Personally Dr Syed, I think the topic of how Muslims reconcile their deen with the political practicalities of living in a non-Muslim country is not only an interesting subject in itself, but moreover, a subject which many Muslims and/or potential Muslims living in Non-Islamic nations could, by openly discussing, derive benefit and useful guidance. The topic would also be of interest to the non-Muslim populations of such countries, which could help develop a more rounded understanding of the Islamic culture of their fellow citizens. Conversely, threads in which people are allowed to call other members racists and Nazis only serve to cause antagonism and division.

Obviously Dr Syed, we must all strive to discuss such issues making sure we pay attention to the forum guidelines. If you are referring to the foolishness of the ideology of Hizb-ut-Tahrir, I would agree that their stance appears to make little sense. I don't know how they can hope to change the political system in Britain without there being a situation where the majority of the population become converts to Islam.

I have a reservation.  I am not a victim of post locking, but am a victim of post moving.

The sad part for me is it was moved without any intimation nor it had any tag bearing "Moved".

Absolutely strange, Colin, but chin up mate, we have all sorts everywhere.

It will be very difficult to take our Dr. Alwi's support for serious. He doesn't know half the time where he is himself, not just about his words but also about his threats of "resigning" from this forum.

Never mind, you have an Afghan hitman here!!

Ok Mr Afghan hitman sir :--) Can you or anyone else, tell me if the Qur'an contains specific guidance for Muslims living in non-Islamic lands?

Many thanks.

Dr Syed Alwi wrote: When Islamicity cannot answer my questions - they then accuse me of apostasy. Remember Galileo and the Inquisition ? Thats Islamicity.........

Does islamicity have a Q and A forum inviting people to ask questions that it promises to answer?

And who from Islamicity accused you of apostacy? Was it the CEO, or the technical support team, or the managerial staff? Where is your proof?

N

Dr Syed Alwi wrote: It is my right and privilege to argue from the perspective of a modern Muslim. Islamicity does NOT monopolise Islamic discourse, ideas or even the notion of Islam itself.

We have a set of guidelines to be followed here. If anyone does not follow these, his/her comments are dealt by the moderators. If you have problems with this system, the easiest way to circumvent it is to familiarise yourself with the norms, most of the members are following.

Dr Syed Alwi wrote: I can question dogma - especially if the ideology promoted in Islamicity is of a variety where many people find to be unacceptable.

"Promoted at Islamicity" is a false expression. There are INDIVIDUALS who are expressing their views. These people have not other connection with this website except that they are board members, like yourself. Just like your views cannot be called views of islamicity, in the same way views of any other board member cannot be called "views of islamicity" Do you understand this technical fault in your statement mister?

Are you telling me that I cannot speak my mind here without being accused of apostasy ?

You have made yourself vulnerable to attacks due to your comments. I dont know what different types of impressions people are receiving from your posts. Personally I think you are terribly misguided about Islam. .... NO, ISLAMICITY DID NOT SAY THAT. I SAID THAT, hope it is not too difficult for you to distinguish.

N

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

Colin i havnt been around for a while so i dont know what posts you are talking about, have you reported them?

FYI i havnt come across anyone so far who i would consider on the same level as Mr alawi so i dont know where your acusation of double standards is coming from. I tolerated a lot from him before i decided to watch his posts more closely have you taken this into account?

>>>>It is my right and privilege to argue from the perspective of a modern Muslim.<<<<<

So doctor while you being moderate we are primitive in our thought? Syed I never truly like to say this (And may Allah forgive me if I am wrong) but you are truly a Kufr. Your arguments clearly show "too much Islam" creates a loop hole in politics i.e democracy. Your arguments show if there is a Caliphate this is not an acceptable system. Your system shows the opneness of a Muslim is wrong in western civilization. Muhammad (peace be upon you) has no instructed Muslims to behave like this obviously you are not of the Muslims when you make broad accusations such as you have made in the past and now.

rami wrote: Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem Colin i havnt been around for a while so i dont know what posts you are talking about, have you reported them? FYI i havnt come across anyone so far who i would consider on the same level as Mr alawi so i dont know where your acusation of double standards is coming from. I tolerated a lot from him before i decided to watch his posts more closely have you taken this into account?

Rami, I have in the past reported Jibreel's insulting behaviour, and subsequently, there was a general warning issued about not using the word Nazi, although this did not stop him from regularly calling me a racists. Anyhow, since this warning (about two weeks ago), he has continued to use Nazi and other abusive terms towards me. Seeing that I reported him, I would have thought that the moderators would have at least monitored his posts for a while to make sure he stayed in line. I have reported another of his post today, hopefully, this will bring an end to the barrage of insults and we can return to some sort of normality and civility in our discussions.

-------

I am not familiar with Dr Alawi's previous posts, but the topics that were locked didn't appear to be any worse than many on this forum. If they had become abusive I would understand them being locked. In future, may I politely suggest, that if you are going to keep an eye on one member, you should also watch out for other members, especially those who have been previously warned against using abusive language.

Dear Colin,

My previous posts were no more abusive than the ones that you see here. Its just that I am able to expose their true colours for all to see and they don't want you to know what their true agenda is. This is the price I pay for FREEDOM & DEMOCRACY.

FREEDOM OF SADOM? OR DEMOCRACY OF FALLACY?

This man claps whenever islam cannot be implemented, whenever an Islamic group lost, whenever muslims are chased,. What kind of Muslim is this? Na'uzubillahi minhu.

Dr Syed Alwi wrote: Dear Colin, My previous posts were no more abusive than the ones that you see here. Its just that I am able to expose their true colours for all to see and they don't want you to know what their true agenda is. This is the price I pay for FREEDOM & DEMOCRACY.

Dr Alwi, if your previous posts are not abusive, I see no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to state your opinion. There are several Muslim posters here that have stated that they think deliberately targetting and killing civilians is somehow an excusable tactic and nobody moderating these forums has so much as warned them about their posts, let alone locked the thread. There are many extreme viewpoints expressed on these forums, It would be nice to see them dealt with in an even handed manner.

Colin, I understand, it's Islamic to hijra from a country or community, which is unjust or if we are not allowed to practice as Muslims. Now, this can not be applied at least to the United Kingdom where I have seen people getting millions of pounds in grants to set up Islamic centres and mosques.

Further, the Quran forbids to force faith on anyone, especially, the people of the Book - that includes you and also our friends in Stamford Hill. They are already in Faith!!

Whisper wrote: Colin, I understand, it's Islamic to hijra from a country or community, which is unjust or if we are not allowed to practice as Muslims. Now, this can not be applied at least to the United Kingdom where I have seen people getting millions of pounds in grants to set up Islamic centres and mosques. Further, the Quran forbids to force faith on anyone, especially, the people of the Book - that includes you and also our friends in Stamford Hill. They are already in Faith!!

Thanks for the info Sasha. I'm not sure that I count as being a person of the book, I'm interested in and take the good things from many faiths, so I guess I could be called a person of the books. ;--)

I am not too sure if I should mention it here on this board, but there is evidence that Haroon er Rasheed and St John were drinking companions and upto that time, Islam was quite fondly treated as an offshoot or, we could say, link of Christianity.

Plus, the Muslims, the jews and the Christians used to have a Mosque, a Synagogue and a Church almost set up in a triangle in Toledo and quite a few other Spanish towns. These three worked together far happily for all those el-Andalus centuries than our Ultra Right wing Christians (who think Joan of Ark was Noah's wife) would want us to believe.

They Triangle also worked well in Ottoman Turkey - 600 + years.

The potential is there but then the Interests of the State (or, States) drop on us

Dear Colin,

I thank you and appreciate your fair judgement. You can read the replies to my postings by the so called Islamicity crowd. I think this is why Blair banned Hizb-ut-Tahrir. They do not committ violence but they sure incite hate speech and are very intolerant. I support Blair's decision. Like I said - if these people are truly well intentioned - how come they don't encourage British Muslims to be good citizens ? Why ask for Islamic State and Khilafah ? They do not need to do much. Just uphold the interests of their Non-Muslim fellow citizens. My view is that they cannot do this because they have their own agenda - which is the Islamic State etc. Anyways - its nice to know that there are still a few decent people here.

Rami, I have in the past reported Jibreel's insulting behaviour, and subsequently, there was a general warning issued about not using the word Nazi, although this did not stop him from regularly calling me a racists. Anyhow, since this warning (about two weeks ago), he has continued to use Nazi and other abusive terms towards me. Seeing that I reported him, I would have thought that the moderators would have at least monitored his posts for a while to make sure he stayed in line. I have reported another of his post today, hopefully, this will bring an end to the barrage of insults and we can return to some sort of normality and civility in our discussions.

If he has labeled you such things then there is no doubt that his posts should be moderated, why this hasnt been done could be for a number of reasons. Personaly i have not been around for the past 2 weeks and i know on and of it has been the same with the other moderators. Unfortunatly there is no way to monitor every posts an indavidual makes unless we read every post and come across his at the same time so each incident would have to be reported to specificly bring it to the attention of nthe moderators.

I am not familiar with Dr Alawi's previous posts, but the topics that were locked didn't appear to be any worse than many on this forum. If they had become abusive I would understand them being locked. In future, may I politely suggest, that if you are going to keep an eye on one member, you should also watch out for other members, especially those who have been previously warned against using abusive language.

Mr Alawi has a history of abusive ofensive and misinformed posts on this forum if you are not familiar with his past i recomend that you and anyone else wondering what is going on now not comment as you are missing a large part of the picture.

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

You are delutional, what ideas are exactly not accepted by the civilised world care to quote me?

You are very close to being banned.

Bismillah

You are jamming the discussions with your political baffle... It would not be as sad if only you had a little religiousity in it.

The similitude of you coming in this forum is that of a madman who forces himself into the cinema hall in the middle of the movie and starts preaching his "political anti-hizbi sermon" to the surprised  audience and blaming everyone of something you had experienced in one of your nightmares... flashing the torchlight in the dark at people's faces.

There is only why way to deal with such disturbers... and if you refuse medical assistance all we can do is limit your participation by giving you initial warning, making you part with your loudspeaker and later walking you out of here.

Why are you NOT encouraging British and American Muslims to be good citizens ?

I must beg your pardon, Sir. This is the first time - in my 37 years of travels through Britain, US, Canada and almost everywhere in the world - that I am hearing such an allegation that the Muslims in these countries ARE NOT GOOD CITIZENS and that THEY NEED TO BE ENCOURAGED TO BE GOOD.

Could I please ask you to furnish us with the basis of your observation?

Could you please also mail me the name of the chap who wants a Khalifa in Britain or Singapore?

And, if some desire Khilafat for their own coutries why should you (or, anyone else for that matter) turn turquise blue with fright, envy or whatever?

The whole world is forging all sorts of blocks with geographical or other common interests. Why must it be a crime just for the Muslims to pool their resources, advantages together and form a block? EEC can happen but not a decent healthy partnership amongst Muslims?

Sir, if give me just one reason (even if it's not good enough) I might go along with your crusade.

Whisper...never much such a title to myself

Brother, nothing more than just a humble tribute

Colin wrote: To Rami and others, Whatever else he has said, I have not come across Dr Alwi using offensive terms like Nazi, bigot and racist.

Colin, he has used terms like Hizbi, extremist, ppl who treat othes like dogs, people who condone suicide bombings ..... I know he did not accuse anyone of being a Nazi, but to the limit he has gone leaves just a few things, like not calling us terrorists.

Colin wrote: I agree that his style of posting can be somewhat blunt, but he doesn't appear to any more blunt than many on this forum. The subject of Hizb-ut-Tahrir and their modus operandi would seem to me a very pertinent topic given recent events. As I said in an ealier post, issues facing Muslim communties in non-Islamic lands is a worthy topic of conversation.

Agreed. What i do not see is a conversation on this topic. The only mention of this topic has been in form of accusations at people. Surely you know there is a big difference between the two. To name one, a conversation invites ppl to talk and an accusation puts a person off right from the start.

Colin wrote:  little more moderate and respectful of each others opinions.

On a side note, the comments you had reported twice in the past were taken care of. I will deal with this new report as well .... if you are complaining against not reading the posts to see them without your reporting them, you are right I did not read ... I read very little these days. But if you send a report, it will always come to notice faster.

Thank you,

Nausheen 

How to have conversation when to my every post - I get locked, baited, ridiculed  etc ? You think people cannot read and see what is happening ? Look at the thread on Muslims in Non-Muslims countries. I was having a good conversation with beloved and others but then when it comes to the part where I discuss that its difficult for Muslims to integrate into Non-Muslim societies - the topic gets locked ! Why ? People can see for themselves what is happening. You do NOT want these issues to be discussed. If indeed you are sincere - well let Colin open a thread on this same topic.  The same goes for the thread on Ban Hizb-ut-Tahrir ! Hooray ! Now where in that thread have I made very offensive and abusive remarks ? Indeed it was mostly a debate between beloved and others. I only made a few comments. Again - people can read and see that for themselves. How do you explain why that thread was locked ? Once again, if you are indeed sincere - let Colin open a thread on Hizb-ut-Tahrir. I do not need to make so much noise. People can see for themselves. They can read and they can think.

Dr Syed Alwi wrote: I suggest that Colin be allowed to discuss these issues as they are of importance. Forget about me. Let Colin do the discussion.

If Colin is willing, by all means, the stage is all his.

Might I as well suggest that Colin monitor all opinons so that the thread not slip into extremism, paranoia, and prejudices?

Let there be no personal attack on anyone. Discuss opinions of people, not people themselves.

N

B95000 wrote: rami wrote: Mr Alawi has a history of abusive ofensive and misinformed posts on this forum if you are not familiar with his past i recomend that you and anyone else wondering what is going on now not comment as you are missing a large part of the picture. It seems to me that you owe it to those of us who've joined more recently to air the reasons Dr. Alwi is in hot water with you clearly.

19.Your participation in discussion forums is a privilege and not a right. "Free Speech" here means that you don't pay for speaking your mind as opposed to any other belief(s) you might have. We reserve the right to remove any comment or comments that are not in line with the above rules, without giving reasons, notifications or explanations to anyone.

Alwi's case is closed. We came to some solutions on this subject, and there is no more room for discussion. How moderators function becomes the hottest topic on air, but ppl do not realise that this forum would not have been in a decent shape if moderators had not been right in majority of their moves. We do not owe any explaination to anyone. If we have given any that is out of sheer generosity (which I am running out very fast).

Peace,

N.

Dr Syed Alwi wrote: Rami your days are numbered. People can see the game you play. I have never said anything offensive nor abusive. Its just that you do not want people to discuss these issues because it exposes you. Thats all. If you want to ban me - by all means ban me. You banning me means nothing but when you get banned by the government - I shall have the last laugh ! Like I have said before - allow Colin to take up the issues which I raise and that includes the integration of Muslims into Non-Muslim societies as well as the modus operandi of the Hizb-ut-Tahrir. Let Colin do it.

Alwi is banned.

This thread is closed.

If anyone is not happy with me, is free to leave!

Peace.

N