven came into this world to save it. Do you believe this?"

No, I do not believe this but would like to know which Lord came down from the heaven. I have not seen any improvement in this world after the arrival and departure of the "Lord".

The Lord who created the earth and everything in it. 
1:10  He http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2258 - was http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1722 - in the http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2889 - world, http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2532 - and the http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2889 - world was http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1096 - made http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1223 - by http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=846 - him, http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2532 - and the http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2889 - world http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1097 - knew http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=846 - him http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3756 - not.
1:11  He http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2064 - came http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1519 - unto his http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2398 - own, http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2532 - and his http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2398 - own http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3880 - received http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=846 - him http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3756 - not.
The world has not improved - true.   It gets more and more evil every day.   Isn't that what the bible says will happen - that the world will be like in the days of Noah - violence running rampant?

Jesus will return to this earth prior to May 15, 2018.   I get that by believing what Jesus said about the generation that sees the budding of the fig tree parable, which occured in May 15, 1948, which also marks the generation of Gog/Magog, and adding 70 years - the maximum length of a generation.   1948+70= 2018.   No later than May 15, 2018, all of the prophecies will be fulfilled regarding the end-times and the return of Jesus.

And by subtracting the 7 years for the last week of Daniel 9's 70 weeks, 2018 - 7years = 2011.    The confirmation of the covenant with many of Daniel 9:26-27 will occure no later than May 15, 2011.

And what I believe is that Gog/Maog will just precede that last week, the seven years, which will begin when the Antichrist arrives in Israel to be unwittingly accepted by the Jews as their messiah.  With the nuclear issue regarding Iran, listed as Persia, in Ezekiel 38 - it appears that Gog/Magog could occure easily before May, 2011.

Here is a easy to read chart of those events that I recently made.   I have 35 years full time study in bible prophecy.  I am 58 years old, btw, born in 1948, the same year that Israel became a nation again.  


Peace,

Doug L.







 




Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 15 February 2007 at 9:41pm

Hi Doug,

Will Jesus be arriving before Gog and Magog start killing each other or will he be arriving after all are dead?

That is another problem that I can foresee. Muslims believe too that he would return. But I see no point in his return. He had completed the mission given to him by God Almighty before he was put on the cross. That is what the Good Book says.

BMZ



Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 15 February 2007 at 9:48pm

Hi Doug,

The Flow Chart, of the Coming Big Troubles, has a note "Jews are Christians". I don't think the Jews are going to accept that. If Jesus lands in Israel, he will be the Messiah that the Jews had been waiting for milleniums.

I think Christians will have to become Jews in all sincerity becuase Jesus will be looking after the sheep of Israel. 

BMZ



Posted By: rookaiya
Date Posted: 16 February 2007 at 12:02am
this is something that we have no control over. Only God almighty knows when and how this will happen.


Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 16 February 2007 at 5:12am
Hi BMZ, ,

Will Jesus be arriving before Gog and Magog start killing each other or will he be arriving after all are dead?

No, Jesus will be returning to this earth 7 years later.   Ezekiel 38 and 39 go together.   In Ezekiel 39:9, after the big destruction of the invading armies, the Jews will be burning the remains of the implements of war for fuel for 7 years.    That 7 years corresponds to the 7 years that the chart covers from the orange "Gog/Magog" on the left all the way to the extreme right border.   At the upper border you will see "Day 1", "Day 220",  "Day 1185", "Day 1260", "Day 2520" - the entire 7 years is 7x360days = 2520 days long.   Jesus returns on day 2520.  It is noted in the upper right hand corner. 

The beginning of the 7 years is marked by the confirming of the covenant by the incognito Antichrist.   In other words, most people will not understand who he is.   That the 7 years is kicked off by the confirming of the covenant is nearly 100% universal among Christian bible prophecy scholars.  

Again, Jesus returns to the earth at the end of the 7 years.

That is another problem that I can foresee. Muslims believe too that he would return. But I see no point in his return. He had completed the mission given to him by God Almighty before he was put on the cross. That is what the Good Book says.

I understand what you are saying, BMZ.   I have discussed the Muslim end times view with several muslims on line.   To be honest with you, what I was looking for was to see if there was any possibilty of the muslim prophecies being such that the Antichrist could pose as the Mahdi or Jesus, thus, fooling the Muslims.    My suspicions were at causal glance it is possible, but thanks to the information I receive from the Muslim gentlemen, I concluded that there were too many conflicting prophecies that it couldn't happen.   So what I conclude is that the Muslim prophecies just won't play out, as basically the religion of Islam will be invalidated when Gog/Magog happens.   That's why I am pointing you to the countries listed in Ezekiel 38 for consideration, as they are all being Muslim except Russia - who herself is a big time Muslim nation ally, arms, and nuclear supplier.   Time will prove me either right or wrong.

Nonetheless, let me say there are many Christian bible prophecy scholars who do think the Antichrist will pose as the Muslim Mahdi or Jesus.  Personally, I think they need to speak to some Muslims themselfs in some extended discussions regarding the muslim end-times view.

The Flow Chart, of the Coming Big Troubles, has a note "Jews are Christians". I don't think the Jews are going to accept that. If Jesus lands in Israel, he will be the Messiah that the Jews had been waiting for milleniums.

You're telling me they wouldn't it accept it!  They would get very upset looking at my chart.    They are looking for a messiah who fits what Judaism believes about the moshiach (messiah).   They get a good portion of their expectation from the Rambam, a 1200 CE Jewish theologian, not to be confused with the Ramban, another Jewish theologian.  A person can get a good understanding of the moshiach the Jews are expecting at http://www.jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm - http://www.jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm http:// -

Many of the Jews living in Israel right now don't even have a solid faith in God, as Judaism believes Him, much less believe that Jesus is the Lord and messiah, as Christians do.    However, the Gog/Magog event will bring the secular Jews to call upon the God of their bible in their time of desparation when the enormous invasion alliance of Russia and the many muslim nation mobilize to invade.   Ezekiel 38 says that God will by supernatural means destroy those armies in the mountains and plains of Israel and the far away cities of the invaders will also receive devastation.   It isn't clear as to how the far away cities are devastated - whether by supernatural means or missle retaliation,  I don't know.

But what I do know is that in that battle. God as it is writtne in Ezekiel 38 is on the side of the Jews and Israel.   That much is overwhelmingly clear.  Those passage in Ezekiel 38 and 39 were written 500 years before Jesus's time.   So neither Isam nor Christianity was in existance at that time.

Given the fact that we have the greek Septuagint LXX to verify the Maorectic text (the Jewish Bible) and the KJV,  those equivalent modern muslim countries prophesied as making up the invading force was not something the Jews did to conspire againt Islam.

Although the nonreligious Jews will get religion durning that time of streses, they will definitely not be Christians.   There is some times of troubles for the Jews that they must go through, even after Gog/Magog, before they come to the point when they finally accept Jesus as the Christian bible says they will do one day.

With the destruction of all of her enemies in region, overjoyed, the Jews will (erroneously) think that they will have entered the messianic age.   This will be bolstered by the arrival of the false messiah, the Antichrist, at that time.   The rest of the world will be pretty elated too - no more terrorism.   And what few pockets of muslim resistance
are left will be swiftly dealt with by the false messiah, to the cheers of the world.  

The Antichrist will confirm the covenant prophesied in Daniel 9:27, which I am fairly certain will be the Mt. Sinai covenant that established the animal sacrifices to begin with.  Oh, he won't be sincere, it will be a total act of deception.   And with there being no more muslim authority, after Gog/Magog, to deal withl concerning the temple mount, the Jews will rebuild their temple (look back at the chart).   In the middle portion of the seven years, the Antichrist will show himself for his true colors and go into the temple and declare himself to be god.   And he will stop the sacrifices, demanding worship of himself.

At that point the Jews will realize that their big mistake.   That they had made a covenant with death and hell by embracing the false messiah.   It is then that God removes the scales from their eyes and they turn to Jesus, as Lord and Saviour.

BMZ. there are tons of bible verses that support all of what I have said, but we are just having a friendly dialogue here, not a Christian bible class.   This is after all a muslim site.  I respect that.  So that's why I narrated rather than overwhelm you with all of the specific verses and rationale involved.   That would take away from the flow of the discussion, I would think.

I think Christians will have to become Jews in all sincerity becuase Jesus will be looking after the sheep of Israel.

Yes, I understand what you are saying, coming from your muslim perspective.  I appreciate the discussion. 

btw, once the Antichrist declares that he is god, the entire world, including those in the U.S. will belief him.   The Jews, however, will not and neither will those who become Christian during that time.   You have heard of 666, haven't you?

Peace,

Doug L.


Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 16 February 2007 at 6:32am
If jesus is God how can God be tempted by the devil??

-------------
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 16 February 2007 at 6:54am
Originally posted by Hayfa Hayfa wrote:

If jesus is God how can God be tempted by the devil??


Hi Hayfa,,

God will not yield to temptation to act apart from his divine natural.   It doesn't mean that Satan can "attempt" to tempt God.

KJV, Matthew
4:6   http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2532 - And http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3004 - saith unto http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=846 - him, http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1487 - If thou http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1488 - be the http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=5207 - Son of http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2316 - God, http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=906 - cast http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=4572 - thyself http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2736 - down: http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1063 - for it is http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1125 - written http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3754 - * , He shall http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1781 - give http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=846 - his http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=32 - angels http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1781 - charge http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=4012 - concerning http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=4675 - thee: http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2532 - And http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1909 - in their http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=5495 - hands they shall http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=142 - bear http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=4571 - thee http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=142 - up , lest at any http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3379 - time thou http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=4350 - dash http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=4675 - thy http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=4228 - foot http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=4314 - against a http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3037 - stone.
4:7   http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2424 - Jesus http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=5346 - said unto http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=846 - him, It is http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1125 - written http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3825 - again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
4:8   http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3825 - again, the http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1228 - devil http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3880 - taketh http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=846 - him http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3880 - up http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1519 - into an http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3029 - exceeding http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=5308 - high http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3735 - mountain, http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2532 - And http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1166 - sheweth http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=846 - him http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3956 - all the http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=932 - kingdoms of the http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2889 - world, http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2532 - And the http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1391 - glory of http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=846 - them;
4:9   http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2532 - And http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3004 - saith unto http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=846 - him, http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3956 - all these http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=5023 - things will I http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1325 - give http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=4671 - thee, http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1437 - if thou wilt fall http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=4098 - down and http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=4352 - worship http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3427 - me.
4:10   http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=5119 - Then http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3004 - saith http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2424 - Jesus unto http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=846 - him, Get thee http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=5217 - hence , http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=4567 - Satan: http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1063 - for it is http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=1125 - written , Thou shalt http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=4352 - worship the http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2962 - Lord http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=4675 - thy http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2316 - God, http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2532 - And http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=846 - him http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3441 - only shalt thou http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=3000 - serve .
Peace,

Doug L.




Posted By: pauline35
Date Posted: 17 February 2007 at 7:06pm
Mr. Douggg predicted :
Jesus will return to this earth prior to May 15, 2018. I get that by believing what Jesus said about the generation that sees the budding of the fig tree parable, which occured in May 15, 1948, which also marks the generation of Gog/Magog, and adding 70 years-the maximum length of a generation. 1948+70= 2018. No later than May 15, 2018, all of the prophecies will be fulfilled regarding the end-times and the return of Jesus.

Mr. Douggg, with all due respect, Forgive me that I’ll have to be straight forward on this one. Now there are facts that we cannot deny that Jews are the genius which means 9 out of 10 would outsmart others. The second fact is that US is power crazy and yet is control by the Jews. Their mission is to conquer the world’s economic growth. By doing so, they allowed 9/11 to have taken place so that they have the best reason to control the oil country on the pretext of war on terrorism.

It was Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan who mastered 9/11 and how is that ended up in war with Iraq? It certainly does not make any sense as it is like SHE who’d murdered but HE was convicted and sentenced to death.

Your prediction about the second coming of Jesus could not be accurate for the bible itself is corrupted since the death of Jesus. To begin with, let’s go back to the bible, the MalachI 2, 3:10. It says BRING ALL THE TITHES INTO THE STOREHOUSE, THAT THERE MAY BE FOOD IN “MY” HOUSE AND TRY “ME” NOW IN THIS,” says the Lord of hosts, “If I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you such blessing that there will not be room enough to receive it”.

In Chinese translated Bible, it is not BRING ALL THE TITHES INTO THE STOREHOUSE, it is said ONE TENTH, in Chinese it is SHI FEN ZHI YI meaning 10 percent to be candid. Also in Chinese translated Bible, it is MALACHI chapter 3 verses 8 where the English assumed to be authentic is chapter 3 verses 10????

How could it be an authentic bible when human has the access to add on and translate based on individual’s assumption and interpretation? Even the verses in Chinese and English Bible were not in line with each other.

What is this mean? It means the Bible is totally corrupted. Another preaching from the Chinese Christian is that the 10 percent is GOD’s money so the Christian must “give” (not donate) the 10 percent to the Church (Storehouse) to pay pastor wages for his time spent in sharing gospel (technically convincing others’ to accept Christ the savior), to pay churches’ electricity and water bills etc also accumulating the GOD’s money for rainy days and natural disaster’s needs (good deeds).

My understanding of GOD’s money is that if GOD gave me money to spend then I called it GOD’s money. Similarly as when my father gave me some money, I said it to my friend that it was my father’s money and the remaining unspent money, I’ll have to give back to my father. THAT IS CALLED MY FATHER’S MONEY.

Now when it comes to “ME” sweating blood to earn “MY” money, also so-called MY hard-earned money, how could it be called GOD’S money? I thought the meaning of GOD’s money is that GOD works hard and sweat blood to earn money for me. But here the situation is the other way round, I work hard and sweat blood to earn some money and the Bible says, my hard earned money belongs to GOD??? The rhetoric I received from this Chinese Christian is that BUT IT IS WRITTEN IN BIBLE THAT IT IS GOD’s MONEY!!! How pathetic?

Is there any senses? If not, then it is called human judgment or human self-interpretation. If it is human self-interpretation, then bible is evidently authored by human not GOD. If Bible is authored by human, then it is called corrupted for it is certainly incoherent.

To conclude, since the Bible is evidently corrupted, your prediction is in its inaccuracy state.

The Jews are smart, so is the US. In reality, US is in no way to be convinced to worship a human who would declare himself as GOD. This is absolutely just a fairy tale story if one would’ve imagined it will take place. Fairy tale story defines an individual’s dream. Just my opinion.   





Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 18 February 2007 at 3:48am
Originally posted by pauline35 pauline35 wrote:

Mr. Douggg predicted :
Jesus will return to this earth prior to May 15, 2018. I get that by believing what Jesus said about the generation that sees the budding of the fig tree parable, which occured in May 15, 1948, which also marks the generation of Gog/Magog, and adding 70 years-the maximum length of a generation. 1948+70= 2018. No later than May 15, 2018, all of the prophecies will be fulfilled regarding the end-times and the return of Jesus.

Mr. Douggg, with all due respect, Forgive me that I’ll have to be straight forward on this one. Now there are facts that we cannot deny that Jews are the genius which means 9 out of 10 would outsmart others. The second fact is that US is power crazy and yet is control by the Jews. Their mission is to conquer the world’s economic growth. By doing so, they allowed 9/11 to have taken place so that they have the best reason to control the oil country on the pretext of war on terrorism.

It was Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan who mastered 9/11 and how is that ended up in war with Iraq? It certainly does not make any sense as it is like SHE who’d murdered but HE was convicted and sentenced to death.

Your prediction about the second coming of Jesus could not be accurate for the bible itself is corrupted since the death of Jesus. To begin with, let’s go back to the bible, the MalachI 2, 3:10. It says BRING ALL THE TITHES INTO THE STOREHOUSE, THAT THERE MAY BE FOOD IN “MY” HOUSE AND TRY “ME” NOW IN THIS,” says the Lord of hosts, “If I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you such blessing that there will not be room enough to receive it”.

In Chinese translated Bible, it is not BRING ALL THE TITHES INTO THE STOREHOUSE, it is said ONE TENTH, in Chinese it is SHI FEN ZHI YI meaning 10 percent to be candid. Also in Chinese translated Bible, it is MALACHI chapter 3 verses 8 where the English assumed to be authentic is chapter 3 verses 10????

How could it be an authentic bible when human has the access to add on and translate based on individual’s assumption and interpretation? Even the verses in Chinese and English Bible were not in line with each other.

What is this mean? It means the Bible is totally corrupted. Another preaching from the Chinese Christian is that the 10 percent is GOD’s money so the Christian must “give” (not donate) the 10 percent to the Church (Storehouse) to pay pastor wages for his time spent in sharing gospel (technically convincing others’ to accept Christ the savior), to pay churches’ electricity and water bills etc also accumulating the GOD’s money for rainy days and natural disaster’s needs (good deeds).

My understanding of GOD’s money is that if GOD gave me money to spend then I called it GOD’s money. Similarly as when my father gave me some money, I said it to my friend that it was my father’s money and the remaining unspent money, I’ll have to give back to my father. THAT IS CALLED MY FATHER’S MONEY.

Now when it comes to “ME” sweating blood to earn “MY” money, also so-called MY hard-earned money, how could it be called GOD’S money? I thought the meaning of GOD’s money is that GOD works hard and sweat blood to earn money for me. But here the situation is the other way round, I work hard and sweat blood to earn some money and the Bible says, my hard earned money belongs to GOD??? The rhetoric I received from this Chinese Christian is that BUT IT IS WRITTEN IN BIBLE THAT IT IS GOD’s MONEY!!! How pathetic?

Is there any senses? If not, then it is called human judgment or human self-interpretation. If it is human self-interpretation, then bible is evidently authored by human not GOD. If Bible is authored by human, then it is called corrupted for it is certainly incoherent.

To conclude, since the Bible is evidently corrupted, your predicted is in its inaccuracy state.

The Jews are smart, so is the US. In reality, US is in no way to be convinced to worship a human who would declare himself as GOD. This is absolutely just a fairy tale story if one would’ve imagined it will take place. Fairy tale story defines an individual’s dream. Just my opinion.   


Do you think that the Jews of Judaism corrupted the Christian New Testament?     Because the basis for my 2018 date theory is based up on the parable of the fig tree found in Matthew 24 of the New Testament for establishing the base date of May 15, 1948.

The fig tree is representative in other places in the old testament, as well as in the new testament, as being Israel.   For the past 2000 years the state of Israel has been in dormancy - like a tree in winter.   Jesus said when we see the fig tree start to bloom, then we know that his return is near.   In that same Matthew 24, Jesus said the generation that is alive at time will not pass away until all of the prophecies are complete.

Mohammed, the founder of Islam, may say that the New Testament and the Old Testament have been corrupted by the Jews and Christians... but Ezekiel 38 seems to validate both the Jews and the Christians - while invalidating Islam - as God will destroy those mulsim countries who come against Israel.   They are all muslim, with the exception of Russia who is in bed the Islamic nations of the middle east as their arms supplier and nuclear materials supplier.

  According to what I believe, no later than 15 May 2011, the Ezekiel 38 Gog/Magog invasion and defeat will occure.   Persia, or modern day Iran, a very faithful muslim country is going to be destroyed by God.   All you have to do, pauline, is to listen to the gentleman who is the head of Iran to know that Gog/Magog is very close.

If Islam were the religion of God, it claims to be, then why does God  in Ezekiel 38-39 say that He is going to destroy all of those muslim countries and protect Israel.

Now, one could say Ezekiel 38 is a conspiriacy of the Jews to counter Islam - but the same writings are found in the Greek Septuagent - also called the "seventy", LXX, which dates back to Alexander the Great's day.   That preceeded Islam hundreds of years.   Since Islam was not known when the Greek Septuagent was translated by the Jews for the Greeks, no conspiriacy theory of the Jews having corrupted that part of the bible is possible.

Peace,

Doug L.


Posted By: pauline35
Date Posted: 18 February 2007 at 7:50am
Mr. Doug L, you are very convince about your prediction and I could see that you are acting like a prophet to tell about the future.

Having read your reply, I am now truly believe your prediction is merely for your own accord.

As you did mention that you have been studying the bible for 35 years, then you must have known there's some corrupted part(unless you are denying) where human had actually altered to suit individual's interpretation. In this case, it is called "the Bible has been tampered".

Any Bible that is tampered could not be proven as truly WORD OF GOD or prophecy.   There is one book THE BIBLE CODE, it prophesised a plague hit Israel in year 2006. Until todate, it never came true, does it?

Don't get any wrong ideas that I am defending Islam nor am I a muslim. I am a neutral party who lives a truthful life. I practice moderation and I certainly do not believe in any prophesy deriving from a corrupted bible. However, I do believe there is GOD and SATAN.

Open your eyes and find the truth.


Posted By: pauline35
Date Posted: 18 February 2007 at 8:04am
Mr. Doug quote : Now, one could say Ezekiel 38 is a conspiriacy of the Jews to counter Islam - but the same writings are found in the Greek Septuagent - also called the "seventy", LXX, which dates back to Alexander the Great's day.   That preceeded Islam hundreds of years.   Since Islam was not known when the Greek Septuagent was translated by the Jews for the Greeks, no conspiriacy theory of the Jews having corrupted that part of the bible is possible.

You must remember human are resourceful and intelligent. As to whether Ezekiel 38 is a conspiracy of Jews to counter Islam, it is irrelevant as it is not proving that the Bible is authentic and has never been tampered by human.

As human race has superb intelligence, human could also copy ancient findings to complement and support their findings.

Just my humble opinions.


Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 18 February 2007 at 8:05am

Hi Doug,

Prophecy was not really the subject or issue that God was interested in.

The message was consistent throughout the history of man and it was,"Thou shall only worship thy God the Lord Almighty." Moses said it, Jesus said it and Muhammad said the same.

The prophecy, that Jesus would return in the lifetime of his disciples, failed to come true. He did not! Shall we say that prophecy failed and it was wrong?

Great importance has been given to prophecies but the simple message was later distorted when the doctrine of trinity was pushed forward. That was the time, when Muhammad was sent to assert the perpetual message.

 



Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 18 February 2007 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by pauline35 pauline35 wrote:

Mr. Doug L, you are very convince about your prediction and I could see that you are acting like a prophet to tell about the future.

Having read your reply, I am now truly believe your prediction is merely for your own accord.

As you did mention that you have been studying the bible for 35 years, then you must have known there's some corrupted part(unless you are denying) where human had actually altered to suit individual's interpretation. In this case, it is called "the Bible has been tampered".

Any Bible that is tampered could not be proven as truly WORD OF GOD or prophecy.   There is one book THE BIBLE CODE, it prophesised a plague hit Israel in year 2006. Until todate, it never came true, does it?

Don't get any wrong ideas that I am defending Islam nor am I a muslim. I am a neutral party who lives a truthful life. I practice moderation and I certainly do not believe in any prophesy deriving from a corrupted bible. However, I do believe there is GOD and SATAN.

Open your eyes and find the truth.


Hi pauline,

I am definitely no prophet.   But understanding the prophecies that are already written in the bible is a gift from God and the bible says that the prophecies have been sealed from understanding until the end times - which we are living in that timeframe.

If a person is not interested in bible prophecy of what God says about the future and believes that the bible has been corrupted, - then why would He reveal any understanding of the prophecies to that person?  


Peace,

Doug L.


Posted By: pauline35
Date Posted: 23 February 2007 at 2:51am
Mr. Doug, this is what I mean, very evangelist.

Belief comes from truthfulness. The evidence of corruption is apparent and yet you are protecting it blindly. A true religion does not force one to hold strong belief in it for a true religion speaks only the truth and the logic.

I am extremely amazed with your only logic to worded such phrase : If a person is not interested in bible prophecy of what God says about the future and believes that the bible has been corrupted, - then why would He reveal any understanding of the prophecies to that person?   

If GOD tells about the future, then there will be no future for the future is being known by human. GOD only reminds human of the RULES OF CONSEQUENCES and THROUGH HIS COMMANDMENTS, GOD PROTECTS THE RIGHTEOUSNESS.

GOD could not possibly ignoring a human who is using his/her intelligence to learn about the truth for GOD'S NATURE IS LOVING AND CARING FOR HIS CREATION. It is certainly a false doctrine if FORCE is the command to make human obey. False doctrine only created by another alien forces to distract human from applying their logic. And IF human stop thinking, that is when the Satan starts possessing with delusions.

This is a very dangerous path when a human is commanded to obey blindly. This is hence a form of unwelcome force and unfair to any person who's seaching for the truth for GOD TELLS THE TRUTH AND GOD GIVES HUMAN AN INTELLIGENCE TO FIND THE TRUTH. ONLY SATAN GIVES HUMAN A PATH TO DELUSIONS AND SATAN CORRUPTS HUMAN MIND TO STAY IN THE DARK AWAY FROM THE TRUTH.

A true religion does not condone THE COMMAND BY FORCE. Every commandments in that TRUE RELIGIONS bear a consequences for the goodness NOT THREATS OR REVELATIONS FROM UNKNOWN SOURCES.



Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 23 February 2007 at 4:50am

Originally posted by pauline35 pauline35 wrote:

From Amah: Where did you you get this from??

I got the news from my country and the pastor who is my colleague confided to me that he receives special guest (almost every week) who requested to be baptised in his church. These 2% Muslims have started to embrace other religion since 9/11. One of my colleague(Zakri) that I know have embraced Christian because of believing that Islam teaches terrorism as what Osama did. What he didn't understand is that Osama is cultist. Zakri is attending the Christian church every sunday morning but still carries his muslim name. Another saddest thing is that the most latest trend is about using Islam as the foundation to swindle money from those gullible student who wants to learn about Islam. My point is Muslims around the world, need to be alert about cultist who misinterprets the teaching of true Islam.

Hi Pauline,

Thanks for your post and I am sorry for the delay in replying.

Peace.



-------------
Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)


Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 23 February 2007 at 9:03am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

as God will destroy those mulsim countries who come against Israel

DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL
The Assyrians conquered and destroyed the northern kingdom of Israel in about 722 BC (about 2700 years ago). The Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem in 586 BC (about 2600 years ago). Jerusalem and the Temple were later rebuilt but were destroyed again, this time by the Romans 70 AD. In 135 AD, the Romans again attacked and destroyed Jerusalem.


Israel was last destroyed by the romans, god did not destroy them at the time they became Christians.

Modern day Israel was established by European Jews who are not descendants of the twelve tribes of Judah, so modern Israel can never claim to be biblical Israel. 

They attacked the Muslims, does your bible mention anything about that.

What occurred to the descendants of Judah well after being persecuted and driven out by Christians they lived under Islamic rule peacefully for more than a thousand years and later actively opposed the creation of the abomination that is modern Israel because as any educated jew would know there is a prophecy in the Torah which states that the recreation of a jewish state ie modern Israel will ultimately lead to the downfall of the jewish community.




-------------
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.


Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 23 February 2007 at 4:44pm

rami,

"The Assyrians conquered and destroyed the northern kingdom of Israel in about 722 BC (about 2700 years ago). The Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem in 586 BC (about 2600 years ago). Jerusalem and the Temple were later rebuilt but were destroyed again, this time by the Romans 70 AD. In 135 AD, the Romans again attacked and destroyed Jerusalem."

Million thanks to Lord Almighty Allah, there is no record of Muslims destroying Jerusalem. In fact Lord Almighty preserved the Jews through the Muslims and kept them safe.  

All I can say is, there has to be a serious downfall in the holy lands which would warrant the coming of the long-and-much-awaited Messiah. If Messiah has to come, the land has to be in chaos and has to be under occupation as the Biblical and true History shows. For Messiah to come, Israel has to be in 1 BC or 1 AD.

There is no House of Israel left. The tribes are not there. There is currently not a single person, who can claim to be from the lineage of King David.

The prophecies never came true and the Jews had already lost the chance when the Messiah really came and went unrecognised. I am sorry to say that Jesus can't be coming for them many times.   

Anyway, to be precise, if prophecies are to come true, the condition of Jews and Israel has to deteriorate and only they are the ones who have to work hard on this. And who do they get after such a looooong period? Jesus again!

Best Regards & Salaam Alaikum

BMZ


 



Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 24 February 2007 at 2:40am
Originally posted by bmzsp bmzsp wrote:

rami,

"The Assyrians conquered and destroyed the northern kingdom of Israel in about 722 BC (about 2700 years ago). The Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem in 586 BC (about 2600 years ago). Jerusalem and the Temple were later rebuilt but were destroyed again, this time by the Romans 70 AD. In 135 AD, the Romans again attacked and destroyed Jerusalem."

Million thanks to Lord Almighty Allah, there is no record of Muslims destroying Jerusalem. In fact Lord Almighty preserved the Jews through the Muslims and kept them safe.  

All I can say is, there has to be a serious downfall in the holy lands which would warrant the coming of the long-and-much-awaited Messiah. If Messiah has to come, the land has to be in chaos and has to be under occupation as the Biblical and true History shows. For Messiah to come, Israel has to be in 1 BC or 1 AD.

There is no House of Israel left. The tribes are not there. There is currently not a single person, who can claim to be from the lineage of King David.

The prophecies never came true and the Jews had already lost the chance when the Messiah really came and went unrecognised. I am sorry to say that Jesus can't be coming for them many times.   

Anyway, to be precise, if prophecies are to come true, the condition of Jews and Israel has to deteriorate and only they are the ones who have to work hard on this. And who do they get after such a looooong period? Jesus again!

Best Regards & Salaam Alaikum

BMZ


Hi BMZ,  But the invading countries listed in Ezekiel 38 are muslim countries - not Israel.    Those verses don't say a word about alleged not really jews moving to the land from those countries - as being Gog/Magog.    The countries that attack, do so with their ARMIES.   100% guaranteed.    The Jews, not the Paliestinians, not the Arabs, not the Persians, not the Syrians will be burning the weapons for 7 years afterwards.   Ezekiel 39.

39:8  Behold, it is http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=0935 - come , and it is http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=01961 - done , http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=05002 - saith the http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=0136 - Lord http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=03069 - GOD; this is the http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=03117 - day whereof I have http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=01696 - spoken .
39:9  And they that http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=03427 - dwell in the http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=05892 - cities of http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=03478 - Israel shall go http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=03318 - forth , and shall http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=01197 - set on http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=0784 - fire and http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=05400 - burn the http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=05402 - weapons, both the http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=04043 - shields and the http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=06793 - bucklers, the http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=07198 - bows and the http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=02671 - arrows, and the http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=04731 - handstaves http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=03027 - * , and the http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=07420 - spears, and they shall http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=01197 - burn them with http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=0784 - fire http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=07651 - seven http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=08141 - years:
There is also a bible passage that Damascus will be destroyed.   That prophecy has nevered been fulfilled.   Now Damascus is a muslim city.  Syria just this years entered into a pack with Iran (persia) if one is attacked then the other joins in defending.    Surely you can see that Iran is going to be attacked by either the U.S. and/or Isael.    There is no choice because of the leader of Iran has pledged the destruction Israel and will haven nuclear weapons soon.

Some have theorized that Irans will attack American trops in Iraq first.
Whatever begins the war aside, would you agree with me that war with Iran and the nonn-muslim countries is coming very shortly?

Peace,

Doug L.

 




Posted By: pauline35
Date Posted: 24 February 2007 at 3:00am
To Amah, you're welcome.


Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 24 February 2007 at 8:52am

Hi Doug,

Most of the biblical prophecies have never come true. Even the prophecy attributed to a child being born was never a prophecy for Jesus. The Temple has never been rebuilt. Jesus did not return during the life-time of his disciples.

No, it can't be Muslims. Jeruslaem had always been destroyed by the Romans and others. It was never destroyed by the Muslims. I think Ezekiel was referring possibly to the Russians, the Germans, the Spanish, the English and many other Westerners who persecuted and killed millions of Jews. Damascus never destroyed Jerusalem so why should the Lord destroy Damascus?

The Lord already did enough damage by assisting Joshua who went on a killing spree under the direct guidance and supervision of YHVH. Please read the chapter on Joshua in the Holy Bible. All of that was done within the boundaries of current Israel. May be God destroyed those tribes who were doing the fighting in the holy lands. 

I don't believe that US will attack Iran. US is already stuck up in the mudpit or the greatest quagmire in Iraq, a failed story. US does not have enough manpower, whereas the region spreading out from Afghanistan to the borders of saudi Arabia has millios of people who would give up their lives, if attacked by US. You have seen that in Iraq and Afghanistan. US and Nato are begging for more troops!

Israel has already learnt a lesson at the hands of Hizbullah and had for the first time, to fight more than 33 days. Israel will be domesticated soon as it has been humbled.

Most of the prophecies in the Bible are actually like curses. They  mean nothing. The interpretations are wishful thinkings.

From you: "Some have theorized that Irans will attack American trops in Iraq first."

Iranians are smart people. They have already kept US away from their doors for the last 27 years.

From you: "Whatever begins the war aside, would you agree with me that war with Iran and the non-muslim countries is coming very shortly?"

No, I cannot agree with you on above. Would you include Russia, China, South America, Japan, Africa, the entire Far East and the South-East to be fighting for fulfilling these biblical prophecies?

Why should the entire world die and destroy for the sake of a few million people and some false prophecies to come true? Unless you believe that God wants another Joshua to ruin this world. No, I do not believe in the biblical prophecies.

I was at a party where most of the elderly were just talking about  the end of the world, the Dooms Day, etc., which according to them was very near. Some said they could see it coming.

I told them,"Please let our young children grow and let them enjoy their life, instead of wishing for their early demise and disposal, because you are already too old!!! Why do you wish death and destruction for your kids and the younger generations?"

BMZ

 



Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 25 February 2007 at 5:33am
Most of the biblical prophecies have never come true. Even the prophecy attributed to a child being born was never a prophecy for Jesus. The Temple has never been rebuilt. Jesus did not return during the life-time of his disciples.

No, it can't be Muslims. Jeruslaem had always been destroyed by the Romans and others. It was never destroyed by the Muslims. I think Ezekiel was referring possibly to the Russians, the Germans, the Spanish, the English and many other Westerners who persecuted and killed millions of Jews. Damascus never destroyed Jerusalem so why should the Lord destroy Damascus?

Hi BMZ, the prophecy in Ezekiel 38 has nothing to do with who destroyed Jerusalem in the past.   The invasion of Gog/Magog is against the nation of Israel, the way the verses read, not isolated to Jerusalem.

As far as Damacus, the reason why is because of one thing IMHO - Islam.   It is because of Islam that Syria is so embattled with Israel and the Jews.    I agree with you that Damascus never destroyed Jerusalem... so payback of something that never happened is not the reason.  

What I am trying to get you to see is that Ezekiel 38 those invading forces being Muslim, and the other prophecy about Damascus being destroyed - will invalidate Islam as a religion.    Something that is very difficult for a muslim to accept - that much I can sincerely appreciate.
Nonetheless, as uncomfortably as it may make a muslim feel, I am still against Satan though as deceiving my brothers and sisters of the human race.   Which Satan is intent upon destroying all of us, our souls... by whatever means possible.

I don't believe that US will attack Iran. US is already stuck up in the mudpit or the greatest quagmire in Iraq, a failed story. US does not have enough manpower, whereas the region spreading out from Afghanistan to the borders of saudi Arabia has millios of people who would give up their lives, if attacked by US. You have seen that in Iraq and Afghanistan. US and Nato are begging for more troops!

Allow me to say that I am not relying upon the US for the redemption of my soul and body.   I am just a stranger passing through this world.   In fact, all nations including the US will come up against Israel at the end of the great tribulation period.   But that is at least 7 years away.   Right now though the US is clearly backing Israel.

George Bush is stepping up the numbers of troops in Iraq.  Iran is bordered by U.S. troops in Iraq and Afaghanistan.   The US has carriers and nuclear subs within striking distance to Iran.   The US will not rely on manpower, but by technology and air delivered ordinance.
The US also has tactical nuclear weapons that could be flown to the region very quickly that could be used even by artillery, if need be.  America's enemies have always underestimated the US's resolve to resort to the extreme when pushed to a critical point.

Israel has already learnt a lesson at the hands of Hizbullah and had for the first time, to fight more than 33 days. Israel will be domesticated soon as it has been humbled.

Hizbullah gets its support from Syria.   Damascus is the capital of Syria.   Syria has a pact with Iran.    There is a possibity that what provokes the Gog/Magog attack by the muslim nations is that Israel nukes Damascus - maybe, it is just a theory, but a pretty good one.

Most of the prophecies in the Bible are actually like curses. They  mean nothing. The interpretations are wishful thinkings.

Many are definitely like curses, but the individual can get in sync with God and receive a blessing while others who refuse get the curse.   A person is not in sync apart from Jesus.

From you: "Some have theorized that Irans will attack American trops in Iraq first."

Iranians are smart people. They have already kept US away from their doors for the last 27 years.

It is just one of many theories, BMZ.   Well, the US is on their doorstep right now.  Front door and back door.  Iran would have to split it forces to fight on two sides at the extreme opposite ends of their country.   And recently, the focus I hear from Iraqi governement and the US, is going to be to seal off the borders of Iraq from both Iran and Syria.   Which may mean relocation of US troops and forces near Iran's border.   The US would be pushing right up to Iran's door knocker.

From you: "Whatever begins the war aside, would you agree with me that war with Iran and the non-muslim countries is coming very shortly?"

No, I cannot agree with you on above. Would you include Russia, China, South America, Japan, Africa, the entire Far East and the South-East to be fighting for fulfilling these biblical prophecies?

Okay, becaue we are just talking here anyway.   I would include Russia as part of the Gog/Magog invasion.   But not the other countries.

There are bible prophecies that come after Gog/Magog that do include all of those countries you listed.   In fact, all countries of the world.

Gog/Magog is the event that will lead into the time of Jacob's troubles, i.e. a time of trouble for the Jews.    Isalm will be basically destroyed as a religon and force when Gog/Magog occures.   The world and the Jews especially will be jubliant.  They will think that the world has entered the messianic age, because Judaism messiah will arrive in Israel right after Gog/Magog, and will deceive the Jews by confirming the Mt. Sinai convenant to restart the sacrifices along with the rebuilding of the temple (which will never be possible as long as Islam is present).   But it will happen because the prophecies say that there will be a temple built.

Everything will be great, until Judaism's messiah shows his true colors by going into the temple and declaring himself to be god.   That is when the time of Jacob's troubles goes into full force, because the Jews will reject the Antichrist, and will finally accept Jesus as their messiah.   For which the Antichrist persecutes them.   God reigns down judgment after judgment upon the Antichrist's worldwide kingdom.   

Near the end, the nations of the world become disenchanted with the Antichrist's claim to be god - and attack him.
That would be all of the countries you listed, plus other nations as well.   The European countries, lead by ten kings, will maintain their allegiance though.  The account of the Antichrist being attacked is in Daniel 11:40-45.   The Antichrist, because he originates from Europe and is supported by ten European kings, is the king of the West.   He is first attacked from the South.   Then the North.   Then the East.
Thus drawing all nations into the middle east.    Then something happens that paralyzes them - the heavens are upheavaled, the stars drop from the sky, and the universe is folded back - that is what is called the second heaven.   The world sees Jesus and his armies in heaven (the third heaven).    Terrified, because they nations have spent three and a half years martyring those who came to believe in Jesus during that terrible time, and because in Revelation 19 it says his garments will be soaked in blood, the blood of the saints that they had killed.    Those nations that you asked about, including the US, will assemble into a great force at Armageddon and march against Jerusalem (Zechariah 14) to destroy the Jews there and to literally try to stop Jesus by the combined force of the world's armada.    Personally, I think it will be an incomprehendsible sight.    In Pslams 2.... why do the heathen rage and image a vain thing.

Why should the entire world die and destroy for the sake of a few million people and some false prophecies to come true? Unless you believe that God wants another Joshua to ruin this world. No, I do not believe in the biblical prophecies.

The prophecies are meant for you to be eternally blessed.  The idea is to get on board with God's plan to redeem our souls and our bodies, through Jesus.  The prophecies hold no curse for Christians.

I was at a party where most of the elderly were just talking about  the end of the world, the Dooms Day, etc., which according to them was very near. Some said they could see it coming.


I told them,"Please let our young children grow and let them enjoy their life, instead of wishing for their early demise and disposal, because you are already too old!!! Why do you wish death and destruction for your kids and the younger generations?"





Posted By: pauline35
Date Posted: 28 February 2007 at 3:39am
Dear Uncle Doug, you've seemed to be somewhere out of this world. Could you please come back to the real world?

You said : "Allow me to say that I am not relying upon the US for the redemption of my soul and body.   I am just a stranger passing through this world.   In fact, all nations including the US will come up against Israel at the end of the great tribulation period.   But that is at least 7 years away.   Right now though the US is clearly backing Israel."

On behalf of GOD and his merciful blessings, please be updated that it is happening now as we write. What do you think that Japan is withdrawing their troops end of their contract (between US and Japan)? What about the reduction of troops initiated by Britain? Is this not a bigger sign for you? With or without the Bible's revelation, it is human's nature, the greed to conquer the whole world.

You quote : "What I am trying to get you to see is that Ezekiel 38 those invading forces being Muslim, and the other prophecy about Damascus being destroyed - will INVALIDATE Islam as a religion.    Something that is very difficult for a muslim to accept - that much I can sincerely appreciate. Nonetheless, as uncomfortably as it may make a muslim feel, I am still against Satan though as deceiving my brothers and sisters of the human race.   Which Satan is intent upon destroying all of us, our souls... by whatever means possible."

Clearly, you have agreed that Islam being the most popular religion, should be invalidated for you have implied that Satan is the guardian for this religion.

What you ought to know is that in this world, only the missionary evangelists would have wished Islam be invalidated. It is evangelist's wish that Islam be condemned and invalidated based on your baseless foundation and the corrupted bible which Christian entrusted as WORDS OF GOD.

For GOD's sake, please be reminded that you could be expelled from this forum for this contempt. YOU ARE CHRISTIAN EVANGELIST and there's no doubt about it.

The more you say, the more you show your true colours. Thick skinned and one sided are not balanced. Thus, the result is very prejudice.


Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 24 January 2015 at 10:26am
Originally posted by Arab Arab wrote:

which would Satan chose to create, a religion which propagates worshiping idols, or worshiping God alone?


He would create a religion that worshiped himself alone... through the deception of calling himself God.

asalaam.



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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 26 January 2015 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by Josh_345 Josh_345 wrote:

I`m a Christain, and Islam doesent make any sense. (please dont be offended, leave if you might be :))


Anyways, I am a christain. I will admit i`m not the strongest Christain. I believe Islam was created by Satan, and he told Muhammed this. Also Christainity makes more sense.
The Bible says Iseral would come back (I think it does im 99% sure) and Iseral is back.
Thats just my thoughts.


Josh,
you say you are Christian. Do you follow Jesus? Are you circumcised? Do you put your head to the ground like Jesus did, when you worship God? Do you follow the Law of Moses like Jesus said? If you answered no to any one those questions you are not a Christian in reality. You are just imagining things, and you are not alone in this world doing that. Does our imagination make us who we claim we are? or it is our practice?
Hasan

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39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"



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