Hi folks,

This is the second part of my post about my study of the quran as a true none-believer. You folks see the book as perfect, however I see it from a sceintific point of view. Can you please respond with quran vesus to show that my interpretation is wrong. For example, show me where is states that the sun circles in a galaxy, and the earth orbits the sun and the moon orbits the earth? Because I can't find it in the Quran.

         <My comments are as such>

http://humanists.net/avijit/article/flat_earth_kasem.htm

All quotes are from a pro-islamic site.

http://humanists.net/avijit/article/flat_earth_kasem.htm - http://humanists.net/avijit/article/flat_earth_kasem.htm

Allah's Flat Earth and His Cosmos.

�        Earth spread out (like a carpet), mountains firm�15:19

[al-Hijr 15:19] And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable;

�        Allah spread out earth and set mountains standing firm�50: 7

<This is wrong because mountains do move thanks to plate tectonics, Muhammad didn�t know about this as proven by this verse>

�        God made earth like a carpet spread out�20:53

 [Ta Ha 20:53] "He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky." With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others.

Allah made the earth a carpet�71:19

 [Nuh 71:19] "'And God has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out),

<There are two mistakes here. A carpet implies the world is flat (show me where is states is a sphere), it should have said: god made the earth like a mellon but only 100 million times larger. The second error:  not all planets are produced in pairs. Some reproduce asexually>

Allah set up mountains firm lest the earth shake�16:15

 [an-Nahl 16:15] And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves;

<This implies that allah made the rivers, but he never, rivers are self organising systems they don�t need a creator. Early man knew nothing of geology time scale, neither did muhammad.>

�        Allah set mountains firm for earth not to shake�31:10

 [Luqman 31:10] He created the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; He set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and He scattered through it beasts of all kinds. We send down rain from the sky, and produce on the earth every kind of noble creature, in pairs.

<Not all animals exist in pairs, simple animals reproduce by asexual reproduction. There is no male- female sponge. Muhammad didn�t know this! A god would have>

�        The sun and the moon run its course and Allah regulates all affairs�13:2

 [ar-Ra`d 13:2] God is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)!

<god is he who raised the heaven without pillars? This implies that the earth is the center of the universe? Earth is in the arm of a spiral galaxy, one of 100 billion stars in 100 billion galaxies. The sun and moon are not subject to allah�s laws, they are governed by gravity. Muhammad didn�t know that the same gravity pulling an apple also controls the planet. He also didn�t know how fractal the universe is, or that earth wasn�t that important. This is proof of a simple man's POV!>

�        Allah made constellations in sky and put lamp (the sun) and a moon giving light�25:61

 [al-Furqan 25:61] Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp and a Moon giving light;

<There is no proof in the quran that mudammad knew the earth went around the sun, and the sun went around the galaxy, and the moon went around the earth. Here he thinks the moon has its own light, when really the sun gives it the light. Another simple mistake.>

�        Allah has appointed mansions for moon till she returns like an old withered palm leaf�36:39

 [Ya Sin 36:39] And the Moon,- We have measured for her mansions (to traverse) till she returns like the old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk.

<More proof that Muhammad knew nothing about the moon's orbit and where it went after it sank! A smart man in 600 having seen a solar and lunar eclipse could have figured this out. Proof Muhammad was never told much by god>

(36.28) He said, "Its fixed course is underneath Allah's Throne."

�        The sun's fixed course is underneath Allah's throne�93.528

Volume 6, Book 60, Number 327:

Narrated Abu Dharr:

I asked the Prophet about the Statement of Allah:--

'And the sun runs on fixed course for a term (decreed), ' (36.38) He said, "Its course is underneath "Allah's Throne." (Prostration of Sun trees, stars. mentioned in Qur'an and Hadith does not mean like our prostration but it means that these objects are obedient to their Creator (Allah) and they obey for what they have been created for).

<the sun is not under allah�s throne? It is really in a galaxy, turning like oil in water, but Muhammad didn�t know this because he didn�t see another galaxy in a telescope, he didn�t know the concept of a galaxy>

[as-Sajdah 32:4] It is God Who has created the heavens and the earth, and all between them, in six Days, and is firmly established on the Throne (of Authority): ye have none, besides Him, to protect or intercede (for you): will ye not then receive admonition?

<The Arabs were good with maths. Muhammad could have conceptualised a number like 14 billion. God could have told him 14B, he could have understood. This alone is proof that god never talked to a man, yet muslims twist this to say god�s time is different than our time. Nonsense>

Show me please more creation versus to put it right? 

oh man dude, this is where i role my sleeves up for a fine challange!  hahahaha hohohoho hehehehe!!!  jk,jk,jk

no seriously, i've been through this before a couple years back... i had a challange by my evolutionary biology teacher, interpreting misunderstood verses. it was thrilling! my teacher got so involved and surprised of the results about the quran and muslims, he kept telling me to come back for more interesting discussion.   personally i think i've become a pro at these things. 

~~~~

So mister david (fogtrick), lemme get this strait...  (ahem,) you read the quran, interpret it literally and limit it's meanings to the english definition of them arabic words. 

hmmm... first off, do you know anything about the arabic language? 

do you know that one word in arabic could have a number of meanings in english or it's english equivalent might just lightly touch upon the more vast depth of the real meaning in arabic? 

before you read the whole quran, there's an introduction. you know, a preface?  read it. it shows you how one could approach the Quran.

Lemme enlighten you a little by bringing in an excerpt from the Preface: " Before the reader begins to study the Quran, he must realize that unlike all other writings, this is a unique book with a...universal relevance.  It's contents are not confined to a particular theme or style, but contain the foundations for an entire system of life, covering a whole spectrum of issues...These issues are discussed in a variety of ways...Stories of the past are narrated, followed by the lessons to be learned...Given the depth as well as the sublimity of the Quranic text, a faithful translation of it into another language is virtually impossible... But as translation is one of the few ways to export the message of the Quran to allow those lacking in knowledge of Arabic to share the Quran, it becomes a duity for those in a position to fulfil this task (of translating the quran)...The translation by the late Ustadh Abdullah Yousif Ali was consequently chosen for its distinguishing characteristics, such as ...choice of words close to the meaning of the original text, accompanied by scholarly notes and commentaries."

   Allah spread out earth and set mountains standing firm�50: 7

<This is wrong because mountains do move thanks to plate tectonics, Muhammad didn�t know about this as proven by this verse>

Foggy ol' pal, have you not read the verse "And We have set on earth firm mountains lest it should shake with them," (21:32) 

To the perception of the general public, if you go around telling them mountains move, they'll think you're on drugs.  tell a kid that mountains are not firm but instead they are wobbly and he'll get nightmares from your ingeniousness. 

the experience of an earthquake, where then all things move, is a logical time to bring up a point that plate tectonics make and break mountains. That's where the verse i pointed out comes in.  

so when you read a verse in the Quran that says that Allah created mountains standing firm or immovable, that's plain common sense and doesn't negate the existence of earthquakes or plate tectonics. 

stating something true doesn't eliminate another equally true thing.  Make that a rule of thumb for ya.

�        God made earth like a carpet spread out�20:53

With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others.

 Allah made the earth a carpet�71:19

 <There are two mistakes here. A carpet implies the world is flat (show me where is states is a sphere), it should have said: god made the earth like a mellon but only 100 million times larger. The second error:  not all planets are produced in pairs. Some reproduce asexually>

Let's complete the verse so that the reader doesn't get the wrong impression by the use of the word 'carpet' shall we?:  Allah has made the earth like a carpet which: 'has enabled you to go about therin by roads..." (20:53)

hmmm... i'm thinking, i'm thinking.        &nb sp;         &nb sp;       nope,

There is nothing in this verse that could make me think that the verse implies the earth is flat.  It specifically implies that the earth is 'spread out like a carpet' for us to 'go about therin by roads'.   

I think you are getting delusional here.  either that or you are thinking too hard.  Do this for me.  go outside your house. take a look outside.  do you see a convex curve of the ground where the middle seems at a higher point than the areas further away from the middle? Does it seem the farther you look from the middle the more it descends downward in a convex motion relating to the roundness of the earth? or do you see the landscape it wide, spread out with roads and avenues in every direction?   hmmm?   When they say �a hill covered in a carpet of grass' does that imply that the hill is flat?!  It would never even cross my mind.  it's a phrase that implies vastness and spaciousness.

nuf' said.

I�ll get back to them other verses in the morrow.

thanks Amalhayati2,

I'll be sure to get a hard copy and read it from the start. I'm interested to read more of it. Discussion is good. I'll read more links you point me towards. fogtrik. 

[an-Nahl 16:15] And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves;

<This implies that allah made the rivers, but he never, rivers are self organising systems they don�t need a creator. Early man knew nothing of geology time scale, neither did muhammad.>

we all know how rivers developed through natural processes. that doesn�t dismiss the existence of a creator.  It is Allah who governs the laws and methods of nature that in turn through changing environments brings about rivers, streams, forests, deserts etc.  it is He who controls the laws of nature and therefore it is only logical to connect Allah to the generation of these rivers and streams.

�        Allah set mountains firm for earth not to shake�31:10

 [Luqman 31:10] He created the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; He set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and He scattered through it beasts of all kinds. We send down rain from the sky, and produce on the earth every kind of noble creature, in pairs.

 <Not all animals exist in pairs, simple animals reproduce by asexual reproduction. There is no male- female sponge. Muhammad didn�t know this! A god would have>

hmmm.. simply put: a true statement doesn�t override or deny another equally true statement.  This verse relates a very true and viable fact: the existence of male and female parts.  It doesn�t negate the fact that there is also asexual reproduction.  Additionally I don�t think it is quite fathomable to introduce this additional info to a 7^th century people with a 7^th century mind capacity.  Tools have only gotten high tech just in these recent decades.

Nonetheless, Allah always makes it clear that there is a lot out there that He knows of and we still don�t know.  So Allah commands us to explore and find out (I think I told you this before):

Read! And they Lord is Most Bountiful. He to taught use of the pen, Taught man that which he knew not.  (96:3-5)

There are a number of verses that relate the endless knowledge that is out there that we humans could only grasp only so much of it.  Here is an example:

Say, �if the sea were ink for [writing] the words of my Lord, the sea would be exhausted before the words of m Lord were exhausted, even if We brought the like of it as a supplement.�  (18:109)

This verse relates the infinite Knowledge of Allah.  If one were to write out all the knowledge that Allah has, using an ocean full of ink- the ocean would be used up before the knowledge of Allah has been completely written. The verse ends with saying- even if He (Allah) filled up the ocean a second time, and one continued to write down the extensive knowledge of Allah, one will use it up again and the knowledge of Allah will not have ended.

 .  

Although �Muhammad didn�t know this!� he never preached to know all anyways.  He just preached that he knows best. (That�s why we Muslims follow in his footsteps in character and deed).  Remember Fogtrik, our prophet was illiterate.  He didn�t know how to read or write.  He did however know that there is more knowledge out there and preached that fact.  Why then do you have ancient Muslims scholars as those who contributed most to the foundation in the fields of  medicine/astronomy/mathematics?  Simply, Islam teaches to excel in knowledge.

fogtrik,

From you: "This is the second part of my post about my study of the quran as a true none-believer. You folks see the book as perfect, however I see it from a sceintific point of view."

Qur'aan is not a text book on Science.

You have to see it only from this point of view: "You shall worship only the Lord Almighty with all your hearts, all your minds and all your souls."

�        The sun and the moon run its course and Allah regulates all affairs�13:2

 [ar-Ra`d 13:2] God is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)!

<god is he who raised the heaven without pillars? This implies that the earth is the center of the universe? Earth is in the arm of a spiral galaxy, one of 100 billion stars in 100 billion galaxies. The sun and moon are not subject to allah�s laws, they are governed by gravity. Muhammad didn�t know that the same gravity pulling an apple also controls the planet. He also didn�t know how fractal the universe is, or that earth wasn�t that important. This is proof of a simple man's POV!>

foggy, is your eyesight getting a bit too fogged up? Can�t you see what these verses are saying?  Man, I don�t even need to open the Quran to look up any commentaries on the verses you question!  Your perception is what needs fixin dude.  The in space, the heavens you see above us, -do you see anything that is keeping them above us?  Like any pillars?  It comes from an understanding that a ceiling needs pillars to keep it up.  The roof of a house is built on the walls of the house.  So when the vast heavens are extended above us, and there is no �pillars� or anything physical holding it up, it�s a wonder.  Especially in the 7^th century. The Quran came down in the 7^th century.  Today in the 21^st century, we discovered the law of gravity and other laws that permit the heavens to be the way they are.  What we know today hasn�t nullified any verses of the Quran.  What we keep figuring out these days are a part of the everlasting knowledge that is out there that Allah has and that we are figuring out.  Refer back to them verses I told ya about the infinite knowledge of Allah. (meaning the infinite discoveries of His creation, His creatures, His laws etc)

 This verse DOESN�T IMPLY THAT THE EARTH IS THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE.

Also, when you say �the sun and moon are not subject to Allah�s laws but are governed by gravity� it�s like saying a kid is not subject to his momma�s rules but is governed by her jurisprudence.   Gravity, fogtrik, is part of the framework of the laws that Allah created.  He created gravity so yes, you are right to say that the sun and moon are governed by gravity.   The verse doesn�t negate that fact. 

Yes, the people at the time didn�t know �that the same gravity pulling an apple also controls the planet. [and they] also didn�t know how fractal the universe is�.  Let me remind you they are ppl of the 7^th century.  Whatever they knew is what was stated in the Quran and explained by Sayyidina Muhammad in the books of Hadith.  They �submit themselves to Allah and His messenger�.  That�s what Muslim means dude.  �The one who submits� 

Besides, the people at the time (1400 years ago) were extravagant in faith, deed and wisdom more than extravagant in astronomy, math, physics, etc.  that doesn�t lessen the veracity of the Quran in any way though.  The Quran is a universal message.

The Quran didn�t specify the word gravity when relating the movement of sun and moon.  The word �law� was used.  And over the centuries, we humans were curious to learn specifically what laws are out there that these planets are governed by.  And we figured out: gravity.  A 7^th century person would take this verse and understand that there are laws that Allah created that govern the movement of sun and moon. 

, a 21^st century person on the other hand, when reading this verse, �gravity� comes to mind as one of the laws of Allah that He set the standard for movement of sun and moon.

You see what I mean? 

~Amal

�        Allah made constellations in sky and put lamp (the sun) and a moon giving light�25:61

 [al-Furqan 25:61] Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp and a Moon giving light;

<There is no proof in the quran that mudammad knew the earth went around the sun, and the sun went around the galaxy, and the moon went around the earth. Here he thinks the moon has its own light, when really the sun gives it the light. Another simple mistake.>

This verse states that the sun is a lamp and the moon is a light.  In Arabic, the word for light is �noor�.  Like I said Arabic words have such deeper meanings than it�s English equivalent, there are a number of ways one could express �noor� in English.  �Noor� not only means light, but also it means a reflection of light or a glow.  Like as in �your face is glowing� in Arabic: �wijjik fi noor�.  So another definition of �noor� is reflected light or glow.  In the English translation they explain how �light� is in reference to �reflection from the lamp� 

So, this verse actually relates that the sun is the source of light whereas the moon is the reflection of it, ie: giving light. In Arabic, the phrase �qamaran muneera� meens �a moon giving or reflecting light.�

So in actuality this verse proves that it is the sun that brings forth light while the moon is lit because of the sun.  This is just more proof that the Quran is the Word of God and not some words from some genious in the 7^th century who randomly said �the sun is a source of light and moon is the reflection of it�.  That�s silly.  Their scope of knowledge about astronomy was limited back then.  So these words couldn�t have been written by human hands.  They are the very words of Allah.  We know that sayidina Muhammad didn�t know these things during that time.  The Quran, may I remind you, is the Words of Allah not the words of Muhammad.  Allah taught Sayidina Muhammad knowledge.  Sayyidina Muhammad didn�t come up with it all by himself. 

The quran is not there to prove that Sayidina Muhammaed knew of how �the earth went around the sun, and the sun went around the galaxy, and the moon went around the earth.�  The Qruan is there as a universal message that Allah portrays His signs and provides the natural codes of life that behoves us all to comply with: it is based within the simple doctrine of Islam. 

�        Allah has appointed mansions for moon till she returns like an old withered palm leaf�36:39

 [Ya Sin 36:39] And the Moon,- We have measured for her mansions (to traverse) till she returns like the old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk.

<More proof that Muhammad knew nothing about the moon's orbit and where it went after it sank! A smart man in 600 having seen a solar and lunar eclipse could have figured this out. Proof Muhammad was never told much by god>

Fogtrik, your inquiries disgust me.  You really don�t have the right perception in reading these very clear verses and neither do you understand that these are the words of Allah- not the words of Sayyidina Muhammad.  I don�t� know why in every argument you add �muhammad didn�t know��  Sayyidina Muhammad didn�t write these verses, he is illiterate!  And what he knows is what Allah explained to him about each verse in the whole Quran.  So his knowledge far exceeds our own in explaining the Quran.  If you wanted to bring prophet Muhammad in the picture, you bring sources from books of Hadith. 

Here is the commentary of the above verse :  �The lunar stations (or mansions)  are the 28 divisions of the Zodiac, which are supposed to mark the daily course of the moon in the heavens from the time of the new moon to the time when the moon fades away in her �inter-lunar swoon�, an expressive phrase coined by the poet Shelly.  �Urjun: A raceme of dates or of a date-palm; or the base...of the raceme.  When it becomes old, it becomes yellow, dry and withered, and curves up like a sickle. Hence the comparison with the sickle-like appearance of the new moon. The moon runs through all her phases, increasing and decreasing, until she disappears, and then reappears as a little thin curve.�

I suggest you get the Quran with the English translation AND COMMENTARY that would give you some more clear explanations of these verses you question. 

No more of this nonsense, your accusations are nowhere near intelligent or logical. you�re all mixed up in your perception of these very clear verses.  Once you get a Quran that has comprehensive commentary and you read the intro of what to expect before studying this Holy Book, then you might be a little bit more clear-minded. 

Then you wouldn�t make a fool out of yourself asking these preposterous and baseless questions.

fogtrik wrote: <The Arabs were good with maths. Muhammad could have conceptualised a number like 14 billion. God could have told him 14B, he could have understood. This alone is proof that god never talked to a man, yet muslims twist this to say god�s time is different than our time. Nonsense>

I think the arabs were NOT good at math until Islam's time. If history is correct when
Muhammad started his mission there were about ten people who could read and
write in arabia, so their illiteracy include mathematic as well, what do you think fog?

Btw amalhayati2 has replied your query anything in it objectionable or agreeable to you?
part of it? or all of it?

Your post is all the way into wide screen by the way, it's really annoying.

fogtrik wrote: The Arabs were good with maths Muhammad could have conceptualised a number like 14 billion. God could have told him 14B, he could have understood.
I replied: I think the arabs were NOT good at math until Islam's time

Cyril wrote: Are you joking or is that a case of lowering pre-Islamic Arabs to glorify Islam? The Nabatean Arabs had a script of their own as the Arabic kingdoms in Southern Arabia. The Arabs of Central Western Arabia had a very defective script which was used to write the Quran. It had eventually to be perfected in a similar way as Hebrew to note vowel sounds and end conflicting views on pronunciation. I believe several thousands pre-Islamic Arabs knew that script.

My mother and my grandmother were two illiterate women in real sense of words, altho my mother asked me to show her in private what A B C look like, and how they sound. My grandmother died in the late 80's without knowing A or B nor 1 or 2. From real life experience I can see what the ummiy (illiterate) means in the Qur'an.

My mother was born around 1927. My father was lucky he went to primary school for three years, that's why he was so proud to tell me that he also knew what A B C look like. From this I can see what 1300 years look like behind them.

Of course Europe was a bit different, just by extra 500 years. Still though to look back for another 800 years behind Europe I see darkness everywhere.

Sometimes I wish to listen directly to what those historians actually have in mind while they talk. Do they see just like the way as I see?

Does anyone know where fogtrik went?    hmmm... pitty, we were on a roll here

probably cat caught his tongue, or there's a frog in his throat.  whichever -we're "all realated anyways"     by the fact we've been created by means of ONE method, by ONE God who also created nature and the laws that govern it.

*Allahumma inni radaitu billahi rabban, wa bil islami deenan, wabi muhammad nabiyan wa rasulan"

"Oh Allah, I accept Allah as my Lord, and Islam as my religion, and Muhammad as a Prophet and Messenger."

Religion makes people ignorant. Man has not been created by one method! One book says so, but possibly several hundred million pages support evolution. You understand non of it and therefore post closed minded silly things like this. Instead of your am prey, why don't you spend 30 minutes reading wikipedia.org about evolution, they dumb it down for the average reader? Fog.

David, there's not room here for anti-islamic remarks.  you don't know anything about the quran and you shouldn't try to arugue about it. you're a bad excuse for a debator.   it's common sence for a book of belief to have both rewards and punnishment. if you done something horrible when you were young and yo pops gave you a whoppin, that's what you deserved.  it's not because your pops is a horrific man. 

common sense david, that's all you need to understand the quran. 

by the way, in your PM you misspelled my name just how i misspelled yours- my name is Amal not Amay.

tell your 'muslim' friend that he don't know nothing about his religion and he's a sore excuse for a muslim.  just let him start reading the quran and you'll see how he gets rebound. 

20,000 women convert to islam a year.  try to explain that.

Lemme enlighten you a little about the base foundation of the theory of evolution if youstill didnt know. 

Evolution is based on chance, probability.  in class they taught us that life arose by chance about 3 billion years ago. this is called the 'prebiotic soup'.  it's just a mixture of atoms of clay, water and other organic substances.  according to what my teacher taught me in evolution class, she said that molecules formed from these atoms and those molecules in turn formed macromolecules and eventually a whole cell with hundreds of different functions.    this is how life 'evolved'

simple enough?

here's the gig: let's take the simplest progein with 500 amino acids. (that's really small in comparison to how many genes our protiens are composed of.)   let's determine the probability of that protein to come into being by chance alone. 

  the chance of a protein with 500 aa being formed by chance is 1 over 10⁹⁵⁰  that's  1/1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000  etc

put it in a calculator.  what'd u get?    a    b i g    f a t   0

you can't avoid divine intervention dude. they evolutionaryists couldn't either- they just over looked this and kept building on a baseless theory.

my teacher lightly touched upon this issue about chance in class.  but she ran over it quickely and lightly (as if the class wouldn't understad math probabilities and she wanted to get on with the next topic- 'Prince' Darwin and his 'revolutionary role')  when i raised my hand to ask 'then how come we are still building upon the theory of evolution when the foundation is nonexistant?  if you said it (subliminally) that there is 0 chance then why are you making assumptions of if's and and's'  she skipped over me.   (i had asked a couple other similar questions that she didn't like and could't provide an answer to that she got irritated and ignored me)

our hemoglobin molecule has 540 aa  if u think we're going to wait till chance comes allong and produces us a hemoglobin molecule, you're out of your mind.

sorry to burst your bubble there david, those 'several hundereds of millions of pages' in evolutionary studies could just kiss ma butt.

i ain't gonna dirty ma hands in deciphering how we humans 'arose' from apes or how a mouse evolved into a cammel. 

that's kids imaginaiton. 

Islam is simple. Evolution is discombobulated.

tootles :)

Amal, sorry about the name mispelling. Nice long reply. Guys guys, I don't hate the quran, but Amal you seem to hate evolution because of the quran? Amino acids exist in space - they are strange attractors in chaos theory. Let systems with feedback run long enough and stable patterns emerge. Sure, the start of life is speculative, but only due to the lack of evidence produced for this period.

Tell me on thing. There are no fossils of homo sapiens that exist older than 130,000 years! Where did man come from 130,000 years ago? Allah? I think not!

Foggy 

I don't agree with the theory of evolution because it denies the reality of something so vivid and in-yo-face.  foggy, when you deny the existance of God, that's not simple deal.   that's belittleing the One who created you (i seek refuge in Allah from that.)

you think we practicing muslims would take this lightly?  and in the quran it states over and over again. 'in these are signs (of Allah) for people who think' 

it's a BIG deal dude.  don't be too proud.  one day you'll find yourself in a reckless situation and calling to God for help.  you'll never be able to refute the existance of Allah. 

"Let systems with feedback run long enought and stable patterns emerge" 

for something that has 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000  etc  chances of happening without divine intervention, it would take much much longer than 4 billion years.  It needs devine intervention.

if no fossil record shows of humans existing befor 130,000 years then that's a scientific fact.  in our minds that gives us a more or less idea of when Allah created mankind.  but why do we want to dwell on that?    it won't gain us nor lessend us in knowledge.  our role here on earth is to worship allah during our lifetime.  it's not to spend our whole life time figureing out where an organism is placed on a phylogenetic tree.  

you say 'due to the lack of evidence...'  fogtrik, its from the evidence that we got a clear messge:  0 CHANCE. 

what other evidence are you looking for? the question is whether you want to accept it or not.  OOOORR like what 'genious' evolutionary scientists do, produce an ad hox hypothesis and move on... 

Thank you but i choose to live a life to it's fullest through the guidance of Allah and His Messenger.

All i have to say is what the Quran alludes to 1400 years ago when the prophet was in a similar situation. 

Say, "O unbelievers.
I do not worship what you worship.
Nor do you worship what I worship.
Nor will I ever worship what you worship.
Nor will you ever worship what I worship.
To you, your religion; and to me, my religion."  (Quran ch 109)