Several prophecies in the Bible point to the fact that the tribe of Dan will produce the Antichrist.  In the context of these prophecies - To suggest that the Antichrist will be a Jew (as confirmed by Rev. Pat Robertson in 2002) is likely to incur accusations of "anti-Semitism" from those who would like to conceal this fact. However, the truth stands out in this study.

http://www.watch.pair.com/dan.html - http://www.watch.pair.com/dan.html

Islamic view is not totally identical � but has several similarities.

DavidC wrote: Please don't hold up Pat Robertson as a fount of Christian knowledge. It makes the rest of us Christians a bit queasy . DavidC

That's funny! When he attended ADL meeting after quoting his Bible - he said - I appologize to all Jews for making those stupid remarks. I should have know better - ADL hailed him as a great Christian scholar.

asalamu alikum,

i am not sure whether the concept of 'dajjal' (i.e. antichrist) is meant to be taken literally.

muhammad asad for instance gave a very interesting and rather convincing interpretation of the 'dajjal' [meaning "the deceptive one, the glittering"] as 'western materialism' and modern technological civilzation...taking it to be God.

one example: muhammad (pbuh) said that the 'dajjal' would be 'one-eyed' (blind on his left eye): looks only on one side of life-material progress- and is 'blind to' the spritual side.

sorry, i gotta go now, but would be happy to discuss further if anyone is interested....

salam

mary wrote: ....i am not sure whether the concept of 'dajjal' (i.e. antichrist) is meant to be taken literally.....

Judaism, Christianity and Islam - all have some 'concept' of Anti-Christ (Dajjal). So it must be taken seriously whether one like it or not.

Jews and Christians believe that Anti-Christ arrival and plunder will be followed by the 'Messiah' (first time appearance for Jews; second time for Christians), who will establish the 'Kingdom of God'. However, Jews believe that Anti-Christ would be one the Popes - while Jews believe that he will be a Jewish barbaric ruler.

What Muhammad Assad (a Jew convert) said - was a symbolic statement - the same way Sayyid Qutb (ra) called the world Jahliyyia.

asalamu alikum rehmat,

i agree with you when you say that the question of the 'dajjal' has to be taken seriously, especially when prophet muhammad (pbuh) is reproted to have said, that the dajjal will be the greatest of all 'tests' mankind enountered between the time of Adam (pbuh) and The Last Day.

interpreting the hadiths on the dajjal allegorically, instead of literally, seems to be more plausible to me.

have you read the hadith, which reported muhammad (pbuh) as having said that despite him (pbuh) having explained  the 'appearance' and 'action' of the dajjal, he (pbuh) is still worried that we (the muslims) did still not understand?

if we interpret the 'actions' and 'appearances' of the dajjal allegorically, then today's state of the world would pretty much fit muhammads' (pbuh) description of the times of the dajjal (which muhammad asad, quite plausibly interprets to be modern technological civilization):

'his' 'parents' are supposed to be 'ugly'. indeed, the industrial revolution, the 'parent' of modern technological civilization was ugly, socially and economically. (please tell me if you would like more detail).

the 'dajjal' is 'one-eyed', i.e. only concerned with material progress, totally disregarding the spiritual sphere of life. we are reminded by muhammad (pbuh) howerver, that God is not one-eyed, i.e. His guidance provides both for man's physical as well as spiritual needs.

people will take 'him' to be God, i.e. seeing in modern technology the 'cure' for potentially all of man's ill...that is regarding it as 'all-powerful', etc.

it will affect every human being living at that time. modern technological civilization indeed does affect everyone, as it were.

i will give some more illustrations, insh'Allah, but i need to leave now.

Dajjal - Myth & Reality

Shams Zaman Pakistan

mailto:[email protected] - [email protected]

DavidC wrote: A not so well documented collection. [url]http://www.geocities.com/syed_fawad/islam/read.html[/url}

'Clicked'....no response!

Gog & Magog are the descendents of those living in Europe. Their statues are all over Europe as folk heroes.

The Prophets (pbuh) prophecy of his followers after him being followers of Dajjal has been fulfilled. The whole world now follows Europeans and their baby nations.

In the Bible there is a Mystery Babylon. This baby of Lon-don is America from which the Anti-Christ will rise.

Anti means; opposite, carbon copy

If you look at the images of Jesus we were given, he looks white. This is a carbon copy of the description of a very black man with nappy lamb's wool for hair. This is the Anti-Christ that the whole Christian world believes in.

No offense intended.

blond wrote: ....If you look at the images of Jesus we were given, he looks white. This is a carbon copy of the description of a very black man with nappy lamb's wool for hair. This is the Anti-Christ that the whole Christian world believes in.....

Oops!

Essa (Christ) was born in Nazareth (Palestine), whose inhibitants are 'light brown' - even today. The present-day image of Christ being a 'White-man (Roman)' was invented in 325 CE by the Church as King (St.) Constantine, which indirectly proves Jewish myth (Talmud) that Christ was a 'Pandora' (sic).

However, if you visit France and Germany - there you could find some churches with 'Black Mary holding a Black Baby Jesus'!

asalamu alikum blond,

Gog & Magog are the descendents of those living in Europe. Their statues are all over Europe as folk heroes. i am not quite sure what you mean by that. could you please elaborate? thanks. :-) 

The Prophets (pbuh) prophecy of his followers after him being followers of Dajjal has been fulfilled. The whole world now follows Europeans and their baby nations. ??? are you essentially saying that the europeans are 'gog and magog'? i am asking because this is the impression i get from your post, to which i would not agree... i remember one hadith, which had the prophet muhammad (pbuh) saying that there's a 'wall' between gog and magog and the rest of the world...also would they not be killed by a 'worm' (or something similar to that)...(it's been a long time since i've last read on this topic)...

are not 'gog and magog' and the dajjal different phenomena/people/nations?

salam

mary wrote: ].....are not 'gog and magog' and the dajjal different phenomena/people/nations?...

Asslam-o-Aliakum

"The Prophet (pbuh) said:  'The nations shall gather and team up against you (i.e., Muslims) as the predators gather and team up against their preys.  A questioner asked: 'Is it because of us being low in numbers at that day?'  The Prophet replied: 'No, you that day shall be in great numbers, but you will be as powerless as the foam of the water on the surface of the river, and Allah shall remove any fear from your enemies toward you, and He shall put in your hearts a corruption.'  A questioner asked: 'O Apostle of Allah, what is the corruption?'  The Prophet replied: 'The love of life's amusements and the fear of death.'  (Abu Dawud, Book 37, Number 4297).

"The Prophet (pbuh) said: The flourishing state of Jerusalem will be when Yathrib is in ruins, the ruined state of Yathrib will be when the great war comes, the outbreak of the great war will be at the conquest of Constantinople and the conquest of Constantinople when the Dajjal (Antichrist) comes forth. He (the Prophet) struck his thigh or his shoulder with his hand and said: This is as true as you are here or as you are sitting (meaning Mu'adh ibn Jabal).  (Abu-Dawud, Battles Book 37, Number 4281)"

The People of Gog and Magog will be the Polytheists from the idol worshipers, the people who believe in more than one God, and the Zionist Jews as described in this link.

. http://www.answering-christianity.com/iron_gates.htm - http://www.answering-christianity.com/iron_gates.htm

asalamu alikm rahmat,

thank you for your link, i will read it when i've got more time (as it contains so much info), insh'Allah.

when i've finished, i will give some thoughts, insh'Allah.

PS i am merely asking because islam teaches us that we should not accept anything without proof and that's what i am trying to do.

salam,

mary

mary wrote: .....PS i am merely asking because islam teaches us that we should not accept anything without proof and that's what i am trying to do.....

That's very true. Islam is the only faith which is based on 'rationalism'. It commands is Believers to search the truth 'within the boundaries' of Holy Qur'an and the Prophet's (pbuh) Sunnah.

Wa Salaam.

The Gog and Magog were the successors of Yafaish. This was the third son pf Prophet Noah after Haam and Sam. So most probably he settled in central asia. The chinese, Russians and central Asians are believed to be from their race. However, the people (or whatever creatures we call them) which are the actual ones, to be released before the day of Judgement can not be exactly traced out. Because question arises that if Zulqarnain did close them behind the wall then how their genaration developed later. The exact truth is known to Allah only and they will be released soon after once Prophet Essa (Jesus) had killed Dajjal. What will be their actual appearence, will be they humans or aliens? We can't say anything for sure. However Dajjal is a system in which we are living today and a personality as well which has to appear once this FITNA reaches its climax.

Shams zaman   Pakistan 

Shams Zaman wrote: ....The exact truth is known to Allah only and they will be released soon after once Prophet Essa (Jesus) had killed Dajjal. What will be their actual appearence, will be they humans or aliens? We can't say anything for sure. However Dajjal is a system in which we are living today and a personality as well which has to appear once this FITNA reaches its climax....

Corrections sir,

1. When Essa (as) returns - he would NOT be a prophet but a Muslim (follower of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) - according to Islamic concept.

2. According to some a Salafi website - Dajjal will be followed by thousands of Iranians!

3. According to Bible Anti-Christ will be amongst Jews and his followers will be mostly Jews too.

The Messiah idea & The Anti Christ

It means the days of searching and waiting for one Messiah are over and We must see a living Messiah among Us and within Us. It means We start doing what has to be done in Our lives and in Our communities. It means We must be ready to make a difference. It means We must start feeding the hungry, caring for the poor, sharing Our wealth of knowledge and technology more openly and fairly. It means education must be easier to access for Education is true justice as it prevents the ills of the world from happening.

It means building F.A.I.T.H. = Families and Individuals Investing In Trust Truth and H.O.P.E.= Helping Overcome Poverty, Violence and Ignorance.

Effectively by using W.A.R.S. = World Arising Responsibly and Spiritually.

It means we each create a Spiritual Environment and Economy around us and are affected by the Spiritual Economies and Environments of others. It means We must accept our portion of responsibility when it comes to creating Healthy Spiritual Environments and Economies for ourselves and others. Recognizing that We are both Powerful and Powerless when faced with certain issues in our Spiritual lives, in the everyday issues also.

However regardless of what We are faced with there is hope. We can nurture that hope and that F.A.I.T.H. by seeking out the resource people that can assist us with being more self empowered and confident about our Spiritual lives regardless of the religion we belong to.

We can seek out information via books and internet and other sources to help us formulate Our own expression of Our F.A.I.T.H. For one prophet said investigation of the truth is up to each individual. No one else can find the truth for you. That is, your own truth. The truth you can live with.

F.A.I.T.H. = Families and Individuals Investing in Trust, Truth and H.O.P.E. = Helping Overcome Poverty, Violence and Ignorance Effectively.

Essentially it means each of Us are stake holders in building a Spiritual World to live in and that all of us are key people in the process of building a Spiritually healthy Environment and Economy.  Especially within ourselves We must nurture a healthy Spiritual Environment and Spiritual Economy.

We have the power within us to do great things and also not so great things, basically it comes done to choices we make and the will power it takes sometimes not to go against the norm by being good.

You are very valuable to God and do not forget it. You, We are the hands and feet for God We are voice for God, We are ears for God and We are doers for God. You matter to God and are needed by God to be healthy and whole and happy and a participant in building our Spiritual Economies and Environments.

In effect it means We are the A.N.T.I. C = A New Truth In Common with Christ, by this I mean We are the people accepting Our portion of responsibility so no one person must die for Us to be saved. That it is each of Us who must be responsible for our selves and others even more so than before. It means We can no longer turn a blind eye to the ills of the World , the people the animal, plant and sea life matter as well.

There is not going to be one A.N.T.I. Christ there are billions, they are not denying Christ but upholding the fact that each of Us are Powerful Spiritual Beings. Each requiring love and accountability to grow and develop thus denying the Christ like sacrifice being ever needed again to save anyone. With the exception of Fire fighters and Emergency Response Teams and other people like Police man and woman, that is sacrifice in the line of duty.

There is not going to be a war in the traditional sense on this but a new one called W.A.R.S.= World Arising Responsibly and Spiritually.

It means in truth that no one person should have to give up their life for another or for billions for that matter, each of Us is empowered to be Our best and do Our best for Ourselves and Others helping prevent a Monster of what the call the traditional Anti Christ.

It means the monster the anti Christ in the traditional sense controlling the minds of others to an evil extent if that or a person surfaces that they will be dealt with effectively and quickly not left to linger and cause harm amongst the people. They will receive counseling and psychiatric assistance immediately.  The real Anti Christ the monster is those who deny food, education and training to the poor, the abused or abusive and the ignorant.  These are the real monster Anti Christ.

For they too are valuable assets to Our society when they are healthy, maybe they will need help before they can really participate again the valuable Powerful Holy Spirit within everyone. Everyone is an asset to Our communities in some way shape or form. Some are more some are less. It must also be remembered that various cultures place a different scale of value on the lives of individuals. That is why this project is important especially to all of Our Global Societies.

It means We are the A.N.T.I. Christ but in a unique sort of way. By this I mean that everything that needs to be done can and should be done without anyone having to sacrifice their lives. 

As the A.N.T.I. Christ We are people who get the job done without sacrificing life or limb to do it. I know some of you may want to go with the Anti Christ the very bad of bad people opposite to Christ but I think there can be opposite but similarities too.

Similarities to Christ such as caring and giving of your time like he did. Giving of expertise, experience, knowledge, commitment and caring. These can be in any field of work whether it be hospital workers, school teachers, retail workers, factory workers, restaurant workers, volunteers, parents, friends, grandparents, siblings and car givers.

When I use the word A.N.T.I. it is not against Christ but the opposite to an extent, the good extent. Just because it is traditionally used to mean a person totally the opposite of Christ I mean bad, very bad actually, does not mean We cannot shift it to mean something good for a change.

So indeed the A.N.T.I. Christ has come but it is not one person it is every person. Each doing their part to make the world a better place. This A.N.T.I. Christ I am talking about loves God and Loves Humanity and would not do anything to harm it.

If anything this A.N.T.I. Christ is one to care and promote peace where ever they are and go. A.N.T.I. = A New Truth In Common

Indeed it is a New Truth in a way that We are the A.N.T.I. Christ very much so if you ask me. The salvation of the World does not mean everyone must give up their dreams and hopes to follow the road Christ, Buddha, The Bab, Bahaullah, AbdulBaha and Mohammed created new religions so We do not need to create a New religion We must create a new Spiritual Economies and Spiritual Environments. It means We are major stake holders in F.A.I.T.H. building with W.A.R.S. and everyone of Us is important to God.

None of Us is left out of this whether We belong to a religion or not for it encompasses our lives daily regardless of who we are or what we are doing. The Holy can be found in all places in all people every where. God has left none of Us alone, even though We may feel it at times.

For G.O.D. = Guiding Our Destiny. Is not God Guiding Our Destiny through Ourselves and others? I believe God the Creator is most certainly. None of Us is left without guidance although sometimes that guidance is in error. Think about all the wonderful People and things we have today that give Us guidance. We have television, radio, computers, internet and hundreds of different professions that bring Us educational guidance everyday.

What this We are the Messiah Project means is that the Powerful Spiritual Force We are must be geared more towards leveling the playing field for the average person. It means more efforts in volunteering and work related projects that address Poverty, Violence and Ignorance.

It means G.O.D. is Guiding Our Destiny and We are a major stake holders and players in the giving and receiving of the guidance. As major stake holders it means We are accountable for Our share in remedying societies ills. It means We take a portion of the burden not all of it when it comes to resolving Poverty, Violence and Ignorance.

It means taking a proactive approach on drug abuse and educating them and counseling them that there are other ways to feel good and solve their problems. Finding resolve within themselves to resolving their personal problems so they do not feel the need to use drugs. Also they need to be reminded they are major stake holders and key players in resolving not only their own problems but participants in society as well. 

Anne Marie Elderkin-Habibi

http://groups.msn.com/TheRenewalofIslam - http://groups.msn.com/TheRenewalofIslam

amlhabibi2000, do you think you can put that in normal type size?

amlhabibi2000 wrote: ....We do not need to create a New religion We must create a new Spiritual Economies and Spiritual Environments. It means We are major stake holders in F.A.I.T.H. building with W.A.R.S. and everyone of Us is important to God.....

Well in case you don't know - God already have created 'such family for people like you'. He is the owner of 'City of London' - no other than Rothschild. Both Bush and Kerry are his agents.

Daniel Dworsky wrote: Right. Why do you even answer this guy. Y'all only encourage him

Answer whom - you or the Bible?

In case you never touched the Bible - let me quote a few 'holy prophecies' for you:

1.  The Antichrist  - He is a Jew  - "Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers . . .nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. Daniel 11:37"

2.   He is from the tribe/region of Dan  - "We looked for peace, but no good came; and for a time of health, and behold trouble! The snorting of his horses was heard from Dan: the whole land trembled at the sound of the neighing of his strong ones; for they are come, and have devoured the land, and all that is in it; the city, and those that dwell therein. For, behold, I will send serpents, cockatrices, among you, which will not be charmed, and they shall bite you, saith the LORD. Jeremiah 8:15-17"

 3.    He is from the serpent's root - "Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent. . . Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.  Isaiah 14:29,31"

There is definitely no belief in an anti christ anywhere in any version of the jewish religion unless you count Jews for Dodgers or something of the like

"Dodgers", you say! - Certainly they were not during the time of Rev. Martin Luther - the Founder of the 'Protestants' - but he certainly told the world what he thought of the Jews. Would you like to have a free link to read his opinion of Jews?

Dear Danial

Are you really a Jew? I am astonished to hear from a Jew that he says: There is definitely no belief in an anti christ anywhere in any version of the jewish religion unless you count Jews for Dodgers or something of the like.

Dear the focal point of the Zionism was the Coming Of The Messiah. It was Theodor Herzl who had reincarnated the concept of Messiah and that all Jews must carryout Allyiah to the Holy land before the Messiah comes. Brother I would not only suggest you to read the Bible but also the following books:

The Psychohistory of Zionism by Jay y Gonen

Rising Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel by Israel Shahak

These certainly will prove benificial for you. Jews were waiting for Messiah and they rejected Jesus and then Muhammad (Peace be on them all) and no Messiah has come so far since the Jewish Diaspora. So where did the concept go? If you happen to ask any of the Jew in Israel and belonging to Haridety party he will tell you that since 1917 the Messionic era has started and in fact we are living in that era. I think thay are absoletly right because we are in fact living in the Dajjali era and it is about to reach to its climax. And it will happen once the Jewish Messiah or the anti-christ for Muslims and Christians will appear.

It may happen within next 10-30 years or may be a little earlier or later. This is what our religious teachings foretells. Nostradamus has even described it earlier and he was a Jewish too though he later converted to Christanity.

Shams Zaman   [email protected]

Dear Rehmat

A Prophet is selected by Allah alone and any individual can't attain this status through any means. A Prophet was a Prophet in the Barzakh or the spritual world where Allah undertook oath from all Prophets but excluisively from 5 which are mentioned in Quran. In this world once he is born, he is born as a Prophet and once he will stand on the Day of Judgement he will stand as a Prophet where he will give the testimony that he had delivered the message. So once Jesus was raised up alive he was a Prophet and once he will come back he will still be a Prophet. But why will he come back? because there are serious alligations against him. Christians has given him the status of God and Jews even don,t recognise him.

The actual word for a Prophet is messanger so he will bring the message of God for Jews and Christians. Jews became eligible for divine punishment for rejections of Gods signs and Prophets but the matter was pended by God for some reason. They were not treated like AAd and Samod etc. So once he comes he will execute the pending task and will also refute the allegations against him.

But certainly he will come as no new Prophet or or as a last Prophet or to bring new message or a new religion. He will be the follower of Muhammad (PBUH) like of another common follower but his prophethood will not cease to exist. A Prophet is a Prophet and remains as a Prophet. The only thing is that he will come to eliminate the anti-christ and his followers, to deliver message for Christians that he never claimed to be a God or son of god.

Shams Zaman  [email protected] 

...We do not need to create a New religion We must create a new Spiritual Economies and Spiritual Environments. It means We are major stake holders in F.A.I.T.H. building with W.A.R.S. and everyone of Us is important to God...AmlHabibi2000

F.A.I.T.H.= Families and Individuals Investing in Trust, Truth and Hope= Helping overcome poverty, violence and ignorance effectively and spiritually.

W.A.R.S.= World Arising Responsibly and Spiritually

Next time include the definitions because then it makes more sense.

May Allah Bless you.

amlhabibi2000 wrote: ...There is not one Prophet but Billions, we all have a voice for Allah

"Billions" - And I thought Hadiths only mention the numbers to be 124,000!

Maybe the reason is back then they could not imagine a big number like 10 Billion....

amlhabibi2000 wrote: ...Maybe the reason is back then they could not imagine a big number like 10 Billion....

I agree. The Hadiths were not written by Zionists - Who can turn 300,000 dead Jews to 'Six Million Died'

Rehmat wrote:  you never touched the Bible - let me quote a few 'holy prophecies' for you:     <snip>

Ah...I do so love it when Muslims, who will tell you that the Bible is completely bogus because it's been edited so many times, will still quote it when it suits their purposes.

Kim...

kim wrote: Ah...I do so love it when Muslims, who will tell you that the Bible is completely bogus because it's been edited so many times, will still quote it when it suits their purposes. Kim...

Ah....Tell that to Dr. Robert Funk, who having three Ds (DDD) must know more about Bible than any Jew in the world.

According to Dr. Funk during his study of OT/NT (1986-92) he and his 14 Christian associates found out that 80% of the Bible was/is written by human who were never 'inspired', while the remaining 20% could PROBABLY be divine.

But then Australian Islamic Association (AIA) may not have published this 'unimportant news' to its Jewish readers over there.

Angel wrote: Is Dr Robert Funk, some kinda of funky guy?

Of course - He has the highest degree in Christian theology (DDD), while you have none in the Jewish one!

I don't say that holocaust never happened. But this also remains a fact that never in the history 6 millions Jews were killed. 0.6 Million is believeable. The total population of Jews is not more than 10.3 million today and we believe that 6 millions were persecuted. Previously for me it was indeed a sad incident but now I think that Jews deserved it because they are cousions of Hitler and doing the same in occupied lands. Ben Gurion said that the golden era of Jewish diaspora was in the Muslim spain and this is what we recieved in return. Europeans also persecuted Jews for centuries and still they have not learnt anything. Though God was kind to them by removing their sufferings a few decades ago, but now it seems that they are not intrested in peace. Indeed their time is running out and they will meet the same divine fate which other arrogant nations had met thousands of years ago.

Shams Zaman  Pakistan