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A question from a Christian young lady

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Topic: A question from a Christian young lady
Posted By: MIAW
Subject: A question from a Christian young lady
Date Posted: 13 June 2018 at 6:14am

A question from a Christian young lady: Why did this man leave Christianity (Catholicism) for Islam?

Here is the reply (in English):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2nWd2V6MdA" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2nWd2V6MdA



Replies:
Posted By: Al Masihi
Date Posted: 13 June 2018 at 3:22pm
That’s the funniest and saddest videos I’ve ever seen, the Roman Catholic Church didn’t come into the picture until about 600 years after Christ and after many splits with the one true Orthodox Church. Alexander the Great never reached Italy and he most certainly never even went to Rome in his lifetime. The birth date of Jesus was some time in the winter although the date is not specified neither is December 25 the date of the birth of Mithras or Sol Invictus, you may check all historical records on Mithras or Sol Invictus none however show his birth being on December 25. As for images in the Church, if Yusuf Estes was infact a Catholic priest, he’d know God ordered images of the Cherubim to be made in Exodus, so is Moses am idol worshipper? Images in the Church are not graven images because they are to worshipped as gods. The Bible defines graven images as things taken as gods when they are not however both we Orthodox and Catholics recognize them as nothing more then simple objects or representations of real people. If we broke the first and second commandment for doing that, then the Muslims really must have annihilated it with the black stone. Since he mentions the Shahada as the first commandment I’d like to ask a questions to Yusuf Estes and all Muslims, where does The Biblical God reffer to himself as Allah as his personal name, if you don’t have that then you can’t even talk about the first commandment. Catholic converts to Islam sacrifice their lives to convert to Islam, first time I heard that, Catholics don’t murder apostates anymore however converts to Christianity like myself have to face death penalty for conversion to Islam. I’ve seen Imams, Sheikhs, ulema, Hafizis of the Quran, you name it risk their lives for Jesus Christ.


Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 21 June 2018 at 1:51pm
Yeah, 

had a good laugh watching it but after a couple of minutes it became boring.

Airmano


-------------
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")


Posted By: JerryMyers
Date Posted: 25 June 2018 at 7:22am
That’s the funniest and saddest response I’ve ever heard coming from you too. Why ?? Well, let’s see what you said :

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

the Roman Catholic Church didn’t come into the picture until about 600 years after Christ and after many splits with the one true Orthodox Church.


What does this tell us ? It tells us for certain Jesus Christ never started Christianity. In fact, Jesus NEVER knew what is a Christian or what is Christianity for that matter.

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

Alexander the Great never reached Italy and he most certainly never even went to Rome in his lifetime.

So ??

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

The birth date of Jesus was some time in the winter although the date is not specified


The Bible NEVER even indicated that Jesus was born ‘some time in the winter time’. In fact, Luke 2:8 clearly said the shepherds were out in the fields keeping watch of their flocks at the time Jesus was born. Well, shepherds never went out to the fields in winter times. So, who told you Jesus was born ‘some time in the winter time’ ??

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

neither is December 25 the date of the birth of Mithras or Sol Invictus, you may check all historical records on Mithras or Sol Invictus none however show his birth being on December 25.


So said you. Fact is, Christian holidays are mostly influenced by pagans practices and Christmas is no difference – December 25 is highly connected with the sun-god, Mithras’ birth - https://owlcation.com/humanities/The-Pagan-Traditions-and-Elements-Within-Christianity" rel="nofollow - https://owlcation.com/humanities/The-Pagan-Traditions-and-Elements-Within-Christianity
Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

As for images in the Church, if Yusuf Estes was infact a Catholic priest, he’d know God ordered images of the Cherubim to be made in Exodus, so is Moses am idol worshipper?


Cherubim are angels (or angel-like) who worship only the one and only God Almighty and no Christian, as far as I know, ever worship cherubim as God. In other words, graven images of cherubim are not images of God. Question is, don’t the Christians took Jesus as God ?? If so, then, images of Jesus in churches, homes, etc are direct violation of Commandment 1 and 2.

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

Images in the Church are not graven images because they are to worshipped as gods. The Bible defines graven images as things taken as gods when they are not however both we Orthodox and Catholics recognize them as nothing more then simple objects or representations of real people. If we broke the first and second commandment for doing that, then the Muslims really must have annihilated it with the black stone.


If the graven images represent God, then, the Orthodox and Catholic Christians have broken the first and second commandments.
And the Muslims NEVER worship the Black Stone nor does the Black Stone represents God Almighty.

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

Since he mentions the Shahada as the first commandment I’d like to ask a questions to Yusuf Estes and all Muslims, where does The Biblical God reffer to himself as Allah as his personal name, if you don’t have that then you can’t even talk about the first commandment.


You do realize "Allah" just means “THE God", and "elah" means ‘god’ and also the Arabic form of Hebrew/Aramaic "El"/"Eloi"?? In Mark 15:34, Jesus was said to cry out “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” which tells us that in the times of Jesus, ‘god/gods’ in Hebrew/Aramaic is ‘el/eloi’ and THE God, God Almighty is generally referred to as ‘Elohim’ or in the Arabic form, ‘Allah’. This is why Christian Arabs today still call God Almighty, Allah. So, it’s not about ‘where does The Biblical God refer to Himself as Allah as His personal name”, it’s about what language are you calling God Almighty in.

If you understand your Bible, God Almighty is not concern with His personal name and that’s why when Moses asked God Almighty what name should he tell his people if they ask him of Him, God told Moses to tell them that He will be what He will be/I am what I am. In other words, God was telling Moses to tell his people not to be concern over who He is as He is beyond the capability of the human mind to understand but just tell them He will be what He will be/I Am what I Am and that He’s the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Exodus 3:13-15). One thing I can tell you for certain, Jesus Christ is NOT God Almighty.

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

Catholic converts to Islam sacrifice their lives to convert to Islam, first time I heard that, Catholics don’t murder apostates anymore however converts to Christianity like myself have to face death penalty for conversion to Islam. I’ve seen Imams, Sheikhs, ulema, Hafizis of the Quran, you name it risk their lives for Jesus Christ.


Yup, first time too I’ve heard ‘Imams, Sheikhs, ulema, Hafizis of the Quran, you name it risk their lives for Jesus Christ.’ Where have you seen that ???


Posted By: Al Masihi
Date Posted: 25 June 2018 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by JerryMyers JerryMyers wrote:

That’s the funniest and saddest response I’ve ever heard coming from you too. Why ?? Well, let’s see what you said :

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

the Roman Catholic Church didn’t come into the picture until about 600 years after Christ and after many splits with the one true Orthodox Church.


What does this tell us ? It tells us for certain Jesus Christ never started Christianity. In fact, Jesus NEVER knew what is a Christian or what is Christianity for that matter.

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

Alexander the Great never reached Italy and he most certainly never even went to Rome in his lifetime.

So ??

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

The birth date of Jesus was some time in the winter although the date is not specified


The Bible NEVER even indicated that Jesus was born ‘some time in the winter time’. In fact, Luke 2:8 clearly said the shepherds were out in the fields keeping watch of their flocks at the time Jesus was born. Well, shepherds never went out to the fields in winter times. So, who told you Jesus was born ‘some time in the winter time’ ??

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

neither is December 25 the date of the birth of Mithras or Sol Invictus, you may check all historical records on Mithras or Sol Invictus none however show his birth being on December 25.


So said you. Fact is, Christian holidays are mostly influenced by pagans practices and Christmas is no difference – December 25 is highly connected with the sun-god, Mithras’ birth - https://owlcation.com/humanities/The-Pagan-Traditions-and-Elements-Within-Christianity" rel="nofollow - https://owlcation.com/humanities/The-Pagan-Traditions-and-Elements-Within-Christianity
Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

As for images in the Church, if Yusuf Estes was infact a Catholic priest, he’d know God ordered images of the Cherubim to be made in Exodus, so is Moses am idol worshipper?


Cherubim are angels (or angel-like) who worship only the one and only God Almighty and no Christian, as far as I know, ever worship cherubim as God. In other words, graven images of cherubim are not images of God. Question is, don’t the Christians took Jesus as God ?? If so, then, images of Jesus in churches, homes, etc are direct violation of Commandment 1 and 2.

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

Images in the Church are not graven images because they are to worshipped as gods. The Bible defines graven images as things taken as gods when they are not however both we Orthodox and Catholics recognize them as nothing more then simple objects or representations of real people. If we broke the first and second commandment for doing that, then the Muslims really must have annihilated it with the black stone.


If the graven images represent God, then, the Orthodox and Catholic Christians have broken the first and second commandments.
And the Muslims NEVER worship the Black Stone nor does the Black Stone represents God Almighty.

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

Since he mentions the Shahada as the first commandment I’d like to ask a questions to Yusuf Estes and all Muslims, where does The Biblical God reffer to himself as Allah as his personal name, if you don’t have that then you can’t even talk about the first commandment.


You do realize "Allah" just means “THE God", and "elah" means ‘god’ and also the Arabic form of Hebrew/Aramaic "El"/"Eloi"?? In Mark 15:34, Jesus was said to cry out “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” which tells us that in the times of Jesus, ‘god/gods’ in Hebrew/Aramaic is ‘el/eloi’ and THE God, God Almighty is generally referred to as ‘Elohim’ or in the Arabic form, ‘Allah’. This is why Christian Arabs today still call God Almighty, Allah. So, it’s not about ‘where does The Biblical God refer to Himself as Allah as His personal name”, it’s about what language are you calling God Almighty in.

If you understand your Bible, God Almighty is not concern with His personal name and that’s why when Moses asked God Almighty what name should he tell his people if they ask him of Him, God told Moses to tell them that He will be what He will be/I am what I am. In other words, God was telling Moses to tell his people not to be concern over who He is as He is beyond the capability of the human mind to understand but just tell them He will be what He will be/I Am what I Am and that He’s the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Exodus 3:13-15). One thing I can tell you for certain, Jesus Christ is NOT God Almighty.

[QUOTE=Al Masihi]Catholic converts to Islam sacrifice their lives to convert to Islam, first time I heard that, Catholics don’t murder apostates anymore however converts to Christianity like myself have to face death penalty for conversion to Islam. I’ve seen Imams, Sheikhs, ulema, Hafizis of the Quran, you name it risk their lives for Jesus Christ.

I’m middle eastern christian we only call God Allah because of arabization, Eloi is a generic term meaning god like the Arabic term اله. The problem with this argument is that the average low temperature in Bethlehem in December is in the low-to-mid-forties—the same as Jacksonville, Florida. Southern Israel's weather pattern in December is about 50-60 degrees. At night it will get down to about 43-45 degrees. Late December in reality is quite mild and a great opportunity for sheep herders to graze their flocks. The commands says not to make any graven images whether of anything in heaven or on Earth, which would include angels. However understanding the term graven image which is an image meant to be taken above God or as God which isn’t what Catholics or Orthodox do. There is no proof Mithras had any celebration occurring on December 25 occording to scholars of the religion of Mirthaism. Jesus merely called his followers his disciples, Christian means followers of the Messiah as in Arabic مسيحي. So even though Jesus never explicitly called his followers Christians they were always Christians as they were followers of the Messiah and Jesus called them his followers so he knew what was a Christian a follower of the Christos or Masih. Yusuf Estes is a comedian nothing more. As for Imams becoming Christian:

Preachers, Clerics, Scholars and Missionaries[edit]
Dr. Mustafa (now Dr. Mark Gabriel) - Former Muslim Imam, Ex-Professor in Al Azhar University, Cairo, Egypt (Most prestigious Islamic school of theology), and author of several well-known books discussing Islam.
Dr. Muhammed Rahoumy (now Dr. Samuel Paul) - Former Dean in Al Azhar Islamic University in Cairo Egypt.
El-Faqi - Ex-Imam and lawyer.
Hajji Husman Mohamed - Former Ethiopian Muslim Imam.
Hamran Ambrie - Indonesian Ex-Muslim cleric.
Mohammed Amin - Former Ethiopian Islamic cleric.
El-Akkad - Former Muslim preacher from Egypt.
Ak-Beket - Former Imam from Kazakhstan.
Mullah Assad Ullah - Former mullah from Afganistan.
Indonesian Imam who left Islam - Has led 3000 Muslims to Christ.
Fahmir - A Mullah started to preach the Gospel in Afghanistan.
Mischa - Mullah converts and becomes a church planter
Sudanese Muslim Imam - Converts to Christianity.
Rahman - Convert from Kosovo leads Mullah to Christ.
Imam - Decides to follow Christ after seeing Jesus film.
Mosque Teacher - Leaves Islam and launches Christian Radio Ministry.
Dr. Imad ud-Din Lahiz (Rev. Mawlawi) - Was a prolific Islamic Writer, Preacher, Qur'anic Translator.
Khalif Majid Hassan - Former Islamic preacher, and minister in the Nation of Islam.
Jeremiah Fard Muhammad - Muslim minister, now Christian evangelist.
Saleh Hussaini - Former Nigerian Muslim cleric.
Sam Solomon - Former Muslim scholar who trained in Shari'ah law for 15 years.
Yusuf Roni - Former Islamic Dawah Missionary, Islamic Youth Organization Chairman in Indonesia. Now a Christian preacher.
Jamal Zarka - Former Muslim Imam, Now Evangelist
Sheikh Mohamed Mansour - Prominent Egyptian Muslim Sheikh and Islamic Scholar.
Hamza - Former Islamic scholar.
Timothy Abraham - Former Muslim preacher and fundamentalist, now Christian Preacher.
Daniel Shayestah - Former Qur'anic teacher and scholar.
Ahmed Abdullahi - Former Muslim cleric.
Emmanuel (formerly Mohammed) - Former Muslim scholar.
Zak Gariba - Former Muslim Imam.
Mr. Moro S. Franci - Former Imam.
Mario Joseph (Moulvi Sulaiman) - Former Muslim cleric from India.


Posted By: Al Masihi
Date Posted: 25 June 2018 at 1:54pm
The article you posted doesn’t prove Christianity copied anything from paganism. The Virgin Mary and baby Jesus being compared to Isis and Horus is a fallacy since the stories of their pregnancy and birth of their children are completely diffferent. Healing water is common with all religions it doesn’t necessarily mean Christianity copied any of that from Pagan religions. December 25 was never a pagan celebration, even if it was a pagan celebration, the only way to prove Christians copied it from Paganism is if the Bible said he was born on December 25, while his birthday isn’t specifically stated. We Orthodox celebrate his birthday on the month of January.


Posted By: JerryMyers
Date Posted: 13 September 2018 at 9:07am
My apologies, @Al Masihi, for totally missing your last 2 responses to me. I was just browsing thru some old postings and realized I did not respond to these postings of yours. I think we tend to miss some posters’ posting because the forum moderators’ validation for approvals sometimes take too long and by the time they are approved, we have a long list of new posts. Anyway, let’s go thru your comments :

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

I’m middle eastern christian we only call God Allah because of arabization, Eloi is a generic term meaning god like the Arabic term اله. The problem with this argument is that the average low temperature in Bethlehem in December is in the low-to-mid-forties—the same as Jacksonville, Florida. Southern Israel's weather pattern in December is about 50-60 degrees. At night it will get down to about 43-45 degrees. Late December in reality is quite mild and a great opportunity for sheep herders to graze their flocks.


I am quite sure the December temperature in ancient-time Bethlehem or Jacksonville was much, much colder back then than it is today in the 21st Century. I am sure there's no such thing as Global warming back then. It’s long been accepted, even by Biblical scholars, that “this would be an unlikely practice in the month of December, for the weather conditions would be too cold to live outside or tend to a flock of sheep”.
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/The_Pagan_Beliefs_Surrounding_Christmas/The_Date_Jesus_was_Born" rel="nofollow - https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/The_Pagan_Beliefs_Surrounding_Christmas/The_Date_Jesus_was_Born

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

The commands says not to make any graven images whether of anything in heaven or on Earth, which would include angels. However understanding the term graven image which is an image meant to be taken above God or as God which isn’t what Catholics or Orthodox do.


Well, the Command CLEARLY said “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below”, meaning if you make yourself an image of anything/anyone that resembled anything in heaven, earth or sea, you would have sin against God.

Secondly, the Command CLEARLY said “You shall not bow down to them or worship them”, meaning, if do make these images, you should not bow down to them and worship them. If you do, then, you would have sin TWICE against God.

So, even if you said Catholics and Orthodox do not worship or take these images above God, you would still have sin and have gone against God because you have made images that resembled something or someone in heaven, earth or sea.

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

There is no proof Mithras had any celebration occurring on December 25 occording to scholars of the religion of Mirthaism.


You mean, just as there is no proof that Jesus was born December 25, but that don’t stop the Christians from celebrating his birthday on that day. Why ??

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

Jesus merely called his followers his disciples, Christian means followers of the Messiah as in Arabic مسيحي. So even though Jesus never explicitly called his followers Christians they were always Christians as they were followers of the Messiah and Jesus called them his followers so he knew what was a Christian a follower of the Christos or Masih.


Not really. Jesus NEVER KNEW or EVER HEARD OF THE TERM ‘Christian’ in his life and that’s why he NEVER called his followers ‘Christians’. According to the Bible, Christians were those who studied under Paul and Barnabas in Antioch (Acts 11:25-26). So, it was Paul and/or Barnabas who coined up the term ‘Christian’, NOT Jesus.

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

Yusuf Estes is a comedian nothing more.


Hmmm, I do admit Yusuf Estes have a great sense of humor, but, to call him a comedian ?? Well, after reading your postings in this forum, I think you are the real comedian here no less.

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

As for Imams becoming Christian:

Preachers, Clerics, Scholars and Missionaries[edit]
Dr. Mustafa (now Dr. Mark Gabriel) - Former Muslim Imam, Ex-Professor in Al Azhar University, Cairo, Egypt (Most prestigious Islamic school of theology), and author of several well-known books discussing Islam.
Dr. Muhammed Rahoumy (now Dr. Samuel Paul) - Former Dean in Al Azhar Islamic University in Cairo Egypt.
El-Faqi - Ex-Imam and lawyer.
Hajji Husman Mohamed - Former Ethiopian Muslim Imam.
Hamran Ambrie - Indonesian Ex-Muslim cleric.
Mohammed Amin - Former Ethiopian Islamic cleric.
El-Akkad - Former Muslim preacher from Egypt.
Ak-Beket - Former Imam from Kazakhstan.
Mullah Assad Ullah - Former mullah from Afganistan.
Indonesian Imam who left Islam - Has led 3000 Muslims to Christ.
Fahmir - A Mullah started to preach the Gospel in Afghanistan.
Mischa - Mullah converts and becomes a church planter
Sudanese Muslim Imam - Converts to Christianity.
Rahman - Convert from Kosovo leads Mullah to Christ.
Imam - Decides to follow Christ after seeing Jesus film.
Mosque Teacher - Leaves Islam and launches Christian Radio Ministry.
Dr. Imad ud-Din Lahiz (Rev. Mawlawi) - Was a prolific Islamic Writer, Preacher, Qur'anic Translator.
Khalif Majid Hassan - Former Islamic preacher, and minister in the Nation of Islam.
Jeremiah Fard Muhammad - Muslim minister, now Christian evangelist.
Saleh Hussaini - Former Nigerian Muslim cleric.
Sam Solomon - Former Muslim scholar who trained in Shari'ah law for 15 years.
Yusuf Roni - Former Islamic Dawah Missionary, Islamic Youth Organization Chairman in Indonesia. Now a Christian preacher.
Jamal Zarka - Former Muslim Imam, Now Evangelist
Sheikh Mohamed Mansour - Prominent Egyptian Muslim Sheikh and Islamic Scholar.
Hamza - Former Islamic scholar.
Timothy Abraham - Former Muslim preacher and fundamentalist, now Christian Preacher.
Daniel Shayestah - Former Qur'anic teacher and scholar.
Ahmed Abdullahi - Former Muslim cleric.
Emmanuel (formerly Mohammed) - Former Muslim scholar.
Zak Gariba - Former Muslim Imam.
Mr. Moro S. Franci - Former Imam.
Mario Joseph (Moulvi Sulaiman) - Former Muslim cleric from India.


I can bet that these personalities came from a harsh society and thus, they viewed the harshness of their society as a testimony to the faith of that society which they were born into. They can be Imams, Quranic teachers or with other religious tittles, BUT, if your heart is not truly with God Almighty, then, your decisions, your choices will not be guided by the Spirit of God, but will be easily inspired by Satan. It’s the same how today we see popes, priests, clergymen, etc, got involved in sexual crimes – their hearts are not with God too, altho’ their tittles suggest otherwise. I guess that’s why Jesus said “only the one who does the Will of the Father (God Almighty will enter the kingdom of heaven” – Matthew 7:21.

Originally posted by Al Masihi Al Masihi wrote:

The article you posted doesn’t prove Christianity copied anything from paganism. The Virgin Mary and baby Jesus being compared to Isis and Horus is a fallacy since the stories of their pregnancy and birth of their children are completely diffferent. Healing water is common with all religions it doesn’t necessarily mean Christianity copied any of that from Pagan religions. December 25 was never a pagan celebration, even if it was a pagan celebration, the only way to prove Christians copied it from Paganism is if the Bible said he was born on December 25, while his birthday isn’t specifically stated. We Orthodox celebrate his birthday on the month of January.


So, since the date or month of Jesus' birth is not in the Bible, so where does this idea that Jesus was born on December 25 or in the month of January as celebrated by the Orthodox really came from ??


Posted By: Al Masihi
Date Posted: 13 September 2018 at 11:59am
This was only 2000 years ago, the temperature hasn’t changed much since then. Flocks were kept outside during winter since there was no large indoor spaces to keep them in back then. Again you repeat a common allegation made by Protestants, the next verses in exodus shows God telling to make images on the Ark. Also it means Graven images not images of any kind, graven images are images worshipped above God. If this passage were taken in your interpretation God would have contradicted himself in the next few verses by telling Moses to make images on the Ark. As for Pagan origins of Christmas the only way we can prove that is to find mention of a pagan deity that came before Christianity which had its celebration on December 25 so far the pre Christian birthday of Mithras and Sol Invictus has been unknown. Second, although most Christians today celebrate Christ’s birth on December 25, this was not the only date proposed. Biblical scholars tend to have varying opinions so you can’t base a claim based on authority alone. Around A.D. 194, Clement of Alexandria stated Christ was born November 18. Other early proposals included January 10, April 19 or 20, and May 20 (Jack Finegan, Handbook of Biblical Chronology, 2nd ed., §488, §553). By far the most common proposals, however, were January 6 (ibid., §§554–61) and December 25 (ibid., §§562–68). There are also a few answers here:

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/why-december-25" rel="nofollow - https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/why-december-25

Biblical chronologer Jack Finegan writes:

William Hendriksen quotes a letter dated Jan. 16, 1967, received from the New Testament scholar Harry Mulder, then teaching in Beirut, in which the latter tells of being in Shepherd Field at Bethlehem on the just-passed Christmas Eve, and says: “Right near us a few flocks of sheep were nestled. Even the lambs were not lacking. . . . It is therefore definitely not impossible that the Lord Jesus was born in December” [Jack Finnegan, Handbook of Biblical Chronology (2nd ed.), no. 569, quoting Hendriksen, New Testament Commentary: Matthew (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1973), 1:182].


The month of January or December or something along the same lines was something proposed and early adopted by the early Church. Christian literally means follower of the Christ and since the followers of Jesus were called his disciples, Jesus knew what it meant. Further more No one is *absolutely * sure when His birth was. HOWEVER, St. Augustine wrote in the 4th century that the celebration of St. John the Baptist’s birthday (on June 24th) was already a long standing tradition during his time. Then, referencing the beginning of Luke’s Gospel, which states that John the Baptist and Jesus had an age difference of 6 months. As for converts to Christianity from Islam, their reasons for conversion are there own, I was just posting it to prove converts to a religion who had a high title in their previous faiths don’t prove the absolute truth of their new faith.


Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 14 September 2018 at 1:58pm
December 25th a truely great man was born, the man who has done most to transform the world.

1642 Isaac Newton. Founder of physics and the idea that the world is not arbitary in opperation. Initiator of the currency syste of Britian which lead to the growth of the British economy and subsequent spread of it all over the world. Inventor of the reflecting telescope. Invented calculus maths, although in a way that nobody else could understand. Invented the cat flap.


Posted By: asep garut
Date Posted: 16 September 2018 at 7:24pm
As far as I know that December 25 is not the birthday of Prophet Isa (Jesus).

The December 25th celebration comes from the pagan celebrations of Ancient Rome, not Greece (Greek). Jerusalem and its surroundings before and after Prophet Isa (Jesus) was born, the region was under the control of the Roman Empire, and the Romans at that time embraced the pagan religion by worshiping the many gods.

At that time the beliefs of the Romans came from two sources:

1. The ancient Egyptian Osirian tradition.

2. Babylonian magics.

Both of them joined and are now known as Kabbalah. They have special days celebrated every year, including December 25 which is celebrated as the Birth Day of the child of the Sun God or Sol Invictus. Some experts think the term "Son of the Sun God" was also attributed to Namrudz, King of Babylon, who pursued the Prophet Abraham. They believe, this Sun God child was born on Sunday. Because of that they named Sunday as the Day of Sun, and they also worshiped on that day.

Paul II himself announced to his people that Jesus was not actually born on December 25. The date was chosen because it was a mid-winter celebration of the pagans, and many historians have stated that December 25 was actually the date of birth of many pagan gods such as Osiris, Attis, Tammuz, Adonis, Dionisius, and others.

Father Herbert W. Armstrong, a Christian historian who opposed many things about Christmas on December 25. The current belief is built on the basic framework of the Osirian renewal rite in ancient Egypt, including:

1.    Jesus is considered a child of God, this is the same as the belief of the Dionysius cult that had existed centuries before Jesus was born.

2.    Jesus was born in the cage, this is the same as the story of Horus who was born in the temples of Goddess Isis.

3.    Jesus turns water into wine in marriage in Qana, this is what Dionysius did.

4.    Jesus raised people from the dead and healed the blind, this is like God Aesculapius;

5.    Jesus is believed to have risen from the dead on a stone tomb, just like Mithra.

6.    Jesus held the last supper with bread and wine, the ritual of bread and wine was an important symbol in the Osirian tradition, and also almost all pagan rituals that worshiped the Dead God as did the devotees of Dionisius and Tammuz;

7.    Jesus calls himself a good shepherd, this mimics the role of Tammuz, who had been known as a Shepherd God for centuries before;

8.    The term "The Christ" at the beginning of Christianity was written "Christos", often confused with other words in Greek, Chrestos, which means kind or gentle. Some Greek-language gospel manuscripts from the earliest times even used the word Chrestos in a place that was supposed to be written with Christos. People at that time were familiar with Chrestos as one of the nicknames of Isis. An inscription at Delos that says Chreste Isis.

11. In the Gospel of John 12: 24, Jesus said, "If the grain of wheat did not fall to the ground and die, it would still be one seed, but if he died he would produce a lot of fruit." This parable and concept is clearly derived from the Osirian ritual concept;

12. In the Gospel of John 14: 2 Jesus said, "In the house of my father many dwellings." This really comes from Osiris and is copied from the Book of the Dead, the Book of the Dead of Ancient Egypt which is believed to be kept in the city of death, Hamunaptra.

Adam Clarke said:

“It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the field and desert about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the first rain.” (Adam Clarke Commentary, Vol.5, page 370, New York).”

Adam Clarke also said:

“During the time they were out, the sepherds watch them night and day. As…the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in october), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And, as these sepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, our Lord was not born on the 25th of December, when no flock were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were still in the fields by night. On this very ground, the Nativity in December should be given up. The feeding of the flocks by night in the fields is a chronological fact…See the quotation from the Talmudists in Lightfoot.”

In some encyclopedias it says that Jesus was not born on December 25, Catholic Encyclopedia itself explicitly and openly acknowledges this fact.

1. Catholic Encyclopedia 1911 edition chapter "Christmas":

"Christmas is not the first church ceremony, but it is believed to be from Egypt, a celebration held by idol worshipers and fell in January, then made into the birthday of Jesus. In the chapter "Christmas Day": In the scriptures no one held a ceremony or held a celebration to celebrate the birthday of Jesus. "

2. Encyclopedia Britannica 1946 edition:

"Christmas is not a first-century church ceremony. Jesus Christ or his disciples never held it, and the Bible also never recommended it. This ceremony was taken by the church from pagan worshipers. "

3. Encyclopedia Americana 1944 edition:

"According to experts, in the early centuries, Christmas was never celebrated by Christians. In general, Christians only celebrate the day of death of prominent people, and never celebrate the birthday of the person ... The Christmas celebration which is considered to be the day of Jesus' birth began inaugurated in the 4th century AD. In the 5th century AD the Western Church ordered Christians to celebrate the birthday of Jesus, which was taken from the feast day of the Romans celebrating the "Birth of the Sun God". Because no one knows the birthday of Jesus.

4. New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Christmas:

"The customs of the pagan Brumalia and Saturnalia beliefs that have been very familiar in the Roman community were taken by Christians. This celebration is preserved by Christians with little change in spirit and character. Christian priests in the West and in the East opposed the celebration of the birth of Jesus who imitated this pagan religion. In addition, Mesopotamian Christians who accuse Western Christians (Roman Catholics) of adopting a model of worship to the Sun God. "

All of these are only Allah who is knowledgeable about the truth, humans are only told to look for those truths according to the thinking power or wits given by their Lord. Hopefully it will be a reflection for all of us.





Posted By: Al Masihi
Date Posted: 17 September 2018 at 1:52pm
I feel the need to address the many errors in your post, the sources of Roman beliefs came primarily from Ancient Greece and sometimes the Levant not Egypt or Babylonia. Christmas. Dionysus was the son of a women Zeus seduced and raped, and was a seperate god to Zeus, very different from the Christian story of one Person of the Godhead being born to Mary without sexual intercourse of any kind. Dionysus didn’t actuallg turn water into wine either, you may read the myths about him yourself. The story of Jesus raising the dead and healing the blind also happens to be in the Quran, so if we copied that from pagans then you did too. Mithras wasn’t killed and resurrected, you may read the myths about him yourself. Jesus is the good shepherd in the sense he cares for his followers, very different from being the literal god of shepherds and flocks like Tammuz. There are numerous differences between the birth of Horus and Jesus so I wouldn’t even dare to make a comparison.


The word christos means “ointment” or “salve.” That is the only use of the word in ancient Greek texts written before the Septuagint and the New Testament. You can see it, for example, in Aeschylus Prometheus Bound (480) and Euripides Hippolytus (516). In Greek, the word christos was a noun, not an adjective; the Jews were the first to use it as an adjective meaning “one who is anointed” (with an oil, ointment, or salve). The Christians were the first to apply it to a deity. In the Hebrew scriptures, the word meshiyach (“messiah”) means “one who is anointed.” Besides the common usage, the Jews also applied this title to the kings of Israel and Judah by virtue of the fact that they were anointed with oil as a part of the traditional coronation ceremony. You've confused this word with the word chrestos (spelled with a long e), which means “useful.” The Greeks applied this title to both men and gods in order to denote their good quality. There is no good evidence to substantiate this theory other than the fact that christos and chrestos look similar when written in our modern Latin alphabet. In fact, they are not etymologically related. Christian writings refer to Jesus as christos within 20 years of the crucifixion. The word chestos does not appear in the New Testament at all.


As for the rest of your claims of parallels between Jesus and pagan deities, your not giving sources at all, but making assumptions. Here’s also what the Catholic encyclopedia actually says:

https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/christmas" rel="nofollow - https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/christmas

Also you quote commentary from Protestant scholars as if it’s the opinion of Christian scholars, you will also undoubtedly find commentary in the opposite direction, because commentaries are just scholarly opinions not facts.


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 02 October 2018 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:


A question from a Christian young lady: Why did this man leave Christianity (Catholicism) for Islam?

Here is the reply (in English):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2nWd2V6MdA" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2nWd2V6MdA
Yusuf Estes no wonder there was no one who wanted to kill him for apostasy in his church or  his Father and Mother for leaving Christianity and still Yusuf boast about his conversion to Islam


Posted By: 2Acts
Date Posted: 17 October 2018 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by asep garut asep garut wrote:

As far as I know that December 25 is not the birthday of Prophet Isa (Jesus).

The December 25th celebration comes from the pagan celebrations of Ancient Rome, not Greece (Greek). Jerusalem and its surroundings before and after Prophet Isa (Jesus) was born, the region was under the control of the Roman Empire, and the Romans at that time embraced the pagan religion by worshiping the many gods.

At that time the beliefs of the Romans came from two sources:

1. The ancient Egyptian Osirian tradition.

2. Babylonian magics.

Both of them joined and are now known as Kabbalah. They have special days celebrated every year, including December 25 which is celebrated as the Birth Day of the child of the Sun God or Sol Invictus. Some experts think the term "Son of the Sun God" was also attributed to Namrudz, King of Babylon, who pursued the Prophet Abraham. They believe, this Sun God child was born on Sunday. Because of that they named Sunday as the Day of Sun, and they also worshiped on that day.

Paul II himself announced to his people that Jesus was not actually born on December 25. The date was chosen because it was a mid-winter celebration of the pagans, and many historians have stated that December 25 was actually the date of birth of many pagan gods such as Osiris, Attis, Tammuz, Adonis, Dionisius, and others.

Father Herbert W. Armstrong, a Christian historian who opposed many things about Christmas on December 25. The current belief is built on the basic framework of the Osirian renewal rite in ancient Egypt, including:

1.    Jesus is considered a child of God, this is the same as the belief of the Dionysius cult that had existed centuries before Jesus was born.

2.    Jesus was born in the cage, this is the same as the story of Horus who was born in the temples of Goddess Isis.

3.    Jesus turns water into wine in marriage in Qana, this is what Dionysius did.

4.    Jesus raised people from the dead and healed the blind, this is like God Aesculapius;

5.    Jesus is believed to have risen from the dead on a stone tomb, just like Mithra.

6.    Jesus held the last supper with bread and wine, the ritual of bread and wine was an important symbol in the Osirian tradition, and also almost all pagan rituals that worshiped the Dead God as did the devotees of Dionisius and Tammuz;

7.    Jesus calls himself a good shepherd, this mimics the role of Tammuz, who had been known as a Shepherd God for centuries before;

8.    The term "The Christ" at the beginning of Christianity was written "Christos", often confused with other words in Greek, Chrestos, which means kind or gentle. Some Greek-language gospel manuscripts from the earliest times even used the word Chrestos in a place that was supposed to be written with Christos. People at that time were familiar with Chrestos as one of the nicknames of Isis. An inscription at Delos that says Chreste Isis.

11. In the Gospel of John 12: 24, Jesus said, "If the grain of wheat did not fall to the ground and die, it would still be one seed, but if he died he would produce a lot of fruit." This parable and concept is clearly derived from the Osirian ritual concept;

12. In the Gospel of John 14: 2 Jesus said, "In the house of my father many dwellings." This really comes from Osiris and is copied from the Book of the Dead, the Book of the Dead of Ancient Egypt which is believed to be kept in the city of death, Hamunaptra.

Adam Clarke said:

“It was an ancient custom among Jews of those days to send out their sheep to the field and desert about the Passover (early spring), and bring them home at commencement of the first rain.” (Adam Clarke Commentary, Vol.5, page 370, New York).”

Adam Clarke also said:

“During the time they were out, the sepherds watch them night and day. As…the first rain began early in the month of Marchesvan, which answers to part of our October and November (begins sometime in october), we find that the sheep were kept out in the open country during the whole summer. And, as these sepherds had not yet brought home their flocks, it is a presumptive argument that October had not yet commenced, and that, consequently, our Lord was not born on the 25th of December, when no flock were out in the fields; nor could He have been born later than September, as the flocks were still in the fields by night. On this very ground, the Nativity in December should be given up. The feeding of the flocks by night in the fields is a chronological fact…See the quotation from the Talmudists in Lightfoot.”

In some encyclopedias it says that Jesus was not born on December 25, Catholic Encyclopedia itself explicitly and openly acknowledges this fact.

1. Catholic Encyclopedia 1911 edition chapter "Christmas":

"Christmas is not the first church ceremony, but it is believed to be from Egypt, a celebration held by idol worshipers and fell in January, then made into the birthday of Jesus. In the chapter "Christmas Day": In the scriptures no one held a ceremony or held a celebration to celebrate the birthday of Jesus. "

2. Encyclopedia Britannica 1946 edition:

"Christmas is not a first-century church ceremony. Jesus Christ or his disciples never held it, and the Bible also never recommended it. This ceremony was taken by the church from pagan worshipers. "

3. Encyclopedia Americana 1944 edition:

"According to experts, in the early centuries, Christmas was never celebrated by Christians. In general, Christians only celebrate the day of death of prominent people, and never celebrate the birthday of the person ... The Christmas celebration which is considered to be the day of Jesus' birth began inaugurated in the 4th century AD. In the 5th century AD the Western Church ordered Christians to celebrate the birthday of Jesus, which was taken from the feast day of the Romans celebrating the "Birth of the Sun God". Because no one knows the birthday of Jesus.

4. New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Christmas:

"The customs of the pagan Brumalia and Saturnalia beliefs that have been very familiar in the Roman community were taken by Christians. This celebration is preserved by Christians with little change in spirit and character. Christian priests in the West and in the East opposed the celebration of the birth of Jesus who imitated this pagan religion. In addition, Mesopotamian Christians who accuse Western Christians (Roman Catholics) of adopting a model of worship to the Sun God. "

All of these are only Allah who is knowledgeable about the truth, humans are only told to look for those truths according to the thinking power or wits given by their Lord. Hopefully it will be a reflection for all of us.

The Muslim Haj festival is a pagan festival Mohamad adopted. 


Posted By: asep garutea
Date Posted: 24 April 2019 at 1:27am
Hi 2Acts,
Muslim Hajj festival is not a pagan festival adopted by the Prophet Muhammad, but it is God's command that the Prophet Muhammad follow the religion of the monotheism (Tauheed) of the previous Prophets (he did not make his own rules), which included performing Hajj.
Here is the history:
When Prophet Adam had lived on earth, then he followed what the Angels did, namely Tawaf around the Kaaba, and Prophet Adam was the first man to perform the Hajj. The Kaaba was originally built by Angels, then Prophet Adam was ordered to rebuild the Kaaba, as the word of Allah:
" Verily, the first House of worship appointed for mankind was that at Bakkah (Makkah), full of blessing, and a guidance for Al-'Alamin (mankind and jinn)" - (Quran 3: 96).



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