Assalamu Alaikum:

I've read this a million times... attributed to Sheikh Hamza Yusuf..

"Three of the four Sunni schools consider domestic chores outside the scope of a woman's legal responsibilities toward her husband. Contrast that with US polls showing that working women still do 80% of domestic chores"

But I can't find it anywhere else.  Does anybody know specifically which schools say what on this topic?? Any references???

Thanks.

Peace.

When a Welsh resistance leader was captured and brought before the emperor in Rome, he said: "Because you desire to conquer the world, it does not necessarily follow that the world desires to be conquered by you." Today one could offer an echo of this sentiment to western liberals: "Because you wish your values to prevail throughout the world, it does not always follow that the world wishes to adopt them." The imperial voice is based on ignorance of the rich traditions of other civilisations, and on an undue optimism about what the west is doing to the world politically, economically and environmentally.

The entrenched beliefs many westerners profess about Islam often reveal more about the west than they do about Islam or Muslims. The Ottomans were history's longest-lasting major dynasty; their durability must have had some relation to their ability to rule a multi-faith empire at a time when Europe was busily hanging, drawing and quartering different varieties of Christian believer.

Today Islam is said to be less, not more, tolerant than the west, and we need to ask which, precisely, are the "western" values with which Islam is so incompatible? Some believe Islam's attitude towards women is the source of the Muslim "problem". Westerners need to look to their own attitudes here and recognise that only very recently have patriarchal structures begun to erode in the west.

The Islamic tradition does show some areas of apparent incompatibility with the goals of women in the west, and Muslims have a long way to go in their attitudes towards women. But blaming the religion is again to express an ignorance both of the religion and of the historical struggle for equality of women in Muslim societies.

A careful reading of modern female theologians of Islam would cause western women to be impressed by legal injunctions more than 1,000 years old that, for instance, grant women legal rights to domestic help at the expense of their husbands. Three of the four Sunni schools consider domestic chores outside the scope of a woman's legal responsibilities toward her husband. Contrast that with US polls showing that working women still do 80% of domestic chores.

Westerners, in their advocacy of global conformism, often speak of "progress" and the rejection of the not-too-distant feudal past, and are less likely to reveal their unease about corporate hegemony and the real human implications of globalisation.

Neither are the missionaries of western values willing to consider why Europe, the heart of the west, should have generated two world wars which killed more civilians than all the wars of the previous 20 centuries. As Muslims point out, we are asked to call them "world wars" despite their reality as western wars, which targeted civilians with weapons of mass destruction at a time when Islam was largely at peace.

We Muslims are unpersuaded by many triumphalist claims made for the west, but are happy with its core values. As a westerner, the child of civil rights and anti-war activists, I embraced Islam not in abandonment of my core values, drawn almost entirely from the progressive tradition, but as an affirmation of them. I have since studied Islamic law for 10 years with traditionally trained scholars, and while some particulars in medieval legal texts have troubled me, never have the universals come into conflict with anything my progressive Californian mother taught me. Instead, I have marvelled at how most of what western society claims as its own highest ideals are deeply rooted in Islamic tradition.

The chauvinism apparent among some westerners is typically triggered by Islamic extremism. Few take the trouble to notice that mainstream Islam dislikes the extremists as much as the west does. What I fear is that an excuse has been provided to supply some westerners with a replacement for their older habit of anti-semitism. The shift is not such a difficult one. Arabs, after all, are semites, and the Arabian prophet's teaching is closer in its theology and law to Judaism than it is to Christianity. We Muslims in the west, like Jews before us, grapple with the same issues that Jews of the past did: integration or isolation, tradition or reform, intermarriage or intra-marriage.

Muslims who yearn for an ideal Islamic state are in some ways reflecting the old aspirations of the Diaspora Jews for a homeland where they would be free to be different. Muslims, like Jews, often dress differently; we cannot eat some of the food of the host countries. Like the Jews of the past, we are now seen as parasites on the social body, burdened with a uniform and unreformable law, contributing little, scheming in ghettoes, and obscurely indifferent to personal hygiene.

Cartoons of Arabs seem little different to the caricatures of Jews in German newspapers of the Nazi period. In the 1930s, such images ensured that few found the courage to speak out about the possible consequences of such a demonisation, just as few today are really thinking about the anti-Muslim rhetoric of the extreme-right parties across Europe. Muslims in general, and Arabs especially, have become the new "other".

When I met President Bush last year, I gave him two books. One was The Essential Koran, translated by Thomas Cleary. The second was another translation by Cleary, Thunder in the Sky: Secrets of the Acquisition and Use of Power. Written by an ancient Chinese sage, it reflects the universal values of another great people.

I did this because, as an American, rooted in the best of western tradition, and a Muslim convert who finds much of profundity in Chinese philosophy, I believe the "Huntington thesis" that these three great civilisations must inevitably clash is a lie. Each civilisation speaks with many voices; the best of them find much in common. Not only can our civilisations co-exist in our respective parts of the world, they can co-exist in the individual heart, as they do in mine. We can enrich each other if we choose to embrace our essential humanity; we can destroy the world if we choose to stress our differences.

umsami wrote: Assalamu Alaikum: I've read this a million times... attributed to Sheikh Hamza Yusuf.. "Three of the four Sunni schools consider domestic chores outside the scope of a woman's legal responsibilities toward her husband. Contrast that with US polls showing that working women still do 80% of domestic chores" But I can't find it anywhere else.  Does anybody know specifically which schools say what on this topic?? Any references??? Thanks. Peace.

Bismillah,

In Sahih Muslim the duties of the wife are stated as protecting his property and her chastity.  Some scholars take this as implying that no house work is required by her, but is a mercy from her to her husband.

Do a search for that.  ISA you will find what you are looking for.

Peace

Thanks everybody.  I'd really love to find something that says the Hanafi madhab say this... Imam Malik said that... blah blah blah.  Specific. 

I've tried using the ahadith from Muslim, but I was told I was wrong... that was incomplete.  Sigh.

ak_m_f wrote: it depends more on culture rather then religion

religion should be given more priority

culture depends on religion

ak_m_f wrote: it depends more on culture rather then religion

I know... but so often I hear people tell me that this is Islam.. that a woman is suppose to cook, clean, etc.  And I keep trying to tell them that it is not part of her duties or her husband's rights. 

ak_m_f wrote: salman_s wrote: culture depends on religion so you are saying that change religion according to culture?

no

i m saying change culture according 2 religion

a muslim should not adopt western culture and cultures of other religions, a muslim is different, he should follow the islamic culture - the culture prescribed by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and a muslim should follow the sunnats of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

Allah says in the Qur'an 'O ye who believe! Obey Allah and obey the messenger (Prophet Muhammad) !'

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

i think both of you should come clear to all members cos your secret is sort of out, you do bicker like sibings and more like twins really

wassalam

Regardless of personal opinion these are things that should be agreed upon and discussed before any marraige. My friends sister was talking to a really nice guy and his sister and his mother for a possible engagement. She was really impressed at how the guy had bought nice cars for his mom and sis and really cared for him. She was ready to move forward but with her sisters urging she asked him about how he would help around the house or with the kids. His reply was" I don't even get my own glass of water from the kitchen" Meaning his mom and sister waited on him hand and foot. That was the end of that, she no longer considered him and told him she had no interest in marrying someone who thinks they are the prince of the house and wants 3 women running around waiting on him. Some men are really lazy ladies and have been totally spoiled and ruined by thier mothers, so BE CAREFUL!!!!

Bismillah,

Um-Sami, it seems that you are having a personal issue with this.  Just don't wait on him hand and foot and he'll remember where the water faucet is.

If he does't put the clothing in the basket,wash everybody's but his.  Try not to take responsibility for his lack of it.  It only gets worse with time.

Consider that if he is doing the shopping, that is a big help.  Figure out things that you don't want to do that he is willing to do and vice-versa and measure things out that way.

Peace

I agree with AK I thinki its more cultural than religious......

I wouldn't mind doing half the chores and in fact, I would LOVE to take care of my woman while she is resting after a day's work....However this is go both ways. The best friend  of a husband is his wife and it should be that way vice versa....

Sorry to tell you Salman that unfortunately Islam is sometimes practiced hand and hand with culture. You say that a Westerner Muslim should not adopt western tradition with Islam however people do. What about Arab culture with Islamic tradition? Or Indian or Pakistani?

ak_m_f wrote: salman_s wrote: he should follow the islamic culture - the culture Last time I heard was that Islam was religion

Islam is the true religion, we must follow the culture as prescribed by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

Allah says in the Qur'an in several places 'O ye who believe ! Obey Allah and obey the messenger (Prophet Muhammad) !'

Israfil wrote: Sorry to tell you Salman that unfortunately Islam is sometimes practiced hand and hand with culture. You say that a Westerner Muslim should not adopt western tradition with Islam however people do. What about Arab culture with Islamic tradition? Or Indian or Pakistani?

israfil, islamic culture does not have divisions, as you are saying western islamic culture, arab islamic culture, indian islamic culture, pakistani islamic culture and so on....

there is only one islamic culture and that is the culture prescribed by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

ak_m_f wrote: salman_s wrote: i m saying change culture according 2 religion a muslim should not adopt western culture and cultures of other religions, a muslim is different, he should follow the islamic culture - the culture prescribed by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and a muslim should follow the sunnats of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) Allah says in the Qur'an 'O ye who believe! Obey Allah and obey the messenger (Prophet Muhammad) !'   Woman is equal to man in bearing personal and common responsibilities and in receiving rewards for her deeds. She is acknowledged as an independent personality, in possession of human qualities and worthy of spiritual aspirations. Her human nature is neither inferior to nor deviant from that of man. Both are members of one another. Allah Almighty says: (And their Lord hath heard them (and He saith): Lo! I suffer not the work of any worker, male or female, to be lost. Ye proceed one from another�) (Aal `Imran 3: 195) Also historical records show that women participated in public life with the early Muslims, especially in times of emergencies. Women used to accompany the Muslim armies engaged in battles to nurse the wounded, prepare supplies, serve the warriors, and so on. They were not shut behind iron bars or considered worthless creatures and deprived of souls.

ak man! where did i say women should not be given freedom? women should be given freedom

stick to the topic man.....here we are talking about islamic culture

when u don't have anything to reply ak_m_f or you find yourself stumped, you stray away from the topic !

ak_m_f wrote: salman_s wrote: ak man! where did i say women should not be given freedom? women should be given freedom stick to the topic man.....here we are talking about islamic culture when u don't have anything to reply ak_m_f or you find yourself stumped, you stray away from the topic !   Sorry to disappoint you, Salman; we are discussing about Chores. you are welcome to open another thread.

it was you ak_m_f who started discussing about culture and religion. see for yourself what u wrote -

ak_m_f wrote: it depends more on culture than religion

ak_m_f wrote: so u mean to say change religion according to culture?

now if u want ak_m_f u may open a new thread concerning islamic culture if u want to

Assalamu Alaikum:

Does anybody know the sources for the different madhabs on this??? Anybody??? 

Merci!

Peace.

Salman, Akm didn't stray from the topic, he just made a statement and that was it, until you piped up about it .

The second point you pointed that akm was straying, he was questioning/clearing up his understanding of what you said, I understood it the same way akm read it. And I probably would have said the same question  

Now both of you stop bricking who did what otherwise you will stray from the topic of chores

ak_m_f wrote: Angel are you runnin for moderatorship?

lol! No