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Ask me anything: Roman Catholic Edition

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Topic: Ask me anything: Roman Catholic Edition
Posted By: Luke6_37
Subject: Ask me anything: Roman Catholic Edition
Date Posted: 08 February 2018 at 8:38pm
Pax Vobiscum! I post frequently on Catholic Answers Forum and came across a delightful topic started by a brave Muslim woman who offered to answer questions about her faith from anyone who might be curious. I thought that was a great idea So here I am to do the same for you. I am not here to convert anyone, just to answer as best I can any questions you may have about the Roman Catholic faith or how it compares to other Christian denominations. To give you some background on myself, my job is to teach young Catholics about their faith, but the church is huge & I am not an expert on every topic. I hope someone out there is curious & look forward to to answering your questions.



Replies:
Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 09 February 2018 at 7:11am
Originally posted by Luke6_37 Luke6_37 wrote:

Pax Vobiscum! I post frequently on Catholic Answers Forum and came across a delightful topic started by a brave Muslim woman who offered to answer questions about her faith from anyone who might be curious. I thought that was a great idea So here I am to do the same for you. I am not here to convert anyone, just to answer as best I can any questions you may have about the Roman Catholic faith or how it compares to other Christian denominations. To give you some background on myself, my job is to teach young Catholics about their faith, but the church is huge & I am not an expert on every topic. I hope someone out there is curious & look forward to to answering your questions.

Do Catholics follow the strict doctrine of Jesus and follow Jesus as their role model and keep and obey all his laws and customs like His Apostles and desciples did?


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 09 February 2018 at 7:25pm
Please explain gospel of Mark ch 16 v 17-18


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 10 February 2018 at 5:12am
Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

Please explain gospel of Mark ch 16 v 17-18


Exactly what it meant: These will the signs who accompany those who believe so if you don not believe in Jesus you will not be able to do those signs.

Paul was bitten by a serpent in Malta while tending a fire, but he flicked it off and was not harmed (Acts 28:1-6). He certainly did not go out of his way looking for dangerous serpents. Indeed, he did not devote entire church services to messing around with a bunch of deadly snakes.


Posted By: Luke6_37
Date Posted: 10 February 2018 at 8:14am
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:


Do Catholics follow the strict doctrine of Jesus and follow Jesus as their role model and keep and obey all his laws and customs like His Apostles and disciples did?


Greetings Peace maker - What a beautiful username you have chosen! "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God." (Mt 5:9)

All Christians believe Jesus is the perfect man and we strive to be like him with respect his love and mercy. Our ultimate goal and purpose in life is to become a saint - a person who is united with Christ in heaven when he or she dies. Only a perfectly sanctified person can be united with Christ for all eternity. We believe it is God's will that all people should be joined to him through Jesus and share in his Divine life (i.e., Zoe). However, HOW that is accomplished is topic in and of itself!

All Christians also believe Jesus is the Divine Word of God. That he is that aspect of God through which all of Creation came into being. As such, he was the authority to create covenants with his chosen people. In the Hebrew scriptures, it is recorded that God made four great covenants with his people. They were with Noah, Abraham, Moses and David. These are collectively known to Christians as the Old Testament (i.e., Old Covenant).

When the Word came to dwell among us as Jesus the King, he fulfilled all of God's promises from the Old Covenants and instituted a New Covenant (i.e. New Testament) with the Ekklēsia he established (i.e., church). This is the covenant Gentile (non-Jewish) Christians follow. According to Paul, for a gentile to follow any other Covenant would be wrong. This was confirmed by the Apostles at the Council of Jerusalem (see Acts 15). Gentile Christians are required to follow the Covenant of Jesus and none other.

Jesus gave us four commandments in the New Covenant. These are:

1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind
2. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
3. Do this in memory of me (i.e., celebrate the Eucharist)
4. Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

All Christians follow these commandments. However, not all Christians attach the same meaning to them. The meaning of the third commandment is a major difference between Catholics and most Protestants.

Jesus also gave us loads and loads of examples in what he said and did to show us how these commandments were to be carried out. However, not even this is an exhaustive list. As time went by, the Magisterium of the Church (i.e., the successors of the Apostles who inherited their teaching authority - that is the bishops and Pope) have had to figure out how apply these commandments to new situations that did not exist before. This is what we call the Sacred Tradition of the Church. It is a sacred deposit of wisdom that has accumulated over the years. The Magisterium, Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are the three pillars of the Catholic Church.

I hope that helps answer your questions!


Posted By: Luke6_37
Date Posted: 10 February 2018 at 8:24am
Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

Please explain gospel of Mark ch 16 v 17-18


I would be happy to answer your question, but it would be helpful if you could clarify what you are asking.

For example, are you asking for an explanation of how Christians understand the doctrine of the Resurrection or are you asking for an explanation of how Catholics in particular approach Scripture passages such as this?

I look forward to hearing from you!


Posted By: Luke6_37
Date Posted: 14 February 2018 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

Please explain gospel of Mark ch 16 v 17-18


Exactly what it meant: These will the signs who accompany those who believe so if you don not believe in Jesus you will not be able to do those signs.

Paul was bitten by a serpent in Malta while tending a fire, but he flicked it off and was not harmed (Acts 28:1-6). He certainly did not go out of his way looking for dangerous serpents. Indeed, he did not devote entire church services to messing around with a bunch of deadly snakes.


That's how I understand it as well. The episode takes place after the Resurrection of Jesus who appears to his disciples and sends them on mission. He promises that as they convert people, miraculous things will start to happen. I assume this is to prove that what the Apostles are preaching is true. There are certainly many reports in the book of Acts of miracles performed by or around Peter or Paul that convert many people, and in his letters, Paul talks about people in his churches receiving special gifts of the Holy Spirit such as speaking in tongues.

It is notable that scholars believe this passage was likely written during the early 2nd century, probably right after the death of the last apostle John, at the end of the Apostolic Age when the churches were already established. I bet the part about the snake is a reference to the story in Acts that you mention.

Miracles such as these continue to happen today - some more frequently than you'd think. Specially trained priests, like the pastor at my church, are exorcists who are called up occasionally to drive out demons from people or places. I asked my pastor about it and he says there are specific signs to test whether you're dealing with a natural or supernatural phenomena. If a person exhibits superhuman strength, aversion to a hidden holy object (like a relic of a saint), or have arcane knowledge (e.g., speaking in a foreign language or secrets they should not know), then its likely supernatural. He won't say any more than that, because the church discourages curiosity in the occult. He says its dangerous and to stay away from it.


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 14 February 2018 at 6:27pm
Originally posted by Luke6_37 Luke6_37 wrote:

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:


Do Catholics follow the strict doctrine of Jesus and follow Jesus as their role model and keep and obey all his laws and customs like His Apostles and disciples did?


Greetings Peace maker - What a beautiful username you have chosen! "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God." (Mt 5:9)

All Christians believe Jesus is the perfect man and we strive to be like him with respect his love and mercy. Our ultimate goal and purpose in life is to become a saint - a person who is united with Christ in heaven when he or she dies. Only a perfectly sanctified person can be united with Christ for all eternity. We believe it is God's will that all people should be joined to him through Jesus and share in his Divine life (i.e., Zoe). However, HOW that is accomplished is topic in and of itself!

All Christians also believe Jesus is the Divine Word of God. That he is that aspect of God through which all of Creation came into being. As such, he was the authority to create covenants with his chosen people. In the Hebrew scriptures, it is recorded that God made four great covenants with his people. They were with Noah, Abraham, Moses and David. These are collectively known to Christians as the Old Testament (i.e., Old Covenant).

When the Word came to dwell among us as Jesus the King, he fulfilled all of God's promises from the Old Covenants and instituted a New Covenant (i.e. New Testament) with the Ekklēsia he established (i.e., church). This is the covenant Gentile (non-Jewish) Christians follow. According to Paul, for a gentile to follow any other Covenant would be wrong. This was confirmed by the Apostles at the Council of Jerusalem (see Acts 15). Gentile Christians are required to follow the Covenant of Jesus and none other.

Jesus gave us four commandments in the New Covenant. These are:

1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind
2. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
3. Do this in memory of me (i.e., celebrate the Eucharist)
4. Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

All Christians follow these commandments. However, not all Christians attach the same meaning to them. The meaning of the third commandment is a major difference between Catholics and most Protestants.

Jesus also gave us loads and loads of examples in what he said and did to show us how these commandments were to be carried out. However, not even this is an exhaustive list. As time went by, the Magisterium of the Church (i.e., the successors of the Apostles who inherited their teaching authority - that is the bishops and Pope) have had to figure out how apply these commandments to new situations that did not exist before. This is what we call the Sacred Tradition of the Church. It is a sacred deposit of wisdom that has accumulated over the years. The Magisterium, Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are the three pillars of the Catholic Church.

I hope that helps answer your questions!


We must seek the wisdom of God and not the wisdom of this world which is foolishness and will bring us no where.
The Churches went and seek their own wisdom and moved away from God's wisdom they set up their rules and regulations in the churches and fail to place God's rules in place and follow His laws and rules.

1 Corinthians 1:18-2:16

Christ the power and wisdom of GOD.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

For it is written:

I will destroy wisdom of the wise,And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Where is the wise?Where is the scribe?Where is the disputer of this age?Has not God mad foolish the wisdom of this world?For since,in the wisdom of God,the world through wisdom did not know God,it pleased God through foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

For Jews request a sign and Greeks seek after wisdom;but we preach Christ crucified,to the Jews a stumbling block and the Greeks foolishness,but to those who are called,both Jews and Greeks,Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men,and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Christ Crucified

2 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. 2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. 4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

Spiritual Wisdom

6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written:


�Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.�

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man�s wisdom teaches but which the Holy[g] Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For �who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?� But we have the mind of Christ.

We study the scriptures but wisdom came from God through Christ and the Holy spirit and not the wisdom fo this world.


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 14 February 2018 at 7:05pm
I believe in Jesus Christ(Pbuh)and it's a part of my faith but I believe he is our prophet,so according to this verse I would be not harmed if I am poisoned so my simple question is please explain directly this verse to me!!!


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 15 February 2018 at 11:56am
Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

I believe in Jesus Christ(Pbuh)and it's a part of my faith but I believe he is our prophet,so according to this verse I would be not harmed if I am poisoned so my simple question is please explain directly this verse to me!!!


You are a not folower of Jesus so if you are poisoned you will die its the law nature God's law you do not put faith in God through Jesus you do not believe God have a Son.


Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 16 February 2018 at 11:41pm
@Luke

One of the major points our Muslim friends get excited about is trinity.

Would you be able to lay down in a couple of words (and preferably without too many bible citations) a concise definition of "Trinity" ?

Are you actually aware, that at the beginning of Christianity, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism - Arianism - much closer to the Muslim point of view - was the predominant line in Europe ?


Thanx: Airmano

-------------
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")


Posted By: Luke6_37
Date Posted: 17 February 2018 at 8:37am
Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

I believe in Jesus Christ(Pbuh)and it's a part of my faith but I believe he is our prophet,so according to this verse I would be not harmed if I am poisoned so my simple question is please explain directly this verse to me!!!


This verse does not claim to offer protection to ALL who believe. It simply says that certain signs will accompany those who believe - meaning some among the believers will receive these gifts and miracles as a sign to others of the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It doesn't say everyone who believes in Jesus Christ will receive them. Therefore, it is best not to test it!

In a more general sense, it sounds like you are wondering whether a Muslim, who believes Jesus Christ is a prophet, would also receive the graces that are promised in scripture to those who believe Jesus Christ is the Divine Word of God.

Some Christians (like Peace Maker) would say NO, scripture clearly states that in order to receive the gift of God's grace and eternal life, you must believe that Jesus is 1) the Divine Word of God, 2) who died on the cross for our sins and 3) was raised from the dead.

Roman Catholics think a bit differently about this. We believe that those who believe Jesus is 1) the Divine Word of God, 2) who died on the cross for our sins and 3) was raised from the dead, will receive God's grace and eternal life. This is the Gospel of Jesus Christ in a nutshell. However, Catholics also believe that God does what He wills. Therefore, if God wants to give the gift of grace and eternal life to someone who does not believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then that is what will happen. Muslims are top on the list of those who are likely to receive such grace.

Quote The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day. - Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 841


Here is a story to help explain what I mean:

Imagine you are standing at the edge of a frozen river covered in a deep fog and you need to cross over in order to be forever safe for all eternity with God. You can try to cross on your own and you might make it if God chooses to guide you. However, right next to you is a bridge that Jesus has built that offers a sure Way across the river. You can either put your faith in Jesus and take the sure Way, or attempt the treacherous crossing on your own.

Roman Catholics believe that the bridge in the story is the Catholic Church that Jesus said he would build in Matthew 16:18.


Posted By: Luke6_37
Date Posted: 17 February 2018 at 10:23am
Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:


We must seek the wisdom of God and not the wisdom of this world which is foolishness and will bring us no where.


Absolutely!

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

The Churches went and seek their own wisdom and moved away from God's wisdom they set up their rules and regulations in the churches and fail to place God's rules in place and follow His laws and rules.


When interpreting Paul's words, do not forget to do so in light of what Jesus himself taught us.

Jesus said he would build a Church that would endure and that is what he did.

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." - Matthew 16:18

The Catholic Church has certainly had its ups and downs. It is made up of human beings, like you and me, who are weak and imperfect. The only reason it has not failed is because the Holy Spirit has always been there to guide it. The Church Christ founded has endured for 2,000 years and will continue to endure until he returns at the end of time.

Throughout the ages, the Catholic Church has continued to grow in wisdom and understanding of Divine Revelation - exactly as Jesus said it would. (John 16: 12-13) The 16th century reformers did much to realign the Church and at the Council of Trent their arguments were taken under serious consideration. What was good was retained and what was bad was rejected.

Originally posted by Peace maker Peace maker wrote:

We study the scriptures but wisdom came from God through Christ and the Holy spirit and not the wisdom of this world.


That's right. Wisdom comes through Christ and the Holy Spirit, but not to the individual. Christ established a Church that would represent the Kingdom of God, which is not of this world (John 18:36). This is the Church that gave us the scriptures - including the letters of Paul. Christ sent Paul to establish his Church among the gentiles, but these churches were united under the authority of the Apostles (Acts 15). They were responsible for producing the 27 books of the New Testament that all orthodox Christians use for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

Do not forget that Jesus wants all who believe in him to be united so that we may witness the truth of the Gospel to the world (John 17:20-23). If you truly wish to do as Christ wills, you cannot do so on your own, but must be in communion with his Church.


Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 18 February 2018 at 4:04am
I had seen so many Christians died of snake poisoning,Allah is the only one to be worshipped because Allah is one he is eternal he is neither born nor give birth there is nothing like him.
﴿سورة البقرة ٢٥٥﴾ اللَّهُ لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ الْحَيُّ الْقَيُّومُ ۚ لَا تَأْخُذُهُ سِنَةٌ وَلَا نَوْمٌ ۚ لَهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ ۗ مَنْ ذَا الَّذِي يَشْفَعُ عِنْدَهُ إِلَّا بِإِذْنِهِ ۚ يَعْلَمُ مَا بَيْنَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَمَا خَلْفَهُمْ ۖ وَلَا يُحِيطُونَ بِشَيْءٍ مِنْ عِلْمِهِ إِلَّا بِمَا شَاءَ ۚ وَسِعَ كُرْسِيُّهُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ ۖ وَلَا يَئُودُهُ حِفْظُهُمَا ۚ وَهُوَ الْعَلِيُّ الْعَظِيمُ

[Quran 2:255] Allah! There is no god except He, the Living, the Everlasting. Neither slumber overtakes Him, nor sleep. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His permission? He knows what is before them, and what is behind them; and they cannot grasp any of His knowledge, except as He wills. His Throne extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation does not burden Him. He is the Most High, the Great.

https://goo.gl/k3Q5pV


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 19 February 2018 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

I had seen so many Christians died of snake poisoning,Allah is the only one to be worshipped because Allah is one he is eternal he is neither born nor give birth there is nothing like him.
﴿سورة البقرة ٢٥٥﴾ اللَّهُ لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا هُوَ الْحَيُّ الْقَيُّومُ ۚ لَا تَأْخُذُهُ سِنَةٌ وَلَا نَوْمٌ ۚ لَهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ ۗ مَنْ ذَا الَّذِي يَشْفَعُ عِنْدَهُ إِلَّا بِإِذْنِهِ ۚ يَعْلَمُ مَا بَيْنَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَمَا خَلْفَهُمْ ۖ وَلَا يُحِيطُونَ بِشَيْءٍ مِنْ عِلْمِهِ إِلَّا بِمَا شَاءَ ۚ وَسِعَ كُرْسِيُّهُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ ۖ وَلَا يَئُودُهُ حِفْظُهُمَا ۚ وَهُوَ الْعَلِيُّ الْعَظِيمُ

[Quran 2:255] Allah! There is no god except He, the Living, the Everlasting. Neither slumber overtakes Him, nor sleep. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His permission? He knows what is before them, and what is behind them; and they cannot grasp any of His knowledge, except as He wills. His Throne extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation does not burden Him. He is the Most High, the Great.

https://goo.gl/k3Q5pV


What type of Christians faithless you seen many where?

Do all religions lead to God? No. All people�religious or otherwise�will stand before God some day (Hebrews 9:27), but religious affiliation is not what determines your eternal destiny. Only faith in Jesus Christ will save. �Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life� (1 John 5:12). It�s as simple as that. Only Christianity�faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ�leads to God�s forgiveness and eternal life. No one comes to the Father except through the Son (John 14:6). It does make a difference what you believe. The decision to embrace the truth about Jesus Christ is important. Eternity is an awfully long time to be wrong.


Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 03 March 2018 at 11:42am
@Luke

Any news on the trinity ?


Airmano


-------------
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")


Posted By: ovibos
Date Posted: 11 March 2018 at 9:27pm
I'm just curious, I don't have any intention to argue or whatsoever,

1. About the Ten Commandments: Why does the Roman Catholic combine the first and the second commandment (of the Protestant version) into one commandment, but then break down the tenth commandment (of the Protestant version) into two different commandments? (by the way, in my opinion, You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.” seems to be one commandment, not two.

2. which OT version do you think is more reliable: the Septuagint or Masoretic Text?

3. Do you believe that there is salvation outside the Roman Catholic, e.g. Eastern Orthodox Church, Protestantism, Judaism, Islam?

4. What do you think of same-sex marriage? Are you pro or against it, and why?




Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 14 March 2018 at 9:51pm
Peacemaker once again I repeat God cannot have son, because Allah is creator he is not in the need of means,in fact he is the source of all means,he does what he intends to do,once again I repeat Allah is one he is eternal he is neither born nor give birth there is nothing like him.


Posted By: Luke6_37
Date Posted: 19 March 2018 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

@Luke

One of the major points our Muslim friends get excited about is trinity.

Would you be able to lay down in a couple of words (and preferably without too many bible citations) a concise definition of "Trinity" ?

Are you actually aware, that at the beginning of Christianity, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism" rel="nofollow - Arianism - much closer to the Muslim point of view - was the predominant line in Europe ?


Thanx: Airmano

Arianism is nothing like the Muslim point of view - if anything, this heresy is closer to the Christological heresy the Qu'ran condemns. It was never accepted by orthodox Christians and clearly condemned by the Roman Catholic Church at the councils of Nicaea (325 AD) and Constantinople (381 AD)

Arius taught that the Logos was the first creation of YHWH in eternity past. This would make Christ a separate divine being, which violates the first article of faith that defines all three Abrahamic religions - that the Lord, our God is One. 

The Qur'an never directly refutes the doctrine of the Trinity. It appears to not even be aware of how it is dogmatically defined. The Qur'an refutes a belief in three divine beings: Father, Son and Mary. It also states that Jesus (despite his miraculous birth and sinless nature) was no more than a human prophet. Roman Catholics agree with the Qur'an that there is only one divine being, but there is no reason for us to accept it's claim that Jesus was merely a prophet. Everything that has been handed down directly to us from the first century by Scripture and Tradition supports the Christian doctrines of the Incarnation, Crucifixion and Resurrection.  The Qur'an coming out of left field to make other claims is simply not convincing in the least.

The Trinity is dogmatically defined as the one BEING of God shared by three distinct PERSONS: Source (Father), Logos (Son) & Pneuma (Holy Spirit).  I explain it to children like this, a rock is not like a human in the same way that a human is not like God. A rock has being, but no person. A human has being, and one person. God has being, and three persons.  Since we are talking about three different types of being, it makes no sense to insist they should all be the same with respect to person. 




Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 19 March 2018 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

Peacemaker once again I repeat God cannot have son, because Allah is creator he is not in the need of means,in fact he is the source of all means,he does what he intends to do,once again I repeat Allah is one he is eternal he is neither born nor give birth there is nothing like him.
Why can't He? God said what is impossible for humans is possible for God so you asume it is impossible for God to have a son why can't He a son are humans more privelaged than God?
 
The Quran is misleading you our Bible tells us the truth.
 
The title Son of God does not mean Jesus was literally born from God.The Bible does not teach a physical relationship between God and Mary,as Muslims sometimes charge.At the birth of Jesus,th angel told the virgin Mary:
 
Luke 1:30:35.
 
Do not be afraid,Mary, for you have found favour with God.And behold,you wil concieve in your womb and bear a son,and you shal call his name Jesus.He wil be great and will be called the Son of the Most High.
And of His kingdom there will be no end so His kingdom will be eternal.
 
Hebrews 1:8
But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
 
Revelation 11:15.
 
Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever."
 
God cannot or will not NABA is this your view of a almighty God who cannot?


Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 19 March 2018 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

Peacemaker once again I repeat God cannot have son, because Allah is creator he is not in the need of means,in fact he is the source of all means,he does what he intends to do,once again I repeat Allah is one he is eternal he is neither born nor give birth there is nothing like him.
 
Hebrews 1:1-3
 
Previously, God had spoken to man through His prophets, but then He sent His own Son: “In the past God spoke to our forefathers by the prophets at many times and in various ways. But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son whom He has appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being, sustaining all things by His powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven”
 
This means in the past God has spoken to their forefaththers by means of prophets then in the last days He spoken to us by by His Son so everyone who decleared himself as a prophet after Jesus was false there was cannot be any prophet be after Jesus anymore end of story case closed and the rest is just a waste of time.


Posted By: Luke6_37
Date Posted: 19 March 2018 at 6:07pm
Originally posted by ovibos ovibos wrote:

I'm just curious, I don't have any intention to argue or whatsoever,

1. About the Ten Commandments: Why does the Roman Catholic combine the first and the second commandment (of the Protestant version) into one commandment, but then break down the tenth commandment (of the Protestant version) into two different commandments? (by the way, in my opinion, <span style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">“</span><span style="font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that your neighbor’s.” seems to be one commandment, not two.</span>

2. which OT version do you think is more reliable: the Septuagint or Masoretic Text?

3. Do you believe that there is salvation outside the Roman Catholic, e.g. Eastern Orthodox Church, Protestantism, Judaism, Islam?

4. What do you think of same-sex marriage? Are you pro or against it, and why?




1. About the Commandments - Scripture states that they are a Decalogue, but does not explicitly number them, so there is only Tradition to rely upon for how to count them. Catholics believe that Saint Augustine rightly included the prohibition on creating graven images as part of, not separate from, the first commandment against any form of idolotry. It could not have meant a blanket prohibition on the creation of statues or images in general, because then God would have violated his own law by instructing the Israelites to place the images of two cherubim on the lid of the Ark of the Covenant. The numbering of the other Commandments then follows from that.

2. The Septuigint is far older (1,000 years) than the Masoretic text, and Greek is a better language for writing, because it contains vowels. Having said that, I think that where the two texts disagree about a word or phrase, a Biblical scholar would have other sources to consult - such as the Aramaic Targums, the Dead Sea Scrolls & the Latin Vulgate in order to resolve the issue. So it really isn't an issue of deciding just between the two.

3. Salvation means to be liberated from slavery. Moses brought salvation to the Israelites by liberating them from slavery in Egypt. By dying on the cross, Jesus brought salvation to all the nations by liberating all of humanity from slavery to sin and death. This is a gift (a.k.a., grace) offered to everyone - no strings attached. Once you accept it you are part of the Church. The Sacraments are outward physical signs of having received this grace, but God is not constrained by the Sacraments and bestows His grace where he pleases. You may not realize this while you are alive, but if you truly love God & love your neighbor you are saved, regardless of what religion you profess.

4) Matrimony is one of the seven sacraments in the Catholic Church. It restores the unity of the original Adam, before God split him into male and female, so that the procreative aspect of humanity can be unleashed. This is impossible with two people of the same gender. So while a same sex relationship may have a unitive function, it is not by definition a marriage, because there is no procreative aspect to it. I believe that same sex unions are a thing - and sometimes even a good thing, but they are not a marriage. Legally, however, it's easier to simply classify them as marriages and I don't see any reason to oppose that.


Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 19 March 2018 at 7:05pm
For a detailed explanation of Catholic thought, see http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01658a.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01658a.htm

Thorough and accepted explanations of RC theology.


-------------
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.


Posted By: Luke6_37
Date Posted: 19 March 2018 at 7:35pm
Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

Peacemaker once again I repeat God cannot have son, because Allah is creator he is not in the need of means,in fact he is the source of all means,he does what he intends to do,once again I repeat Allah is one he is eternal he is neither born nor give birth there is nothing like him.


I am not sure what you mean by "in the need of means". Are you saying that as one eternal being, God cannot be the source of himself? The Father/Son metaphor for the relationship between the Creator (Source) and Logos (Word) is just a convention that made sense to early Christians, because it was a great way to describe someone who wasn't the same person as the Creator, but who had all the power & authority of God and did things only God could do. However, if this analogy gets in the way of your understanding of the relationship between the Creator (Father) & Logos (Word), think of it like the relationship between Allah & the Qu'ran if the Qu'ran was expressed in body language rather than Arabic, and could walk among us, healing the sick and feeding the hungry, etc.


Posted By: ovibos
Date Posted: 19 March 2018 at 11:08pm
Thanks four your answers

Originally posted by Luke6_37 Luke6_37 wrote:



1. About the Commandments - Scripture states that they are a Decalogue, but does not explicitly number them, so there is only Tradition to rely upon for how to count them. Catholics believe that Saint Augustine rightly included the prohibition on creating graven images as part of, not separate from, the first commandment against any form of idolotry. It could not have meant a blanket prohibition on the creation of statues or images in general, because then God would have violated his own law by instructing the Israelites to place the images of two cherubim on the lid of the Ark of the Covenant.
I can accept that

Originally posted by Luke6_37 Luke6_37 wrote:



2. The Septuigint is far older (1,000 years) than the Masoretic text, and Greek is a better language for writing, because it contains vowels. Having said that, I think that where the two texts disagree about a word or phrase, a Biblical scholar would have other sources to consult - such as the Aramaic Targums, the Dead Sea Scrolls & the Latin Vulgate in order to resolve the issue. So it really isn't an issue of deciding just between the two.

I'm just curious, when was Adam created according to the Bible, was it 4000 BC or 5500 BC? But it's not that very important, really


Originally posted by Luke6_37 Luke6_37 wrote:


3. You may not realize this while you are alive, but if you truly love God & love your neighbor you are saved, regardless of what religion you profess.
I love this

Originally posted by Luke6_37 Luke6_37 wrote:


4) Matrimony is one of the seven sacraments in the Catholic Church. It restores the unity of the original Adam, before God split him into male and female, so that the procreative aspect of humanity can be unleashed. This is impossible with two people of the same gender. So while a same sex relationship may have a unitive function, it is not by definition a marriage, because there is no procreative aspect to it. I believe that same sex unions are a thing - and sometimes even a good thing, but they are not a marriage. Legally, however, it's easier to simply classify them as marriages and I don't see any reason to oppose that.
Shouldn't you be afraid that God will punish the people/nations that legalize same-sex "marriage" like He destroyed the people of Sodom and Gomorrah?


Posted By: ovibos
Date Posted: 20 March 2018 at 12:54am
Originally posted by Luke6_37 Luke6_37 wrote:


The Qur'an never directly refutes the doctrine of the Trinity. It appears to not even be aware of how it is dogmatically defined. The Qur'an refutes a belief in three divine beings: Father, Son and Mary. It also states that Jesus (despite his miraculous birth and sinless nature) was no more than a human prophet. Roman Catholics agree with the Qur'an that there is only one divine being, but there is no reason for us to accept it's claim that Jesus was merely a prophet. Everything that has been handed down directly to us from the first century by Scripture and Tradition supports the Christian doctrines of the Incarnation, Crucifixion and Resurrection.  The Qur'an coming out of left field to make other claims is simply not convincing in the least.


On the contrary, the Quran refutes the doctrine of Trinity (Q 5:72,73, 4:171)

In my understanding, ilah (ﺇﻟﻪ ) in Islam, which usually translated as god, has very broad meaning.
If you love someone or something more than you love God, then he/she/it will be your ilah/god.
If you pray to or through someone (e.g. pray to/through Mary) other than God himself, then you have ilah/god besides God.
If you say something like, "Because of this dog, the thief could not break into my house yesterday", then you commit idolatry (shirk)

The Quran never states that Mary is part of Trinity. 
The Quran simply states that (some) Christians worship Mary as god besides God.
In Islam, if you think that Mary is the mother of God, then it will be considered as idolatry 
If you pray to Mother Mary and ask salvation from her, then you worship her or having her as god besides God
That also applies to prophet Muhammad. Whoever prays to Muhammad and or ask him for salvation or something like that, then he/she worships Muhammad besides Allah.


Posted By: Luke6_37
Date Posted: 24 March 2018 at 9:18am
Originally posted by ovibos ovibos wrote:

Originally posted by Luke6_37 Luke6_37 wrote:


The Qur'an never directly refutes the doctrine of the Trinity. It appears to not even be aware of how it is dogmatically defined. The Qur'an refutes a belief in three divine beings: Father, Son and Mary. It also states that Jesus (despite his miraculous birth and sinless nature) was no more than a human prophet. Roman Catholics agree with the Qur'an that there is only one divine being, but there is no reason for us to accept it's claim that Jesus was merely a prophet. Everything that has been handed down directly to us from the first century by Scripture and Tradition supports the Christian doctrines of the Incarnation, Crucifixion and Resurrection.  The Qur'an coming out of left field to make other claims is simply not convincing in the least.


On the contrary, the Quran refutes the doctrine of Trinity (Q 5:72,73, 4:171)

In my understanding, ilah (<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif; font-size: 12pt;">ﺇﻟﻪ</span> ) in Islam, which usually translated as god, has very broad meaning.
If you love someone or something more than you love God, then he/she/it will be your ilah/god.
If you pray to or through someone (e.g. pray to/through Mary) other than God himself, then you have ilah/god besides God.
If you say something like, "Because of this dog, the thief could not break into my house yesterday", then you commit idolatry (shirk)

The Quran never states that Mary is part of Trinity. 
The Quran simply states that (some) Christians worship Mary as god besides God.
In Islam, if you think that Mary is the mother of God, then it will be considered as idolatry 
If you pray to Mother Mary and ask salvation from her, then you worship her or having her as god besides God
That also applies to prophet Muhammad. Whoever prays to Muhammad and or ask him for salvation or something like that, then he/she worships Muhammad besides Allah.



I cannot personally comment on what the Qur'an itself has to say about not worshiping "three" but every Christian scholar of Islam whose work I have read states unequivocally that the actual doctrine of the Trinity does not appear anywhere in the Qur'an.

So either the Qur'an is unaware of what the actual doctrine states, or it is warning against some other heretical understanding of Jesus, such as Docetism or Arianism.

When it comes to prayer itself, that is also an interesting concept to explore. Catholics make a distinction between prayer and worship. Prayer is just mentally communicating with someone who is spiritually, but not physically present. It can be a formal type of communication, like a get well card, or an informal type of communication, like a personal letter you write to a friend. Prayer can be a part of worship, but it is not worship itself. There are some standard prayers all Catholics learn, so that we can pray together as community, but just keeping up a steady stream of consciousness directed towards God is prayer too.

When Catholics mentally communicate with Mary & the Saints, we believe they can hear us, because they have been incorporated into the mystical body of Christ. They are literally plugged into God and so can hear our prayers by His power, not their own. Since they are not dead, but transformed, they can still act in our world or add their prayers & petitions to ours.




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