What is the Anti-Christ in Islam
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Topic: What is the Anti-Christ in Islam
Posted By: Power of GOD
Subject: What is the Anti-Christ in Islam
Date Posted: 14 August 2014 at 1:11pm
| What is the use for a Anti-Christ in Islam? , Who is Islam's Anti-Christ and What is his purpose? Islam is the only non Chrstian religion which got a antichrist and believe that there is a antichrist |
Replies:
Posted By: Muslim75
Date Posted: 23 August 2014 at 2:01pm
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Dear forumer,
I again would like to point out the inapropriateness of such a user name.
The Anti-christ was talked about by every prophet. Not one prophet, as we have it from the hadiths, but that he warned his community about the Anti-christ. The Anti-christ also indicates everything false.
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Posted By: Power of GOD
Date Posted: 28 August 2014 at 4:03am
No No you have got it all wrong only the Apostle John was the only bible writer who used the name antichrist and islam is the only religion who denies that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God so if islam denie the fact that in thier point of view that Jesus is not the Christ then what is the point in having a antichrist, that tells me that how can someone make an aligation about a antichrist if they did not believe that there is a christ and the discription of islam's antichrist is totaly absurb the way Muhammad described him who would ever believe him. Antichrist means in opposition or in place of Christ.It apears five times in the book of John already that time the antichrists were there it was everyone who was against Christ and denied that Jesus was the Son of God even Apostle Paul was a big antichrist he was a christian hunter with authority from the Jewis council Sanhedrin. "... they all rushed at him (Stephen), dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. . . . And Saul was there, giving approval to his death" ( http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=ACTS+7&language=english&version=NASB - Acts 7.57 to 8:1 ). After Stephen was martyred, Saul went door to door in Jerusalem finding people who believed that Jesus is the Messiah. "Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off men and women and put them in prison" ( http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=ACTS+7&language=english&version=NASB - Acts 8:3 ). Since Muhammad started islam He was always in opposition fo Christ he decleared himself the last and final prophet he denied that Jesus was the Christ and the SON OF GOD.
From which authority did Muhammad got right to persecute christians,jews and infidels, and renounce Christianity
Interestingly enough, Islamic tradition speaks much of the Mahdi�s special calling to convert Christians and Jews to Islam, yet speaks very little specifically of conversions from other faiths. It seems as though converting Christians and Jews to Islam will be the primary evangelistic thrust of the Mahdi. The following quote from Ayatollah Ibrahim Amini clearly articulates this vision:
The Mahdi will offer the religion of Islam to the Jews and Christians; if they accept it they will be spared, otherwise they will be killed.
And of course we cannot forget the infamous Hadith that has become a favorite of many Muslim anti-Semites. Again, note that it is speaking specifically about �The last hour�:
The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.
After commenting on this particlar Hadith, several Muslim authors will be quick to point out the very �interesting� fact that this particular tree, �the Gharqad� (apparently the boxwood tree) is presently being planted in abundance by Jews in Israel. The point is that this final holocaust is expected by Muslims to take place within the present state of Israel. This of course corresponds to another very specific similarity between the biblical Antichrist and the Mahdi. 1 John 4:1-3 says, "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
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Muslim75 wrote:Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 03 September 2014 at 9:05am
Peace unto you! Muhammad (S) got the authority from the God of the Messiah (S) whom he worship who name is Allah (S) and for your information Muhammed (S) did not persecute people who follow the Messiah and the Israelite. <> Among the Dead Sea Scrolls, the remains of the library of a Jewish sect from around the turn of the Era, are many compositions in Aramaic. These new texts also provide the best evidence for Palestinian Aramaic of the sort used by Jesus and his disciples. ( http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/aramaic_language.html - < http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/aramaic_language.html - > What was the word used for God in Aramaic? Go to the Aramaic Lexicon and Concordance: http://www.peshitta.org/lexicon/ - �type it in the search bar then type the word �God� This is what you will come up with: Pronunciation: (Eastern) AaLaH (Western) AaLoH Br. zainool------------- LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES! |
Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 13 September 2014 at 10:34am
| who was the author of the book that you so fondly quote from it seems to be a false book. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 06 October 2014 at 2:18pm
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This is a very interesting question which 'Power of God' brings up. If muslims do not accept Yshwe as Christ, then what need have they of the anti-Christ? How can one stand against a thing which has not already been established? It makes no sense that Christ and the one who will stand against Him would appear at the same time. When is the muslim dajal meant to appear? I found this thread while looking for a place to post the following thoughts which I had recorded in a journal of mine. So the muslims have a Mahdi coming from the progeny of Muhammad... and the Jews have a Messiah coming from the progeny of David...? Interesting. The muslims believe the Mahdi comes to establish justice on earth... the Jews believe that the Messiah will come and save them and establish them... and the Christians believe we have seen the Messiah, and He will come again to establish order on the earth... Interesting. I now add to those thoughts... and the Christians believe we have seen the Messiah, and He will come again to establish order on the earth...after the one rises to oppose all that the Christ has taught and represented. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 06 October 2014 at 2:45pm
Ignorance is bliss for people like you. Muslims do accept Jesus as the Messiah. It says so in the Quran! He is known as "Al-Masih". There is no "anti-Christ" figure in Islam. There is a figure known as Dajjal, and this Arabic word, which actually means "Impostor", is often translated as "anti-Christ". I think that is just due to convention, so as to avoid any confusion. But the correct translation is "Impostor", and this is quite apt since Dajjal will claim to be a king, a prophet and then finally God. He will be the ultimate impostor. But at the end of his reign, he will be killed, quite appropriately, by Jesus (peace be upon him). The funny thing is that the New Testament actually warns of false prophets who will come in Jesus' name! Well, Muhammad (peace be upon him) did not come in Jesus' name. Neither will Imam Mahdi. So, who fits the description of "the one rises to oppose all that the Christ has taught and represented"? Well, I think that Paul is a strong candidate. Was Paul one of the "false prophets" Jesus warned of?  ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 06 October 2014 at 3:28pm
Do you realize you have just described the life of Yshwe? When is the dajal meant to appear?
Greetings islamipeace, How can you say you accept Yshwe as Messiah when you know nothing of what He taught? This is a false claim. (or more accurately, a deceptive claim)
Doesn't Muhammad try to 'come in Yshwe's name'? He tries to claim Yshwe as one of his prophets... yet he teaches nothing to his people, of what Yswhe taught... he simply uses the name of Yshwe as an attempt to further himself with those who follow Him. Why did Muhammad never share any of the Word [of Yshwe] (the injil)? Do you know that the devil flees 'at the name of Yshwe'... or from the Word... from Yshwe? You should read in the Acts of the Apostles, chapter 19 (specifically Acts 19:15) Paul did not 'oppose all that the Christ has taught and represented'. Have you ever read any of Paul's teachings? I keep asking this of muslims. asalaam, CH ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 06 October 2014 at 8:28pm
No, it describes the "life" of Jesus as envisioned by anonymous writers who wrote fake gospels about him. But this is one of the reasons why I think that Christians will be very vulnerable to the deception of the Dajjal because they are only ones who could believe that a man was God! So when the Dajjal comes, and claims that he is God, guess who is more likely to believe him? That's right! Christians!  You asked when the Dajjal is "meant to appear". I don't even know what this means. What do you mean when he is "meant to appear"? He will appear sometime in the future. That's all we know. We have been provided some warning signs of his arrival, but as to "when" it will happen, it's anybody's guess. It's not like we have an exact date as to when he appears. 
The only deception is coming from you Christians. You are ones who have used anonymous and often times forged documents to hijack the teachings of Jesus (peace be upon him) and make false claims about him. Jesus was a monotheist. He worshiped God. You have turned him into a god himself! The deception is in you.
My goodness. I didn't know it was possible to be this ignorant! The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) did not come in Jesus' name. He came in God's name. Muhammad also never claimed that Jesus was "one of his prophets". He said that Jesus was one of God's prophets, one of a long line of noble and righteous men. The only one who claimed to be sent by Jesus was the false apostle Paul. He was the one who simply used the name of Jesus as an attempt to further himself with those who followed him.
Wow, really? Ooooh, that is certainly impressive! Did you know that the devil also flees in anguish when he sees a Muslim prostrating to God? Yes, it's true! When he sees that, he runs and laments that he will go to hell because he refused to obey God, while the Muslim will go to Paradise because he obeys God. Alhamdulillah!And by the way, the Quran does share some of Jesus' teachings: "When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: "Now have I come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear Allah and obey me. "For Allah, He is my Lord and your Lord: so worship ye Him: this is a Straight Way."" (43:63-64) "And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"" (61:6)
Don't ask dumb questions. I have done my research. I have read Paul's blasphemous "teachings". Paul is the only one who claimed to be sent by Jesus. Jesus warned of false prophets who would come in his name. Who else came in Jesus' name other than Paul? ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 06 October 2014 at 10:42pm
Greetings islamispeace, Is he meant to appear at the same time as the Christ, the Messiah, the Mahdi? Or must the Christ, the Messiah, the Mahdi appear first?
The question is how can you claim to accept Christ, Yshwe Messiah, when Muhammad taught you nothing of the Word? This is the deception, making the claim to accept what you know nothing of... unless you believe of course, as you are told in the qur'an, that the scriptures that came before are confirmed, and you do as the qur'an instructs and go to them... to the people of the Book... to know the Word of Yshwe (the injil).
Ad hominem attacks add nothing to your discussion.
This makes no sense since Paul was the one who was persecuting the ones who followed Yshwe. (note: You really should read the whole account of Paul's conversion... there was more than just Paul involved... there was Ananais... book of the acts of the Apostles, chapter 9)
Is that written in the qur'an? not a thing added to the belief by men?
Good, then maybe you can please tell me what you think that Paul taught that is objectionable. "Paul is the only one who claimed to be sent by Jesus. Jesus warned of false prophets who would come in his name. Who else came in Jesus' name other than Paul?"This point is well taken, but I still ask you to show where-in anything Paul taught was in dispute with what Yshwe and the earlier scriptures taught. I think you will find that what Paul taught is very close to what you are taught in islam. Shukran and salaam, CH ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 7:20am
The Dajjal will come in between Imam Mahdi and Jesus. Imam Mahdi will come first, then the Dajjal, and then finally Jesus (peace be upon him). This is why I think Christians will be so vulnerable to the Dajjal's deception. As we have seen throughout history, it is a habit of Christians to label others as "anti-Christ". It is highly likely that many Christian fanatics will label Imam Mahdi as the "anti-Christ" and then when the Dajjal comes, these people will flock to him, think that he is the Messiah. In fact, the full title of this evil figure in Arabic is "Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal", the "Impostor Messiah". Christians could be easily duped into worshiping that abomination because they already worship Jesus!
Fanatics such as yourself can try to misquote the Quran as much as you want. You are not going to fool anyone except yourselves. The Quran has a lot to say about Jesus (peace be upon him), as I have already shown. It mentions some of Jesus' teachings, but the main emphasis is on setting the record straight about his relationship to God. Jesus (peace be upon him) was a man. He was a prophet. He worshiped God. Do you deny these things?
Well, they make the discussion fun! 
I already know the story. I also know of the contradictions in the story. You assume that I haven't done my research. I am here to tell you that you are the one who needs to do the research. You have been duped, but in the end, you will have no one to blame except yourself. The fact remains that Paul was the one who claimed to be sent by Jesus. Jesus warned of false prophets who would come in his name. If it wasn't Paul, then who was Jesus referring to? Who else came in his name?
You are so blind, that you don't even see the irony of your statement! You quoted the Book of Acts as your support for the idea that Satan flees from the mention of Jesus's name, but what is the Book of Acts if not the "belief" of men? Acts was allegedly written by Luke...a man. Eureka!As I have already told you, Muslims believe in the Quran and authentic hadiths. The belief that Satan runs in grief when he sees a Muslim prostrating to Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) is found in the latter.
The main objectionable teaching of Paul was the divinity of Jesus. That is an abomination, no different than the pagan myths of the gods taking human form. There are other examples, which I will explain when I have more time.
See above. If the "point is well taken", yet you still believe that Paul was not a false prophet as Jesus warned, then the question is who were the "false prophets" that Jesus warned would come in his name? Was it a false prophecy that was erroneously attributed to Jesus, just like the false prophecy that Jesus would return in the lifetimes of the first generation of Christians? ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 9:02am
So, here is another example of how Paul contradicted Jesus (peace be upon him) and spread an objectionable teaching. According to Revelation 2, Jesus prohibited the eating of food that had been sacrificed to idols. Addressing the church in Pergamum, it is stated: "Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality. 15 Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth." (2:14-16) Addressing the church in Thyatira, it is stated: "Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols." (2:20) So, it is clear that eating food that had been sacrificed to idols was forbidden and the author of Revelation criticized those Christians who did so. It seems like a pretty clear-cut ruling. Yet, Paul felt it necessary to override this ruling! In 1 Corinthians 8, Paul specificallY allowed his followers to eat such food, but only warned them not to eat around any "weak" Christians who might get the wrong idea: "So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that �An idol is nothing at all in the world� and that �There is no God but one.� 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many �gods� and many �lords�), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. 7 But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do. 9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if someone with a weak conscience sees you, with all your knowledge, eating in an idol�s temple, won�t that person be emboldened to eat what is sacrificed to idols? 11 So this weak brother or sister, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12 When you sin against them in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall." (1 Corinthians, 8:4-13) So, whereas Jesus plainly stated that eating food sacrificed to idols was an abhorrent sin, Paul allowed it. Is that possibly why the author of Revelation wrote his scathing letters to those churches? Was it because of Paul that these churches felt that they were allowed to eat forbidden food? Were they misled into believing that they could eat such food, using Paul's reasoning as justification? Whatever the case was, Paul clearly contradicted Jesus. Yet, he claimed to have been sent by him. Is this not clear evidence that he was among the "false prophets" that Jesus had warned about? ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 10:20am
Greetings islamispeace, How can there be an 'anti-Christ', when there has been, as yet, no Christ? How can the dajal come before the Christ, the Messiah, the Savior? Or are you saying that the Mahdi is the Christ, the Messiah, the Savior? and if the Mahdi is the Savior, then why the need for Yshwe? asalaam, CH ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 10:59am
Greetings islamispeace, I share your concern that many who think they are Christians will indeed be easily misled when the anti-Christ comes.
He submitted to the Father, yes... to the Superior part of Himself. (higher jihad ?)
There have been many seeming to teach in the name of Yshwe, but teaching a different Gospel than the one which He taught.
The book of Acts is not a book of beliefs, it is a recording of events.
Thank you for the clarification.
Ahh, but this was the teaching of Yshwe Himself... which muslims refuse to accept... if it was the teaching of Paul, it is because it comes from the words of Yshwe Himself, as has been shown many times, so I will spare us both by not going over it again.  I already know that you do not see. (the words of Yshwe are recorded in the Gospels to be read... and the Holy Spirit gives understanding)If you take issue with the claim of Yshwe to be God, then you must take issue with Yshwe Himself... you must reject Yshwe... it was He that made the claim many times and many ways. Why were the Jews so offended by Him that they sought to have Him killed? The easiest way for muslims to support their belief, by rejecting what Christianity teaches, is to try and vilify Paul. It just isn't correct.
The false prophets are all those that do not teach the fullness of what is in the scriptures, but teach only the part of the message that suits the 'itching ears'... that teaches what people want to hear... that makes the message palatable so that more people are drawn (albeit falsely) to what they think is faith. Yshwe's message was not an easy message... in fact 'there were many that turned away' after they heard what He had to say, because they could not accept it. The apostles' were known to say, 'Master, this is an hard teaching, who can follow it'. There have been many ministers teaching an easier message because it is what suits the human mind. asalaam and blessings to you, CH Of course, we could both be wrong, maybe Yswhe was trying to teach a pagan message to Jews... but then we must reject Yshwe, and can we reject Him? Can we really say that He did not bring a needed thing to the world? Can we say His message was not good? ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 11:01am
Yikes. Are you paying attention? I already told you that there is no "anti-Christ" in Islam. The word "Dajjal" does not mean "anti-Christ. It means "impostor". Furthermore, why can't the Dajjal come before Jesus' return? Jesus will be sent when things have gotten out of hand and the Dajjal has spread his corruption all over the earth. It makes sense that Jesus would come afterwards to destroy the Dajjal and remove the corruption. You must not read your Bible much. Revelation makes it clear that the "anti-Christ" will come before Jesus' second coming. It wouldn't make sense if he came after Jesus had already returned. ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 11:16am
But why? Is it not that they would nothing objectionable to the Dajjal's claim that he is God, since they already believe that Jesus was "God"?
Yikes. So, he worshiped himself? He was a man, a prophet, a worshiper of God, yet you think that he actually "submitted" to himself, but only to the "superior part". That's the incoherence of Christian theology.
And Paul was one of them.
But it was written by men.
You're welcome, even though I know I have made this "clarification" elsewhere.
Ahh, no it wasn't. It was the "teaching" of false prophets like Paul and other shifty individuals who kept their identities secret and who forged documents to give the impressions that Jesus claimed to be "God".
What a load of baloney, especially the part in bold. How convenient it is that only those who have the "holy spirit" will "understand" the incoherent and contradictory Bible. The Jews were offended because he claimed to be a prophet of God and the Messiah. The claim that they were offended because he claimed to be "God" is based on the New Testament accounts, which we know are not reliable. Paul invented his own theology, but to give it appeal, he claimed to have received it from Jesus.
And the easiest way for Christians to deceive themselves is to lionize the false apostle Paul. It just isn't correct.
Hmmm, that sounds like Paul to me. When the Gentiles found it hard to become circumcised or to follow the Jewish dietary laws (such as not allowing the eating of food that had been sacrificed to idols), Paul allowed them to forgo these laws. This is exactly what a false prophet would have done, according to your definition! ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
I already know that you do not see. (the words of Yshwe are recorded
in the Gospels to be read... and the Holy Spirit gives understanding)Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 11:51am
I think it is quite similar to the muslim concept of the higher jihad. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 11:54am
Please don't apply your blasphemous ideas to Muslims. They are your beliefs, not ours. Why have you been ignoring my post about Paul's overriding of Jesus' teaching about the prohibition of eating food sacrificed to idols? ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 11:54am
Your qur'an says essentially the same... allah guides... ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 11:58am
Um, no it doesn't. The Quran urges people to use their common sense. It only says that those people who have earned God's wrath have had their hearts "sealed" so that they will never believe. But, people whom Allah has not condemned can still use their common sense. Why do you keep ignoring my post about Paul's contradictory views on food sacrificed to idols? ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 12:00pm
That would be saying that Paul had all the Gospels... which were written by different people, in different places and languages, in order to record eyewitness oral retelling of the events of Yshwe's life... written. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 12:03pm
Um, no. It would be saying that Paul invented his own "gospel" and spread it around. This "gospel" contradicted Jesus' teachings in more ways than one. Why do you keep ignoring Paul's epic fail regarding the eating of food sacrificed to idols? What are you afraid of? Come on caringheart. I say this with all seriousness. You need to accept the truth about Paul. He was not a true apostle. ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 12:20pm
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Allow me to share the Word of Yshwe, as recorded in the book of Matthew, chapter 15; 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: 11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. 12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? 13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. 14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. 15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable. 16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? 17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man. 21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon. and Mark, chapter 7 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. 13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. 14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand: 15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. 16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear. 17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable. 18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; 19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? 20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. Now I could look at this as a teaching only on the washing of hands... and then say that Paul re-interpreted the meaning of the words of Yshwe... but I see that he only delivered the fullness of the meaning of Yshwe's Word, as he was chosen by God Himself to bring in the gentile people as well as the Jew. (You do have to study and know ALL of the scriptures to see the Truth) I can see that Paul was called by God, so I have no problem with His teaching. I can see no reason why a man of high standing would turn his life around to be persecuted for Christ unless something miraculous happened... and there is the testimony of Ananais as well. 'By the witness of two is a thing established.' Paul did not merely speak of his encounter on his own... there were witnesses. You really must know the fullness of the scriptures. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 12:31pm
This is typical Christian incoherence. Where was the "fullness" in Revelations when Jesus apparently condemned the churches for eating food sacrificed to idols? Was Jesus contradicting himself? It seems pretty clear to me that Jesus was talking about the washing of hands in Matthew. You will notice that the Pharisees didn't harangue Jesus and his disciples for eating non-kosher food. If they were eating something that was forbidden, the Pharisees would have been less concerned with the washing of hands. And as for the "witnesses" to Paul's encounter, the Bible offers contradictory information. I already said that. Does it ever occur to you that he simply made up the encounter and pretended that there were "witnesses"? Who were these "witnesses"? You really must be afraid of the truth. Oh well...
There have been many people who have been willing to undergo persecution for something they believed in. Does that mean that they all experienced something "miraculous". Many Muslims went to their deaths for believing in Islam. They were brutally persecuted. Muhammad (peace be upon him) himself suffered immense persecution. He was stoned. He was attacked. He almost even died during one incident. ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 12:36pm
Ananais would surely have denied the account if it had been made up... and Paul would never have been accepted into the fold by Peter and the other Apostles. There were witnesses to testify to the conversion of Paul, or the Apostles would never have accepted him... and Paul would never have given up his status to become one of the persecuted without some miraculous happening. It's really quite simple, but I understand you must not accept him because it is the only way you can fault the Christian religion and hold to your own. asalaam. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 12:45pm
You did not answer my question. Who were these "witnesses"? See, the problem is that everything you say is based on the Bible, most of which was written by Paul or his followers. The rest were written by anonymous people whom we know nothing about. Who would accept such poor "witnesses"? It's really quite simple, but I understand you must accept the false apostle because it is the only way you can fault the Islamic religion and hold to your own.  ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 1:18pm
Greetings islamispeace, I wanted to take time to study these passages which you ask about, and to have guidance of the Holy Spirit in answering. I see Paul as trying to teach a deeper meaning. I feel that he elaborates on the message of Christ. He is increasing the understanding that, if we understand that there is no God but God, then what meaning or effect does it have on our conscience if we eat food that another believes he has sacrificed to his god, which isn't really a god at all? It is of no effect on us. However we are to guard against causing another to stumble where-in they might think we are eating of food that is sacrificed to another god. Only those of weaker 'conscience', or understanding, might be led astray in eating food that they think has been sacrificed to a god, or idol. I take the message in Revelation to be against tolerating those that do not have clear understanding that there is no God but God... those that may lead others to believe that when they eat of certain foods they are consecrating themselves to other gods. I believe the message in Revelation to be a warning against allowing these to cause others to stumble... those who do not have a clear understanding that no food can be offered to another god or have any effect upon us because there is no other God but God. To be sure that they are teaching that no food can consecrate anyone to a god... that it is not in what we eat that we are consecrated... it is in our hearts that we are consecrated to God... and we must not allow people to be led astray in thinking eating certain food consecrates them to some other god. This is what Jezebel was trying to do... to convince people that they should eat of certain foods (foods sacrificed to idols)... to live as she lived... because they would gain something from it. This is false leading... leading through temptation and falsehood. I think it is helpful to read Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 8, in the NLT(New Living Translation). I couldn't decide if I should post it here. I like to keep replies short and readable, and believe others will go the step further on their own, as I like to do. I read also, Revelation 2, in the NLT(New Living Translation) asalaam. note: the only food that is said to consecrate us to God, is the eating of the bread and the wine... the Manna of Christ... body of Christ... bread of life. note #2: I personally would steer clear of any food that I think may have been offered as a sacrifice, simply because I do not want to invite any unwanted spirits into my life in any way, shape, or form. I do not want to partake of anything not of my God. In a way though this is like saying I do not put my full faith and trust in Yshwe's Word. I perhaps am afraid to take the chance of having a chink in my armor which the devil might find a way through... much as yourself I would guess. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 1:36pm
Greetings islamispeace, This is where-in we dispute. 'most of the Bible' was not 'written by Paul or his followers'. The Word of Yshwe was passed on by His followers, and the followers of Peter and the other Apostles, through oral tradition... these are what were later written down, by several authors, all in different places, but all obviously hearing the same Word. These are the witnesses... the Apostle's who tested his story, and accepted Paul. We can accept these witnesses because they all told the same story, even in many different places, and even recorded in different languages. nothing to do with Paul. If Paul's letters had spoken anything different, these followers would have disputed with him. You must understand that Paul's ministry did not begin until many years after his conversion, and his ministry had always to be approved first by Peter and the other Apostles. Christianity had been around for a decade or two before Paul ever became a disciple and part of the church. If you have read Paul's letters then you should recognize and know that they are not teachings, but they are letters of encouragement... encouraging the followers to remain steadfast in the way in which they had been taught... taught not by Paul, but by the earlier Apostle's. Paul wrote to the established churches. asalaam. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 1:49pm
I just saw this. Actually, I do not seek to find fault with the islamic religion. I seek to understand why muslims believe in it and what they believe they follow. I always had high regard for muslims, until I started looking into their religion, then I became very concerned for them and for what their religion might mean for them and the world. On the surface all appeared well. I believe this is why no western nation feared welcoming muslims into their countries, because they knew little of islam and only very little of muslims. They felt that the western way offered muslims a better way of life which would be appreciated. Who would ever think they would need to feel threatened by another's concept and worship of God? Accepting Paul has nothing to do with my view on islam. In fact I see much of what Paul taught as being very much in line with muslim thinking. I don't need to fault islam to hold to my belief in Yshwe. In fact if I were ever to reject Yshwe I would still not accept islam as the correct path. I feel that I can see very clearly how islam was prophesied. I am rather inclined towards Buddhism. I think Yshwe taught much as the Buddha taught. asalaam and blessings to you, CH ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 7:32pm
You don't need to reject Jesus. You need to reject Paul. For my part, if I were to ever reject Islam (an impossibility by the way), I would become a Deist. I would reject any and all religions in general. In fact, Christianity would not even be on my list. I see no reason for any rational person to ever consider Christianity as a viable religion to believe in. ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 7:40pm
There are 27 books in the New Testament. Thirteen are "epistles" purportedly written by Paul, although some of the letters are considered by scholars to be forgeries. Two books are attributed to Luke, Paul's companion. That makes 15 books that are attributed to either Paul or his follower Luke. The weird thing is that many of the other books are also clear forgeries. For example, 1 and 2 Peter are both considered to be later forgeries. In fact, it is obvious that 2 Peter is a definite forgery because it tries to reassure Christians that the second coming has simply been delayed to allow more people to believe, which is clear proof that it was written by someone near the end of the 1st century and maybe even in the early 2nd century. Since Peter is supposed to have died in the 60s, he could not have been the author. ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 8:50pm
I had to look up deism. I believe in the supernatural and the power of prayer, and in miracles, so deism is out for me. It's been said that the biggest trick the devil has pulled in recent times, is to make people come to not believe in his existence. I believe in our teaching; 'we wrestle with powers of darkness and principalities' To wrestle with powers of darkness we must have powers of light... there must also be a power of light. If we fail to recognize that there are powers of darkness we will fail to keep our lamps lit to fight the darkness.I'm with you on the rejection of religion though. I've said all along that I don't much believe in religion, but I do believe in what Yshwe taught. I can also understand why you have difficulty accepting Christianity. You are not alone in that. There were many that could not accept the teachings of Yshwe. If you are correct and He did not say the things that are attributed to Him, His teaching is still a good one to follow... for the good and betterment of mankind.. and the building of brotherly love, which leads to the higher Love of the One who created. ... fruit of the vine... 'you know them by their fruits' 5 �I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit..." - the Word attributed to Yshwe My choice is still to go with Yshwe, author of Love. Peace and blessings to you, CH ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 08 October 2014 at 2:10am
Islamispeace
Aaah, forgotten, they're all mislead 
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Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 08 October 2014 at 7:19am
Indeed, such as the Gentile Christians whom Paul gave special exemptions.
In that case, the truth is useless and people should only follow what makes them feel better, regardless of whether it is just a pipe dream or not. I would rather follow the truth than deceive myself into living my life based on a lie.
Is that the same "Yshwe" who will burn people in hell for eternity? Or the same "Yshwe" who said: "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them�bring them here and kill them in front of me." Or the same "Yshwe" who said: "If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. 6 But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." "Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth." "So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds." ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 08 October 2014 at 11:10am
Greetings islamispeace, No. I was referring to the early Jews. I was referring to this: These are the words of Yshwe as recorded in the book called John: 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48 I am that bread of life. 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. a teaching which correlates with the teaching of Christ, recorded in the other 3 Gospels; then He broke bread gave it to His disciples and said, take this and eat this is my body which is given up for you then He took the cup, gave it to His disciples and said, take this and drink of it this My blood, the blood of the new and everlasting covenant when you eat this bread and drink this cup this is my body which is given up for you do this in memory of Me Matthew 26 And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples, 2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified. 26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. 27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. the Jews always had what was called a table of the shewbread in the Temple or Tabernacle... Showbread (Hebrew: לחם הפנים lechem haPānīm, literally: "Bread of the Presence" I think I remember hearing once that Yshwe said, 'I am that shewbread'. The study of the shewbread is an interesting study also. Was Yshwe once again speaking in parables? or does God dwell with us still, in the bread and in the wine?
What is Truth? I would say the Truth is apparent by what it produces, but bad things were produced in the name of Christianity once... just as bad things are being produced in the name of islam now. So what is Truth? We must discern, and I believe it is according to Yshwe's Word... 'you know by the fruit'... if the Word produces good fruit then it is guidance from God. I think you make my point... we must be careful to discern, what is Truth... that is why I say 'let us seek Truth together'. asalaam, CH ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 08 October 2014 at 11:39am
I thought I would address these two things also. You do understand that 'the sword of my mouth' is a reference to God's Word... the scriptures...
As to the second; you understand that it is a reference to the consequences of following evil ways (i.e., allegorized as Jezebel) those who are sexually promiscuous suffer the consequences of those actions in the form of sexual diseases... diseases which also cause infertility and miscarriage, not to mention abortion. People suffer the consequences of immoral actions... ('a bed of suffering', loss of children and child bearing capability) ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 10 October 2014 at 8:16am
I've come to this in my mind more than once The trouble I see with islam Islam stands on deconstruction Whereas, Christianity builds on Judaism islam in order to stand, must deconstruct therefore it must stand on rubble Christianity and Judaism stand on a firm foundation... neither tears down its foundation as regards the dispute over Paul; Yshwe Himself was one who taught that the laws of man were of no matter... Yshwe Himself, in the pharisees eyes, broke the law... because He was showing that He, God's Law, is higher than the things which men regarded as God's law. He 'worked' on the Sabbath, healing men He and His Disciples ate with 'unwashen hands' Yshwe was showing that He was higher than the laws of men... so we have to ask and determine for ourselves, was Yshwe a false prophet? This is why He so angered the Jewish religious leaders and people... He behaved as above their laws... the laws they proclaimed as from God Himself... but were they laws of God, or laws of man... given by Moses for the good of men. Wasn't Yshwe trying to show that while the laws of Moses were important, there was a higher Law meant to govern mens hearts... hearts first. It wasn't Paul who changed things... Paul taught as Yshwe taught. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 10 October 2014 at 9:28am
This is just more baloney. I think many Jews would disagree with you that "Christianity and Judaism stand on a firm foundation... neither tears down its foundation". Anyone with eyes to see would realize how ridiculous this statement is. Christianity is so different from Judaism that the early Christians felt it necessary to break away from the Jews, who emphasized loyalty to the law. Christians, especially the Gentile Christians, felt they had no need for the law, and who could blame them, since Paul obviously gave them a free pass. He even allowed them to eat food sacrificed to idols! How's that for "deconstruction"!  The special pleading that Christians used to break away from Judaism can be seen in your post as well. The Laws of Moses "were important" they say. Oh but Jesus allegedly said that there was a "higher law" as well. Therefore, even though the Mosaic law was "important", the special Christians don't need to follow it anymore. Well, how convenient! ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 10 October 2014 at 9:31am
"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them�bring them here and kill them in front of me." I guess that's also "allegory", eh? Jesus: "Kill them!" Christians: "What, do you mean literally?" Jesus: "Er, no. I was just being facetious." Christians: "So, how should we kill them?" Jesus: "Er, kill them with kindness. Yeah, that's it. Kill them with kindness!" ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 10 October 2014 at 8:50pm
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Greetings islamispeace, Sorry you don't understand. Muslims also have the concept of higher jihad... or a higher law to govern over the lower. asalaam, CH ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 10 October 2014 at 9:14pm
You're the one who doesn't understand. The "higher jihad" entails fighting one's inclinations to sinful behavior. Muslims do not forsake the law for the "higher jihad". It goes hand in hand with it. The success of the "higher jihad" is incumbent upon obeying Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) and that means obeying His Laws. ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 11 October 2014 at 10:08pm
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3:93
All food was lawful unto the Children of Israel, save that which Israel
forbade himself, (in days) before the Torah was revealed. Say: Produce
the Torah and read it (unto us) if ye are truthful. Isn't this an example of how laws of men encroached on the Law of God? ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 12 October 2014 at 10:22am
Um, no. This is referring to the prophet Jacob (peace be upon him), who had forbidden himself some of the lawful food for a specific reason. The scholars are unsure if it was because he was ill or because he abstained because he did not like those foods. However, what is certain is that this food was not prohibited but later on, the Jews wrongly considered them prohibited for themselves as well. This verse does not say that there are no dietary restrictions in the Law of Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He). There definitely are, as other verses make clear. ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 28 January 2015 at 6:47pm
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"The Mahdi will make a peace agreement with the Jews and the West for 7 years. The reign of Mahdi lasts 7 years, in which he establishes Islam" Do muslims not realize that this fits perfectly the description in the Biblical scriptures of the anti-Christ? ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |