Why do some oppose religions?
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Topic: Why do some oppose religions?
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Subject: Why do some oppose religions?
Date Posted: 30 October 2019 at 4:37am
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I'll start this by explaining my position; I am an atheist. I post on forums like this and debate with people elsewhere with an objective of challenging people's faith. My motivation for doing this is that I see religion as a very harmfull thing in the world. I see it as one of the things that causes wars and untold suffering in many smaller ways within society and families. I see it taking away somebody's self confidence and self sovernty, that is to take away the self confidence to own your own decisions. To consider yourself responsible for your own actions, good or bad. I see the present state of the world with the West having triuphed over all other cultures, economically and culturally, as the result of the abandonment of religious thinking. It is a very new thing. A fluke. It has only happened due to the praticle application of skeptical enquiry. Science. I want the human race to advance as fast as it can. To be the best we can be. To solve how to cure cancer. To build a world which is better than todays. I see religious practices and thinking to be a very great break on this process. That's why I argue as I do. And by the way I do the same to Christians. Or any other religious types, communists etc.
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Replies:
Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 30 October 2019 at 7:18pm
Hi Tim There is no dangerous religion in this world, but with religion there are also some adherents of religion who come out of their respective religious rules. That is a possible its danger. Everyone has the right to determine the path of freedom to think, work, including religion. (There is no compulsion) The western world is superior in economy and culture. Indeed, the pact is like that, because anyone who is serious in trying to get changes, then he will get it. Proverb says: "If there is a will, there is a way" As for many people who are religious, it is due to the belief in their hearts and minds that the afterlife exists (after death) Religious people believe that something exists because something made it. as an example with the existence of this universe, religious people believe that there is something has created it. Another example, as we see a car, it is not possible that the car happened by itself, surely we all believe that the car was made by humans even though we did not see who made the car. That is why people are religious, because they believe that there is something has enormous power while the human race does not have. |
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 01 November 2019 at 2:08am
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Dangerous religions; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_religion
 Religion and society
Religion was part of all levels of Aztec society. On the state level, religion was controlled by the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlatoani" rel="nofollow - Tlatoani and the high priests governing the main temples in the ceremonial precinct of the Aztec capital of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenochtitlan" rel="nofollow - Tenochtitlan . This level involved the large monthly festivals, and a number of specific rituals centered around the ruler dynasty and attempting to stabilize both the political and cosmic systems. These rituals were the ones that involved a sacrifice of humans. One of these rituals was the feast of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huey_Tozoztli" rel="nofollow - Huey Tozoztli , when the ruler himself ascended https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Tlaloc" rel="nofollow - Mount Tlaloc and engaged in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altruistic_suicide" rel="nofollow - autosacrifice in order to petition the rains. Throughout society, each level had their own rituals and deities and played their part in the larger rituals of the community. For example, the class of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pochteca" rel="nofollow - Pochteca merchants were involved in the feast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlaxochimaco" rel="nofollow - Tlaxochimaco , where the merchant deity would be celebrated, and slaves bought on specific slave markets by long-distance traders would be sacrificed. On the feast of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ochpaniztli" rel="nofollow - Ochpaniztli , all commoners participated in sweeping the streets. Afterwards, they also undertook ritual bathing. The most spectacular ritual was the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Fire_ceremony" rel="nofollow - New Fire ceremony which took place every 52 years and involved every citizen of the Aztec realm. During this, commoners would destroy house utensils, quench all fires, and receive new fire from the bonfire on top of Mt. Huixachtlan, lit on the chest of a sacrificed person by the high priests. An apocalyptic cult, 900 dead: remembering the Jonestown massacre, 40 years on |
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 05 November 2019 at 6:52am
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Just watching a Utube video. One idea in it is that the neo-Marxist-Post-Modernist Lefties who are the scurge of interlectual debate in the west are those who oppose the idea of the autonomous individual. Sorry for all the big words but... I agree with this and further think I would put the burth of the enlightenment and birth or science, the industrial revolution and triuph of the west down to free speach its' self. That is all those wonders of humanity are the diret reult of free speach. I find religious thinking to be the opposite of freedom of thought so I oppose religion.
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Posted By: Noor-e-hidayat
Date Posted: 06 November 2019 at 12:09am
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Not Agreed with you .......You said what you observe, it's not 100% sure that you are right or wrong as observing by own yourself. |
Posted By: MIAW
Date Posted: 06 November 2019 at 1:23am
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I'm gonna try to be as brief as possible, simply because there are too many interesting thoughts in your posts above, worthy of debate in my opinion. First and foremost, may I say that it's extremely difficult (or challenging if you prefer) to discuss these topics with Atheists, Agnostics...etc... because they have not yet solved the main conundrum, the principal stage (arena), the starting point: Namely...the existence of a God... therefore we have to resort to (tangible) examples from our human futile and erratic everyday lives... (just exercising my 'free speech' as you put it  )
and also from your first post:
We certainly cannot and must not put all religions under the same umbrella here. While the Church (and all its Cardinals and Bishops...etc) prohibited and forbade any free speech and scientific inquiry for many centuries during their 'Dark Ages'... these two (Sciences and free speech/thinking) flourished under Islam. While the church threatened, tortured and even killed (sometimes by burning at the stakes) anyone who experimented with Chemistry, Physics ...etc... it was the advent of Islam that turned mere tribesmen (who were continuously engaged in senseless tribal wars) into scientists, architects, mathematicians, philosophers, astronomers...etc who paved the way for our modern world... in a very short initial period, and then... their civilisation lasted for more than 8 centuries, longer than any civilisation that mankind has ever known before or after (Chinese civilisation did not have as much impact)... Many of their theories are still taught in schools and universities today. Islam is not against Science... it encourages it! Here are some examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world" rel="nofollow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age" rel="nofollow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age I must go... but I'll come back Inshallah, as I have a couple more things to say on the subject. |
Posted By: QasimAttari
Date Posted: 06 November 2019 at 1:53am
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I Think Its Not True ------------- Muhammad Qasim Attari SEO Expert And Islamic Scholar. |
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 06 November 2019 at 2:14am
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MIAW, Thanks for the contribution. Good to exchange ideas freely! My impression of the history of Islam and Islam's golden age of science is that the waring Bedouin tribes that started the Islamic conquest took the advanced places which had been sort of rebelling from their previous rulers or having a cultural/religious revolution from the old orders when the Arab armies turned up and provided a banner/religion to unite all the social tensions aroun, thus an easy conquest. The science of Islam did not happen in the desert. It was the great cities of Mesepotainia (Iraq) and Spain, I think, where it all happened. Then this experimentation was stopped. It was stopped because the powers at the top felt threatened by any change. That is always the case change will cause the present rulers to have to be very clever to stay in power. At least that is my impression from watching lots of documentaries on stuff.
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Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 06 November 2019 at 2:16am
I agee that I cannot be 100% confident that I am at all right. It is just how I see it. Please persuade me that I am wrong and show me the right way of thinking about all this. Truth is far more important than my ego.
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Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 06 November 2019 at 6:19am
Religion is a system that regulates faith (belief) and worship of God and which regulates the relationship between humans and humans and their environment. The example that you gave me does not describe religious life because as far as I have observed that religion can be categorized into two types namely: 1. Celestial Religion 2. Cultural Religion As for the characteristics of Celestial Religion, among others: 1. Religion was not created by humans, but came from Allah (God) 2. Religion did not grow from society, but was passed down to society from Allah who created the universe. Many people consider a particular school of beliefs, spirituality and values to be a religion. But in my opinion it's not necessarily a religion. While the concept of celestial religion is a complete set of teachings that came down from heaven (from Allah). Because celestial religion is also often called the religion of Wahyu (revelation). ,Wahyu is not just supernatural or magical words, but contains laws that govern all order of human life, ranging from the most super micro problems to the super macro. Including mutual respect and help in the goodness and piety of Allah. 3. Spoken by God's chosen people (Prophets / Apostles). Their function and task is to convey all the wishes, orders, rules, sharia, laws from God to humanity. They are not given the authority to create their own teachings. They are human beings not gods, so there is no concept of worship to them. 4. Having a holy book that is clean from the interference of the human mind. 5. The concept of God is absolute monotheism (Tawhid), etc. The characteristics of Cultural Religion include: 1. Its teachings were created, composed and made by humans. 2. Some have books that they consider sacred and some don't. 3. Valid only for tribal groups or for certain groups. 4. Usually have the concept that God is a lot (polytheism), etc. Therefore, the true understanding of religion, in my opinion, is not to order to kill one another unless under threat. You said: "What good thing do you think religion does?" With the right religion, we will get several benefits including: 1. Humans will get guidance from their God so that they can position themselves as God's most perfect creatures. 2. Humans can distinguish between good behavior and bad behavior. 3. Humans will know several events in the past, present, and future. 4. Humans can maintain their dignity as a noble creature created by God. 5. Humans can maintain the soul, heart, and reason in accordance with their fitrah (nature). 6. Humans can feel the existence of their Lord. 7. There are still human beings who will enter His heaven. Etc. |
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 07 November 2019 at 11:18am
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asep garutea, Not sure what your point is there. Mine is that I see the whole advancement of humanity/the Enlightement/science to be dependant upon the freeing of human though from the straight jacket of religion. |
Posted By: MIAW
Date Posted: 07 November 2019 at 12:45pm
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Referring to your boxed quote 'Religion an Society' (post 3 above): (Yourself) Being an atheist, I know that you may not want to hear this... but here it is: Everything we do in our lives should be in accordance with the Will of God. Islam came specifically to guide people away from those kinds of (human-invented) rituals and practices. God put us on this Earth, so it is only fair that He (Alone) Tells us how He Wants us to live, and what we are allowed to do, and what we are not allowed. Similarly: if you invent a machine, then you would provide guidance and instructions about how it should be used, at what speed, how to maintain it in good working order...etc... And that is why, in Islam, we are strictly instructed to follow the guidance of our Creator... because He Knows Us better than we know ourselves. ولله المثل الاعلى In (many verses in) the Qur'an, God (Allah SWT) Addresses the whole of mankind (that is... you, me and every human who has ever existed)... here are some examples: [2:21] O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous - [4:1] O mankind, fear your Lord, who created you from one soul and created from it its mate and dispersed from both of them many men and women. And fear Allah , through whom you ask one another, and the wombs. Indeed Allah is ever, over you, an Observer. [10:23] ... O mankind, your injustice is only against yourselves, [being merely] the enjoyment of worldly life. Then to Us is your return, and We will inform you of what you used to do. [31:33] O mankind, fear your Lord and fear a Day when no father will avail his son, nor will a son avail his father at all. Indeed, the promise of Allah is truth, so let not the worldly life delude you and be not deceived about Allah by the Deceiver.
I agree. My fault for not elaborating. The very first generations of Muslims concentrated on laying down the foundations of the new faith...etc. It was not easy.
Hmmmm...I agree that 'politics and greed ruined the day'... coupled with the fact that too much power and wealth made some rulers succumb to worldly desires (women, partying...etc. same as today).
I totally agree. Best thing you've ever said so far!  |
Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 08 November 2019 at 1:07am
Tim the plumber. What I mean is not religion informs humans instantly, but in the form like intuition, and humans with their knowledge can possibly investigate it. |
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 08 November 2019 at 1:22am
What is not true? I assure you these are my thoughts on the matter. I may be wrong in those thoughts but they are absolutely my thoughts.
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Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 08 November 2019 at 1:41am
1, Thanks for the reply I am trying to get my head around it. One of the reasons I do this sort of thing is to encounter thinking that is different to mine and thus challenge my thinking. I personally like that. Most don't. If you don't like it though stay off the internet as this is the place of free ideas. 2, What is the it that humans are investigating? 3, The method of investigation will inevitably result in different ideas, new ideas, coming along from individuals. That there will inevitably be stuff coming out of it that will threaten old established ideas. How do you square that with an unchanging finished word of God?
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