A Psychological Nightmare
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Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Description: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15537
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Topic: A Psychological Nightmare
Posted By: Nazarene
Subject: A Psychological Nightmare
Date Posted: 27 September 2009 at 5:12am
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salaams brothers and sisters!
Below is yet another challenge for the trinity people.
if God.Jesus and the Holy Spirit are ONE in the same EQUAL in everyway , what is the meaning of this!!
Matthew 12:32 (New International Version)32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. if the son of man Jesus and the holy spirit are ONE and EQUAL to each other in everyway. Why can one be forgiven for a sin against one and NOT THE OTHER. If they are ONE and EQUAL would not a sin against one be a sin against the other also?
i better stop tring to make sence of this. i fear i'll get alzhiemers.
leland ------------- love for all conquers all |
Replies:
Posted By: salahuddeen2009
Date Posted: 28 September 2009 at 3:43am
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sister I stopped trying to make sense of it since i've been asked to believe that 1+1+1=1 bcz each one of the small ones is part of the BIG ONE as the first 1 is the Father of the second 1,the second 1 is the merciful face of the big One ,while the third 1 represents its power,but all of the small ones still are equal parts of the Big One ,which should always be ONE&even all these small ones are doing different things,with different names ,characters& capabilities,even they call each other&one of them prays to the other &call himself his prophet,they should still be ONE !!!!
It's as simple as that
 you know sister,for more than 10years,I've never met 2 christians who understandTRINITY in the same way!!each one of them tries to MANAGE how to make it Palatable,for himself in his own way
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Posted By: Pati
Date Posted: 28 September 2009 at 1:13pm
Hi, Well, I will tell you one thing: my mother is my mother (1), my father wife (1), my grand mother daughter (1), her friends friend (1), her neighbours neighbour (1), her colleagues colleague (1), etc... So let us think in a mathematical way: Mother (1) + Wife (1) + Daughter (1) + Friend (1) + Neighbour (1) + Colleague (1) =.... Can you give me the answer, please? For me, the answer is 1, because it's the same person everytime, developing different roles. That's the same with God, we don't mean God is Three in number or in physical way (I am sure I already said all that, but I am not tired of repeating). God is Father (Sense), Son (Heart) and Holy Spirit (Faith), so we don't mean that God is made by three components, we just make difference with each of His roles. Do you understand? Regarding Matthew's Quote... well, in my Bible it's different: 30 < El que no est� conmigo, est� contra m�, y el que no recoge conmigo desparrama> Sorry to write it in Spanish, I will try to explain what that means: the meaning of this quote is that God can forgive the men when they are fighting, talking in bad way or bad things, etc. between them, because that's our natural way of being. But He cannot forgive us as human when we do it against Him, against the Holy Spirit or the Faith. God can save anyone who makes a mistake, but He cannot forgive the worst mistake, which is to reject Him or to talk in bad way about Him. When it says "The Son of Man", it's talking about the people, humanity, not about Jesus. God understand that people are fighting against each other, because we are equal at the end, but He cannot understand it when we don't respect Him and we insult Him, no matter how we do. Regards, Patricia ------------- No God wants the killing, but the peace. The weapons are carried by people, not by religions. |
Nazarene wrote:Posted By: salahuddeen2009
Date Posted: 28 September 2009 at 5:08pm
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SALAM PATI
YOU R WRONG,IAM SORRY TO SAY IT AS HARD AS THIS,
SON OF MAN IS USED IN THE BIBLE=NEWTESTAMENT TO POINT TO JESUS IN PARTICUAR
SEE THIS
ALSO,REGARDING SPLITTING GOD INTO 3 ACCRDING TO HIS RULES,LET'S BE LOGIC; WHAT WOULD U SAY WHEN I TELL U THAT YOUR MOTHER CAME TO YOUR FAMILY HOUSE AND SHE WAS SITTING DOWN ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF YOUR FATHER'S WIFE AND THEY SPOKE TOGETER FOR SOME TIME,THEN YOUR FATHER'S WIFE ORDERED YOUR MOTHER TO BRING SOME GOODS FROM THE MARKET, AND SHE SENT YOUR GRANDMOTHER'S DAUGHTER WITH HER TO MAKE HER MISSION EASIER ISN'T THIS THE TRINITY STORY
,GIVING A NAME FOR EACH ROLE OF THE SAME PERSON,AND MAKE THIS ROLE ACT INDEPENDENTLY DO YOU MEAN THAT FATHER ALONE REPRESENTS
A GOD WITH SENSE BUT WITOUT HEART OR FAITH
 DOES THE SON HAS NO SENSE NOR FAITH,AND ONLY HAS A HEART
DOES TRINTY MAKE ANY SENSE
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Posted By: Nur_Ilahi
Date Posted: 29 September 2009 at 6:58am
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That's the same with God, we don't mean God is Three in number or in physical way (I am sure I already said all that, but I am not tired of repeating). God is Father (Sense), Son (Heart) and Holy Spirit (Faith), so we don't mean that God is made by three components, we just make difference with each of His roles. Do you understand? In that case Son of God is metaphorical right? However many Christians take it literally. Regarding Matthew's Quote... well, in my Bible it's different: - This is the crux of the problem in Christianity. There are so many different versions that instead of uniting, it is dividing people. There is no 1 Bible that is the same. Some belief in God and Jesus as Prophet, some belief in Jesus as God or Son of God. God is One. Therefore His Choice of His Holy Scripture should be One too. God can save anyone who makes a mistake, but He cannot forgive the worst mistake, which is to reject Him or to talk in bad way about Him. There is a similarity in Islam. The reason why we say the Shahadah - LAILAHA ILALLAH - THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH - is that we are acknowledging that there is no other God worthy of being worshipped but Allah. To reject Him and to accept other than Allah - The Creator of the Whole Universe, is the worst kind of sin. It is like equating Him - The Creator of the Whole Universe with His Absolute Power with another Creation of Him. When it says "The Son of Man", it's talking about the people, humanity, not about Jesus. God understand that people are fighting against each other, because we are equal at the end, but He cannot understand it when we don't respect Him and we insult Him, no matter how we do. That is what Christianity is doing to Allah - God of the Whole universe. Not giving due respect to The Being that created the air for us to breathe, the water for us to drink, the food for us to eat and so on. Instead, believing in a Creation of the Creator - Jesus - is showing disrespect to the utmost. ------------- Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention. |
Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 29 September 2009 at 9:59am
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Mother (1) + Wife (1) + Daughter (1) + Friend (1) + Neighbour (1) + Colleague (1) =.... Can you give me the answer, please? For me, the answer is 1, because it's the same person everytime, developing different roles. Yes, but not to the same person... my mother is my mother. She is never my wife or my daughter. So what you are saying is that God is the spirit to some but to others the 'heart.' And no matter.. one must dominate. We have one biological mother. She may or may not become my friend. But she will always be my mother. One takes precedence. ------------- When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi |
Posted By: Pati
Date Posted: 29 September 2009 at 1:47pm
In that case Son of God is metaphorical right? However many Christians take it literally. I know, and that's a problem. Also, lot of Christians are talking wrong things about our own religion, and giving wrong ideas about it. That's the real nightmare. By my side, when I don't know anything, I accept it and just try to find the right answer. But I have to accept that I don't have all the answers (I wish). Regarding Matthew's Quote... well, in my Bible it's different: - This is the crux of the problem in Christianity. There are so many different versions that instead of uniting, it is dividing people. There is no 1 Bible that is the same. Some belief in God and Jesus as Prophet, some belief in Jesus as God or Son of God. God is One. Therefore His Choice of His Holy Scripture should be One too. I completely agree with you. But at the same time, the some of the wisest people in Vatican are Spanish, and they are controlling every Bible printed here. Spain is one of the countries where the Catholicism is really a tradition and we keep in our mind most of the traditional ideas (actually, my parents still remember when the Ceremony was said in Latin, just 30 years back). I think that the controls we have in Spain are quite important as to prefer the Spanish version of the Bible (printed) than any other Bible we may find through internet. God can save anyone who makes a mistake, but He cannot forgive the worst mistake, which is to reject Him or to talk in bad way about Him. There is a similarity in Islam. The reason why we say the Shahadah - LAILAHA ILALLAH - THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH - is that we are acknowledging that there is no other God worthy of being worshipped but Allah. To reject Him and to accept other than Allah - The Creator of the Whole Universe, is the worst kind of sin. It is like equating Him - The Creator of the Whole Universe with His Absolute Power with another Creation of Him. I know, that's why I believe our religions are more similar than what we really realize. When it says "The Son of Man", it's talking about the people, humanity, not about Jesus. God understand that people are fighting against each other, because we are equal at the end, but He cannot understand it when we don't respect Him and we insult Him, no matter how we do. That is what Christianity is doing to Allah - God of the Whole universe. Not giving due respect to The Being that created the air for us to breathe, the water for us to drink, the food for us to eat and so on. Instead, believing in a Creation of the Creator - Jesus - is showing disrespect to the utmost. That's your opinion. In my opinion the problem is not with Christianity or Islam, but with people who belong to that religions, and even with the people who are not part of them. We have to make difference between prayers and God, because there is a very big difference. Salams ------------- No God wants the killing, but the peace. The weapons are carried by people, not by religions. |
Posted By: Pati
Date Posted: 29 September 2009 at 1:49pm
Hi Hayfa, Sure, and the most important is God Himself, be sure of that. But I believe one thing and another are not a contradiction. Salams ------------- No God wants the killing, but the peace. The weapons are carried by people, not by religions. |
Posted By: salahuddeen2009
Date Posted: 29 September 2009 at 3:15pm
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SALAM PATI
YOU R WRONG,IAM SORRY TO SAY IT AS HARD AS THIS,
SON OF MAN IS USED IN THE BIBLE=NEWTESTAMENT TO POINT TO JESUS IN PARTICUAR
SEE THIS
ALSO,REGARDING SPLITTING GOD INTO 3 ACCRDING TO HIS RULES,LET'S BE LOGIC; WHAT WOULD U SAY WHEN I TELL U THAT YOUR MOTHER CAME TO YOUR FAMILY HOUSE AND SHE WAS SITTING DOWN ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF YOUR FATHER'S WIFE AND THEY SPOKE TOGETER FOR SOME TIME,THEN YOUR FATHER'S WIFE ORDERED YOUR MOTHER TO BRING SOME GOODS FROM THE MARKET, AND SHE SENT YOUR GRANDMOTHER'S DAUGHTER WITH HER TO MAKE HER MISSION EASIER ISN'T THIS THE TRINITY STORY
,GIVING A NAME FOR EACH ROLE OF THE SAME PERSON,AND MAKE THIS ROLE ACT INDEPENDENTLYDO YOU MEAN THAT FATHER ALONE REPRESENTS
A GOD WITH SENSE BUT WITOUT HEART OR FAITH
 DOES THE SON HAS NO SENSE NOR FAITH,AND ONLY HAS A HEART
DOES TRINTY MAKE ANY SENSE |
Posted By: Nur_Ilahi
Date Posted: 01 October 2009 at 6:21am
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That's your opinion. In my opinion the problem is not with Christianity or Islam, but with people who belong to that religions, and even with the people who are not part of them. We have to make difference between prayers and God, because there is a very big difference. I believe we are connected to the same BEING or the Same God that created us and the whole of the universe. Because we were born to seek Him. Your connection and my connection with God is real. However the concept of God taught in the Bible is so much different from Islam. Because the Bible - whether you like it or not - is corrupted. And in my opinion, basically, it is not the people, but the Scripture that leads the people astray. ------------- Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention. |
Posted By: mariyah
Date Posted: 01 October 2009 at 7:56am
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Asalaamu aliakum:
Does anyone here speak or can translate ancient aramaic or Greek? if not, then arguing these points are futile. you need to go to the untranslated source of these to get the intended meaning, if you can find a manuscript. Most of them were destroyed by the roman emperor Constantine in the century 3 CE so we really do not know what it said, we have only Constantine and the nicene councils interpretation. I would check the nag hammadi manuscripts if I were you. You may be surprised.
Best wishes to all of you. My first dead husband was an archeologist and an authority on ancient scripts (written languages) and linguistics. This does not qualify me, but he told me what he learned from Archeology and the study of history caused him to convert to Islam. But if the Bible and your beliefs are a comfort to you, then so be it. May Allah wa ta'ala giude all on the path He intends for each individual and may you find comfort in your travels. I found the following interesting:
http://bible.org/netbible/index.htm?exo20.htm - http://bible.org/netbible/index.htm?exo20.htm
Can you tell me why God commanded you to take no other god before Him?
And verse 4
"You shall not make for yourself a carved image http://bible.org/netbible/exo20_notes.htm#209 - 9 or any likeness http://bible.org/netbible/exo20_notes.htm#2010 - 10 of anything http://bible.org/netbible/exo20_notes.htm#2011 - 11 that is in heaven above or that is on the earth beneath or that is in the water below. http://bible.org/netbible/exo20_notes.htm#2012 - 12 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, http://bible.org/netbible/exo20_notes.htm#2013 - 13 for I, the
Can you tell me where Constantine got the idea it was ok to deify a man when it is clear it was forbidden by your own book?
Actually i found the following link to be non denominational, rather unusual:
http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html - http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nag_Hammadi - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nag_Hammadi
------------- "Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile. |