understanding Islam
Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Description: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23640
Printed Date: 26 April 2024 at 4:42pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: understanding Islam
Posted By: Caringheart
Subject: understanding Islam
Date Posted: 04 August 2012 at 7:47pm
|
Where there is coercion, pursuing those with different understanding of religion with oppression and the so-called penalty of apostasy, dividing the world into two warring camps, camp of Belief and camp of Disbelief, practicing random killing, even if it means killing Muslims in the process, rather legalizing their extermination for achieving the higher more noble goal of establishing the alleged Islamic state, what is worse than that, is the fact under such state, it is permissible for the head of state to extinguish one third of the populace for the benefit of the remaining two thirds. They consider him to be the Owner of the people, the land and whatever it carries. The same philosophy the Umayyad followed during their Caliphate, followed by the Abbasid who theorized, canonized and sanctified it on religious grounds. The Memluk followed suit, then the Ottomans and now practiced by the Shiite state in Iran and the Sunnite in Saudi Arabia. Along those lines, the moderate Muslim brotherhood dreams, likewise, the extremist Bin Laden brothers. In conclusion: Islam is Peace to be in a state of peace with others and to interact with them in peace. Every person peaceful in his conduct is a Muslim in essence, regardless of his creed. Islam in dealing with Almighty Allah is to submit and yield to Him, glory be to Him. It is not for any one to interfere in others� beliefs and convictions through coercion or deprivation. It is the natural right for every peaceful person to migrate with his beliefs and convictions and to practice it in whichever method he prefers. A genuine Islamic state is the one that guarantees freedom of religion, belief, thought and practice. People in it enjoy justice and kindness; they establish practice and enjoy Political Justice: DEMOCRACY. It is not the duty of an Islamic State to bring people into paradise or guide them to Truth, since it is a personal responsibility. Whoever follows guidance, it is for his benefit, and whoever goes astray, the consequence of that falls on him. The duty and function of the Islamic State is to serve its citizens, guarantees their rights and preserve their dignity. By that definition, no Islamic state exists in our times, rather oppressive regimes raising the banners of Ethnicity, Nationality or Religious slogans, all of which to deceive people. Islamic State exist in the West, Europe, America, Canada and Japan, where there is democracy, justice and human rights, that is why Arabs and Muslims migrate to the West, fleeing with their religion or in pursuit of making a living and a free dignified life. You will never find a European or an American migrating to an Arab country, fleeing with his religion. Even Israel, with its secularism and its brand of democracy is better than those unjust oppressive Muslim States. If the doors of immigrations to Israel were open to non-Jews, millions of Arabs and Muslims would migrate to it. This means, the true belonging for Man is where he finds his freedom, dignity and rights, that is how belonging to Islam coincides with genuine belonging of Man. It is belonging to freedom and justice; but if justice is lost and freedom is confiscated at home, then Almighty Allah�s land is very spacious, where you can find equality, justice, freedom and equal opportunity. It is a long article but I encourage the reading. In it you will find all the supporting Quran'ic surah's. http://www.ahl-alquran.com/English/show_article.php?main_id=5864 |
Replies:
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 07 August 2012 at 1:51pm
|
Caringheart,
I think your title is wrong for this kind of discussion. May be "Political situation of Muslims in 21st century" might seem a more appropriate title. Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 08 August 2012 at 2:31am
|
Caringheart has an agenda on this forum and it is to poison the minds of the muslims worldwide. Ever since I joined this forum s/he has stealthily tried to discredit the religion of Islam, prophet Muhammed (pbuh) and Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. Topics and debates are veering off to Chrisitian fundamentalism.
|
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 08 August 2012 at 7:08pm
Do you or do you not believe in the Qur'an? I only share what the Qur'an says. I take offense to you making the comments you make about me. I have no agenda other than peace and understanding. There is no peace without understanding, and there is no understanding without open communication. There is no progress. Also you attribute an awful lot of power to one little person trying to find Muslims to talk to, to better understand their thinking and way of life. I am going to poison the minds of Muslims worldwide? I only encourage Muslims to think. God has been speaking these words to me for several days now and I did not know why... I think now I do... "Is your faith so weak?" So weak that it can not stand up to scrutiny? to close inspection? My dear sir, your mind is already poisoned... poisoned with ideas of conspiracy. Perhaps that is the world you live in, but it is not the one I live in. I actually had thought you and I had a pretty good dialogue going. Sorry to hear you think otherwise.  Caringheart |
Abu Loren wrote:Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 08 August 2012 at 7:10pm
|
Just as a note... in case anyone doesn't pay attention, or bother to read citations when they are posted.. the above which I posted is an excerpt from an article written by an Egyptian interested in salvaging the Islamic way of life. |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 09 August 2012 at 2:53pm
|
Caringheart,
your agenda is obvious, if you read what you wrote. You are writing a a lot of different things that has nothing to do with religion Islam and understanding it. Please, I will ask you nicely, as I am suppose to, to respect the topic you started, I have suggested the proper topic based on the contents of your first post above. I will be glad to get muddy with you once you do that, or you know what I changed my mind, I will let you enjoy the mud yourself. Anyone who have known you since your very first post have seen your real motives already . Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 09 August 2012 at 2:58pm
Caringheart, you appear to be lying M. Caringheart, I do not see a single Quranic quote in your post above. Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 09 August 2012 at 3:22pm
|
I am curious, what is it in the above article that I shared, that is so objected to? I considered the entire article to be informative about the formation of Islam, and a positive statement towards the future of Islam. You do have to go and read the whole article to appreciate what it is saying and not just the excerpt that I posted. This is what I mean when I say I encourage Muslims to seek knowledge for themselves. That "which I posted is an excerpt from an article written by an Egyptian interested in salvaging the Islamic way of life." (i.e., it was written by a Muslim) |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 13 August 2012 at 1:52pm
|
Caringheart,
just look and read your starter post on this thread, and tell me does that say anything about understanding Islam. Your intentions are clear there, as well as in many other posts. Here is a link or two that will lead you toward better understanding of Islam. http://www.islamicity.com/education/understandingislamandmuslims/ http://islamtomorrow.com/islam/index.asp Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: Jergg
Date Posted: 19 August 2012 at 8:06am
|
I am new to this forum, and I seek to understand Islam. I understand Islam to be a religion of peace. Caringheart posted an excerpt, written by a Muslim, and he or she has been attacked on all sides, and accused of being a lier and having an agenda to subvert Muslims worldwide. Please help me understand. Is this the religion of peace and the brotherhood of all mankind?
|
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 22 August 2012 at 12:35pm
|
Jergg,
please follow the links I mentioned above, these will help you to understand the teachings of Islam, once you learn them, you tell me what you think. Caringheart is not a Muslim in fact he writes against Muslims and Islam, he cannot be a trusting source for you to learn about Islam, please follow those links. Peace, Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: Jergg
Date Posted: 24 August 2012 at 12:18pm
|
I'm sorry. I do not follow links, since I can go to hundreds of Islamic and anti-Islamic websites any time I choose. Rather, I prefer to engage in person-to-person dialogue with actual Muslims to learn what THEY think and how THEY view their beliefs. |
Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 26 August 2012 at 11:17am
You may now ask your questions.Go ahead. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 26 August 2012 at 8:16pm
|
I have a question. :-) Do you think Muslims should try to understand Christians? I am interested in an honest exchange if you can please tell me your feelings on the matter.
|
Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 27 August 2012 at 8:37am
LOL i knew you would respond.Why not? we are here to share and as the Jews have the old Testament,the Christians have the new Testament and the Muslims have the last Testament which has come to correct and renew the lost words of God. |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 27 August 2012 at 12:36pm
|
Understanding Christians will be entirely impossible since there are so many denominations plus each Church I know has its own touch of teachings it follows. Then there are differences on geographic, language and racial lines and so on. On top of that people have their own understanding which they sometimes follow.
As far as understanding Christianity, it is very simple to understand for a Muslim, nothing difficult at all. Every Muslim (one who knows and practices Islam)knows that Christians worship Jesus and Holy Ghost beside God both God's creations and under God's commands. They also believe that their salvation has come through a ransom that has paid for their sins through the shedding of blood of Jesus (Son of God who is also God, they say)who was tortured and killed on the cross for this reason( for their salvation)! without believing in such and without this happening, they say, they don't have salvation. Also, the weapon (the cross) that was used to torture and kill Jesus, according to them, is used as a symbol for their religion. Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 27 August 2012 at 1:21pm
Why is it that others are making the effort to understand Muslims? All the things you have said about Christians is also true of Muslims. Hasan, You said that you had Christian 'friends'. If Islam were to come to your country, what would happen to these friends? |
Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 29 August 2012 at 12:09pm
I think first Hasan would skin them alive and then stone them to death and then force them to accept Islam with a sword in his hand. I think that is the view you have of Islam.Oh i forgot turn them into terrorist.yes yes.I can see Hasan licking his lips. 
|
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 29 August 2012 at 2:24pm
|
Caringheart,
Islam is already here in this country where I live, the US. Islam is submission to the Will of God. It is good, and it benefits the person following it willingly. Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 29 August 2012 at 7:53pm
Hasan, If you live in the U.S. then you live in a secular country. I am talking about, what if your country were to come under Islamic rule. What would happen to your friends? It is something everyone should be thinking about. Would you turn on your friends, who you know to be good people, because your religion said so? Would you subject yourself to possible death, because in your unwillingness to turn on your friends, you could be killed since you can not renounce your faith in Islam? It is something everyone should be thinking about. It is the type of thing people were faced with in Germany under Hitler's rule. People who had long been friends had to make the choice to either help those friends or to turn a blind eye to their fate. It is something everyone should be thinking about. Caringheart |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 29 August 2012 at 8:06pm
|
Ismail, I'm surprised and disappointed by your response. Are you still going on pilgrimage next month? Or has that been cancelled? Caringheart |
Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 30 August 2012 at 2:13pm
Hi Caringheart, You see the line of questioning was what would you do if Christians were to come to your country.I would like to pose the same type of question to you.What do you expect to happen?The Muslims are not the people you per sieve us to be.The st**id oil rags with swords in our hands no that is not who we are.I live in a Christian country and in my business i meet 90% Christian clients.Not a day did we have an argument or i have not had a customer walk out of my business angry.I make sure when they walk out they are smiling.So the line of questioning was sarcastic and i gave an answer. Now ,Oh yes i am going Mecca to pray and i am leaving South Africa on the 19 of September and i will return on the 03 November inshallah. And don't be disappointed by my response.Take it in the spirit of dialog. |
Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 30 August 2012 at 10:15pm
|
I knew Indonesia, 90% Muslim, about 7% Christians, the rest Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucian etc. We have over 20% of house representative members, 20% ministers, we have 3 Christan national holiday, 2 Hinduism national holiday, 2 Buddhism national holiday, 2 Confucian national holiday and we have only 4 Muslim national holiday. We are in the us there is none Muslim holiday. Sometime people think Muslim majority country is not tolerant, just a prejudice. ------------- Salam/Peace, Semar "We are people who do not eat until we are hungry and do not eat to our fill." (Prophet Muhammad PBUH) "1/3 of your stomach for food, 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air" |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 31 August 2012 at 7:21pm
Greetings Ismail, I was surprised and disappointed to think that, after all of our dialogue, you would think that I have this view of Muslims. Yes, you live in a Christian country. Do you enjoy freedom and equal treatment? Could a Christian expect the same if the country were to come under Islamic rule? What would you do if your country came under Islamic rule? Would you treat these Christian people the same way that you do now? That is the question. The line of questioning was not sarcastic, but quite serious. Salaam, Caringheart |
Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 02 September 2012 at 11:29pm
Hi,I notice you do not know much of the history of South Africa. We have been ruled by the white racist Christians for 300 years.  A Muslim was not allowed to preach or have houses of worship for many years.We were not allowed to bring scholars from other country's to come and teach Islam.We were not allowed to use a lift in a building which were for whites only.The signs used to read no blacks and dogs allowed.All races were regarded as black Indian,colored, Chinese were all put into a pot as black.European, Portuguese,French,and anything white in color were classified white.The last 16 years we have freedom from the white racist,we are still in a transition period.We have a slight improvement and only time will tell.That is my experience under a Christian run state.
If my country would come under Islamic rule wow we would have total rule of law.One nation freedom of religion,freedom of speech freedom of expression all this you will get but you will have to show some responsibility in all the freedoms you have.I will not treat the Christians the way they treated us.We were treated less then sub humans. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 03 September 2012 at 4:23pm
Greetings Ismail, I guess I know a little about South Africa, and yes, I know it has not been good with British infringements there. This however has to do with British rule not Christian rule. The British have had a state defined church. That is why so many left and went to America... the same reason... freedom of religion. Christians left England for freedom of religion... the Puritans, the Quakers, the Amish, the Catholics... they all went to America. I am the first to admit I have not been a history buff until very recently. Most of what you speak of though has to do with racist issues... issues of color. I did not know that religion as well was restricted, but it would make sense under British rule. But how long ago did that end? Are you completely sure that if Islam were to rule that the same treatment would not be meted out to others? That others would not be treated just as badly as you have been treated? It would be wonderful if this would not be so. However, people of religion often have ideals that those who seize power do not follow. It has taken many years for others to evolve. Salaam, Caringheart You must be getting excited for your pilgrimage?  [added note: I'm sorry, I'm running out of time for research, so I'll ask you... Wouldn't South Africa be considered a secular nation?] btw, I weep with you over the mistreatment of any human being. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 03 September 2012 at 4:30pm
|
On the topic of Understanding Islam... On another forum was asked this question, "i was wondering how did adam and eve's children have children if they were the only ones?",which led me to reading this most interesting article. http://islamic-world.net/khalifah/mans_vicegerency.htm I think all here will find it interesting as well. Please don't judge before reading. |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 05 September 2012 at 2:57pm
Caringheart, sorry I was away for a few days and just saw this post. If my Christian friends were living under Islamic law? They will be better protected then even today's US laws, where I am not protected the same. If I have a hobby of remote control planes which I do but cannot practice, I must be very careful with that just because I am a Muslim, while my fellow non-Muslim Americans can enjoy the same hobby fearless. Daily there are attacks and injustices on Muslims take place and go without notice by main media intentionally. If there is a real Islamic rule, it would protect all. In height of Islamic rule, when it was practiced to the core values, there were Jews, Christians and others lived in Muslim lands better than under even their own. Hitler, you mentioned, himself thought to be doing what a good Christian suppose to do, he was wrong but he was a Bible reader. Early Christians to the Americas claimed to be good Christians but their acts did not match with what they did to the natives, later with blacks, Mormons and others. Islam does not say to turn against people of other faiths, rather to preach and discuss in a handsome way. 16:125 (Y. Ali) Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance. 2:256 (Y. Ali) Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. I remember it was actually the Bible that preached to kill those who worship to other gods and invite you to worship their gods. Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 05 September 2012 at 7:38pm
Greetings Hasan, and welcome back, Just a quick, short reply. Without getting into debate, I have to disagree with you. We do not live in a perfect world.
|
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 06 September 2012 at 2:43pm
|
Caringheart,
and that is my position, we are in a state of trial. I never said we live in a perfect world. We, and those who came before us and those who will come after us, all have to go through the same state of trial to avail our chance to follow the Will of God or reject it, to our own future of the hereafter. Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: Al Saadiqeen21
Date Posted: 19 February 2014 at 5:11pm
I agree She master of trick's , Meaning she throw Rock's and then hide her Hands . ------------- One doesn't go to school let His / her's mind to die , They go to school so that their mind will come alive . |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 19 February 2014 at 11:31pm
If I have any agenda, Jergg said it perfectly. As-salam alaykum, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |