This is a Request for all Muslim Families in the west Especially but all over the world. PLEASE WATCH YOUR SONS, they are running wild!!! Most Muslim families are concerned with thier childerens piety, especially with thier daughters. They watch them closely, how they dress, who are thier friends, where they go ect. But what about the boys??? The sons especially teenagers are allowed MUCH MORE FREEDOM! They are allowed to roam around alone or with friends, stay at friends houses, travel ect ect. Meanwhile I am sorry to say Most families, ESPECIALLY IMIGRANTS are totally clueless to what thier sons are really doing. Well, and an American who went to college and high school with Muslim boys let me tell you-

1. They are getting in fights and becoming friends with the wrong crowd.

2. They are smoking and drinking, sometimes doing drugs.

3. THEY ARE CHASING GIRLS!!!! Yes, they are chasing girls and trying to get in thier pants. I am just being honest!!

4. THEY ARE BEING CHASED BY AGGRESIVE GIRLS!!! Don't be out in the dark and think that girls in the west won't go after your son with all they have and try to seduce him. THEY WILL!!! ANd most parents have no idea that thier sons are having sex with a girl or many girls.

5. They are getting girls pregnant. LET ME WARN YOU PEOPLE, in a Western country just because the youngsters aren't married means nothing. It is not like in a Muslim country that a man can deny he slept with a woman and not support the child. IN THE WEST HE WILL PAY!!!  Even if he is 16 years old, he will have to submit D>N>A be tested and if proven the father pay child support for 18years. Needless to say you will be ashamed, the child will be confused and most likely if the girl is not Muslim, the child wont be either.

Lastly a nice story. At my Masjids' sunday school a little seven year old boy told us a sweet little story the other day. He is from a nice Somali family. His brother was playing basketball with friends and another group of boys, they got into a fight and HE GOT STABBED IN THE CHEST!!! One of his brothers friends got stabbed in the back. Now where were these boys hanging out, with who? I bet the parents had no idea.

Meanwhile the daugthers were probably closely watched at home, while the brothers are IN THE HOSPITAL.

Wake up people, this culture of letting boys have thier fun is UNISLAMIC and has to stop!!!!

Bismillah,

Many is the time I tracked my boys down to let them know that yes, Allah, SWT, is watching them, but I'm keeping track as best as I can on this earth also!  (Whew!  This is tiring.  Sure wish I had some help!)

I'll just add to your superb list, Sister Jenni:  Check your internet browsers and temporary internet files and subfolders et cetera.  And those handheld game systems can have porn files on them. 

And why does your 12 year old need a phone?  Whatever reason he gives you, it's possibly to call his girlfriend in secret. (See dating in Islam.)  It's okay to listen in to check on your kids.  I'm not a nosey person, just doing my job of child-rearing.  For example, the door WILL come off if it is locked too many times and not opened immediately when I knock.

It's a drag to be the tough guy, but it will help our kids set higher standards, ISA.

herjihad, good point. Why does a teenager or preteen need a cel phone, or a computer in thier own room? If your kid walks alone and needs a cel thier is a great one for kids, it has maybe five buttons. You program the numbers it calls and it recieves. It can also call 911 with one button.

On a final note, I think you should allways be prepared to take action, or go commando on a kid out of control. If my son were out of control we would have him on a plane to Pakistan before he knew what was happening. Meanwhile he would either be milking cows in a village or in military boarding school. This will be very clear to him. First time you get busted drinking or doing something really bad, you're out of here. And I would move too if needed!!! Peace

herjihad wrote: Many is the time I tracked my boys down to let them know that yes, All, SWT, is watching them, but I'm keeping track as best as I can on this earth also!  (Whew!  This is tiring.  Sure wish I had some help!)

Just out of curosity.. how do you end up tracking them down?...

I have this image in my mind of you running down the street chasing after some boy.. haha..  but I doubt thats true...

Bismillah,

-ArabianKnight- wrote: herjihad wrote: Many is the time I tracked my boys down to let them know that yes, All, SWT, is watching them, but I'm keeping track as best as I can on this earth also!  (Whew!  This is tiring.  Sure wish I had some help!)   Just out of curosity.. how do you end up tracking them down?... I have this image in my mind of you running down the street chasing after some boy.. haha..  but I doubt thats true...

Not just "some boy", my son!  I don't have much chance of chasing and catching him because at 12 he's faster than me!  For example, he went to his friend's to get a homework list and didn't come back for 30 minutes.  So I went looking for him and found him in the neighborhood playing on the edge of the woods with the other kids.

Bismillah,

For how long and to waht extent you can keep tab on 'em?

you cant win.

Grasshopper,

I am not in this life to win, but to run the race as Allah, SWT wills.

Bismillah,

"a boy is not like a girl. a girl needs to be looked and taken care of. not a boy. a boy needs to be rough and tough. i tell, leave the boys alone, he can handle himself, but if you leave the girls alone they may slip badly. so leave the boys, but keep a close watch on the girls."

You're funny, Brother Salman!  I suspect that most of the sisters on this forum had more of a childhood like mine where they ran and played getting bumps and bruises just like the boys you are used to.  And that's what I saw in Jordan up to a point, that is until puberty or until the extended family noticed that their girls were getting grown up.

All children need protection from evil.  From the evil of the predators out there in this world and from the evils of letting them run wild, as Sister Jenni's cogent topic elucidates.  Brother Salman, I assume that you are a young man, not yet a father.  Take our advice and care for your boys when Allah, SWT blesses you with some, not from silly bumps and bruises although you should keep the peroxide and bandaids handy, but from the social deviants that seek to misguide them and from the whisperings of Shaytan that encourage them to do misguided things.

herjihad wrote: Bismillah, "a boy is not like a girl. a girl needs to be looked and taken care of. not a boy. a boy needs to be rough and tough. i tell, leave the boys alone, he can handle himself, but if you leave the girls alone they may slip badly. so leave the boys, but keep a close watch on the girls." You're funny, Brother Salman!  I suspect that most of the sisters on this forum had more of a childhood like mine where they ran and played getting bumps and bruises just like the boys you are used to.  And that's what I saw in Jordan up to a point, that is until puberty or until the extended family noticed that their girls were getting grown up.

sister herjihad, my saying that if you leave the girls alone they may slip badly i did not mean to say that they may fall down thud ! or get bruises or such things. i actually meant to say that if you leave the girls alone they may get off the track or deviate from the track in their lives.

Bismillah,

Assalamu Alaikum:

All children need guidance and a strong example. If the boys are allowed to run wild and do whatever they want, then who will all of these pious, well watched-after girls marry?

The Prophet (s.a.w.) said: When the human being dies, his/her deeds will come to an end except three kinds: Sadaqah Jariah (continuous charity), beneficial knowledge, and a good child that will pray for him/her. (Muslim).

The messenger of Allah, Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam, also said, �Treat your children equally, treat your children equally, treat your children equally.� (Ahmad, Abu Dawud, ibn Hibbaan)

Can't be much clearer that that...

Salman,

If a girl goes out and strays from the path, perhaps committing Zina.  Who is she doing it with?????  SOMEBODY ELSE'S SON! 

Bismillah,

foody wrote: I refuse to believe that some human beings are evil, every child born is innocene and pure.  Some just lose it at a very age, some may have abnormalities in the brain hormone and brain abnormalities, but that is the responsibility of the parents to save their child/children for what ever problems ails them. If the parents don't do it, who does. Modern society are neglecting their children, and parents now are only thinking of themselves and some now have grown up wondering if their role is really important, that they can be replaced and some have grown up not knowing what a parent is. It is all signs of the minor end of time, if you have read the minor signs of end of time, it is happening.

When you say that you don't believe children are born evil, I agree with you.  I do think it is possible that (just to give an example, this is not a researched number) one in a billion might be evil by design simply because of the story in the Holy Quran about the boys and the wall.  Do you remember that one?

When you say that parents are neglecting their chilldren and only thinking of themselves, I know that some people do this, but I don't see many doing this.  My parents did this, however, my blood sister and I are not because we know what that feels like and we want to care for our families as Allah, SWT, wants us to.

When you say that modern society is neglecting their children I agree that society as a whole does not provide for our children.  If it takes a village to raise a child, why am I all alone in this job? (Reference the post about the disaffected dads.)  Truly the societies I have seen put the onus of childcare solely on mom's shoulders.  When dad cops out, when the grandparents don't recognize their duty to them, when the neighbors barely notice them unless they are noisy, it's mom who does it.  I live in a village, but the village is blind to the needs of the children unless those kids have parents with cash, and lots of it.

Pardon me.  I need to chase the boys down again!

When you say that you don't believe children are born evil, I agree with you.  I do think it is possible that (just to give an example, this is not a researched number) one in a billion might be evil by design simply because of the story in the Holy Quran about the boys and the wall.  Do you remember that one?"

Actually I don't..can you please tell me about it? What does the Holy Quran says about boys and the wall?  Oh I am sorry, do you mean Jojo and Majojo, I think that is what is it called? If it is so, I am sorry, you are right there are times where evil is there and cannot be stopped, like hitler for example and so on. You are right sister, but what *I* would do as a father if God Well allows me to be one, I would do all my power, heart, soul, blood to make them into a good civilians and prevent chaos in their souls. I will protect my future children with my life. 

I am truly sorry herjihad that lots of people are throwing the loads to mothers, but mothers are the care takers of children from children between birth and 6 or 7 years old I believe, but then the FATHER should take the role with the mother to taking care of the child. If however that is not the case in your village and all the loads are in you to taking care of children then that is a great example of how fathers don't think much of themselves and are lost.  If they all act tough if they all think of going to work and labour, etc it is all signs of feeling comfortable and feeling wanted and feeling useful and this is something not been feeling at the parenting level and it is worse if the woman tries to force the man for parenting because he will feel that she is dimasculinizing him it should come from another man and a role model from another man and tought that fathers are not like mothers but are as equally important and so forth, but if that is not the case and solved then here we gain are creating formula for disasters as such horrible trend to continue :(

Jenni wrote: Salman, you really sound silly. Let your boys just have fun?? Maybe they can go to a house of prostitution and contract H.I.V. aids. That might toughen them up, until they get sick and die. This attitude is the problem in Islam doing drugs, drinking alchohol, stealing, having sex before marraige are EQUAL SINS FOR MEN AND WOMEN!!!! And parents who permit it to happen are PERMITTING SIN!!!!! Where in The Quran does it say Boys run around and be wild, girls stay home and be good????

jenni, all boys are not grown in that way as you have wrote. you need to teach them moral values and grow and parent them in a proper way. once they are grown up enough and they think that they can handle themselves well in their lives, they should be left alone. after all, it is their life. boys need to know how to tackle different situations in life. a job of a parent is to nurture the child in a proper way. then you may leave the boys alone. but the same thing cannot be done with girls. girls cannot be left alone as they cannot handle themselves well in tough situations. they fall under depression very often and sometimes due to many other reasons they mey get deviated off the track in their lives.

Salman wrote: but the same thing cannot be done with girls. girls cannot be left alone as they cannot handle themselves well in tough situations. they fall under depression very often and sometimes due to many other reasons they mey get deviated off the track in their lives.

Females are different.. but they arnt weak or emotionally invalids..

Perhaps you're view is based on somthing cultural... But is not a definitive fact of the gender.

Assalamu alaikum,

Sister Herjihad said "When you say that you don't believe children are born evil, I agree with you.  I do think it is possible that (just to give an example, this is not a researched number) one in a billion might be evil by design simply because of the story in the Holy Quran about the boys and the wall.  Do you remember that one?"

I believe she is referring to the story of Moses and the unnamed Sage found in Sura Al-Kahf (18), specifically found in verses 60 - 82.  In the story, the Sage kills a young boy and later explains to Moses why.

"Then they proceeded: until when they met a young boy, he slew him....." 18:74

"As for the youth, his parents were people of Faith, and we feared that he would grieve them by obstinate rebellion and ingratitude (to Allah and man)." 18:80

I also believe that some children are born evil, but I can't even pretend to comprehend why or to what purpose and Allahu a'lam.

Peace, ummziba. 

ummziba wrote: Assalamu alaikum, Sister Herjihad said "When you say that you don't believe children are born evil, I agree with you.  I do think it is possible that (just to give an example, this is not a researched number) one in a billion might be evil by design simply because of the story in the Holy Quran about the boys and the wall.  Do you remember that one?" I believe she is referring to the story of Moses and the unnamed Sage found in Sura Al-Kahf (18), specifically found in verses 60 - 82.  In the story, the Sage kills a young boy and later explains to Moses why. "Then they proceeded: until when they met a young boy, he slew him....." 18:74 "As for the youth, his parents were people of Faith, and we feared that he would grieve them by obstinate rebellion and ingratitude (to Allah and man)." 18:80 I also believe that some children are born evil, but I can't even pretend to comprehend why or to what purpose and Allahu a'lam. Peace, ummziba.

Bismillah,

Shukran Jazzellan, Sister Ummziba!

foody wrote: You said, " When you say that you don't believe children are born evil, I agree with you.  I do think it is possible that (just to give an example, this is not a researched number) one in a billion might be evil by design simply because of the story in the Holy Quran about the boys and the wall.  Do you remember that one?"   Actually I don't..can you please tell me about it? What does the Holy Quran says about boys and the wall?  Oh I am sorry, do you mean Jojo and Majojo, I think that is what is it called? If it is so, I am sorry, you are right there are times where evil is there and cannot be stopped, like hitler for example and so on. You are right sister, but what *I* would do as a father if God Well allows me to be one, I would do all my power, heart, soul, blood to make them into a good civilians and prevent chaos in their souls. I will protect my future children with my life.  I am truly sorry herjihad that lots of people are throwing the loads to mothers, but mothers are the care takers of children from children between birth and 6 or 7 years old I believe, but then the FATHER should take the role with the mother to taking care of the child. If however that is not the case in your village and all the loads are in you to taking care of children then that is a great example of how fathers don't think much of themselves and are lost.  If they all act tough if they all think of going to work and labour, etc it is all signs of feeling comfortable and feeling wanted and feeling useful and this is something not been feeling at the parenting level and it is worse if the woman tries to force the man for parenting because he will feel that she is dimasculinizing him it should come from another man and a role model from another man and tought that fathers are not like mothers but are as equally important and so forth, but if that is not the case and solved then here we gain are creating formula for disasters as such horrible trend to continue :(

So according to your analysis, we're just tough out of luck? 

The hardest part is the idea that our children need the love and care NOW.  This isn't an intellectual debate for me or just an interesting discussion.  Ten years from now they will be fully grown men with their own issues.  Brothers, I know you can't take my kids out and play basketball with them or say:  Let's pray in a loving eager way so that they want to pray rather than:  Hiawan, go pray.  So do it for your neighboring Muslim families.  Make a big brother club to really care about the youth in your area right now when it matters.

As Salam Alaikum,

In my community there a alot of children and the problem that I see is the parents not disciplining their children so the children-boys and girls- run wild, mess up the masjid, are loud during salat,etc.  This bothers everyone except the parents it seems.  So the change must start with the parents.

I also want to point out the fact that girls are also sometimes running wild, not just the boys.  But I think that it is in the human nature of boys to be louder and more energetic in the young years than girls.

One last point-  If the children in the community see that the adults in the community are organized and disciplined, the children will carry on in our example.

Girls 'tend' to mature faster, at least here in the west.  The difference, having traveled is that children are 'less innocent' than in other parts of the world. Protection of the children is very important and families are expected to stay involved more with each other. (sometimes for good and sometimes not so good).

I think there is a difference between teaching independence skills and too much looseness. All children, including teens need guidance and involvement. They need to have boundaries and help in learning valuable skills. Too much freedom assumes they know how to take care of themselves. This only comes from wisdom and time.

Plus some people are more likely to understand and realize the consequences of their actions. This is not gender specific, but based upon personality.

If and when I have a teenager and they start getting into trouble they'll be off to another country or the outdoor school in Alaska!

I hear from parents.. "What can I do? They won't go (when refering to class)?" And i think who is in charge?? Parents of course should love their children and be their friend in life but they are also given the responsibilty of raising them correctly, with good morals and values.  This is called 'tough love".

The only reason a child should have a cell phone is if you can plug in only number for parents, teachers and so they can call 911. Otherwise it helps to defocus them for other things.. Get off the phone and get involved in life. (Same goes for adults as well! )

Jenni,

Did you see the (can't remember if it was 20/20 or Dateline) that talked about the difference in boys and girls in school?  The study showed that girls development is quicker (which is well known) so their concentration at younger ages is better. 

I have seen that 90% of the discipline problems are from the boys. They don't do thier homework, they joke in class, they are late, they make up excuses to get out of class, they don't pay attention. ect ect. There is a HUGE difference between the girls behavior and the boys, the girls pay attention, remember thier pencils and homework they are really a JOY!!!

This is exactly what the show was talking about.  Boys and Girls are VERY different in the way they develop into adults.  Girls mature quickly mentally where boys have to first deal with their new aggressive tendencies before they can gain the focus.  The sudden introduction of testosterone at puberty sends them for an emotional loop.  It was a wonderful segment.  I'll see if I can find a written article from the show.

They pointed out it folly to compare girls to boys.  A 14 year old girl is developing mentally and emotionally faster than her male peer.  However, boys tend to mature overnight (in a relative to girls), they get a slow start but when the time comes they do it very quickly. 

Now of course, there are exceptions to every rule.....my sister is an example of that....but I've heard Tomboy used to describe her preteen years more than once.

However, Boys need more structure to help them control their aggression and their changing bodies.  They are more sexually aggressive in their younger years, where women tend to get that way in their 30s.  Boys need to be understood better, but your right with that means they also need to have better educational programs and better community programs out there.

Jenni wrote: Salman, you really sound silly. Let your boys just have fun?? Maybe they can go to a house of prostitution and contract H.I.V. aids. That might toughen them up, until they get sick and die. This attitude is the problem in Islam doing drugs, drinking alchohol, stealing, having sex before marraige are EQUAL SINS FOR MEN AND WOMEN!!!! And parents who permit it to happen are PERMITTING SIN!!!!! Where in The Quran does it say Boys run around and be wild, girls stay home and be good????

again i repeat to the readers and especially to jenni who (by looking at her posts) i think keeps partiality between boys and girls and hates boys. the truth must be accepted that boys cannot be treated as girls.

jenni, all boys are not grown in that way as you have wrote. you need to teach them moral values and grow and parent them in a proper way. once they are grown up enough and they think that they can handle themselves well in their lives, they should be left alone. after all, it is their life. boys need to know how to tackle different situations in life. a job of a parent is to nurture the child in a proper way. then you may leave the boys alone. but the same thing cannot be done with girls. girls cannot be left alone as they cannot handle themselves well in tough situations. they fall under depression very often and sometimes due to many other reasons they mey get deviated off the track in their lives.

They are like the drone bees now, we useless, not needed, so what does the drone bee do? He stings anyone he can see to kill himself? What does the boy do, he cause murders, kill himself, do bad things because he doesn't look much worth to himself? What, is it because now woman she be the take cares, barren, the one with wealth?

Bismillah,

We need to value and love all of our children.  Sister Jenni is not advocating that men be devalued, but just that kids at the mosque be kept under control.  Maybe you haven't experienced this where you are, but many times the boys run around freely with noone disciplining them in the mosques and in the neighborhoods.  Girls do this also, but because of the over-protectiveness of some parents, they just don't become as vociferously problematic during school.

It seems like you have experienced women cutting men off at the knees in many ways.  But just because there are women and men who don't adjust well in society doesn't mean that all women or men are limited or described by those people.

We need education and the ability to make money because it is hard to be impoverished in this world.  Girls become mothers and need to have good educations for work and for childrearing as well.

Boys and girls act out when they feel penned in and unloved.  I understand that very well.  That's why I say that we need to provide for all of the children regular, safe, organized activities.  As a community of very different individuals, we need to work together for our children are going to build the future that we still live in.  I reiterate that you guys especially should go play soccer or basketball with the kids at the mosque.  Organize a checkers afternoon once or twice a week for all of the kids.  Let's stop pointing fingers and keep loving all the kids together.  Okay?

foody, how about we set higher standards for boys, especially teenagers and expect them to stay out of trouble? How about we not just say, oh they are being boys, let them be. I am not trying to hurt you in any way, believe me. I have a 15 year old nephew, and a 19 year old nephew who are wonderful young men, good students, and good to thier parents. Let me say they HAVE VERY STRICT PARENTS!!! They do not run wild, they don't chase girls or get into any trouble, they aren't allowed to just wander around the city( Lahore,Pakistan). And again, many studies have been done that in a School with only boys or only girls both genders do MUCH BETTER!! In much of the Islamic world this is how school is and it works!! Boys can get the focus and attention they need and so can the girls. ANd it does not lead to girls being lesbians because they don't have boys in school, that is just silly!!! Cheer up, we need you boys to grow up and be strong men, I don't want weak troublesome men leading the world, but strong, just, fair men with good morals and faith. Peace

Jenni wrote: Salman, I think you are living out of touch with reality, especially when it comes to what young Muslim men are up to. Even in India!! I love men, have a great husband, care for my brother, in laws, uncles, and have a wonderful son. My son is grounded(prohibited) from his Nintendo game cube for one month for being mean to his sister and talking badly to us. Even though he is good 95% of the time when he is not he pays the price. He is 6, cleans his own room, makes his own bed and is polite to other kids and adults. I am raising him to be a productive man and he will be educated but also know how to cook, clean, garden, do laundry ect. Those are the kind of men the world need, responsible, hard working, helpful. Not spoiled, helpless, selfish ect. ect. ect. Wake up Salman, you have plenty of boys running wild in India, and many are MUslim!!

one of the signs of Qiyamah is that women population will preponderate over men population.

jenni, don't nurture your 6 year old child in such a way that when he grows up he gets fooled by everyone. the world is different. we are in the 21st century. he is a boy. leave him alone. allow him to be free. make him rough and tough.

I'm not sure if this is a Muslim issue but in commenting on the general issue of kids I disagree with the author here in the generalization of "boys." I believe children are a bi-product of both the environment and their parental upbringing. Just because you may experienced rowdy boys at your mosque is not applicable to the millions of other boys or girls in different households. However I believe that the upbringing of some children can also be cultural.

I believe that parents are to blame for most actions from childhood to adolesence and even some parts of adulthood. But in reality a parent will not always have control ovet their kids because even they teach their kids right and wrong there is a thing called peer pressure. Once the kids comes into a different environment outside the household and is exposed to other kids who are not as "civilized" it can definitely effect the kid. The best thing a parent can do is teach the kids right from wrong, discipline them and hope that the children will exercise the knowledge taught to them.

foody wrote: salman Salman do that to your son and the effect of with the FATHER is horrindous....your SON will love you for it instead of leaving him like you leave a boy in a forest!

foody, forest boys are more smarter . don't you know that? don't you know how smart was tarzan?

Honestly the issue here is not a religious one. The freedom of boys is like that in a lot of cultures. I don't say most as I don't know "most" cultures myself. The same goes for Hispanic culture. Boys have a lot of freedom and the father is normally strict on the daughter. In patriarchal traditions boys are normally geared toward things which are considered "manly" and young girls geared towards things which are feminine. Children are bi-products of both parental influence and social environment. This is nothing new. What you are arguing Jenni is a matter of cultural upbringing. It's funny because when I used to go to college our professor made us split us up into small groups and we' have to argue our positions against one another on certain subjects and this subject regarding children and nature vs nurture came up.

I remember learning a lot and all I know is that a lot of cultural traditions are this way. Even in some American societies this is how is is. The best you can do is worry about your own kids.

foody wrote: salman But we don't live in forests anymore

foody, then u should not have quoted as below

foody wrote: Salman do that to your son and the effect of with the FATHER is horrindous....your SON will love you for it instead of leaving him like you leave a boy in a forest!

Bismillah,

Side note:  One boy went fishing with his dad this weekend and I took the other to a sports competition.

Besides spending time with kids, we need to set as good a role model for them as we can.  When we treat our spouses respectfully and exhibit honesty and integrity in our dealings with them, our children grow to really appreciate the worth of good behavior.

foody wrote: I am sorry if I have offended you, but how did I offend you? Please brother let us discuss it, which of the statement I said above there have offended you?

foody, the statements which you said that i would leave my son in forest just pinched me a bit. foody its ok. never mind. i accept your apology.