I want to know what kind of experiences
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Topic: I want to know what kind of experiences
Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Subject: I want to know what kind of experiences
Date Posted: 26 March 2009 at 7:26am
| As Salamu Alaikum,Brothers I want to know What was you're experience if any of you went for a job interview and they asked you to shave you're beard. |
Replies:
Posted By: savant
Date Posted: 26 March 2009 at 8:54am
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Walaikum Sallam, I dont think so somebody straight way would asked this. People usually show it with their attitude. Might be someone is asked as this world is a mess; full of happenings. ------------- Never Give up |
Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 26 March 2009 at 9:50am
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savant wrote:Posted By: Saladin
Date Posted: 26 March 2009 at 9:51am
Wa Alaikum Salaam,
I havent faced such a situation but I know of a Srilankan bro who quit his job in Qatar, cuz the company wanted him to shave his beard. ------------- 'Trust everyone but not the devil in them' |
Posted By: Saladin
Date Posted: 26 March 2009 at 9:57am
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I was asking this because some jobs require a certain look,and or requirement such as I use to be a welder and some jobs that dont have the proper ventalation require you to wear a respirator,and you cant wear a respirator with a long beard.
You could trim it somewhat.......ask a scholar. ------------- 'Trust everyone but not the devil in them' |
Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 26 March 2009 at 10:01am
| As Salamu Alaikum, Saladin.I feel him Ahki,I'm about to go back to school to get more work skill maybe an assciate degree(Inshallah).It makes everything more frustrating when you have to choose a field to work in based on if you would be required to shave your beard. |
Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 26 March 2009 at 10:08am
| I know you can trim,but not shave, and Ive read in Hadith that our beard should be fist length.I also was thinking about dying it red like Prophet Muhammed(Saw)I got a little grey. |
Posted By: Saladin
Date Posted: 26 March 2009 at 10:08am
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Akhe, remember, "necessity overrides prohibition". So consult a wise scholar regarding your problem.
Btw, I dont know whether the Prophet dyed or not but I've learnt that its allowed, red, brown but not black. ------------- 'Trust everyone but not the devil in them' |
Posted By: nu001
Date Posted: 26 March 2009 at 10:56am
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Having a beard isn't Farj, shaving isn't harmful for your boady either. So it's completely your choice.
But I won't appreciate shaving as asked by employer, if I want to have my beard & feel good with it. I won't walk in for a type of job which is not suitable with beard either. ------------- "Al-Quran-The only Straight path to success. Alhamdulillah" |
Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 26 March 2009 at 11:27am
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Posted By: Saladin
Date Posted: 26 March 2009 at 12:02pm
Wearing saris, ear and nose piercings, lipstick and nail colors are also not harmful for men's bodies. So are those also choice? Give us a super break bro! ------------- 'Trust everyone but not the devil in them' |
Posted By: nu001
Date Posted: 26 March 2009 at 1:02pm
Yea, your Psychopathic reaction convinced me, you need a break. Given.
if you are ever normal, give me the relation between beard and all those items.
If you have some quaranic ref to sport a beard, do explain that.
If you want to know why some of the items you mentioned aren't alowed through Quranic ref, do ask, I will be more than happy to eliminate your misconceptions.
Islam isn't a faith to follow blindly, it's a religion of understanding & following. Try to understand each and everything that you do & believe in. Allah has given you all the resons for each and everything He ordered us to do. Except the elements of basic faith mentioned in 2:177
Don't have to make so animated reaction, that's also unislamic. Allah tells us to argue with logic and wisdom.
------------- "Al-Quran-The only Straight path to success. Alhamdulillah" |
Posted By: savant
Date Posted: 26 March 2009 at 9:58pm
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http://www.islamicity.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=56452&FID=46 - nu001
[If you want to know why some of the items you mentioned aren't alowed through Quranic ref, do ask, I will be more than happy to eliminate your misconceptions]
For Five prayers and their way to perfom and also how to do wudu is not written in Quran. Not every thing you can extract from Quran. Sunnah is living life that Allah choses. Some Sunnah ways are wajib and some are not wajib, like in morning Fajar prayer it is wajib sunnah to pray 2 rakat sunnah before Farad. See it is sunnah why we called it as "wajib" due to its importance. In the samway brother there are many other "wajib sunnah". ------------- Never Give up |
Posted By: Hunter
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 12:08am
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Walaikum Salam Hello Akhe, it's been a while since I've talked with you. I realize it's somewhat different, but I've had prospective employers frown on my tattoos before. I've learned to cover them up for job interviews. I think anything outside the realm of what's expected is often frowned upon by prospective employers. Did someone actually straight-up ask you to shave your beard off ? If that's the case, that doesn't sound right.
------------- "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"-- DrDre |
Posted By: nu001
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 12:37am
Salam Bro,
It is there very clear in Al Quran, you just need to read Al-Quran to extract it.
However, I don't want to go into that discussion here, that's a different issue. Why don't you just ref a sahih Hadith, which says that having a beard is mandatory/Fard.
------------- "Al-Quran-The only Straight path to success. Alhamdulillah" |
Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 4:04am
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Posted By: Duane
Date Posted: 27 March 2009 at 5:27pm
| As Salamu Alaikum, Nobody ever came out and told me straight away that I should shave but I have been told that I represent the company. So in the way it was related to me I aparently did not fit the company profile they were looking for. I try to keep my a fists lenth and slightly trimmed so as to appear neat. Very hard to get work since then though. umph |
Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 28 March 2009 at 7:13am
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Posted By: Saladin
Date Posted: 29 March 2009 at 9:00pm
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Allah tells us to argue with logic and wisdom.
Good advise, Taken. Care to practice what you preach? Now please save the shrink work and kindly answer my question. ------------- 'Trust everyone but not the devil in them' |
Posted By: Chrysalis
Date Posted: 05 April 2009 at 1:16am
Actually Bro - the Qur'an does not tell you the method of Salaah, the rakaats etc, niether the entire wudhu. It simply mentions basic acts of wudhu. For all of that, we have to look at Sunnah & Hadith.
Growing a beard for men is madatory in all four schools of thought - and unless there is an exceptional reason - it is prohibited to shave it.
Few Sahih Ahadith:
Sahih Muslim, hadith no. 501 : Reported by Abu Darda; Prophet Muhammad (saws) said: I have no connection with anyone who shaves, shouts and tears his clothing in grief or affliction.
Imam Bukhari (Rahimahullaah) reports on the authority of Imam Nafi' [ra] who narrates from Sayyiduna Abdullah ibn Umar, Radi-Allahu anhu, that Rasulullah  said, 'Oppose the Mushrikeen (polytheists); lengthen the beards and trim the moustaches.'
Imam Nafi' (RA) further states, 'And ibn Umar, Radi-Allahu anhu, during Hajj or Umrah used to hold on to his beard with his fist and cut off whatever was in excess of that.' (Bukhari vol.2 pg.875; Kitab-ul-Libas no.5892) The verdict of the growing of the beard being wajib (obligatory) is deduced from this hadith. That is because any explicit command of Rasulullah After all, what is it that stops us from at least adopting the outer features of Rasulullah There is an Arabic couplet that says: 'And resemble them if you cannot be identical. Verily the resemblance of the noble ones is also a form of success.' And Allah Ta'ala Knows Best. (excerpts taken from albalagh.net) -------------
And the following hadith, although does not mention the mandatoriness of the beard - I thought was interesting, so sharing:
�There will emerge from the East some people who will recite the Quran, but it will not exceed their throats, and who will go out of the deen of Islam as an arrow passes through the game. They will never come back to it unless the arrow comes back to the middle of the bow by itself (i.e. impossible!) . The companions asked, "What will their signs be?".
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "Their sign will be the habit of shaving off of their beards". Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 9.651 Narrated by Abu Said Al Khudri ------------- "O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young." |
Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 05 April 2009 at 11:07am
| As Salamu Alaikum, Chrysalis.Jazakallah Kheiran for your reply.Good work!May Allah Bless you. |
Posted By: nu001
Date Posted: 05 April 2009 at 1:28pm
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None of your Hadith refference says that it is mandatory/fard.
I could not check back all your Hadith as the ref isn't precise. The ref you gave for the first and the strongest one was from Muslim 501. I am sure our beloved prophet cannot use such language, as even the non believers had free access to come infront of him and listen to him. So I checked that one: here it is:
Ref: http://www.iiu.edu.my/deed/hadith/muslim/002_smt.html - http://www.iiu.edu.my/deed/hadith/muslim/002_smt.html
I am sure you also have a ref. it's not your or my fault. Hadith has been distorted even before the death of prophet, some times unintentionally and sometimes intentionally to suit one's requirements. That's why we find so many contradictions even in Sahih hadith. here is one:
"Do not write down anything of me except the Quran. Whoever writes other than that should delete it" (Ahmed, Vol. 1, page 171...also Sahih Muslim)
on principle and by definition, fard is something forbidden by Allah, directly or indirectly. And what Allah said is intact in Quran. If you can have patience and not react like the blind muslims do, then I will try to show you from Quran that everything is available in Quran. I insh-Allah want to start with the Ablution/Odu.
regarding Beard, you can also listen to Dr, Zakir naiks explanation as well. It has been encouraged but not mandatory even by any Hadith. if Quran hasn't forbidden something, that definitely isn't forbidden:
Al Quran: 6:114
"Shall I seek other than Allah as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?� ------------- "Al-Quran-The only Straight path to success. Alhamdulillah" |
Posted By: nu001
Date Posted: 05 April 2009 at 2:25pm
I'm sure you can find out a ref from Hadith to support ignorance as even fard. While this is also a sahih hadith:
"Do not write down anything of me except the Quran. Whoever writes other than that should delete it" (Ahmed, Vol. 1, page 171...also Sahih Muslim)
The time gap of around 200 years is almost similar between first written version of Bible from the departure of jesus and First Hadith book from the death of our prophet. The logic is used against Bible for being distorted but the same logic isn't applicable for hadith, can you explain without bias, why?
If it was forbidden by the prophet to write anything that he said, if Usman has burnt all other writings after collection of final vesion of Quran, can you tell me who are these people who later claimed to have preserved prophets sayings in writing? (Except Mushriks, Jews and Christians)
If the muslims followed prophet's instruction & Usman's instruction (True Muslims are expected to follow) then how the sayings were kept free of corruption for 200 years (6/7 generations)
Don't you think that, if prophet had to add anything to Quran which are mandatory in nature, The next job the 4 Chaliphs would have done after the Quran is to make a collection of those?
Would they keep it for Bukhari (First Hadith collector) to come from Central Asia after 200 + years and collect hearsays and level it sahih and not sahih? on unscientific basis? Even science couldn't invent ways of capturing past conversations from the ether, still a science fiction.
If these collections were Sahih, why Islam is divided into fitnahs since that time? Why even his contemporaries disagreed with him & the correctness of the collection?
With regard to answering your question, First of all can you please ask a proper question? if your rathar sarcastic comment hasn't been addressed?
------------- "Al-Quran-The only Straight path to success. Alhamdulillah" |
Posted By: Saladin
Date Posted: 05 April 2009 at 8:22pm
I did my best.....I hope the question above is proper enough now for you to answer. ------------- 'Trust everyone but not the devil in them' |
Posted By: Saladin
Date Posted: 05 April 2009 at 9:00pm
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"Do not write down anything of me except the Quran. Whoever writes other than that should delete it" (Ahmed, Vol. 1, page 171...also Sahih Muslim)
I'm impressed by your devotion to this Hadith. You see bro, I like to get enlightened too. So will you tell me, from where in the Quran the info in this hadith can be extracted? Oh! I'm also ignorant of any hadith that supports ignorance as fard. ------------- 'Trust everyone but not the devil in them' |
Posted By: savant
Date Posted: 05 April 2009 at 9:41pm
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In essence, �Hadith� refers to an act done, word spoken or a confirmation given by Rasulullah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam). �Hadith� has been accepted as a source of Islamic law, after the Quran. Its status has remained undisputed throughout the centuries aside from some individuals who have separated themselves from the mainstream of the Muslim population. Its authority is evident from the Quran. The Quran repeatedly reminds the believers to follow Rasulullah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam). In order to fulfill the injunctions of the Quran, one is required to accept the authority Hadith. If one denies the authority of Hadith, it is impossible for him to fulfill and carry out the injunctions of the Quran, for example, we are commanded in the Quran to perform salat. But the Quran does not explain the methodology of salat. The Hadith explains to us the methodology of salat. If one had to rely simply on following the Quran, and not the hadith, he would not know the methodology of salat. Therefore, we are required to follow both, the Quran and Hadith. The Sahaba, Tabi�een and all the pious predecessors were staunch follows of Rasulullah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) Hereunder are a few verses proving the authority of Hadith: وَأَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَ �And obey Allah and the Messenger so that you may be shown mercy� (3:132) وَمَنْ يُطِعِ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ يُدْخِلْهُ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِنْ تَحْتِهَا الْأَنْهَارُ �And whoever obeys Allah and his messenger, Allah shall admit him in the gardens underneath which rivers flow� (4:13) وَمَنْ يَعْصِ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ ضَلَالًا مُبِينًا �And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger has gone astray into manifest error� (33:36) The Muhadditheen (experts in Hadith) have dedicated their lives in the various sciences of Hadith in order to preserve the authenticity of Ahadith. May read more on the subject matter from a book �Authority of Sunnah� by Mufti Taqi Uthmani Saheb.
There are only two alternatives for those who negate Hadith: they should deny transmission and narration out and out and openly deny the Qur`aan along with the Hadith, but if they believe in the narration of the Qur`aan, then they must admit the narration of the Hadith as well in view of their having admitted narration as a verity. They cannot accept the Qur`aan and negate the Hadith, otherwise, they would be considered deniers of the narrative itself. Further consideration would amply show that the proof for continuous narrative does not rest merely upon the fact of continuity of narration of the Qur`aan but it is provided by the proof of the Qur`aan itself. It is not necessary that its proof should be sought in the continuous narration of the Qur`aan alone, since once the Qur`aan is admitted as gospel truth, the question naturally arises, how did we come to know it from the Qur`aan which has not been proved as such, then how can it provide proof for anything else? This is called 'presuming a thing before it comes into existence', a sort of posteriori approach. Thus, we can know it is the self-same Qur`aan through an extraneous source, and what else can this source be but the reports regarding the holy Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) which were recorded and have reached us intact? This is what is called the Hadith. Therefore, proving that the Qur`aan is verily the Qur`aan depends upon the Hadith. Considered this way, could it be possible that the acknowledgement of the Qur`aan should be made imperative but not that of the Hadith? If this is so, then it would not be possible to prove and establish the very existence of the Qur`aan. ------------- Never Give up |
Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 07 April 2009 at 4:31am
| As Salamu Alaikum, Brother Savant. Jazakallah Kheiran for your reply. Ajabanee Haqqan! |
Posted By: Chrysalis
Date Posted: 07 April 2009 at 8:10am
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Saladin makes an interesting observation . . . why is it Bro Nu001 - that on one hand you shun ahadith and consider them incorrect/unauthentic - yet on the other hand, you use Ahmed's hadith to stress your own point? It appears that ahadith are ok, as long as they fit your argument and point of view? Either you believe in ahadith - or you dont?
Secondly - you asked for Sahih references, and you were provided Sahih references. Muslim is sahih too. . . and this was just a quick search on google, I am sure that you can find many more on the subject.
The Qur'an is also a form of Ahadith - it was related by Prophet Muhammad to the sahabah, who passed it on to us. Same with Ahadith! If you trust ppl to pass something as important as teh Qur'an, surely you trust them to pass down Ahadith to us with teh same diligence and trust?
As for saying that the Sahabah did not have/use (or something like that) hadith - and they were made up 200yrs later - is wrong. The ahadith were taken FROM teh sahabah. Which is why you will see the sahaba's name in the narration chain! You can diligently trace who reported what from whom! Theres a whole 'scientific process' (if u wanna call it that) behind it!!!! Bukhari and Muslim simply COMPILED the ahadith in book form, sorted them into chapters, according to subjects, weeded out the weak ones i.e. those that they could not find adequate trace/reference for. They didnt include even a single hadith that had a weak narration.
The Sahabah - yes, even the 4 Caliphs - used ahadith for reference at that time. Only diff is that at the time, they were oral traditions. Whenever a member of the public wanted to make a point, point out an error - they would quote ahadith to back up thier claim.
You believe History books dont you? Where do you think History books got thier material? It was handed down generations, by reliable ppl. Yet, the same Muslims have a problem believing in the authencity of Ahadith, that work somewhat on teh same principle, if not more thorough and detailed and recorded. When historians may/may not be biased/have vested interests . . . . . although ppl like Bukhari did not - they had nothing material to gain.
Having no hadith means we dont know our Prophet. We wouldnt know how he behaved, what he liked, disliked, what was his ettiquette, how he smiled, walked . . . .his opinions - his character. How would a Muslim today know all that he/she knows about the Prophet, his wives, correct behaviour - if you exclude ahadith?
Hadith tells us things/details about how to eat, sleep, conduct Nikah, Pay Zakat, Ushr etc, Perform Hajj, Fast, which days to fast, which days not to fast, how to break fast, how to do Suhr, what times to pray at, what things break wudhu, which do not, conjugal rights, Hijab, etc etc. . . . and ofcourse beards.
If I were to come up with a figure, I would say hat 70% of our deen's practise and knowledge is based on ahadith.
You know how ppl say we are supposed to follow Sunnah? How would you know what sunnah is if you reject hadith?
------------- "O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young." |
Posted By: Chrysalis
Date Posted: 07 April 2009 at 8:15am
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Not to mention beards make men look dignified & handsome. . . ------------- "O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young." |
Posted By: savant
Date Posted: 07 April 2009 at 11:38am
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It is always suggested from religious scholars that interpret Quran and Hadith under someone�s guidance only; Just translations may leads some to wrong. Just see below about this Hadith that what was the purpose but unfortunately what he extracted. In world things we don�t do this; we never try to prescribe our patients ourselves. We never try to architect our buildings ourselves; but when it comes to religion i am sorry to say �we all are muftis� Here is the skilled response to Hadith. Question In regards to the following saying of the holy prophet s.a.w: "do not write down anything of me except the Quran. whoever writes down other then that should delete it". (Ahmed, vol.1, pg171...also sahih muslim), I would like to know the context in which the prophet s.a.w made this statement and is this a justification for saying that the ahadith of the prophet s.a.w are not a part of deen? Answer It is due to total ignorance and desire to follow one�s Nafs that would drive a man to reaching such a conclusion that the Mubaarak Ahaadith of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] are not part of Deen. The reason for the prohibition found in the above Hadith is that this was said by our beloved Nabi [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] in the earlier days of Islam where the noble Qur�aan were written on many different things and were kept by many people. The Sahaaba [radhiallaahu anhu] at this time had not had that amount of experience with the Qur�aan to understand the style of its Aayaats. For the above reason, there was a possibility that if the Ahaadith of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] had to be written down, the Sahaaba [radhiallaahu anhu] would accidentally regard the Ahaadith of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] as part of the Qur�aan. Once the Sahaaba got used to the style of the Qur�aan and could distinguish between the Qur�aan and Ahaadith merely by reading them once. Nabi [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] had permitted them to write down his Ahaadith. Imaam al-Tirmidhi [ra] had compiled a whole chapter of Ahaadith in his famous Tirmidhi in the section �Kitaabul Ilm� regarding the permissibility of writing the Ahaadith of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam]. (Darse-Tirmidhi vol.1 pg.36) and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best Mufti Ebrahim Desai ------------- Never Give up |
Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 07 April 2009 at 7:49pm
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Posted By: Chrysalis
Date Posted: 08 April 2009 at 8:40am
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Bro Savant, Jazakallah for sharing that bit of info about the hadith.... ------------- "O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young." |
Posted By: savant
Date Posted: 08 April 2009 at 11:31am
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Thanks; Alhamdulillah, its all due to the presence of respected Mufti-e-Ikram between us; May bless and shower mercy on those who between us and those are passes away. ------------- Never Give up |