July, 2006
"Mamas, Don't Let Your Babies Grow up to be Soldiers"

By Cindy Sheehan

As of today, the War Department lists 2544 as the number of unjustly murdered troops in Iraq. Dozens of innocent Iraqis are being killed due to the war crime every day. Over 80 Iraqis were killed in Baghdad alone on July 9th: dozens of people just in one city on one day who would be alive if not for BushCo.

I don't know what number Casey was. Nor do I care. I have seen people say 614, I have seen people say 714. It doesn't matter because Casey and the other 2543 were not numbers. They were living, breathing, loving, worthwhile and contributing members of society. They could pass drug tests (unlike their "commander-in-chief" at their ages) and they honorably volunteered to serve their country to defend America and our freedoms. What George Bush and the rest of the careless war profiteers have committed in Iraq is abuse and misuse and had nothing to do with defending America or protecting our freedoms. The lies are well documented and proven. The lies are written on my heart forever.

Between WWI and WWII, highly decorated, Marine Major General Smedley Butler wrote a short dissertation called http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm - War is a Racket . I wish to God I had read this before Casey enlisted because I believe that he would be alive today if only I had. The first two paragraphs succinctly define the entire booklet and the reason not to allow your child to fall into the hands of the military industrial war complex:

"War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives."

A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

In his treatise the General goes on to define the "damned" war profiteers of his day: the DuPont family, the steel companies, the leather companies, the t-shirt manufacturers, etc. The profits for these companies increased at a minimum ten fold in the WWI years and in retrospect even seem like healthy profits in 2006 dollars. He also complains about the 6000 buckboards for the Colonels, thousands of saddles for the Cavalry, and hundreds of airplane engines that were never used in the war. The waste of money and the waste of life in war are horrendous and inherently immoral---always!

The criminal tradition of the enormous profiteering that went on in WWI and all the other wars is going on today in the war crime of Iraq. The Halliburtons, Bechtels, Blackwater Secutities, KBR's, Standard Oils are raking in the billions at a clip that would make Barberry Coast pirate ship Captains' heads spin. The no-bid profiteers are cronies and/or former companies of the vice president and most of the Bush regime. I don't know how the blood-monied devils can look at their own children or grandchildren and not be ashamed and appalled that their insatiable greed killed someone else's flesh and blood!

Napoleon once said:

"All men are enamored of decorations.... they are positively enamored of them."

Casey was in the paramilitary Boy Scouts founded by Lord Baden Powell who was a militarist. I am not knocking the Boy Scouts because Casey was an Eagle Scout and he gained a lot of positive skills in the Scouts. But he was also taught how to be a good soldier: To pledge to do his duty to God and Country. Does that include marching reluctantly off to a war which one knows is wrong? Does that include putting "the mission" first above even ones own family and life no matter how disordered and corrupt the mission is? Boy Scouts earn decorations for their paramilitary uniforms and I know I sewed dozens on Casey's sash (I always complained that sewing should be their first mandatory badge earned so the Scout could do it himself). Then Casey "graduated" to soldier and started earning his "Man Scout" badges. I was handed his Bronze Star and Purple Heart at his funeral like I should be a proud mom being pinned with his Eagle Scout badge. The Man Scout Badges, Gen. Butler explains, were instituted so the military wouldn't have to pay the soldiers more money. How many Man Scout badges can make up for the needless, senseless and avoidable murder of your oldest child? There are not enough in the entire world.

In war correspondent Christopher Hedges book: War is the Force that Gives us Meaning he writes:

"The disillusionment comes later. Each generation again responds to war as innocents. Each generation discovers its own disillusionment-often at a terrible price."

The terrible price is that, once again, we forget that the war machine loves to greedily consume our children for the terrible profits that they so willingly and cheerfully reap. Hence the phrase: "Laughing all the way to the bank." How does it feel that the vultures are laughing at how gullible we are to so naively cough up our young? Previous generations of mothers have watched presidents and other cheerleaders for war and mayhem drag us into war after war and we mothers are unwilling and unknowing accomplices in our children's murders. War will finally have to stop when we mothers (and fathers and spouses, etc) stop allowing our leaders to march our children off to wars that are to feed the ravenous war monster: This hideous war monster counts on we families forgetting that the last war for revenue was fought against phantom enemies that can't be confined within borders. Whether the wars are covert or overt they are always being waged with our baby's blood.

Tragically, I don't know anyone, war supporter or not, who raised their children to be war criminals. I would hope that there are few people in our country who have hoped against hope that one day their son would grow up to rape Iraqi girls and kill innocent Iraqis in cold blood. The Mahmoudiya: and Haditha: incidents are horrible atrocities, but unfortunately, are not isolated incidents in the Iraq war crime. War breeds atrocities. I wish to God, and everything that anybody holds holy, that Mahmoudiya and Haditha were isolated incidents, but we know that they are not. When the neocons despicably spit out the blather that we need to "Stay the course," I wonder what that means? Rape and murder? That is a horrible course. I think we should change it now.

To be honest with ourselves and our children, instead of the flags and Man Scout badges that our soldiers decorate their uniforms with, they should have their suits covered with corporate logos like NASCAR drivers. A Halliburton patch here and an Exxon patch there. I also believe, like Gen. Butler said: during times of war, CEO's of war profiteers should only be allowed to earn as much as a common soldier.

Sounds fair to me and I believe war will end if the war profiteers, politicians and Generals were required to send their own children to fight for their ill-gotten gains before they sent ours.

Our nation forgot the lessons of Vietnam where not one person over the rank of Lieutenant was even tried for war crimes. It is incumbent upon this generation of war victims to make sure that this unspeakable episode does not repeat itself. The people responsible for sending our children to this war crime should not get off scot-free. BushCo should be the ones sent to federal prison for crimes against humanity and crimes against peace.

Holding our leaders accountable for unnecessary war and killing innocent people? It's a new concept, but I think one that just might work. Let's try it this time.

But more importantly, don't let your babies grow up to be soldiers.

Cindy Sheehan is the mother of Spc. Casey Sheehan, KIA in Iraq on 04/04/04. She is also the co-founder and President of http://www.gsfp.org/ - Gold Star Families for Peace and author of two books: http://www.koabooks.com/ - Not One More Mother's Child and http://www.citylights.com/CLpubRE.html#4545 - Dear President Bush . Cindy is currently on the 8th day of the http://www.troopshomefast.org/ - Troops Home Fast and writing from Italy where she will be awarded the highest honor that the Government of Tuscany can award a civilian: The Gold Pegasus for her international work for peace.

The cry of the mother who lost her son, the same cry for milleniums by so many mothers. I agree with her.

Excellent post Suleyman

I also strongly belive in Cindy Sheehan's message.

Let us pray for a better and peaceful world.

Kashif

Maryah I somewhat agree with Ops.

Cindy Sheehan actually prior to the war (or after?) attended a meeting actually which discussed the war which the media had caught on tape and did a story about her. when Bush mentioned the War and his purpowse the camera's in the interview zoomed in on her where she made no objections. I wish I knew the link to this but I'm sure if memory serves me right that this was on 20/20. Now I am sorry indeed for her loss but I do have to question her motives. Why didn't she make her plea in public? Why didn't she do this before or during the war? Why after her sons death she is all of a sudden publicly outspoken? These are questions I'd ask her

Maryah wrote:     Asalaamu Alaikum; Speaking German, dumkauf, I doubt it. Prefiero espanol. My son said no. They booted him out, fine. But he didn't like what he saw there. He will not kill fellow Muslims. BTW he was a gunners mate that belonged on a ship and was trained to maintain Aegis AND Tomahawk missiles. he was not supposed to be on shore duty.He was in the Navy LONG before The Bush bandits decided to have their little invasion party.  Have you ever held an half blown up remains of a baby outside the building you were trying to protect OPS...Have you been there OPS?..You talk big but I DOUBT IT! So how is your henhouse today? I am tired of men who choose to slander mothers,,YOU HAVE NO CLUE! What her circumstances are is of no concern, she probably has stronger feelings of remorse because she missed so much while he was growing up, AND NOW SHE CAN NEVER MAKE IT BACK UP TO HIM. You should be ashamed of yourself, condeming a person you do not know. May Allah (swt) be aware! He knows best, and you will stand before Him on the Last Day as we all will and make an accounting!

She made herself public on her own free will. No one forced her to go public like she did and the women had the chance to tell Bush her true feeling when he sat down with her before the big media fiasco but even she admits she didn't say anything against the war at that time. So once the anti-war folks got a hold of her she starts demanding another meeting with the President of the United States so she can tell him how against the war she is. Why did she wait to say anything until the media was involved? Why is she making money off of her son�s death with a book deal? Maybe it's so she can get her story out but do you think it's good to make money off of it? I know I haven't seen any documents from the military saying he objected to his service there or that he was trying to get discharged. To my knowledge Cindy has not shown any letters from him saying he disagreed or didn't want to be there and actually the rest of the family said he never complained about his service so why is she making such a big deal when the media gets involved? The way you scold me for judging someone else makes me laugh as your entire statement is doing the same about me. You don't know what I've seen or have done in my life so why are you assuming you do?

I've said it before but I will once more in case you missed it, PEOPLE ENLIST ON THIER OWN FREE WILL. Time in the military is not obligatory in America so when you sign the dotted line you better be prepared to fulfill the contract. On the contrary to popular belief time in the service is not a scholarship program and if that is what you are using it for then too bad if you get called up. It's in the contract that you can be called for active duty and your time in the service can be extended so if you don't read it and understand before you sign up then that is your own fault. 

ops154 wrote: Maryah wrote:     Asalaamu Alaikum; Speaking German, dumkauf, I doubt it. Prefiero espanol. My son said no. They booted him out, fine. But he didn't like what he saw there. He will not kill fellow Muslims. BTW he was a gunners mate that belonged on a ship and was trained to maintain Aegis AND Tomahawk missiles. he was not supposed to be on shore duty.He was in the Navy LONG before The Bush bandits decided to have their little invasion party.  Have you ever held an half blown up remains of a baby outside the building you were trying to protect OPS...Have you been there OPS?..You talk big but I DOUBT IT! So how is your henhouse today? I am tired of men who choose to slander mothers,,YOU HAVE NO CLUE! What her circumstances are is of no concern, she probably has stronger feelings of remorse because she missed so much while he was growing up, AND NOW SHE CAN NEVER MAKE IT BACK UP TO HIM. You should be ashamed of yourself, condeming a person you do not know. May Allah (swt) be aware! He knows best, and you will stand before Him on the Last Day as we all will and make an accounting!     She made herself public on her own free will. No one forced her to go public like she did and the women had the chance to tell Bush her true feeling when he sat down with her before the big media fiasco but even she admits she didn't say anything against the war at that time. So once the anti-war folks got a hold of her she starts demanding another meeting with the President of the United States so she can tell him how against the war she is. Why did she wait to say anything until the media was involved? Why is she making money off of her son�s death with a book deal? Maybe it's so she can get her story out but do you think it's good to make money off of it? I know I haven't seen any documents from the military saying he objected to his service there or that he was trying to get discharged. To my knowledge Cindy has not shown any letters from him saying he disagreed or didn't want to be there and actually the rest of the family said he never complained about his service so why is she making such a big deal when the media gets involved? The way you scold me for judging someone else makes me laugh as your entire statement is doing the same about me. You don't know what I've seen or have done in my life so why are you assuming you do? I've said it before but I will once more in case you missed it, PEOPLE ENLIST ON THIER OWN FREE WILL. Time in the military is not obligatory in America so when you sign the dotted line you better be prepared to fulfill the contract. On the contrary to popular belief time in the service is not a scholarship program and if that is what you are using it for then too bad if you get called up. It's in the contract that you can be called for active duty and your time in the service can be extended so if you don't read it and understand before you sign up then that is your own fault.

Bismillah,

The DEVIL writes in small print.

Allah, The All-Forgiving, has a clear message.  Repent and he will forgive you.  It's not hard; try it.  His message is clear and easy to understand:  Belief in His Power and Glory and Mercy.

Salaamu Alaykum

Norfolkenwaypal:

Let's try a little thought experiment, shall we?  Someone tells you that someone else is a bad guy, evil, has evil things that he plans to use against you ("Someone" knows this is true because he gave them to him). Oppresses his people who would love to have a life just like your own. He convinces you that everything you hold dear could be destroyed if you don't go to get him, find his evil things, show to the world that you now have freed decent human beings and left them living in "freedom": that you had a right, no, an obligation to do that as the representative of the greatest country the world has ever known.  And that once you've done it, you can come home to everyone's praise, and most importantly with the joy of the people you went to free ringing in your ears.

Now lets fast forward a few years. You are still there.  You have seen normal human beings turned into hating, killing machines with no more understanding of the people they see everyday than they have love. They have become that way because of the messages they hear, day after, hot, hot day. You are there to "do a job" but more and more you wonder just what that has to do with you.  They promised you glory. All you see is gore. You see your friends die, hideously.  It drives some of the others mad. You wonder how long you will hold on to your own sanity.  You see very little of the young highschool grad you once were. You have become hardened.  You have had no choice. Ity is that or be swallowed up by your own conscience. You see women and children blown to pieces.  You can't remember when you slept without nightmares, and then you wake up to find they are true. You want to go home: to your farm, to your little dusty town, to your city block, to your wife, your girl, your kids, your mom.

This is the reality for the troops in Iraq, and no doubt far far worse.

You message above is not only unsympathetic, but stupidly vaccuous.  You cannot possibly imagine the pain of a mother who knows that her son's death was brought about by a patriotic obscenity. A joke. A lie.

Cassandra wrote: Norfolkenwaypal: Let's try a little thought experiment, shall we?  Someone tells you that someone else is a bad guy, evil, has evil things that he plans to use against you ("Someone" knows this is true because he gave them to him). Oppresses his people who would love to have a life just like your own. He convinces you that everything you hold dear could be destroyed if you don't go to get him, find his evil things, show to the world that you now have freed decent human beings and left them living in "freedom": that you had a right, no, an obligation to do that as the representative of the greatest country the world has ever known.  And that once you've done it, you can come home to everyone's praise, and most importantly with the joy of the people you went to free ringing in your ears. Now lets fast forward a few years. You are still there.  You have seen normal human beings turned into hating, killing machines with no more understanding of the people they see everyday than they have love. They have become that way because of the messages they hear, day after, hot, hot day. You are there to "do a job" but more and more you wonder just what that has to do with you.  They promised you glory. All you see is gore. You see your friends die, hideously.  It drives some of the others mad. You wonder how long you will hold on to your own sanity.  You see very little of the young highschool grad you once were. You have become hardened.  You have had no choice. Ity is that or be swallowed up by your own conscience. You see women and children blown to pieces.  You can't remember when you slept without nightmares, and then you wake up to find they are true. You want to go home: to your farm, to your little dusty town, to your city block, to your wife, your girl, your kids, your mom. This is the reality for the troops in Iraq, and no doubt far far worse. You message above is not only unsympathetic, but stupidly vaccuous.  You cannot possibly imagine the pain of a mother who knows that her son's death was brought about by a patriotic obscenity. A joke. A lie.

It would be terrible to go through what you have said above but one thing I think would make it worse is finding out your mother is making money off of your death. That would bother me more than any of the lies I was told before I went. My own mother profiting from my death, yeah I feel real bad for her. You keep supporting her and make sure you buy a couple copies of her book. She needs the money since the rest of her family disagreed with what she said and has apparently disowned her.

Cassandra wrote: Norfolkenwaypal: Let's try a little thought experiment, shall we?  Someone tells you that someone else is a bad guy, evil, has evil things that he plans to use against you ("Someone" knows this is true because he gave them to him). Oppresses his people who would love to have a life just like your own. He convinces you that everything you hold dear could be destroyed if you don't go to get him, find his evil things, show to the world that you now have freed decent human beings and left them living in "freedom": that you had a right, no, an obligation to do that as the representative of the greatest country the world has ever known.  And that once you've done it, you can come home to everyone's praise, and most importantly with the joy of the people you went to free ringing in your ears. Now lets fast forward a few years. You are still there.  You have seen normal human beings turned into hating, killing machines with no more understanding of the people they see everyday than they have love. They have become that way because of the messages they hear, day after, hot, hot day. You are there to "do a job" but more and more you wonder just what that has to do with you.  They promised you glory. All you see is gore. You see your friends die, hideously.  It drives some of the others mad. You wonder how long you will hold on to your own sanity.  You see very little of the young highschool grad you once were. You have become hardened.  You have had no choice. Ity is that or be swallowed up by your own conscience. You see women and children blown to pieces.  You can't remember when you slept without nightmares, and then you wake up to find they are true. You want to go home: to your farm, to your little dusty town, to your city block, to your wife, your girl, your kids, your mom. This is the reality for the troops in Iraq, and no doubt far far worse. You message above is not only unsympathetic, but stupidly vaccuous.  You cannot possibly imagine the pain of a mother who knows that her son's death was brought about by a patriotic obscenity. A joke. A lie.

Bismillah,

Thanks Cassandra.

Salaamu Alaykum

I have studied Cindy Sheehan very intensely.  At the most she is seriously mentally disturbed, and at the least she is an extremely polished passive/aggressive who is on a mission of publicity for HERSELF.

She did not raise her son.  I have seen his grave.  There is no marker on it and NO flowers.  Unless they have just recently been placed there.)  Her son chose to join the military to to serve two tours in the Middle East.  She is a disgrace to the memory of her son.  This is not about her "lost son".  It's about HER.  She thrives on the publicity and attention this "cause" has bestowed upon her.  Even her former Hollywood buddies are quickly abandoning her, as they are seeing that she is not quite "normal".   And I don't mean that she is not normal because she is grieving the loss of the son who didn't live with her.....she is not normal because she has some very significant mentally abnormal symptoms.

Everyone should read EVERYTHING about her, read both sides of the coin.  I feel extremely sad for her son and for all the young people who die in battle.  But, remember, he was an adult, and he desired and chose on his own accord to enlist in the military and to serve two terms in the Middle East for his country which he loved.   Those are the facts.  You can read them if you can to study both sides on the internet....especially in scholarly articles, which offer truthful, unbiased opinions of her actions.

God's Peace.

Maryah no offense but you need to re-evaluate the concept of slander.....first off I did not slander Cindy Sheehand I merely called her position questionable. Saying that she is using the death of her son in the expense of her campaign is not slander neither against her nor her son. Although she has many valid points for why we shouldn't have gone to war she was also seen on T.V in the same meeting about the War in Iraq and never raised a hand to question bush...yes I find her posiiton questionable

Bismillah,

Patty, how can you know what Cindy feels?  You really can't.

Salaamu Alaykum

I think that we are making a mistake by focussing on one individual.  None of us can know her reality.  What we should be focusing on is the young men and women who are serving in Iraq, from whichever country, and think about what their experiences are doing to blight them, psychologically.  Vietnam vets, many, many of them, never had a chance at a "normal" life once they came home. The same is true of the troops there now.  No-one thought that after so many years, there would still be a vast and increasing military presence in Iraq in 2006: liberate, find, consolidate, get out...and support. Wasn't that the idea?  Nothing to do with vast oil reserves, no Sir!

In the meantime, young people, some with very little other hope for the future are falling prey to propaganda: kids so indoctrinated by America's might and right, that they could never believe that perhaps, just perhaps, their country might have another motive which has nothing whatsoever to do with them as human beings, and even less to do with the people they supposedly went to save!

 Sometimes the only way you can learn to truly begin to question America's agenda (and the U.K. which wants so little to do with Europe than it refuses even to use its currency) is to get out of the country, and stay out for a while.

Propaganda, unfortunately, creates its own reality.  It tells you the terms.  What do you have left to argue with?

herjihad wrote: Bismillah, Patty, how can you know what Cindy feels?  You really can't. Salaamu Alaykum

Dear Herjihad,

No, I cannot know what Cindy feels.  Neither can you.  All we have to really go on are her actions, which are shown quite often in the news, as SHE seeks out the media for publicity.  I do know that (God forbid) if I lost a child, my child would have a headstone and flowers on their grave, as nearly every deceased child I have ever known has had.  I would not be clamoring for attention from the media from Hollywood stars, nor would I be stating repeatedly that "I am on a fast", and we must all "fast" for peace".....when picture after picture shows me to be heavier than ever.  She has been caught on camera having quite a nice time with many "influential people".  Many books/articles have been written concerning her mental status, which is not normal.  She is called narsissistic, and I do believe that is one of her diagnoses.  This woman has some mental issues which were present long before the death of her son.  She is now able to pursue them to her advantage BECAUSE of his death, and I find this unthinkable behavior for any mother.  This is only my opinion after much research, Herjihad. At first, when she first came into the "spotlight", I too felt sorry for her....but I've changed my opinion.

God's Peace!

"Propaganda, unfortunately, creates its own reality.  It tells you the terms.  What do you have left to argue with?"

And unfortunately, propaganda is found EVERYWHERE.  Who's propaganda are you listening to?  Who's propaganda are you believing?  Why?  Who is telling the real, unbiased truth?  Can you prove any of it?  I have some real questions in this regard.

God's Peace,

Patty, I do not deny that propaganda is to be found everywhere.  My point, I think is that we have to recognise that it may be when it is in our own backyard, that we fail to recognise it as such.

I have seven years of philosophical training.  I can sift through BS as well as anyone else, maybe better than some. I am no-body's fool.  I come to the topic with an open mind, but, one which has been aware that we are rarely ever given the truth, if ever, and the chances of being kept in the dark seem to increase proportionately to the degree of financial gain to be expected.

(oh, and BTW: my mother doesn't have a headstone.  I chose a silver birch tree. It is now the tallest one in the little woodland burial site where "she" lies: part of a growing wood, with wildflowers, rabbits, sheep:  I am not there, I do not sleep, remember.)

Patty,

You seem to think that not putting flowers on graves is some kind of terrible thing, but, dear, that is only from your perspective.

You might be interested to know that Muslims do not decorate graves, most don't even use headstones. 

You might like to read a bit about this here:

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=701&CATE=115 - http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=701&C ATE=115

Hope this helps show you another perspective about graves.

Peace, ummziba.

It is amazing how when someone comes out to call attention to our behavior we act in a defensive manner? We tend to turn around and "put down" the person. She is challenging the status quo. Never a good thing.

I am grateful that she has spoken out. Too many people are afraid. Whether or not she is "perfect" and meets every person's criteria she at least found a conscious. She is not a politician. What she did or not do before is irrelevant. We all should all be allowed to grow and change.  Sometimes it takes something like the loss of a loved one to "wake up."

We all also grieve very differently. No, one way is the answer. My parents buried three still-born babies and never did visit the graves. They were in their hearts and with the Divine.  

Yes, she may seek out publicity.. but is that bad to try and save lives?

Even if she does have �mental health issues� should that then make her unworthy of speaking?   

On another note: When my father passed away he wished to have his body donated to science. Those arrangements were made. About a year later his remains were buried. We do not know where. As my mother said, he is in our hearts and that is most important.

Patty wrote: I have studied Cindy Sheehan very intensely.  At the most she is seriously mentally disturbed, and at the least she is an extremely polished passive/aggressive who is on a mission of publicity for HERSELF.

Which Crab is not, look at the POTUS. I think you are acting your personality of the Ram, and being too aggressive yourself on accusing a Crab mom on how to act on loss of loved one. Why would you study Cindy very intensely. What is your vested interest anyway unless you are a typical war mongering Aries yourself and can�t reconcile with her POV. Now she has a mission, so let it be.

Patty wrote: She did not raise her son.

Not true.

You don�t really believe in this false urban legend, do you?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/sheehan.asp

Patty wrote: I have seen his grave.  There is no marker on it and NO flowers.  Unless they have just recently been placed there.)

I don�t believe that, if you did travel clear across country to check on the gravesite and flowers.

 For Crab Moms the life is more valuable than stones. I know quite a few crabs, How many do you ? Anyways I don't see it a valid issue.

Patty wrote: She is a disgrace to the memory of her son.  This is not about her "lost son".  It's about HER.  She thrives on the publicity and attention this "cause" has bestowed upon her.

I see you are one heck of a judgmental Catholic-MG!!! You are acting true to your sign of Ram, charging over the poor Cancer Mom over the loss of her son. She can not be like you Mrs Ram, they live on feelings. I have a Cancer child and also an Aries child. And I see their interaction on daily basis. I know so Don�t pass the judgment unless you want to be judged. 

Patty wrote: I do know that (God forbid) if I lost a child, my child would have a headstone and flowers on their grave, as nearly every deceased child I have ever known has had.  I would not be clamoring for attention from the media from Hollywood stars, nor would I be stating repeatedly that "I am on a fast", and we must all "fast" for peace".....when picture after picture shows me to be heavier than ever.

Again judgmental and don�t be too certain about anything, the Hollywood is in Jewish country, why would they take up her cause against the neo cons?

Patty wrote: And I don't mean that she is not normal because she is grieving the loss of the son who didn't live with her.....she is not normal because she has some very significant mentally abnormal symptoms

Even if you were a MD Psychiatrist, this is harsh diagnosis on remote without any lab  or examination to level on Cindy. Again living with her thing--man the ram doesn't give up--this is such trivial issue as compared to not seeing him alive or her grand kids in her old age ever again which is the significant matter.

Issue is still valid this whole Iraq thing is based on lies, lies and lies.

You lie is one thing, the POTUS lies is a disaster for the enlisted and the weekend warriors who have assumed room temperature bcs they were so brain washed by the propaganda that with american hi tech fire power they are perfectly safe in their humvies and no raghead with fanbelt around his head could touch them. And the worlds largest oil field will belong to the good old USA/UK/neocons/ the oil companies. And it didn't turnout that way-- rest is history.

Hanan wrote: http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/inequal/2003/0115military.htm - By now thousands of United States of America soldiers and their families are on United States of America welfare! How shameful is THAT! I become disgusted every time I see a �Support the Troops� ribbon, knowing that Americans DO NOT support their troops. These ribbons are a sham and merely an excuse to not have to do anything else. Lounging on the couch with a Mega-Whopper and a Diet Coke on one's protruding stomach and watching soap operas, idiotic hollywood trash, pink-colored perfect-family flicks, admiring Bubya �Mission Accomplished� Bush on a battleship or US soldiers in Elvis-songs blasting Humvees shooting at civilian Iraqis' cars on Baghdad roads, does not constitute support for the troops.

Yep everyone I knew joined the military for the money. Anyways after your little private message to me, that I have yet to figure out why you sent it it, I really don't care about your opinion but I did want to point out one thing. That video you talking about was contractors who are NOT part of the military.

I become disgusted anytime a muslim sticks up for Hizbulla, Hamas or anyone of the several terrorists groups knowing you will never go join them in their fight. You post on a message board like you are doing something constructive and then you feel you never have to do anything else for the cause.

Hanan wrote: Thank you, Duende, I'll check out the bookstore and see if they have it. Did you see the article on AlterNet http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/34122/ - http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/34122/ regarding this book. There are some interesting remarks from average American citizens at the end of the article, in the �Comments� section. I find myself guilty, at times, for doubting the common sense of �the man on the street,� but then those type of comments give me hope again. And here is a surprising bit of news. Weapons of Mass Destruction Discovered Here: Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and North Dakota 8.2.2006 -- On August 6, 1945, the United States dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima. Three days later, the US dropped another atomic bomb on Nagasaki. These nuclear weapons killed over 100,000 people, almost all civilians, and injured many tens of thousands more. Fr. Carl Kabat, 72, Greg Boertje-Obed, 51, and Michael Walli, 57, sit in jail in North Dakota awaiting a federal criminal trial because of weapons of mass destruction and because of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I visited them last week. A friendly cab driver in Bismarck told me "If North Dakota seceded from the Union, we would be the world's third most-powerful nuclear state." TruthOut http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/080206B.shtml - http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/080206B.shtml

Gee thanks for the history lesson. I don't think anyone knew that America dropped those bombs.

Mamas don�t....  Let your bables grow up to be Cowboys!

They might end up looking like the Tumbling Texas Tumbleweed!

Maryah wrote: Mamas don�t....  Let your bables grow up to be Cowboys! They might end up looking like the Tumbling Texas Tumbleweed!

I do love blue but since you used it I will have to opt for green.  I was waiting for someone to qote Waylon Jennings and the gang.

I would have like to read everyone's post but they are so long, I would be here all day. So I will just give my perspective.

There are wars that are just and wars that are not. Every war will have it's Cindy Sheehan or Jane Fonda.  Sometimes people just want to try and make a difference. She does have a right to do what she does and that's what makes this a free country. If we didn't have people like Cindy Sheehan then the people that we fight against would probably think that all Americans are strongly with their government and approve whole heartedly in this war and they do not. However some people either just need the attention or she needs to express her pain in this way. If the media walked away from that story it would be like it didn't exist. But media attention gives things a lot of value. Many mothers have lost sons and are satisfied with being proud that they died doing what they chose to do.

I am proud to say my dad served in WWII as a medic as he refused to carry a gun. I have yet to figure out why the medics didn't carry them but I guess they were suppose to be off limits.  My dad never spoke much about the war.  I know that it affected him deeply. He hurt inside and kept it inside and we know that is not a good thing.  My dad grew up believeing that men never cry or show emmotion.  I am very proud of my dad and his contribution to WWII.  He is no longer with me.  I also can not imagine what this world would be like if Hitler would have accomplished all he set out to accomplish.  He was a sick and demented man.  Thank God we have men who are willing to die for their county.  It is possible to support the soldiers without supporting this wicked war.

Duende wrote: Hanan, I'm so glad you came to this forum! Another passionate voice of reason. "He speaks about how the war in Iraq is not using up the US's 'finest' (as GW Bush would have us believe) but more like the US's dregs who have very little choice but to enlist in an army which promises them food and shelter, education etc., and who are energetically recruited from the places they frequent by officers who understand precisely the kind of 'cannon fodder' they're getting.

Oh my God.  Don't you find this just sickening? The colleges should have people doing as much recruiting as the military.  We should start giving away education so our poorest can have the same opportunity as the rich boys and girls. It makes me so angry that there is not more rich "cannon fodder".  It disgust me to think that our own president has so little military experience.  He can't even talk, how can he lead?