Interfaith Dialogue - JESUS; I AM A MAN

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JESUS; I AM A MAN

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Topic: JESUS; I AM A MAN

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Subject: JESUS; I AM A MAN
Date Posted: 30 January 2013 at 3:07am

John 8:40
New International Version (NIV)
40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me,A MAN who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things.

Replies:

Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 21 February 2013 at 9:54pm

Hello Mahdi

Yes. Jesus was a man. But as a man Gods fullness grew in him to the point at his crucifixion and resurrection he had Gods complete fullness.

And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.

Luke 2:52

There are many other things Jesus said in the Injil that confirm all of God within him. For example �

John 8:24 - �Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.�

John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, �Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.�

John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, �I and My Father are one.� Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, �Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?� The Jews answered Him, saying, �For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.�

John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, �I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.�

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, �My Lord and my God!�

Colossians 1:19. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him.

Also consider in Matthew. 4:10 that Jesus said to worship God only. But yet Jesus is worshipped and He receives worship. For example �

4.Matt. 14:33 - "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God�s Son!"

5.Matt. 28:9 - "And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him."

6.John 9:35-38 - "Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" 36 He answered and said, "And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37 Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you." 38 And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him."

7.Heb. 1:6 - "And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'"

What are human beings? Just lumps of meat? We are divine. You also have God within you and can become one with God.

The Jews of Jesus day also criticized him for claiming to be God and man.

If you read John 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'?

Jesus is quoting the Prophet King David from Psalm82.6

"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 23 February 2013 at 1:56pm

Experiential wrote:

Hello Mahdi

Yes. Jesus was a man. But as a man Gods fullness grew in him to the point at his crucifixion and resurrection he had Gods complete fullness.

And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Luke 2:52

<o:p>�</o:p>

There are many other things Jesus said in the Injil that confirm all of God within him. For example �

<o:p>�</o:p>

John 8:24 - �Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.�<o:p></o:p>

<o:p>�</o:p>

John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, �Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.�<o:p></o:p>

<o:p>�</o:p>

John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, �I and My Father are one.� Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, �Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?� The Jews answered Him, saying, �For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.�<o:p></o:p>

<o:p>�</o:p>

John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, �I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.�<o:p></o:p>

<o:p>�</o:p>

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, �My Lord and my God!�<o:p></o:p>

<o:p>�</o:p>

Colossians� 1:19. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him.

<o:p>�</o:p>

<o:p></o:p>�

Also consider in Matthew. 4:10 that Jesus said to worship God only. But yet Jesus is worshipped and He receives worship. For example �

<o:p>�</o:p>

4.Matt. 14:33 - "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God�s Son!" <o:p></o:p>

<o:p>�</o:p>

5.Matt. 28:9 - "And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them.� And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him." <o:p></o:p>

<o:p>�</o:p>

6.John 9:35-38 - "Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"� 36 He answered and said, "And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?"� 37 Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you."� 38 And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him." <o:p></o:p>

<o:p>�</o:p>

7.Heb. 1:6 - "And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'"<o:p></o:p>

<o:p>�</o:p>

What are human beings? Just lumps of meat? We are divine. You also have God within you and can become one with God.

<o:p>�</o:p>

The Jews of Jesus day also criticized him for claiming to be God and man.

If you read John 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'?<o:p></o:p>

<o:p>�</o:p>

Jesus is quoting the Prophet King David from Psalm82.6

<o:p>�</o:p>

"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'� <o:p></o:p>

<o:p>�</o:p>

we are all 'gods' then.

Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 25 February 2013 at 12:43am

Yes.

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 26 February 2013 at 9:55am

Experiential wrote:

Yes.

i make everything lawful unto myself and admit myself to heaven since i can create one of my own.

Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 27 February 2013 at 8:17pm

Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

Experiential wrote:

Yes.

i make everything lawful unto myself and admit myself to heaven since i can create one of my own.

No. While humans are like Gods they are not God.

Jesus Christ The Messiah was unique. He was the only begotten one of God. Meaning he was the only one that was the radiance of God.

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 28 February 2013 at 10:04am

Experiential wrote:

Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

Experiential wrote:

Yes.

i make everything lawful unto myself and admit myself to heaven since i can create one of my own.

No. While humans are like Gods they are not God.

Jesus Christ The Messiah was unique. He was the only begotten one of God. Meaning he was the only one that was the radiance of God.

1. what does begotten mean?
2. then do not use the word God loosely. we are either Gods or we are not. choose one.

Posted By: Nur_Ilahi
Date Posted: 28 February 2013 at 6:54pm

Experiential wrote:

Jesus Christ The Messiah was unique. He was the only begotten one of God. Meaning he was the only one that was the radiance of God.

I don't find the creation of Jesus unique. If you want to compare, the creation of Adam was more unique.

Indeed Allah Our Creator is The Greatest. Allahuakbar!

-------------
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.

Posted By: Rational
Date Posted: 01 March 2013 at 5:55pm

Let's not forget the creation of Eve. That was also unique.

Indeed Allah is the Greatest. SubhanAllah

-------------
الله

Posted By: Webber
Date Posted: 01 March 2013 at 6:34pm

Rational wrote:

Let's not forget the creation of Eve. That was also unique.

Indeed Allah is the Greatest. SubhanAllah

And they've been ribbbing men ever since.

-------------
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26

Posted By: Rational
Date Posted: 02 March 2013 at 4:45am

Webber wrote:

Rational wrote:

Let's not forget the creation of Eve. That was also unique.

Indeed Allah is the Greatest. SubhanAllah

And they've been ribbbing men ever since.

Not sure what you mean. Eve had no father or mother. Do you mean to say that Eve is not unique in the way she was created? I might be missunderstanding.

-------------
الله

Posted By: Webber
Date Posted: 02 March 2013 at 2:05pm

Rational wrote:

Webber wrote:

Rational wrote:

Let's not forget the creation of Eve. That was also unique.

Indeed Allah is the Greatest. SubhanAllah

And they've been ribbbing men ever since.

Not sure what you mean. Eve had no father or mother. Do you mean to say that Eve is not unique in the way she was created? I might be missunderstanding.

Sorry, ribbing, an expression that means teasing, annoying, etc, as in a poke in the ribs kinda thing.

-------------
I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26

Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 02 March 2013 at 3:27pm

Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

Experiential wrote:

Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

Experiential wrote:

Yes.

i make everything lawful unto myself and admit myself to heaven since i can create one of my own.

No. While humans are like Gods they are not God.

1. what does begotten mean?
2. then do not use the word God loosely. we are either Gods or we are not. choose one.

Hi Mahdi.

Begotten means � single of its kind; only.

We are �like� gods.

Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 02 March 2013 at 3:28pm

Nur_Ilahi wrote:

Experiential wrote:

Jesus Christ The Messiah was unique. He was the only begotten one of God. Meaning he was the only one that was the radiance of God.

I don't find the creation of Jesus unique. If you want to compare, the creation of Adam was more unique.

Indeed Allah Our Creator is The Greatest. Allahuakbar!

Yes the creation of Adam (and Eve) was special. As was the creation of the universe, animals and life itself.

However Gods Spirit becoming man to redeem man is ultimate.

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 04 March 2013 at 10:43pm

Experiential wrote:

Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

Experiential wrote:

Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

Experiential wrote:

Yes.

i make everything lawful unto myself and admit myself to heaven since i can create one of my own.

No. While humans are like Gods they are not God.

1. what does begotten mean? 2. then do not use the word God loosely. we are either Gods or we are not. choose one.

Hi Mahdi.

Begotten means � single of its kind; only.

<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p>�W</o:p>e are �like� gods.

<o:p>�</o:p>

Adj. 1. begotten - (of offspring) generated by procreation; "naturally begotten child"
biological - of parents and children; related by blood; "biological child"

be�get
/biˈget/
Verb
(typically of a man, sometimes of a man and a woman) Bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction.

Synonyms
generate - breed - procreate - engender - father

Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 05 March 2013 at 1:08pm

You forget the Injil was written in Greek. �Begotten� is an English word from the Greek �monogenēs�, which means �

single of its kind, only

a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)

b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God.

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 06 March 2013 at 1:24pm

Experiential wrote:

You forget the Injil was written in Greek. �Begotten� is an English word from the Greek ��monogenēs�, which means �

<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p>�</o:p>

single of its kind, only

a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)

b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God.

so, mistranslation. tell your Bible translators to do a better job next time.

Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 07 March 2013 at 1:56am

Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

single of its kind, only

a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)

b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God.

so, mistranslation. tell your Bible translators to do a better job next time.

No. you need to do a better job of understanding the Bible.

Do you read Arabic ?

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 08 March 2013 at 1:18am

Experiential wrote:

Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

single of its kind, only

a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)

b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God.

so, mistranslation. tell your Bible translators to do a better job next time.

No. you need to do a better job of understanding the Bible.

Do you read Arabic ?

unless monogenes in greek =begotten in english, it is a mistranslation.

besides, David is also the 'begotten' son of God.
Psalm 2:7
King James Version (KJV)
7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

monogenes(μονογενὴς)The expression itself is a combination of two words, monos (meaning only) and genes ("kind" or "type." )the phrase then means "unique" or "one of a kind."

therefore, monogenes does not mean begotten. 'unique son' or 'one and only son' would be accurate in john 3:16

the hebrew word used in psalm 2:7 is yalad (ילד) which actually means begotten.

Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 10 March 2013 at 10:29pm

Mahdi Said

unless monogenes in greek =begotten in english, it is a mistranslation.

My Reply

This is not mistranslation. Its just that English and Greek are not comparable languages.

Mahdi Said

besides, David is also the 'begotten' son of God.

Psalm 2:7 . King James Version (KJV)

I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

My Reply

Its obviously not about David. Nor any other ancient Jewish King for that matter. Jesus fulfills this passage in ways David, Solomon, Jehoshaphat, Hezekiah, and particularly Ahab, never came close to fulfilling.

Which ancient Jewish King received the entire world as his inheritance?

David never had the nations as his inheritance or the ends of the earth as his possession. (verse 8)

Also Jesus (and the Jews of his day) as documented in the Ijil disagree with you. In Mathew 22.44 answered similar questions for the Jews as you are asking. Jesus quoted Psalm 110.

While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, Saying, What think you of Christ? Whose son is he? They say to him, The son of David. He said to them, How then does David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit you on my right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool?

If David then calls him Lord, how is he his son?

And no man was able to answer him a word, neither dared any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Mathew 22.44

Mahdi Said

Monogenes (μονογενὴς) The expression itself is a combination of two words, monos (meaning only) and genes ("kind" or "type." ) the phrase then means "unique" or "one of a kind."

therefore, monogenes does not mean begotten. 'unique son' or 'one and only son' would be accurate in john 3:16

My Reply

You are defeating your own argument. You are confirming what Ive said all along about the Greek word monogenes (meaning only) and genes ("kind" or "type�). Christ Jesus The Messiah was The �Only� and �Type.�

However you want to confuse it, it still amounts to the same thing.

And yes the word yalad (ילד) means begotten. But again looking at Psalm 2 and the history of Israel, which ancient Jewish King received the entire world as his inheritance or possession apart from Christ Jesus the Messiah?

If your point is to prove that Christ Jesus was not unique or of �One of a kind� how do you explain Psalm 110 which as it reads makes it clear that there is One that is unique?

Psalm 110 supports and provides context to Psalm 2.

Psalm 110 makes it clear The Messiah would be a priest like Melchizedek (not from Levi whom the Jewish priests descended from). He would be a priest for all nations, not just Israel. He would be a king-priest, combining two offices. His reign would be without beginning and without end.

Isaiah 52 and 53 also provide support and context to Psalm 2 in One which is unique, One of a kind. More than just a human being or �son� of God.

You haven�t refuted my quoting of Isaiah except to say it is �past tense� � which I have adequately responded to.

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 26 March 2013 at 2:58am

Psalm 2:Why do the nations conspire [a] 1 and the peoples plot in vain?
The kings of the earth rise up 2 and the rulers band together against the LORD and against his anointed, saying,
�Let us break their chains 3 and throw off their shackles.� The One enthroned in heaven
laughs; 4 the Lord scoffs at them.
He rebukes them in his anger 5 and terrifies them in his wrath, saying,
�I have installed my king 6 on Zion, my holy mountain.� He said to me, �You are my
son; today I have become your father.
Ask me, 8 and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession.
You will break them with a
rod of iron; 9 you will dash them to pieces like pottery.� Therefore, you kings, be wise; 10 be warned, you rulers of the earth.
Serve the LORD with fear 11 and celebrate his rule with trembling.
Kiss his son, or he will be
angry 12 and your way will lead to your destruction,
for his wrath can flare up in a
moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

Obviously, this passageis about David at a time nations were plotting against him, so he told them how he was the son of God and had been assured victory over all nations by God if he asked therefore his enemies are better off as his allies or face the wrath of God.

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 26 March 2013 at 3:32am

PSALMS, CHAPTER 110 A psalm of David. The LORD says to my lord: �Sit at my right hand, while I make your enemies your footstool.� The scepter of your might: the LORD extends your strong scepter from Zion. Have dominion over your enemies! Yours is princely power from the day of your birth. In holy splendor before the daystar, like dew I begot you. The LORD has sworn and will not waver: �You are a priest forever in the manner of Melchizedek.� At your right hand is the Lord, who crushes kings on the day of his wrath, Who judges nations, heaps up corpses, crushes heads across the wide earth, Who drinks from the brook by the wayside and thus holds high his head. * [Psalm 110> A royal Psalm in which a court singer recites three oracles in which God assures the king that his enemies are conquered (Ps 110:1�2), makes the king �son� in traditional adoption language (Ps 110:3), gives priestly status to the king and promises to be with him in future military ventures (Ps 110:4�7).

Psalm 110 is about David.

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 26 March 2013 at 3:58am

About Isaiah 52 and 53, whatever is in past tense cannot be taken as prophecy.

Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 06 April 2013 at 8:08pm

Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

Psalm 2:Why do the nations conspire [a] 1 and the peoples plot in vain?
The kings of the earth rise up 2 and the rulers band together against the LORD and against his anointed, saying,
�Let us break their chains 3 and throw off their shackles.� The One enthroned in heaven
laughs; 4 the Lord scoffs at them.
He rebukes them in his anger 5 and terrifies them in his wrath, saying,
�I have installed my king 6 on Zion, my holy mountain.� He said to me, �You are my
son; today I have become your father.
Ask me, 8 and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession.
You will break them with a
rod of iron; 9 you will dash them to pieces like pottery.� Therefore, you kings, be wise; 10 be warned, you rulers of the earth.
Serve the LORD with fear 11 and celebrate his rule with trembling.
Kiss his son, or he will be
angry 12 and your way will lead to your destruction,
for his wrath can flare up in a
moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

Obviously, this passageis about David at a time nations were plotting against him, so he told them how he was the son of God and had been assured victory over all nations by God if he asked therefore his enemies are better off as his allies or face the wrath of God.

David never had the nations as his inheritance or the ends of the earth as his possession. (verse 8).

Its obviously not about David. Jesus fulfills this passage in ways David never came close to fulfilling.

Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 06 April 2013 at 8:09pm

Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

PSALMS, CHAPTER 110 A psalm of David. The LORD says to my lord: �Sit at my right hand, while I make your enemies your footstool.� The scepter of your might: the LORD extends your strong scepter from Zion. Have dominion over your enemies! Yours is princely power from the day of your birth. In holy splendor before the daystar, like dew I begot you. The LORD has sworn and will not waver: �You are a priest forever in the manner of Melchizedek.� At your right hand is the Lord, who crushes kings on the day of his wrath, Who judges nations, heaps up corpses, crushes heads across the wide earth, Who drinks from the brook by the wayside and thus holds high his head. * [Psalm 110> A royal Psalm in which a court singer recites three oracles in which God assures the king that his enemies are conquered (Ps 110:1�2), makes the king �son� in traditional adoption language (Ps 110:3), gives priestly status to the king and promises to be with him in future military ventures (Ps 110:4�7).

Psalm 110 is about David.

Then why would David say The LORD says to my lord ?

Also David was not even a priest in the manner of Levi (who was the ancestor of the Jewish priesthood) let a lone a priest in manner of Melchizedek

Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 06 April 2013 at 8:10pm

Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

About Isaiah 52 and 53, whatever is in past tense cannot be taken as prophecy.

You don�t understand how prophetic utterances work.

In Hebrew when something was absolutely going to happen in the future, it is often spoken of as if it had already occurred in the past.

Hebrew scholars are familiar with this idiom and refer to it as �the prophetic perfect,� �the historic sense of prophecy,� and the �perfective of confidence.�

A couple of other examples are -

In Genesis 6, God told Noah to build the ark. After telling him how to build it, the Hebrew text reads that God said, �And you have come into the ark.� The ark was not even built at that time.

The prophetic perfect in Genesis 6:18 makes it clear that Noah would absolutely enter the ark.

In Numbers 21:34. When Israel was coming out of the wilderness, Og, the king of Bashan, and his army came out to fight them. God wanted to assure Moses that Israel would win the battle, so He said, �Do not be afraid of him, for I have handed him over to you�.

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 07 April 2013 at 10:09am

Experiential wrote:

Then why would David say The LORD says to my lord ?

Also David was not even a priest in the manner of Levi (who was the ancestor of the Jewish priesthood) let a lone a priest in manner of Melchizedek

Did you read the footnote?

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 07 April 2013 at 10:14am

Experiential wrote:

Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

About Isaiah 52 and 53, whatever is in past tense cannot be taken as prophecy.

You don�t understand how prophetic utterances work.

In Hebrew when something was absolutely going to happen in the future, it is often spoken of as if it had already occurred in the past.

Hebrew scholars are familiar with this idiom and refer to it as �the prophetic perfect,� �the historic sense of prophecy,� and the �perfective of confidence.�

<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>

A couple of other examples are -

<o:p> </o:p>

In Genesis 6, God told Noah to build the ark. After telling him how to build it, the Hebrew text reads that God said, �And you have come into the ark.� The ark was not even built at that time.

The prophetic perfect in Genesis 6:18 makes it clear that Noah would absolutely enter the ark.

<o:p> </o:p>

In Numbers 21:34. When <?:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on">Israel</st1:country-region> was coming out of the wilderness, Og, the king of <st1:place w:st="on">Bashan</st1:place>, and his army came out to fight them. God wanted to assure Moses that <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Israel</st1:place></st1:country-region> would win the battle, so He said, �Do not be afraid of him, for I have handed him over to you�.

past tense is past tense.

Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 09 April 2013 at 10:17pm

Mahdi Said

Did you read the footnote?

My Reply

Im not interested in footnotes. Im interested in what the scriptures have to say.

Mahdi Said

past tense is past tense.

My Reply

Timeless prophetic utterance is timeless prophetic utterance.

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 13 April 2013 at 3:48am

Experiential wrote:

Then why would David say The LORD says to my lord ?

the firt LORD is God and the second David. This Psalm was not recited by David but by somebody else about David. God made David a priest in order of Melchizedek, who says being a levite is a requirement.

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 13 April 2013 at 3:54am

psalm 110 is a royal psalm, if you know what that is. Get more information about the Psalms before you reply.

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 13 April 2013 at 4:28am

funny how you have to invent 'prophetic' tense to make the Bible make sense.

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 13 April 2013 at 4:28am

funny how you have to invent 'prophetic tense' to make the Bible make sense.

Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 17 April 2013 at 3:39pm

Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

funny how you have to invent 'prophetic tense' to make the Bible make sense.

No invention about it. As stated there is no such thing as tense in Hebrew grammar. In reality Hebrew verbs do not take past, present and future forms.

Here are some other examples of prophetic tense in the Tanak (Old Testament) for you-

Jeremiah 23:2, Amos 5:2, Isaiah 5:13, Isaiah 10:28-32, Isaiah 5:13, Isaiah 10:28-32, Jeremiah 4:23-26, Jeremiah 4:27-28 and Jeremiah 48:4

Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 17 April 2013 at 3:40pm

Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

psalm 110 is a royal psalm, if you know what that is. Get more information about the Psalms before you reply.

A Royal Psalm. Yes that�s correct, a Royal Psalm about the Messiah, not David.

As Ive pointed out to you a few times now, David never judged the nations or crushed the rulers of the whole earth �

He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead and crushing the rulers of the whole earth. Psalm 110:6

This is obviously work of The Messiah, not David.

Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 17 April 2013 at 3:41pm

Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

Experiential wrote:

Then why would David say The LORD says to my lord ?

Firstly according to the Bible itself, Psalm 110 is a psalm of David, beginning �

�a Psalm of David�. Not a Psalm of �somebody else�.

Secondly look how it reads The Lord says to MY Lord � so how can David refer to himself as Lord when he says MY Lord ?

Thirdly commentators agree David wrote this Psalm and it was probably composed by David after the Prophet Nathan's prophesy. 2 Samuel 7, 1 Chronicles 17.

Fourthly, Isa himself (PBUH) in the Injil said David wrote it and what�s more, Jews of Isas day also believed David wrote it.-

"And as Jesus taught in the temple, he said, �How can the scribes say that the Christ is the son of David? David himself, in the Holy Spirit, declared, "The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet." David himself calls him Lord. So how is he his son?� And the great throng heard him gladly." Mark 12:35-36

Isa is more qualified than you on this subject.

Fifth point being Ahimelech and Abiathar were actually the High Priests during the time of David. See Numbers 27.21.and I Samuel 21.1-6. Also Ira the Jairite was David's personal priest 2 Samuel 20:26. David was not in a priestly role.

You state God made David a priest in order of Melchizedek. However David never fulfilled the role of a priest. Not in the line of Levi or Melchizedek.

David was a King yes, but priest no.

You ask who says being a Levite priest was a requirement? Well God actually!

See Numbers 3.12 -13.

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 17 April 2013 at 11:43pm

David wrote it. Look up 'royal psalm'

Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 19 April 2013 at 3:35pm

Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

David wrote it. Look up 'royal psalm'

And back in your post dated 28 July you said David didn't write it ?????

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 20 April 2013 at 12:34am

Experiential wrote:

Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

psalm 110 is a royal psalm, if you know what that is. Get more information about the Psalms before you reply.

A Royal Psalm. Yes that�s correct, a Royal Psalm about the Messiah, not David.

As Ive pointed out to you a few times now, David never judged the nations or crushed the rulers of the whole earth �

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He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead and crushing the rulers of the whole earth. Psalm 110:6

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This is obviously work of The Messiah, not David.

it is a royal psalm about David written by David.

Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 21 April 2013 at 5:42am

Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

Experiential wrote:

Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

psalm 110 is a royal psalm, if you know what that is. Get more information about the Psalms before you reply.

A Royal Psalm. Yes that�s correct, a Royal Psalm about the Messiah, not David.

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This is obviously work of The Messiah, not David.

it is a royal psalm about David written by David.

And this is what you said on 28 July. I am quoting you -

"This Psalm was not recited by David but by somebody else about David."

Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 30 April 2013 at 11:56am

So the bottom line is that Jesus was a man, a prophet, a beloved of God.
Even some parts of present versions of the Bible describe him as a servant of God, who served and worshiped God. Only God do not worship anyone, nor call anyone "my God" like Jesus did.
Hasan

-------------
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

Posted By: Experiential
Date Posted: 05 May 2013 at 12:31am

honeto wrote:

So the bottom line is that Jesus was a man, a prophet, a beloved of God.
Even some parts of present versions of the Bible describe him as a servant of God, who served and worshiped God. Only God do not worship anyone, nor call anyone "my God" like Jesus did.
Hasan

The bottom line is Christ Jesus The Messiah was a man who had the complete fullness of God The Son within him. Christ Jesus The Messiah was the �Sonship� of God.

God The Son does not mean he was a �son� in the same sense of �daughter or son� but rather the creating and inheriting aspect of God made human.

God The Son became man so man (and woman) could become �sons of God�. You also can become one with God as a son of God.

You say �Even some parts of present versions of the Bible describe him as a servant of God, who served and worshiped God. �

Please name those versions and the verses you are thinking of.

Posted By: bronaz
Date Posted: 25 May 2013 at 10:10pm

when someone says that Jesus Is a man, I recall the story in the Bible of Elijah when to prove that Yahweh was the true God, he accepted the sacrifice while BAAL did not do anything.
We can debate all we want, only when we see with the eyes and hear with our ears will we believe.
To prove that Jesus is God, he gave all Christians the power to heal as told in the last chapter of Mark.
He said to them, �Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who does not believe will be condemned. 17 These signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands, and whatever poison they drink will not harm them; they will place their hands on the sick and they will be well.�
If one does a search on Youtube for Pete Cabreras, Todd White etc, you will see the healing power in the name of Jesus, which cannot be said of Allah or Prophet Mohammed. If the Name of Jesus can heal then you can imagine what he can do when he is present.

Posted By: nothing
Date Posted: 26 May 2013 at 6:52pm

bronaz wrote:

To prove that Jesus is God, he gave all Christians the power to heal as told in the last chapter of Mark.

It's all good as long as it is consistent. Remember, the no: 1 competitors are the medical doctors. Medical centres and hospitals are full in here, and they do it in the name of money, well mostly. Yet even that, we come to them with faith and hope - hope to be healed from illness.

Posted By: bronaz
Date Posted: 27 May 2013 at 9:04am

People dont have faith...because they believe more in money than in God. I just meant to say that using the name of Jesus can get you healings provided there is faith...Can you be healed instantly taking the name of Money or any other thing?

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 31 May 2013 at 9:21am

bronaz wrote:

when someone says that Jesus Is a man, I recall the story in the Bible of Elijah when to prove that Yahweh was the true God, he accepted the sacrifice while BAAL did not do anything.We can debate all we want, only when we see with the eyes and hear with our ears will we believe. To prove that Jesus is God, he gave all Christians the power to heal as told in the last chapter of Mark. He said to them, �Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who does not believe will be condemned. 17 These signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands, and whatever poison they drink will not harm them; they will place their hands on the sick and they will be well.� If one does a search on Youtube for Pete Cabreras, Todd White etc, you will see the healing power in the name of Jesus, which cannot be said of Allah or Prophet Mohammed. If the Name of Jesus can heal then you can imagine what he can do when he is present.

ok. Since power is to all christians, go and heal at least one AIDS patient. If you can verifiably do that, i will convert. Here is your chance to win a soul for Jesus.

Posted By: bronaz
Date Posted: 02 June 2013 at 2:00am

send me the patient and I am sure Jesus will heal if they have the faith in him

Posted By: nothing
Date Posted: 02 June 2013 at 1:20pm

bronaz wrote:

People dont have faith...because they believe more in money than in God. I just meant to say that using the name of Jesus can get you healings provided there is faith...Can you be healed instantly taking the name of Money or any other thing?

Doctors don't place "Have faith in me" first to heal their patients, instead they inform the patient their conditions from their side of view before they do anything. It is called consultation. But the Christian healers asking the price first to believe in Jesus before the action even started as a precondition for their works.

I am using "Nothing" as my name here. If I have the power to heal the sick I do it for free, and they don't need to know who or where I am. I would be very happy man if I can relieve tiny bit of someone else suffering, for free. But I guess I am much more tune with theology than those of thousand years ago.

Posted By: bronaz
Date Posted: 02 June 2013 at 7:33pm

Healing through prayer is not called "Faith Healing" for nothing. No one would ask to be cured from someone who couldnt do it.
In the case of doctors we get their expertise in exchange for money, In the case of "Faith Healing" you get healing due to faith

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 04 June 2013 at 5:01am

bronaz wrote:

Healing through prayer is not called "Faith Healing" for nothing. No one would ask to be cured from someone who couldnt do it. In the case of doctors we get their expertise in exchange for money, In the case of "Faith Healing" you get healing due to faith

stop making things up.

Posted By: bronaz
Date Posted: 06 June 2013 at 9:02am

Could you please clarify what I am making up?

Posted By: Mahdi The Seeke
Date Posted: 08 June 2013 at 5:23am

bronaz wrote:

Could you please � clarify what I am making up?�

the bible says that those who believe in Jesus will be able to heal the sick and this ability will be a sign that follows Jesus believers. now stop making excuses and go to your nearest hospital and heal people, unless you do not really believe in Jesus/ the Bible.