http://207.44.245.159/article11079.htm - and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

He was fighting for something he believed in?

Not being paid for it by some lying admin?

You do seem to be the born motherless type with your mockery of the most sacred things on this earth, MOTHERHOOD. No wonder you take a piece of cloth with a few stars and stripes on it as your mother and father.

He was fighting for something he believed in?

Absolutely!  the US military is all volunteers. If this guy had a problem with going over there it wouldn't be easy to get out of, But it would be possible. whatever the mission our service men and women will do their duty. In this case go where they are sent. And make no distinction about politics. The president said go, they go period! If you think American troops don't believe in what they are doing .....your very wrong! And you know what??? My mother respects me and the decisions I make. And if I had died in gulf war 1, she would not have betrayed my memory by belittling my decision to serve my country and what I died for! Thomas Paine said" I regret that I only have 1 life to give for my country."

Your poor mother is extremely wise, she knows what can't be cured must be endured. A very old dictum!

But they believe in themselves.

Yes, I know, all idiots anywhere in our world specialise in believing just in themselves! And, never anything else.

But they believe in themselves.

Yes, I know, all idiots anywhere in our world specialize in believing just in themselves! And, never anything else.

Funny could have sworn my post said more after that one sentence. Whats wrong couldn't find any thing that sounded too far fetched in the rest of the post? Do you believe  that people cannot believe in themselves to to point that they consider their decisions to be good ones? well thought out? You sure have to think it out when your going to join in the first place.

Is self prais ever any recommendtion? I use my several degrees and other qualifications for serving humanity not some piece of cloth. I have met a lot of your generals, first hand, face to face, I wish even one impressed.

All of them were dying to enlist us in their favour. If one had any class, we would have at least considered their offers.

All sounded quite a bit like you!

Simple. Some animals do have better sense than a man who challenges a mother's sacred right to mourn a murdered son.

Such animals don't believe in anything, they just bark and A T T A C K. 

Simple. When a man Some animals do have better sense than a man who challenges a mother's sacred right to mourn a murdered son.

Such animals don't believe in anything, they just bark and A T T A C K. 

Theres a difference between mourning him and dishonoring him.Is this woman really mourning her son ? Sure and she has the right of course. But what this woman is doing is belittling her sons efforts to make some political statement. Americans love their country and our way of life. We believe in this way of life and we will ATTACK anyone who we feel is a threat to our way of life. Is that too complicated for you to comprehend? It was too complicated for OBL and the Taliban.

what do Muslims care how you live, get out of our countries and stop interfering in our way of life.

and before you even think of writing it, the west props up these dictators don't apose the people and we will rid our self of them.

You have to admit this IS funny coming from a Muslim living in a western country. By the way your freedom you enjoy now in Australia was paid for with American blood. It was the mighty US Navy that sank the Japanese invasion fleet of 100,000 troops bound for Australia if you don't believe that look up the battle of Coral Sea. Isn't it nice to know YOUR very freedom came from America....Im not going to deny that the US has been allied with some shady leaders in the mid-east. but really name me some of those leaders that were great without being aligned with the west? And if you were in the shoes of the British and Americans after WWII, and you had to find a place for 26 million Jews displaced by the war where would you put them? They put them where even the Koran said they came from. If you don't believe that Abraham was a JEW! and when all the Muslim countries around them swear to destroy them yes we will defend them. And yes sometimes the locals do rise up and depose their leader(like the shah) but cmon do yo really think the iraqis would have done the same to saddam? Not a chance.

Are you some robot or jus find it difficult to understand plain simple English? Rami's post read:

what do Muslims care how you live, get out of our countries and stop interfering in our way of life.
Period, as they say in your country.

Or, is it that you don't now what you are replying to?

There are many soldiers who were in places like Vietnam who did the honorable thing by following their leaders into a war that they realized too late that it was not right.

Most people are brainwashed here to agree with the government no matter what it does. To go against it, is to difficult for people.  We are raised in a world that say to question is to be 'unpatriotic'. There are no doubt people who went to Iraq with that patriotic fever who question it now. But will not do so publicly or risked being called a traitor.

The US went to war because George Bush did not like Saddam Hussein. The leaders of the current government are extremely adept at changing their story and manipulating the information.  We were to go in to get rid of WMD. When they weren't found it was to get 'free the Iraqi' people.  Considering people know nothing about the Middle East or those in the State Department were ignored I distrust that they really care about the average Iraqi.

You have to admit this IS funny coming from a Muslim living in a western country. By the way your freedom you enjoy now in Australia was paid for with American blood.

What happened 50-60 years ago around WWII was a different era, and the fact that the world was at war. It was global.  The war in the Pacific was between two Imperialist nations-US and Japan. (For after Spain left the Philippines the US took over.) The US has certain good points, just like every place. But to think it has not been imperialist is foolish.

Frankly if we really cared about people and want to help maybe we should go and �free� the billion people under communist rule in China. They make Saddam look like small potatoes.  

And if you were in the shoes of the British and Americans after WWII, and you had to find a place for 26 million Jews displaced by the war where would you put them? 

Well in Europe please. To create a false-boundary nation-state in an area that was not theirs to decide then no they should not have put it there. As we are proponents of freedom and democracy it is not like we let the people who were there to vote on it. Where was are decency and respect given then? Frankly, not that European Jews may have wanted it, they should have been given Germany. To take land from those living in the Middle East was making them pay the price for what happened, not Germany. The Germans should have lost their land.

And yes sometimes the locals do rise up and depose their leader(like the shah) but cmon do yo really think the iraqis would have done the same to saddam? Not a chance.

Oh yes, someone would have deposed him. It happens all the time. Its great to view the US as the �savior�. That is convenient to justify our actions.  When the Kurds tried to do it back in the early 1990s right after the gulf war, the US did not support them. So many people died because of this war. Average people. It is easy to justify war if it is not on your home soil. Maybe that is why Europeans are less likely to support war as they have mixed through wars on their soil. They have seen what it does. We are distant from its affects here in the US. Other people are not �wimps�, more knowledgeable I think, and more cautious.

Are you some robot or jus find it difficult to understand plain simple English? Rami's post read:

what do Muslims care how you live, get out of our countries and stop interfering in our way of life.
Period, as they say in your country.

Or, is it that you don't now what you are replying to?

Hello?????? You read the first line of my post? That answered Rami's statement  just fine I think. A Muslim living in a western country, enjoying freedom provided by us evil Americans, complaining about westerners in Muslim countries. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

WORLD WAR II

Perhaps one example that is most pertinent to the current atmosphere of today is that of World War II when in 1944 hundreds of Japanese-Americans were forced to relocate on government demand. In response to the bombing at Pearl Harbor, the United States government had a heightened sense of skepticism towards any persons of Japanese descent, believing that it is better to ignore freedom and to secure the nation by sending them to, what Justice Roberts termed as, "concentration camps."

Freedom My .....

Is Afghanistan defeated and its former Taliban government in chains? No matter, says U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Afghanistan is small potatoes, the Taliban mere tools. The terrorists, we are told, live on. They are everywhere, part of the international conspiracy known as Al Qaeda.

 Yet even Al Qaeda escapes definition. Each time its alleged leaders are identified, we are warned that more are hiding in the shadows. And whenever the world's attention flags, a new discovery is made. A notebook found in a bombed-out house in Kabul proves that Al Qaeda is planning a nuclear attack. A videotape found in Singapore demonstrates that Al Qaeda is preparing another terror bombing.

A tool to control. There is nothing free about America. Most of you live under the impression that you have freedom, but you live in an extremely controlled enviroment.

WORLD WAR II

Perhaps one example that is most pertinent to the current atmosphere of today is that of World War II when in 1944 hundreds of Japanese-Americans were forced to relocate on government demand. In response to the bombing at Pearl Harbor, the United States government had a heightened sense of skepticism towards any persons of Japanese descent, believing that it is better to ignore freedom and to secure the nation by sending them to, what Justice Roberts termed as, "concentration camps."

Freedom My .....

what????? By the way it was later deemed unconstitutional to do this to these American citizens. And each was compensated several hundred thousand apiece! comparing Al Queda prisoners to them is stupid. for one the Japanese were American citizens. Al Queda scumbags are not. The Japanese were rousted out of their homes in America and were not fighting or hiding. Al Queda  not the case. Apples and Oranges

My very freedom? what a joke Ive been here 15 years dont you have a sence of history, none of what you said changes anything i said.

On the contrary.The open society in Australia wouldn't exist if Japan had succeeded in their invasion. So what I said is totally true. It is you who needs history lessons. My point is Muslim man in western country. Enjoying life in that society. complaining about that same society or culture in the place he came from. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.

typical American mentality if you cant morally justify your actions divert attention to something else. America and Australia had a treaty which you where obliged to honor for Australian support in the war it wasn't done out of the goodness of your heart....our allies and all that.

of course Australia supporting the allied forces and America in every war since means nothing as any person who is not American there life is not worth mentioning.

England was allied with Australia, so was Russia. Did they fight off the Japs? Real Australians know this! And the ones I talked to brought this up to me. And furthermore saying they are eternally grateful. And don't think the US isn't grateful to Australia for their support in later conflicts. In fact my battle group stopped in Perth and Sydney. We were very well received in both places by the locals. my opinions here came directly from the Australians I met..

On the contrary.The open society in Australia wouldn't exist if Japan had succeeded in their invasion.

What open society exists in Eyerak and Afghanistan since the filthy invasions and in your best allies Pakistan and EGYPT - not to forget the people boiling ally of your's - Uzbekistan. 

We are not some gullible idiotic FoolBlooded Amreekis here. This board has some people who do know the world (and also what honour actually means and stands for). We are not just some silly flag worshippers who just "believe". Full stop.

Your such text book American hypothetical garbage won't wash here.

America gave FREEDOM to the world.

Thanks for the joke and don't forget telling it to the cows around you.

Some rats at least have brains.

My question was very simple but you do not have the guts nor the brain to answer it straight. What open society exists in Eyerak and Afghanistan since the filthy invasions and in your best allies Pakistan and EGYPT - not to forget the people boiling ally of your's - Uzbekistan. 

Guardian is the most respected paper in this part of the world. It's not published for the rif rafs or other such street urchins.

If you can't answer the question just shut up

Guardian is the most respected paper in this part of the world. It's not published for the rif rafs or other such street urchins.

So why are you reading it?

Kenski -

what????? By the way it was later deemed unconstitutional to do this to these American citizens. And each was compensated several hundred thousand apiece! comparing Al Queda prisoners to them is stupid. for one the Japanese were American citizens. Al Queda scumbags are not. The Japanese were rousted out of their homes in America and were not fighting or hiding. Al Queda  not the case. Apples and

You answered my point. It was LATER deemed unconstitutional, but the American ppl as a whole are selfish, you act first and THINK(!!)after, and when you eventually do think, you believe compensation is the answer!!!

We as Americans can buy because our people go to work and earn the money to buy that stuff. whether or not we give it away........depends on the person.

And the rest of us bloody  ppl don't work do we!!! Also please answer Whispers comments as per below, i'm actually interested in what your answer will be..

My question was very simple but you do not have the guts nor the brain to answer it straight. What open society exists in Eyerak and Afghanistan since the filthy invasions and in your best allies Pakistan and EGYPT - not to forget the people boiling ally of your's - Uzbekistan.

Think you are well informed K?

At the time of the US led invasion, did you believe the US had proof Iraq possessed WMDs and aided the terrorists who carried out the 9/11 attacks?  Be honest.

Meanwhile outside the US, few people supported the war or felt Iraq was a credible or iminent threat.  Post war evidence supports the opinions and perceptions of the majority of the world, not the opnions and misperceptions of Americans.  So how did so many Americans become misinformed. 

Consider

>>>>>>>>

The Verdict Is In: TV News Is Bad For Your Brain

A new study has revealed that people who rely on television to get their news are more likely to be misinformed on the facts about Iraq, WMD's and Iraq's ties to 9/11 than those who get their news from other sources or even who don't follow the news at al.

The study polled over 3,000 people on their perceptions about international support for the Iraq War, ties of Saddam Hussein to the events of 9/11, and the Discovery of WMD's in Iraq. What they found, incredibly, though not surprising, was that the more people got their news from TV, the higher the frequency of their misperceptions.

Out of all the news networks, of course, Fox News ranked highest among misinformed viewers. The lowest was PBS.

Bush's support tied to misperceptions

Another angle of the poll was to group by Bush supporters or Democratic candidate supporters. Naturally, the vast majority of the misinformed were Bush supporters. This included Democrats that supported Bush....

http://americanassembler.com/issues/media/ - http://americanassembler.com/issues/media/

>>>>>>>>>>>>

Americans are hardly in a position to criticise the foreign news sources.  In fact Americans would be a lot better informed if they started balancing their news with sources like the Guardian or even Al Jazeera.

http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage - http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

I recommend googleNews

http://news.google.com - http://news.google.com

>>>>>>

Five companies - Viacom (owner of CBS), Disney (ABC), News Corporation (Fox), General Electric (NBC) and AOL Time Warner - control about 75 percent share of production of prime-time viewing...

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=6850 - http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=6850

>>>>>>>>>>>>

Having an open mind is the ability to consider an idea without embracing it.  If you don't consider other news sources but instead rely on one of the five similar sources of news in the US, you will end up being arrogant, ignorant and misinformed.  That might explain many of your above posts.

BTW, the UK and Russia did fight Japan during WW II.  The UK and Russia both had interests in East Asia.  Hong Kong was overrun by the Japanese at the beginning of the war.  Russia declared war on Japan at the end of the war.

At the time of the US led invasion, did you believe the US had proof Iraq possessed WMDs and aided the terrorists who carried out the 9/11 attacks?  Be honest.

Totally honest here! I have no doubts Saddam had WMDs. He's used them on Iran and his own citizens. Did he have any come invasion time? Hard to say, wasn't like he didn't know the invasion was coming. And had a chance to hide them or ship them out of country. I never felt Saddam had a thing to do with 9-11. That was OBL and the Taliban. Do I think Saddam was happy 9-11 happened? I have no doubts. Neither of these were significant in my book as to my decision to support war with Iraq. My opinion was Saddam should have been neutralized long ago. Anyone reading this honestly cannot deny saddam was killing his own citizens. As a vet of the first gulf war Ive seen that this guy has done to his fellow man firsthand! So they happened to be Muslim I never looked at what religion was in play here just bad acts by man. What Saddam was doing to the Shia and Kurds is no different than what the Serbs were doing to the Ethnic Albanians. For that he deserved to go down just as Slabodan Melosevich did. WMD or terrorist ties or not. Americas biggest crime here was not removing Saddam long ago.

So you didn't know whether or not Iraq possessed WMDs at the time of the invasion.  In other words you doubted Bush's justifications for war.

March 17, 2003 - Bush:  Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030317-7.html - http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030317-7.h tml

The UN weapon inspectors also weren't sure either.  That's why they needed more time.  But they wre pretty sure Iraq was disarmed and that all remaining disarmament issues could be resolved peacefully within a few months when the US declared war:

March 7, 2003 - Blix:  Let me conclude by telling you that UNMOVIC is currently drafting the work programme, which resolution 1284 (1999) requires us to submit this month.  It will obviously contain our proposed list of key remaining disarmament tasks; it will describe the reinforced system of ongoing monitoring and verification that the Council has asked us to implement; it will also describe the various subsystems which constitute the programme, e.g. for aerial surveillance, for information from governments and suppliers, for sampling, for the checking of road traffic, etc.

How much time would it take to resolve the key remaining disarmament tasks?  While cooperation can and is to be immediate, disarmament and at any rate the verification of it cannot be instant.  Even with a proactive Iraqi attitude, induced by continued outside pressure, it would still take some time to verify sites and items, analyse documents, interview relevant persons, and draw conclusions.  It would not take years, nor weeks, but months.  Neither governments nor inspectors would want disarmament inspection to go on forever.  However, it must be remembered that in accordance with the governing resolutions, a sustained inspection and monitoring system is to remain in place after verified disarmament to give confidence and to strike an alarm, if signs were seen of the revival of any proscribed weapons programmes.

http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/SC7asdelivered.htm - http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/SC7asdelivered.htm http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030317-7.html -

If you believed Hussein was the most pressing humanitarian problem back in 2003, you are misinformed:

Human Rights Watch: 

War in Iraq: Not a Humanitarian Intervention

So you didn't know whether or not Iraq possessed WMDs at the time of the invasion.  In other words you doubted Bush's justifications for war.

Apparently you didn't read the post that close. I may have Not known about WMDs but the fact Saddam was a flat out bad guy anyway. makes it justified in my eyes. This guy was committing genocide (just like the Serbs).He needed to go.Long ago. The US may have supported Saddam in the Iran-Iraq war but that does not mean Its OK with the people of this country that Saddam was gassing people.Now the US did look the other way when Saddam used them on Iranians.Probably because Americans at the time HATED Iranians.Saddam went too far.and invading Kuwait ended and Support the US gave him. Another thing Bush got reelected because the man who ran against him made a HUGE mistake.After John Kerry returned from Vietnam.with a Silver Star I might add. He became an anti war protester.The spirit of the 60s is dead.We live in a time when war protesters are views as collaborators with the enemy.(The logic behind that being large demonstrations of American citizens televised world wide gives a moral boost to our enemies.They have the right to do it but they can kiss any chance of political success goodbye. the overwhelming majority of Americans support our troops whether we agree with the war or not.The logic being were there now regardless,victory it the only acceptable exit in the vast majority of Americans eyes.no exit until victory.

Ahem, please prove Hussein was in the middle of committing genocide when the US invaded.

I never said you were against the war.  You said you didn't know if Iraq possessed WMDs at the time the US declared war.  That statement directly contradicts Bush's justification for war.  Read Bush's statement above.

I posted links above (including one from the US state department) which show that except for the execution of several thousands Iraqis convicted of capital crimes, Iraq was peaceful more or less in the decade leading up to the US led invasion.  The US is hardly in a postion to criticise Iraq's use of capital punishment. 

Eight countries since 1990 are known to have executed prisoners who were under 18 years old at the time of the crime � China, Congo (Democratic Republic), Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, USA and Yemen. China, Pakistan and Yemen have raised the minimum age to 18 in law, and Iran is reportedly in the process of doing so. The USA executed more child offenders than any other country (19 between 1990 and 2003).

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/deathpenalty-facts-eng - http://web.amnesty.org/pages/deathpenalty-facts-eng

There was no genocide going on in Iraq.  On the other hand in 2003 millions were dying in a genocidal civil war in the Democratic Republic of Congo.  Who did the US invade?  The country with oil of course!

I also proved with links above that since the illegal US led invasion, Iraq has become a far more dangerous place.

Hussein worst wholesale killing days were in the context of a proxy war with Iran on behalf of the US during the 1980's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_War - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_War

The US didn't just look the other way when Iraq used chemical weapons against iran and innocent civilians.  It was actively helping Iraq use its US supplied CW technology more effectively:

Together, the U.S. and its surrogate waged a brutal, illegal war against Iran for eight years. In violation of the Geneva Protocol of 1925 (which outlaws chemical warfare) the Reagan-Bush Administration authorized the sale of poisonous chemicals and deadly biological stocks, including anthrax. Iraq was already was using chemical weapons-on an "almost daily basis," according to the Washington Post-when envoy Donald Rumsfeld met with Saddam Hussein in 1983, an historic meeting that consolidated an active military partnership. The repression and brutality of Saddam's regime was not a secret when U.S. and Iraqi officials coordinated their military efforts. Not only did the U.S. supply planes, munitions and bombs, it supplied the satellite images that enabled Saddam to massacre thousands of Iranians. Twenty-four U.S. firms exported arms and material to Baghdad. France also sent 200 AMX medium tanks, mirage bombers, and Gazelle helicopter gunships.

What is the legal and moral difference between German industries that manufactured ovens for concentration camps in Europe and U.S. and European merchants of death who supplied Saddam Hussein with cluster bombs, nuclear materials, anthrax spores, helicopters, and the most heinous weapons directed against innocent Iranian people?

The vast, lucrative arms trade in the Middle East laid the ground work for Saddam's aggression. Without high-tech weapons from the U.S., Iraq's wars against Iran and Kuwait would never have taken place.

http://www.commondreams.org/scriptfiles/views03/1223-11.htm - http://www.commondreams.org/scriptfiles/views03/1223-11.htm

and

The US provided less conventional military equipment than British or German companies but it did allow the export of biological agents, including anthrax; vital ingredients for chemical weapons; and cluster bombs sold by a CIA front organisation in Chile, the report says.

Intelligence on Iranian troop movements was provided, despite detailed knowledge of Iraq's use of nerve gas.

Rick Francona, an ex-army intelligence lieutenant-colonel who served in the US embassy in Baghdad in 1987 and 1988, told the Guardian: "We believed the Iraqis were using mustard gas all through the war, but that was not as sinister as nerve gas.

"They started using tabun [a nerve gas] as early as '83 or '84, but in a very limited way. They were probably figuring out how to use it. And in '88, they developed sarin."

On November 1 1983, the secretary of state, George Shultz, was passed intelligence reports of "almost daily use of CW [chemical weapons]" by Iraq.

However, 25 days later, Ronald Reagan signed a secret order instructing the administration to do "whatever was necessary and legal" to prevent Iraq losing the war.

In December Mr Rumsfeld, hired by President Reagan to serve as a Middle East troubleshooter, met Saddam Hussein in Baghdad and passed on the US willingness to help his regime and restore full diplomatic relations.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,866942,00.html - http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,866942,00.html

The next killing spree was the invasion of Kuwait.  Given the conflicting signals given by the US ambassador, he probably thought he had US support.

Transcript of Meeting Between Iraqi President, Saddam Hussein and U.S. Ambassador to Iraq, April Glaspie. - July 25, 1990 (Eight days before the August 2, 1990 Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait)

July 25, 1990 - Presidential Palace - Baghdad

U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - I have direct instructions from President Bush to improve our relations with Iraq. We have considerable sympathy for your quest for higher oil prices, the immediate cause of your confrontation with Kuwait. (pause) As you know, I lived here for years and admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country. We know you need funds. We understand that, and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. (pause) We can see that you have deployed massive numbers of troops in the south. Normally that would be none of our business, but when this happens in the context of your threat s against Kuwait, then it would be reasonable for us to be concerned. For this reason, I have received an instruction to ask you, in the spirit of friendship - not confrontation - regarding your intentions: Why are your troops massed so very close to Kuwait's borders?

Saddam Hussein - As you know, for years now I have made every effort to reach a settlement on our dispute with Kuwait. There is to be a meeting in two days; I am prepared to give negotiations only this one more brief chance. (pause) When we (the Iraqis) meet (with the Kuwaitis) and we see there is hope, then nothing will happen. But if we are unable to find a solution, then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death.

U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - What solutions would be acceptable?

Saddam Hussein - If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab - our strategic goal in our war with Iran - we will make concessions (to the Kuwaitis). But, if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt and the whole of Iraq (i.e., in Saddam s view, including Kuwait ) then we will give up all of the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the shape we wish it to be. (pause) What is the United States' opinion on this?

U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960's, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America. (Saddam smiles)

On August 2, 1990, Saddam's massed troops invade and occupy Kuwait.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/april.html - http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/april.html

Likely Hussein interpreted Glaspie's statements as US approval for Iraq's invasion plans of Kuwait.  He probably got the same kind of message from American ambassadors before he invaded Iran.  In one case in meant a green light for an invasion and in the other case it didn't.

After the failed Kuwait war, Hussein faced insurrections and rebellions which he crushed mercilessly.  Americans should be able to understand by now that fighting an insurrection can get nasty.

I'm not shedding any tears for Husein here.  He got what he deserved.  But my problem is with the effect of the war on Iraq's other 30 million citizens who have suffereed because Americas war criminals were unhappy their man Hussein stopped taking their orders.  The US has no legal right to determine who is fit to govern and who isn't.  That right is the domain of the UN security council.  Only the UNSC has the legal right to impose regime change but onnly when a government is a threat to other nations or is causing a large scale humanitarian disaster.  Iraq clearly never met either of those criteria.

Ironically the US does meet that criteria.  The US by refusing to allow the UNSC to lift the economic sanctions against Iraq when it no longer possessed WMDs in violation of the original UNSC resolution did cause a large scale humanitarian disaster in Iraq.  The US has become a rogue nation above international laws and conventions and is a threat to the peace and security of other nations.  If any country needs regime change, its the US.

earth_as_one

Just love your generosity, spending so much time on a known case.

Glad you find me entertaining, W.

Sadly, what is known by the world remains unknown in the US.

I never said you were against the war.  You said you didn't know if Iraq possessed WMDs at the time the US declared war.  That statement directly contradicts Bush's justification for war.  Read Bush's statement above.

Bush's reason was HIS. my reason is MINE. Just because I see a different view point than him doesn't mean hes a hypocrite or a liar.I saw a legitimate reason on my own.

All of you are obsessed with justifying the actions of yourselves and your tribes. You think you have all knowledge and wisdom, as though your viewpoint is the only one. You delve into the past to dust off trinkets and wax nostalgic about the past. What's done is done. Learn from your mistakes. Learn? But then how will you entertain your Nafs? Yes, Americans have Nafs too though they commonly call it the ego though in reality it is the False Ego created buy your Nafs.

So many of you bow down to whatever your cleric or minister tells you rather than actually meditate upon Allah's words and virtues. Think for yourselves, don't be afraid to let go of your fears and pettiness. Yes I am pointing a finger and know this flesh in which I dwell follows suit with teh rest of you far too many times for my liking.

The path to peace and enlightenment is not easy but it is worth it.

All of your nations are rocked to sleep by forces you cannot comprehend for you are too busy slamming your heads against your own limited thinking and shouting the wrongs of others. Those forces keep all of us fighting each other so that they remain hidden.

Enough for now....

kenski70 wrote: I never said you were against the war.  You said you didn't know if Iraq possessed WMDs at the time the US declared war.  That statement directly contradicts Bush's justification for war.  Read Bush's statement above. Bush's reason was HIS. my reason is MINE. Just because I see a different view point than him doesn't mean hes a hypocrite or a liar.I saw a legitimate reason on my own.

Bush:  Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.

Russia, China and France had publically expressed doubts and wanted the weapons inspections to find proof before they would support a UN Resolution supporting the use of force against Iraq. 

Russia's Views On the Crisis in Iraq

http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/week/030217.htm - http://cns.miis.edu/pubs/week/030217.htm

France

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/16/60minutes/main544161.shtml - http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/16/60minutes/main5441 61.shtml

China

http://www.china-un.ch/eng/ljzg/zgwjzc/t85882.htm - http://www.china-un.ch/eng/ljzg/zgwjzc/t85882.htm

Bush's statements are proveable lies.  Unlike Bush you were unsure whether Iraq possessed WMDs.  In other words, like China, France and Russia, you knew Bush was lying, but supported his drive for war anyway.  Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

Here's another little gem of information:

Resolution 1441 (2002) adopted today by the Security Council excludes any automaticity in the use of force. In this regard, we register with satisfaction the declarations of the representatives of the United States and the United Kingdom confirming this understanding in their explanations of vote, and assuring that the goal of the resolution is the full implementation of the existing Security Council resolutions on disarmament of Iraq�s weapons of mass destruction. All Security Council members share this goal.

In case of failure by Iraq to comply with its obligations, the provisions of paragraphs 4, 11 and 12 will apply. Such failure will be reported to the Security Council by the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC or by the Director General of IAEA. It will be then for the Council to take a position on the basis of that report.

Therefore, the resolution fully respects the competences of the Security Council in the maintenance of international peace and security, in conformity with the Charter of the United Nations./.

Lorne,

In order for Americans to learn from their mistakes they must first recognize and admit their mistakes.

In order for Americans to learn from their mistakes they must first recognize and admit their mistakes.

Only intelligent beings can afford to learn from their mistakes. It's impossible for people living in a delusional you are with us or against us world of created enemies victories, tanks, hammers and nails.

The only way we can now ensure world peace is by disarming the US and keeping her in quarantine for 148 years. Then they may become almost human. And, in that period educating them to the facts of life that the world does exist beyond the dollar and the mere few pluses and minuses.

The only way we can now ensure world peace is by disarming the US and keeping her in quarantine for 148 years

"You can have my gun, when you pry it from my cold dead fingers."

Teddy Roosevelt  US President.

Most Americans have good intentions.  They sincerely believe their leaders want to improve the world rather than line their own pockets.  Unfortunately most Americans are more interested in sports and celebrities, than about informing themselves about boring subjects like American foreign policy.  The few like Kenski who actually take an interest in the world outside the US are usually content swallowing American propaganda which calls itself the news.  Americans like Kenski don't develop their own opinions.  That would require too much effort.  Its far easier for them to get their opinion from their idiot box.  As a result they share a manufactured opinion identical to millions of other Americans.

It is theorectically possible for sheeple like Kenski to break away from the herd, but it requires the individual to make an effort and have an open mind.  In order to resist manipulations he would first have to become aware them.  Reading this book would be helpful:

Manufacturing Consent

by Noam Chomsky

The Political Economy of the Mass Media

A Propaganda Model

The mass media serve as a system for communicating messages and symbols to the general populace. It is their function to amuse, entertain, and inform, and to inculcate individuals with the values, beliefs, and codes of behavior that will integrate them into the institutional structures of the larger society. In a world of concentrated wealth and major conflicts of class interest, to fulfill this role requires systematic propaganda....

http://www.thinkingpeace.com/Lib/lib098.html - http://www.thinkingpeace.com/Lib/lib098.html

Of course, what Chomski wrote isn't new or revolutionary.  Propaganda is as old as language itself.  Consider this interview:

"Nazi leader Hermann Goering, interviewed by Gustave Gilbert during
the Easter recess of the Nuremberg trials, 1946 April 18, quoted in
Gilbert's book 'Nuremberg Diary.'

Goering: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece.

Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.

Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

Goering: Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in
any country."

So brainwashing sheeple isn't a new phenomenom.  Technology has changed, but the techniques haven't.  Television amplifies existing propaganda techniques.  It enables fewer people to control the opinions of more people.  The way it works is People form opinions based on what they know.  In America the same people who determine American foreign policy, also control American television and radio and therefore they control what Americans like Kenski know and therefore what they think.  

But now Kenski has strayed from the realm of American controlled media onto a forum where he is exposed to different propaganda.  Now he has seen information which directly conflicts with what he "knows" to be true.  Can thousands of hours of FauxNews programming be undone?  It remains to be seen if his mind is open enough to absorb and process the new information.  Personally I doubt it.  He doesn't seem that bright.

So what will it be Kenski???  Can you enlighten us with an original thought or are you just going to baa-ah-ah like a sheeple?

I appreciate good theatre, even theatre of the absurd, which helps when it comes to analyzing politics, and thus I don�t mind the occasional Dis America Pageant, but one has to wonder just how, exactly, that comparatively well informed majority from, say, Canada, Australia, France or Great Britain have managed to escape their opinions being manufactured by the Ted Turners, Conrad Blacks, Rupert Murdochs, Serge Dassaults and other media barons of the (Western) world?  (The question assumes that those countries have so escaped and that to escape is the goal.)

Also, if �sadly, what is known by the world remains unknown in the US� be accepted, then why would one post a link to one of the USA's more outspoken dissidents, Noam Chomsky, to make the point?  How could he be expected to know?

Serv   

Not all Americans are brainwashed by propaganda.  Millions of Americans can see right through it.  But they are a minority.  But as Goering pointed out, most people are unaware of the programing and their manufactured opinions.  The majority determines who has wealth and power.

The really pathetic thing about American propaganda is that it isn't even very good.  Its effectiveness lies in its overwhelmingness, like a bad commercial repeated over and over.

Outside the US, we are also subjected to propaganda, just less of it and from more divergent sources.... at least for the moment.  I'm sure it won't be long before average Canadians and Europeans become as badly misinformed as average Americans:

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1406 - http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1406  

Combined with the American government's ability to collect any information about anybody and use it for any purpose.

http://counterpunch.org/hutchinson12202005.html - http://counterpunch.org/hutchinson12202005.html

Americans have to trust

http://www.hereinreality.com/bigbrother.html - http://www.hereinreality.com/bigbrother.html

the people Bush appointed to manage these new powers only use them to fight a never ending "war on terror".

If these people aren't already doing so, it won't be long before these new powers are used for purely selfish reasons like gaining personal political and business advantages.

Those of you who don't understand the big deal should read George Orwell's 1984

http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/1984/URL - http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/]1984[/URL  

Here are some relevant Orwell quotes:

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.

War against a foreign country only happens when the moneyed classes think they are going to profit from it.

We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.

Winston could not definitely remember a time when his country had not been at war.

1984 has officially arrived.

Those of you involved in making it happen should consider if this is the future you want.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."  - Benjamin Franklin  

Kenski,

Today, I will sincerely ask your forgiveness for any of my words that may have hurt you. For, it's only today that I came face to face with the actual extent of your disability, pain and hurt.

I deeply felt for the extremely hurt person hiding behind a few moments of his country's glory some 60 odd years ago. I felt for the man who couldn't simply afford to appreciate morality, truth or even the Commandments, but tried to seek life in mere numbers, the stock of hardware and kill counts.

I almost cried for your sadness.

Please forgive me and have a nice 2006.

There is nothing that can be said ti quench the sadness in Ms. Sheehan's heart but as I understand the history of her current campaign to "talk to President Bush" I want to say what about the mother's of other soldiers who have lost their sons in battle yet maintain the understanding that War is war and once in war you risk losing a loved one. I've lost many of my friends, and brothers in arms due to battle.

I don't say anything to discredit this lady but it offends me that as a former SEAL who perhaps have done the most dangerous jobs to protect the states from terrorism is that there are others who politicize their emotions using th death of a loved one. Not all of her family is in uniformity over her feelings.

I love how Rami's attitude reflects the general ignorance that some Muslims have regarding the mindset of Americans. The attitude you all say is geared towards our administration but you all make no distinction between your wrath towards Bush or American people. Again, I know what the hell is going on and I don't need someone to tell me that I'm brainwashed because I'm a soldier or because of my political views. You have just as much right to believe as you do as a Muslim now let me have mine. Quite hard not generalizing Muslims here I find the environment hostile here quite different from a university setting.

If you (Rami and Whisper) are Americans and live in America its a shame that I'd have to take a bullet for Muslims who probably think I'm a brainwashed soldier but words are words so you can have them

There is nothing that can be said ti quench the sadness in Ms. Sheehan's heart but as I understand the history of her current campaign to "talk to President Bush" I want to say what about the mother's of other soldiers who have lost their sons in battle yet maintain the understanding that War is war and once in war you risk losing a loved one. I've lost many of my friends, and brothers in arms due to battle.

Why must we have wars in this era of human rights and the sovereignty of man? The sovereignty of �state�, crown or mere flags is a thing of our ignorant past. It�s gone dead. Should be binned as obsolete.

We talk of democracy and perpetuate wars?

And, man claims to have �evolved�?

I don't say anything to discredit this lady but it offends me that as a former SEAL who perhaps have done the most dangerous jobs to protect the states from terrorism

Must thank you wholeheartedly.

Now that terrorism has been eradicated and we stand in a much safer world?

Not all of her family is in uniformity over her feelings.

Brother, are we now going to measure the oldest natural institution in the universe, motherhood, against �opinion polls� � something invented to pull wool over folks� eyes?

I promise, I had thought for a moment that you were also a man and not a mere SEAL!

I love how Rami's attitude reflects the general ignorance that some Muslims have regarding the mindset of Americans.

We are ready to be educated. Where is this mindset? So far we have only seen gadgets, hardware and a Terminator set.

You have just as much right to believe as you do as a Muslim now let me have mine.

Yaar, just show me one point where a Muslim is allowed to believe in anything other than what the US wants to force down their poor throats - with the largest hardware ever collected on the face of our poor world?

If you (Rami and Whisper) are Americans and live in America its a shame that I'd have to take a bullet for Muslims who probably think I'm a brainwashed soldier but words are words so you can have them

My friend, I am lucky, I live in a cultured and a civilised place. We solve our problems in quite a humane manner, not with guns.

The US military acts for the US agenda why would you ever take a bullet for the Muslims? I sincerely wish I could understand that.

Nima, please don't take my criticism personally.  Obviously you are a person with strong convictions.  People like yourself who fight to defend their country should have everyone's respect.  The military should be an honorable profession.  Those of us who are safe  owe people like yourself our respect and gratitude.

Therefore Nima, I mean no disrespect when I point out that while you understand Ms. Sheehan's grief, you misunderstand her anger.  Like any mother she is overwhelmed with grief by the loss of her son. 

But she is angry because her son didn't die defending his country.  At no time was the US realistically threatened by Iraq.  At no time did Iraq make credible threats against America.  If the US didn't invade and occupy Iraq, Iraqi soldiers would not now be landing on America's shores nor would Iraqi bombs be dropping on America's cities.  So defense can be ruled out as a motivation for this war.

Not all wars are honorable. The honor in war comes from the motivations behind war, not war itself.  Ms. Sheehan is angry because her son was sent to war so that rich and powerful people could increase their personal wealth and power.  That's a huge difference than fighting to defend your country.  Yes tens of thousands of soldiers did die in this war defending their country, but they were Iraqis, not Americans.  Iraqi soldiers died defending their country from a numerically superior, better trained and technologically advanced adversary.  All soldiers who fight with honor, courage and sacrifice deserve our respect, even if they fight against us.  Dropping a bomb from the safety of a cockpit at 50,000 feet, requires less honor, courage and sacrifice than staying in a foxhole to face an enemy its likely will kill you without you even having a chance to defend yourself.  As a military person, I'm sure you know, most Iraqi soldiers never had a chance.  From their viewpoint, they sacrificed their lives defending their country (not an unpopular leader) from a hostile foreign invasion force with little hope they would survive, let alone win.  As a fellow soldier you must acknowledge these soldiers honor, courage and sacrifice.

The motivation of America's leaders in this war was personal greed and lust for power.  I'm sure Ms. Sheehan would have felt very different if her son had actually died defending his country rather than Halliburton's bottom line.    America's leaders turned Ms. Sheehan's son and all American soldiers from honorable men and women into just poorly paid mercenaries who kill and are killed for profit.  Their is no honor or respect in killing for profit. That is why she is angry.  America's leaders, not peace advocates are the ones who disrespect and dishonor the American military.

America's leaders are not motivated to make America safer.  Their motivation is to make themselves wealthier and more powerful.  The have abused their authority.  They have expended American military power and reduced America's ability to defend itself for personal gain.  They sacrificed thousands of soldiers and murdered tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children so they could buy more expensive luxuries and attend more extravagant parties.

Rather than using the American military to defend American their selfishness has put Americans in a more dangerous situation.  The US is more loathed and despised now than ever.   Some people can make the distinction between the America government and the American people but pictures like these:

WARNING GRAPHIC PICTURES OF WAR: http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm - http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

tend to blind people.  Think you are well informed Nima?  Do you believe that the American news isn't censored, then why didn't Americans see these results of the Iraq war?  Lots of pictures and clips like the above exist and were seen by the world, but not in the US.  Why?

Do you consider yourself a former soldier or a former mercenary Nima?  Both soldiers and mercenaries fight wars, but only soldiers can claim to be honorable.  If you are a true and honorable soldier then you should be outraged that your leaders have turned America's best into nothing more than mercenaries who kill innocent men, women and children for the purpose of increasing the wealth and power of a few people who are already far too wealthy and powerful.

Where is the honor in that?

Now do you understand Ms. Sheehan's anger?

The US military is the tool of the greatest fascist organization ever to curse the face of the earth. It is amazing how the americans can continue to lie abour being "for the good of mankind" when they have supported just about every murdering dictator of the 20th century.

Was the Nazi army honorable? Of course not. And neither is the US army.

Defending a country is a good thing only if the country is not a foul empire determined to enslave the rest of the world, as the US is.

No disrespect taken.

However I am a well informed vet and yes I understand the media covers up the reality of war. I have my opinions on Iraq and Afghanistan but my point here is that when, prior to the war, Ms. Sheehan and others were seen at a conference at which Bush attended, now where was the outrage then? Where was the outrage when he son prior to his death was serving? I agree with you that her pain is perhaps unbearable and I (not being a mother myself) will not understand that.

But none of you here and I mean one of you understand war anyway. I've been in war and battles etc. I understand what I have fought for you all may disagree but this is what makes the states great is because everyone has their own opinion. I agree that in every decade each administration has their own agenda but while I was serving I never disputed nothing

Nima wrote: I agree that in every decade each administration has their own agenda but while I was serving I never disputed nothing

Just following orders huh? Like the Nazis before you.

Mindless fool.

Obviously you and a donkey share the same name "Jackass." You obviously have not served in a military so obviously I wouldn't expect you to understand anything. Yes I was following orders and yes I never questioned. That is the code of any soldier regardless of what country you come from. I love when idiots such as yourself can make irrational comments like that to guys like me, it makes me better understand what kind of world we live in where guys can give up their lives for the great good only for reality to show that idiots such as yourself don't respect guys who fight everyday. Without guys like me I doubt you'd even be alive or using a computer to call me a mindless fool.

I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't say it neither to a SEAL in person nor to any military personnel so actually I'll take your cyber attack as a compliment. Fool

Nima: "I agree that in every decade each administration has their own agenda but while I was serving I never disputed nothing."

Perhaps it is this that at least in theory distinguishes an American soldier from a civilian: to a soldier the President is Commander-in-Chief, answerable to no one, while to a civilian the President is an elected civil servant, answerable to everyone.

Serv

Just following orders huh? Like the Nazis before you.

Yaar, as a great SEAL you should have at least returned this fire! Why did you just duck the question?

Plus, be honest, if any man is good enough for anything else in Life why would he be caught spending any time in any army, anywhere, ever?

Even with our latest edition of the Ten Commandments:

"Thou shalt kill from 52,000 feet and only when thou hast a bag full of lies"

"Thou shalt just obey orders, bin thinking and yet call yourself to be manufactured in the image of the Lord"

Nima wrote: Obviously you and a donkey share the same name "Jackass." You obviously have not served in a military so obviously I wouldn't expect you to understand anything. Yes I was following orders and yes I never questioned. That is the code of any soldier regardless of what country you come from. I love when idiots such as yourself can make irrational comments like that to guys like me, it makes me better understand what kind of world we live in where guys can give up their lives for the great good only for reality to show that idiots such as yourself don't respect guys who fight everyday. Without guys like me I doubt you'd even be alive or using a computer to call me a mindless fool. I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't say it neither to a SEAL in person nor to any military personnel so actually I'll take your cyber attack as a compliment. Fool

I have told people in the military that they're killers to their face. I would tell you to your face; if you chose to attack me as you seem to be implying, I would have you put in prison and then use the courts to impoverish your family. That's how civilized people settle their disputes. I suppose in your limited, violence filled mind you can't think that far ahead. Again, just like the Nazis.

Oh, and I have a black belt in shotokan so I would probably not fare too badly with you.

You're proud that you follow orders from killers mindlessly, and call me a fool? I guess you're so ignorant you don't see what an idiot you are making of yourself.

Nima wrote: guys can give up their lives for the great good

the last time the US military actually protected this country was in WWII. you've never lifted a finger for anything good: corporations exploit neanderthals like you to make themselves richer. Vietnam, Grenada, Iran, Chile--there are dozens of examples of how you stupid pawns have served the goals of your masters, the capitalist/fascists.

Before we get too insulting here, Nima offered his insights about what its like to be in the military.  We should be grateful for his input.  If you want to understand each other and find a way that we can all share this planet peacefully we are going to have to listen to each other.  Forums like these are the perfect venue for the exchange of ideas.  Imagine how boring it would be if we all had the same opinion.

My grandfather served in WW II and he told me stories about what he saw and did that would make you laugh and cry.  People who serve their country deserve respect.  People like myself who live safe and secure can thank people like Nima.  Personally I want to hear what then man has to say.

My problem isn't with soldiers who do their duty, its with the people who make criminal decesions and give criminal orders.  Some of them are soldiers but most of them are civilian politicians.

pawns have served the goals of your masters, the capitalist/fascists.

But then how many of us know that Cap It All itis is far worse than aids. It has crippled generations, crushed the real producers and growers bones and replaced God with the mere dollar.

We will ever have only wars without Alternative Financial Therapy.

Peace shall always pass us by and we will be doomed to dance with heros painted by our own blood.

Apologies for my late appearence.

To skygazer I highly doubt you would. We are not the Marines nor Army Special Forces are quite different. Highly trained, experienced and trained killers. What I was trained for, I could take your life and your family wouldn't even know it unless I wanted them too. Just briefly if you saw the news about the men who were burned and mobbed by the people there were two buddies of mine that were killed that day. They were former SEALs. What the news didn't say was that before the people killed them between two SEAL team members they killed approx. 78 insurgents between those two. Just to give you information of our training. 

Not beating bushes here but that is what I was trained for. In desert storm yes I've taken lives and yes I did my duty and sometimes I think back and I do feel sorry because in those times I've taken the life of someones brother, father, son.

In all wars rom World War 1 to the present those type of thoughts would land you in the grave. You cannot think about the What if's and the How's of war while your in battle because the moment you think those thoughts you endager yourself and the lives of your men. This is what I mean when I say we acted out orders without question, it's not mindless ignorance on our part it's called survival. If I wanted safety at that time I wouldn't have been a SEAL I would've been a civilian.

I understand President Bush has made some mistakes here and yes, I do disagree with his policies but it's not my place to go off and talk about him as a person because I don't know him as a person. I believe what he is doing now politically is damaging and endangering American people. Fortunately there are Americans who support us and support what we do because they know that its not political with us but our job. Our military mothers have supported us and our people have supported us. The one thing I relish is that when our job is done my buddies at home appreciate the hardwork and what I've been through.

I read the http://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/iraqfalluja/ - Human Rights Watch report about how the Americans initially entered Fallujah.  The report documents how basic misunderstandings and culture clashes led to the slaughter of protestors, most of whom were unarmed except for a few who were armed and firing into the air as a customary sign of strength and defiance.  The report details how the evidence supports eye witness accounts that the few armed protestors did not fire at the Americans and that Americans responded by using lethal force against mostly unarmed civilians.  Talk about getting off on the wrong foot.   That one incident triggered a chain of events which led to the http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/index.cfm?Page=Article&ID=1699 - death of the four mercenaries guarding Christian missionaries converting Muslims to Christianity climaxing in the laying waste to a http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/index.cfm?Page=Article&ID=1699 - city of 350,000 people known as the city of Mosques .

How would you feel if foreign invaders did http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_occupation_of_Fallujah - this to your hometown?

Did you ever stop and think that maybe the US isn't welcome in Iraq.  Certainly you weren't invited.  The above describes the actions of  killers, not liberators.

How sad it's to be a SEAL that you are trained to take life but not to breathe it back into your victims?

I know a man who walked this earth ages ago. He could breathe life into the dead. Billions of people live just for him, even today.

Wish you all the best of luck with such sad short skint measures of life, my friend.

Nima,

The more you go on about your "training" the less I believe you were actually Special Forces. 

I'm sorry, but I have too many members of my family that serve in the Armed Forces.  I even have a ex-Airbourne Ranger for a buddy. 

NONE of them talk the way you do about it.  I seriously doubt you were ever in the Military and if you were I highly doubt you were Special Forces. 

I can't recall how many times I've been "hit on" by men who claim to be Special Forces over the internet.  The anonymity allows for some real whoppers to get told.

I honestly urge those of you who have been engaging this man to wonder who you are arguing with.  It could be some computer nerd in his mother's basement that's played too much Call to Duty and Halo 2.

Nima wrote: Apologies for my late appearence. To skygazer I highly doubt you would. We are not the Marines nor Army Special Forces are quite different. Highly trained, experienced and trained killers. What I was trained for, I could take your life and your family wouldn't even know it unless I wanted them too. Just briefly if you saw the news about the men who were burned and mobbed by the people there were two buddies of mine that were killed that day. They were former SEALs. What the news didn't say was that before the people killed them between two SEAL team members they killed approx. 78 insurgents between those two. Just to give you information of our training.

You are so full of crap. See my post to Angela.

You better go back to your bedroom before your mommy catches you playing with her computer again.

And better be careful. I'm in the KGB.

roflmao

Justice_4_All wrote: LOL skygazer  that was too cute..

Thanks.

He must have believed me; he hasn't been back.

Or his mommy did catch him.

Your welcome  

what a loser!!! ITs for people like this, there is so much hate and violence in this world.

 But I seem to think he is one that talks big, but when it comes down it, runs like a sissy to hide between mommies legs.