Why did Allah choose to have a son?
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Topic: Why did Allah choose to have a son?
Posted By: Friendship
Subject: Why did Allah choose to have a son?
Date Posted: 28 December 2010 at 4:37am
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Assalamu alaikum Zachary Jackson Levon Furnish-John was born on Christmas Day, the UK musician and his Canadian husband David Furnish http://www.usmagazine.com/momsbabies/news/sir-elton-john-and-david-furnish-welcome-a-new-baby--20102712 - told the Usmagazine.com website . "Zachary is healthy and doing really well, and we are very proud and happy parents," said the couple. They provided no details about the surrogacy arrangement. "We are overwhelmed with happiness and joy at this very special moment," the couple told the website in a statement. They said the boy weighed 7lb15oz (3.6kg). A representative for the couple said they intended to protect and respect the privacy of the surrogate mother, and would not be discussing any details relating to the surrogacy arrangements. Last year, the couple, who were married in 2005 after 12 years together, tried to adopt an orphan in Ukraine. However, Ukrainian officials said Sir Elton, 62, was too old and his civil partnership with Mr Furnish, 48, would not be recognised as a marriage by Kiev. Allah refuted the idea and concept of Him having a son saying: Qur'an 2:116: And they say: Allah has begotten a son. Glory be to Him. Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth, and all surrender with obedience to Him." Qur'an 10:68. They say: "Allah has begotten a son. "Glory is to Him! He is Rich (Free from all needs). His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. No warrant you have for this. Do you say against Allah what you know not?" Qur'an 18:111. And say, "All praises and thanks be to Allah, Who has not begotten a son, and who has no partner. And magnify Him with all magnificence." Qur'an 19:4, "And to warn those who say: 'Allah has begotten a son." Qur'an 19:88-95, "And they say, "The Most Gracious has begotten a son. Indeed you have brought forth a terrible evil. Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins. That they ascribe a son to the Most Gracious. But it is not suitable for the Majesty of the Most gracious that he should beget a son. There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes unto the Most Gracious as a slave. verily, He knows each of them, and has counted them a full counting. And everyone of them will come to Him alone on the day of Resurrection." Qur'an 21:17, "Had We intended to take a pastime (i.e. a wife or a son), We could surely have taken it from Us, if We were going to do (that). Qur'an 21:26: And they say. "The Most Gracious (Allah) has begotten a son (or children)." Glory to Him! They (whom they call the children of Allah i.e. Angels and Isa the son of Maryam the virgin Mary, Uzair) are but honoured slaves." They speak not until He has spoken, and they act on His Command." Qur'an 39:4, "Had Allah willed to take a son, He could have chosen whom He willed out of those whom He created. But Glory be to Him! He is Allah, the One, the Irresistble." Qur'an 72:3 (the jinns telling us), "And He, exalted be the Majesty of our Lord, has taken neither a wife nor a son." Let us commonsense prevail please! |
Replies:
Posted By: Gibbs
Date Posted: 30 December 2010 at 9:30am
| This entire post makes no sense. I have trouble following the relationship from the first link you provided, and Elton John adopting a Ukranian child, followed by Koranic verses. |
Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 30 December 2010 at 10:52am
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Gibbs, what part of; "Let us commonsense prevail please!" do you not understand? |
Posted By: schmikbob
Date Posted: 30 December 2010 at 3:00pm
| Abuayisha, do you mean "let common sense prevail please"? Was this your way of agreeing with Gibbs? |
Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 30 December 2010 at 9:17pm
| Yeah |
Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 31 December 2010 at 12:00am
 I am itching to say something about this but let's wait, Friendship may want to add more! ------------- Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction. |
Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 31 December 2010 at 1:36am
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Assalamu alaika Sign*Reader. I think I should better wait for a while to see the response of the forum members. It is a matter of how one is taught to understand his Faith. My teacher Muhammad Rasulullah taught me the method of separation. Some forum members rejects its application in understanding the OT and NT. |
Posted By: pure_columbian
Date Posted: 31 December 2010 at 6:19am
| My first time on here and i have to say i'm totally confused as to what the purpose of this thread is, it makes no sense whatsoever, or is there more to come??? |
Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 31 December 2010 at 9:00am
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Same reason Jesus was male. Societies were not ready for a female prophet. Today it's different. ------------- A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 05 January 2011 at 12:40am
| Using Qur'an verses to verify that Allah had no son is like using the New Testament to verify that God did indeed have a son, Jesus Christ. It is a matter of faith and belief. You cannot expect Christians to agree with what the Qur'an says anymore than you can expect Muslims to agree with the Bible says concerning Jesus. |
Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 06 January 2011 at 4:49am
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Assalamu alaika Larry. The issue is not only what Allah informed the holy Apostle Muhammad, but what he informed all the Apostles before Jesus. Muhammad is sent as an arbitrator between those who rejected their Apostles and those who accepted them. As a said earlier the teachers of the earlier scriptures did not set any standard in understanding what Allah revealed. The texts and contents of what transpired in the last days are not convincing statements of Jesus the son of Maryam. The Elton case further disapproved and disproved the idea of Allah having a son. In the standards in understanding the teachings of Muhammad is: Lazim (obligation) is tied to malzum (obligated). Desire to have a son or a child is intrinsic in animals. Please understand and study carefully in the Book of Genesis why allah created Eve. The Old Testament is a starter in understanding what Allah revealed to Muhammad. |
Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 06 January 2011 at 9:30pm
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Friendship,
I have no idea of what the "Elton case" is and how it "disproved the idea of Allah having a son." I don't need any lessons in reading the Holy Bible and I have seen no evidence in the Holy Bible for the reality of "Muhammad" as a prophet of God, or even being mentioned as such. The prophet Isaiah was very clear in his chapter 53 of what the Messiah would be like when He came the first time, and what he would do for all the people of the earth. The Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, tells of what will happen when Jesus Christ comes for a second time to judge the good and the wicked. In Christianity Jesus Christ is portrayed as the "Lamb of God" who, John sees in heaven as having looked, "as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out unto all the world." John, the writer of Revelation, said that he heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come..." My Holy Bible is a comfort to me as the Holy Qur'an is a comfort to you. I would never tell a Muslim that their religion is wrong any more than I would expect a Muslim to tell me that my religion is wrong or in error. The prophet Muhammad recites that God says "let there be no compulsion in religion, the truth stands out clear from error." I agree 100% Larry |
Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 07 January 2011 at 12:56am
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Assalamu alaika Larry. Your statement: I don't need any lessons in reading the Holy Bible and I have seen no evidence in the Holy Bible for the reality of "Muhammad" as a prophet of God, or even being mentioned as such. Response: Reason, common sense and logic reject your assertion. You have contradicted yourself! Please we want to establish understanding, tolerance, assimilation, integration, adoption, etc as echoed by the West and this can be achieved only through education. You are already biased and prejudiced. You have no platform to participate in this forum. If you are super being, nobody is jealous of that. But as a human being I cannot claim exception. |
Posted By: schmikbob
Date Posted: 07 January 2011 at 7:36am
| friendship, aren't you just a little too full of yourself to be rejecting people from this forum? |
Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 07 January 2011 at 8:45am
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Assalamu alaika Schmikbob. The matter is not as you think. Muhammad the messenger of Allah taught us not to argue with anyone but on a just cause. That is between you and me, we can argue on the issue of all what Allah revealed to Muhammad to understand what you learn from your scripture. Secondly, we among ourselves are to argue on the actions of the holy Apostle. But, I find it absolutely uncivilized to just cut short and truncate what one wants to learn from someone. I want to understand why, how can Allah right from the creation of Light, He never thought of having a child until 3BC. |
Posted By: Gibbs
Date Posted: 07 January 2011 at 12:38pm
| Friendship I don't think you understand.....When you write, sometimes you don't make sense. You cross different subjects together and it doesn't make sense. Elton John and Allah not having a son doesn't make sense. If this is a religious subject stay on religion. Using the example of Elton John who is declared homosexual adopting a child has nothing to do with Islam and Allah having a son. I don't mean to be rude but you need to hear this. |
Posted By: Gibbs
Date Posted: 07 January 2011 at 12:39pm
| BTW stop calling me "people of the book." I may be of jewish lineage but I don't even read the Torah or the Talmud. I'm Agnostic. I consult with religious people I am not religious myself. |
Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 07 January 2011 at 1:48pm
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Assalamu alaika Gibbs. Muhammad taught us never to be annoyed and that we must listen to others and pick that which is good only. In the holy Qur'an, Allah told us that when the brothers of Joseph accused him of theft, he took the milder approach and said, "The one on whom your goods are found." Brother Gibbs (I learned of Gibbs free energy constant in physics), I told you the whole story as appeared in BBC website. What is relevant is the desire to have a child and not his homosexuality. Although he is the female partner, he was fashioned by Allah without that instrument to conceive. Allah argued that he is not an animal and therefore has no desire. For Allah to have a son according to what He revealed to Muhammad, he must have a desire! The Quraysh argued that how could Muhammad whom they met in the streets, goes to the market, eat, drink, sleep, with wife and children be given Apostleship above them? I hope you understaand now. I will never be aannoyed with you. |
Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 07 January 2011 at 10:13pm
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Friendship,
You speak of Muhammad telling his followers "never to be annoyed and we must listen to others..." Then you reply to my posting that "Reason, common sense and logic reject your assertion." I would love for you to illuminate us all and explain how "Reason, common sense and logic reject my statements." Are you basing these "observations" on the Qur'an? And if they are based on the Qur'an, what does that have to do with me as a Christian? My beliefs are based on the Holy Bible not the Qur'an. You also state that I am "already biased and prejudiced." That sounds like someone who is annoyed...and a bit too self-righteous for their own good. And I would venture to say that your postings show that you are also "biased and prejudiced" toward your own religion and beliefs. Maybe you should practice what you preach. Larry |
Posted By: Friendship
Date Posted: 08 January 2011 at 1:21pm
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Assalamu alaika Larry. Muhammad never separated the Bible from the Qur'an except on what Allah revealed to him (us). If you cannot reason you will never fear Allah. Imagine you in Egypt when Allah commanded Moses, "Stretch your aarm toward the sky and everything wioll be covered with darkness thick enough to touch." According to the Bible Egypt was covered in darkness for three days. Then the king of Egypt sent for Moses and told him, "Go wworship the Lord! And take your faamilies with you. Just leaave your sheep, goats and caattle." Go to Egypt and see the mummified body of Pharaoh. It is not mentioned in the Bible that Allah preserved the body as a lesson for future generations that the days of tyrants are short lived. Please stop calling yourself a CHRISTIAN. There is no where in the Bible as confirmed by the Qur'an where Allah ever addressed one as a CHRISTIAN. You are a Muslim. The belief in the Bible is that there is only One Allah. This is the belioef also in the Qur'an. There is no biase, prejudice and self-centredness in what Muhammad confirmed. |
Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 09 January 2011 at 6:32pm
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Friendship,
You state that "Muhammad never separated the Bible from the Qur'an except on what Allah revealed to him (us)." If you cannot reason you will never fear Allah." Whether I "fear" God or not it is none of your business. And I guess you mean that I need to "reason" that Islam is the true religion and not Christianity. That is your belief, not mine. You also say; "please stop calling yourself a Christian. There is no where in the Bible as confirmed by the Qur'an where Allah ever addressed one as a Christian." Technically you're right, God never PERSONALLY addresses anyone as a "Christian" but Christians are named in the New Testament by the Apostle Peter and the Apostle Paul. I Peter 4:16 "Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter. Acts 11:26 "And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch." So you see, there are references to Christians in the Bible, which is God's Word to Christians as the Qur'an is also Allah's Word to Muhammad and Muslims. But you said, "confirmed by the Qur'an..." as if nothing in the Bible is true unless it is "confirmed" by the Qur'an. I do not accept your viewpoint on this matter as it does not apply to me as a CHRISTIAN. You said: "You (meaning myself) are a Muslim." I disregard that statement also. You state: "The belief in the Bible is that there is only one God (Allah). I agree, that is my belief also. You state: "There is no bias(e), predjudice and self-centredness in What Muhammad confirmed." There is no bias, prejudice or self-centeredness in anything that Jesus Christ said or did either. As to whether the Holy Bible and the Holy Qur'an have any biases, prejudices and self-centeredness is open to debate and interpretation by Christians and Muslims. I don't mock the Qur'an and I would hope that you would not feel the need to mock the Holy Bible by making ugly accusations about it. When I say I don't accept the Qur'an I refer to my personal beliefs as a Christian, but still respect the Qur'an. I would appreciate it if you would treat the Holy Bible in the same respect. Larry |
Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 7:12pm
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I think Friendship has a way of telling how effed up the capitalistic and materialistic west is in mentioning the birth of a child through a process no different than used by the breeders whether cattle or pets...And he juxtaposed that with Jesus 's birth! Now let's examine what are the facts: A British singer named Elton John ( aka Sir =Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE)(Motto For God and Empire) becomes wife of an American Mr. David Furnish in 2005  ...In 2010 this celebrity musician wanted a baby either through adoption if not then of his own making...Last Christmas day a baby boy is born of a California surrogate with egg from unknown source and Mrs. Furnish/ Sir John's sperm as indicated on http://www.popeater.com/2011/01/04/elton-john-baby-biological-father/ - the birth certificate . We all have seen onetime or another the showbiz celebrities have been doing all kinds of grotesque sex related antics like collecting pets, making babies without wedlock and lately they have been collecting human babies to attract more paparazzi running after them to satisfy the prurient interest of the sicko world... The British monarchy has stood as vanguard of the Western Christianity (based on god having son)for longest period of time and I think Friendship has opened this as a case against her for her pretensions... There are lots of people who for shear ignorance and or absence of real faith in their lives and society have come to worship these singers and entertainers in particular a substitute of divinity! No matter how bizarre things they do, are signs their god sent under their own moral standards or rather absence there of! If you know somethings from Greek and Roman mythology you might see where are they coming from but not in the KJV if you are think about the motto of being a knight of the Brits Empire... There has been lots of discussion online and quite a few are just waiting to see how big a musical prodigy that newly bred kid would be? There have been all kinds of comments...Who knows what the kid will do? When he gets out of high school his dad Sir Elton/Mrs. Furnish would be octogenarian along with dad's husband Mr. Furnish, just imagine the scene...Bizarre is not the right word! That is what I see when Friendship said "Let commonsense prevail" That why he quoted the signs from Quraan but I doubt most will see that way... ------------- Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction. |
Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 11 January 2011 at 10:25pm
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Now to make Sir Eltons kid's Passport application simple... http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/passport-mother-father-abolished/2011/01/09/id/382319?s=al&promo_code=B6F0-1#ixzz1AndvNbGC - Obama's State Dept. Removes Mother, Father From Passports
Is this a coincidence? ------------- Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction. |
Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 14 January 2011 at 3:43am
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Sign Reader, labeling the entire West as materialistic is no better than labeling the entire Muslim world as 7th century thinking. There are plenty of spiritual Westerners as there are plenty of modern Muslims. ------------- A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Gibbs
Date Posted: 14 January 2011 at 9:49am
| Muslims arent materialistic? Pfft you obviously didn't visit Dubai! |
Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 27 May 2011 at 1:46am
| By the way, who does the Qur'an say was the father of Jesus? |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 27 May 2011 at 9:36pm
Jesus did not have a father. He was created miraculously by the command of Allah (swt) with only a mother and no father. If you think this somehow supports the Christian argument, you are comically mistaken. For the Quran says: "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was." (3:59) ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Larry wrote:Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 28 May 2011 at 8:46am
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I would say Christians are disciples of the new testament Jesus Christ. I would say Muslims are disciples of Mohamed. I think the intent of Friendship was to use the story of Elton John as an analogy to the concept of God having a son. Somewhere along the line, the analogy got bogged down to many readers here. The big error of Muslim theology regarding Jesus as the Son of God is that they base their position on humans fathering children, and applying those concepts to God at the time Jesus was born to Mary. But the Son of God goes all the way back to the point of creation. I submit this explanation. Jesus said he existed before Abraham and before the creation of the world. So we must ask ourselves first, how did God come into being? That of course is an unanswerable question. But let's reason that before creation, what was there? There exists only God. I think all muslims here will agree with me on that point. Pre-creation, there cannot be God and empty space, because, one, where would have that empty space come from, and secondly it would mean that God has boundaries. When God decided to create - since He was all there is - the only place that he could create is within Himself. And since creation does have boundaries, unlike God, God had to designate within Himself the boundaries of creation. Within that boundary, God came forth from Himself in a form that creation could perceive Him. That coming forth is called emanation. He came forth from Himself, and created all things. Thus, the term the Son of God. The Lord of Heaven. The Lord of Creation. The creator of all things. We as created beings can only know God within the boundaries of creation. And that is who Jesus was before entering the world as the son of Mary. Jesus was the creator of all things. Jesus said he came forth from the Father. He was not talking about his birth into this world (which I think muslims are thinking). Jesus was talking about before there was anything created. It wasn't that God decided to have a Son. The Son has always been God. The Son is God coming forth from Himself at the time of creation to create all things, and as God perceivable to us created beings. Moses perceived His back on Mt. Sinai, and the Children of Israel perceived His voice.... with eyes to see and ears to hear. Doug L. |