The conduct of a Muslim man is very important, not only is because he is an example of teaching, but as a man. To be upright, truthful, honesty and caring are just brief components of what makes a Muslim man. The primary goal for a Muslim man is to obtain the highest level of intimacy with God. His second and most important duty is to his family. Of course the word family, encompasses a lot of things but in this case I mention the immediate family such as his wife and children(or child).

A man's efforts to his family must also reflect the efforts to his deen. If he cannot be consistent in his efforts he must strive to be consistent. Perfection should not be his goal. Men must not allow themselves to believe that he and she can be perfect or even strive to be, because as God has mentioned he will test our every move in life.

Men must be self-conscious of themselves spiritually, as well as maintain a clean hygeine. Men must also be ever cognizant God. Even if one is not consistent with prayer one should strive to be consistent, and if that is difficult at least be mindful of God and his promises to mankind.

Men must respect people of all cultures and nationalities and must free themselves from those who are opposite. Men must be kind, and caring. Men must learn how to handle differences especially those who disagree with Islam. Men must learn to use their mind as well as their intellect to help themselves solve their life issues rather using violence to solve them.

Men must be kind to women. Men must try to make an effort to empathize with his wife when she cannot. Men must learn to accept a woman's mistake and forgive her and continue to build their life around each other. A man must learn to accept a woman for who she is not who she was and must build from the imperfections that both come to apprehend from each other. Most importantlya man should try to reflect the love of God to his woman and be the very clothing that shades her from harm.

These male attributes are indeed essential towards the Muslim man living in a Muslim community.  However, in my own community, where arranged marriage is not an option, following these qualities will doom you to failure.

I can understand having a Muslim wife, or a wife that has been raised around Muslim communities, as to why being �kind� is accepted, but I have found that in my community, with my experience with women, that women see kindness as a weakness in a man.  Instead I have found that women are more attracted to the man who is aloof, careless, arrogant, and wild in nature.  I am not saying abusive, that definitely is out of the question.

What I am saying is that those attributes that you have described are indeed �good� qualities to have, but in a western community you wont get very far.

I agree with:

If he cannot be consistent in his efforts he must strive to be consistent.

-         I agree, as this will only make you a better person.

Men must not allow themselves to believe that he and she can be perfect or even strive to be.

-         The man who strives for perfection is indeed foolish, we must know our limitations.

Men must be self-conscious of themselves spiritually, as well as maintain a clean hygeine.

-         Agreed, who would want to talk to a dirty person anyways?

Men must learn how to handle differences especially those who disagree with Islam. Men must learn to use their mind as well as their intellect to help themselves solve their life issues rather using violence to solve them.

•  - Agreed.

Men must be kind to women.

•  - Yes, definitely.

Men must learn to accept a woman's mistake and forgive her and continue to build their life around each other.

•  - Yes, but you need to know when enough is enough.  There are plenty of women in the world; you don�t need to be obsessed with this one.  No one woman is the absolute perfect woman; there are so many others who can be better than the one you are with.  If she is going too far, then you obviously did something wrong.  Perhaps she is in control of the relationship, in any case, you didn�t perform your duty as a man to keep her attracted to you, and to keep her craving your attention.

A man must learn to accept a woman for who she is not who she was and must build from the imperfections that both come to apprehend from each other.

•  - I agree with this, but you mustn�t forget who she was, as the past has a nasty habit of creeping back up to the present.  I am only saying to take caution.

Most importantlya man should try to reflect the love of God to his woman and be the very clothing that shades her from harm.

•  - I agree, men should always protect their women.

I disagree with:

Men must respect people of all cultures and nationalities and must free themselves from those who are opposite.

-         A man must have his opinion on certain issues.  If you don�t like something, say it, and say it with a passion.  You don�t need to free yourself from anybody; guard yourself against those that oppose you and make your position clear, that is how you earn respect.

Men must be kind, and caring.

-         Again with this kind and caring.  I don�t agree with this.  Yes, men should display some benevolence, but to always be kind and caring is to always be weak.  Believe me, as soon as I dropped the whole kind and caring bit, my relationship with women became much more powerful.  Again, I don�t mean being abusive.  If you are abusive towards women then you deserve to go to jail.

Men must try to make an effort to empathize with his wife when she cannot.

-         I agree with this to a certain extent.  You should listen to you wife, but you should never try to solve her problem unless she asks you to.  Most of the time women just want to talk; they don�t need you to get involved.

Over all I agreed with most of your guidelines, however, I had to disagree with those few.

Peace,
Arabian

A man should be good to his wife. He should take care of her and try his best to provide for her and should not torture her mentally and physically. But if he tries to pretend what he is not, I don't think he will be able to do that for long.

ZamanH

According to you, you can just get another wife and trade them out.

As'Salaamu Alaikum,

Arabian I read your long response and quite frankly that is a sad tale. From your response it appears that you were commenting on a cultural....ah well nevermind its pointless to talk here anymore

Salam Israfil,

Yes, I was commenting on the difference in culture, but all women are human and respond to the same animalistic cues to attraction, just like men, except in a different way.

Peace,
Arabian

Assalamu alaikum,

It would seem that there are many opinions as to what would or would not attract women, what does or does not make a good husband/wife, what kind of person makes the best companion for life.

As an old, married gal, let me put in my two cents.  Over the long haul, kindness trumps all other attributes - no ifs, ands or buts about it.

Good post, brother Israfil.

Peace, ummziba.

As'Salaamu Alaikum

Thanks sister Ummziba..Unfortunately Arabian didn't get my point. I take mere examples of the prophet. When the prophet attended to those unaware of Islam did he show the opposite of kindness? No. Did he show the opposite of kindness towards women? No. Unfortunately Arabian you are taking the very few women in your culture and you link them in categorization saying "They take kjindness for weakness" yet a man such as yourself present yourself weak if you give in to those very few.

If a man changes a positive attribute about himself to fit into society then he is a weak man himself. Kindness is not weak. Women who take kindness for weakness is ignorant themselves especially ignorant to the fact that in society, kindness is very much beneficial. On top of that, to say "I stop being kind and caring which allowed my relationships to be more powerful" is not the attitude that evolves a sustain and fulfilling relationship. Power is shared by the couples abilities not by their behavior.

I again reiterate my point of view that Arabian you can only judge base on your own cultural experience but you cannot judge the world. Arabian you also disagreed with, that men shouldn't empathize with women. Do you know what empathize means? You obviously mistook it as being one who initiates something which doesn't allow the woman to offer her problems to her husband, and if you thought this way you are wrong.

What I mean by empathize is to be a supporting tool for a man's wife if she is experiencing problems. I made this in the sense of of marital relationships. If a woman suffers so does her husband. I don't know one relationship where if a woman goes through something her husband doesn't know. Because a woman doesn't offer to share her problems doesn't mean she is shutting the man away. I believe you mistook what I said for something else.

You also disagreed with what I said when I mentioned that 'men must respect all cultures and nationalities and must free themselves from those who are the opposite (of those who respect cultures and nationalities).

How do you disagree? So if your friend was a racist against other cultures does that mean he/she is your friend? Why do you befriend someone who is a racist? Again read my question then respond before you blantantly reject what I said. Again you missed my point when I mentioned "respect cultures and nationalities." So if a man is a passionate racist that makes it alright? Or if a man hates Jews he should do so with passion? Or a man should only separate himself if the other is opposing Islamic values. Come On Guys we cannot sound hypocritical here.

A true Muslim respect all cultures and nationalities and religions, as he/she is rightly guided by God. If a muslim witnesses truth he/she does not need to conduct themselves negatively towards other religious beliefs just because he/she belives that they are rightly guided. In fact to act KIND towards others of different faiths can actually be beacon for other Muslims to follow which perhaps in the future will lead people to ISLAM.

Again Arabian read what I mean from now on before you respond because you totally missed my point.

Lameese wrote: ZamanH According to you, you can just get another wife and trade them out.

What makes you think so?? I strongly suspect that you know what you said is untrue (you want to embarass me or something)

ZamanH,

Well, you say there is nothing wrong with Pologamy and infact it is needed. So, to you, you can just get another one if you cannot "be who you are not" with her.

Trying to emabrrass you? Using your words? nahhhhh.

Lameese

So, to you, you can just get another one if you cannot "be who you are not" with her.

Well, yes. How does that relate to "trading them out'?? I will keep the first one with me as well. I thought you wanted to compare me with those who do, they are rare (I think you know it), and I am not like them.

Well, if you "cannot be who you are" then you would have to "trade them out".  Or I assume you would be lying to one and pretending to not be who you are and not lying to the other. 

They are rare? Have you lookd at the Saudi Arabia lately?

Lameese

ummziba,

I have found that older women (and younger Islamic women) are looking more for the husband type.  That is the man who is caring and willing to start a family with.  My methods are not for those who want to get married and start a family (blikh).

Israfil,

I am not only taking in consideration those very few American woman.  I am also putting in the women I met in Canada, and in Mexico.  I am also adding to the equation those women I met in Germany, in the UK and in France, and what men like me have experienced world wide.  I have found them all to follow the same rules of attraction.  You need to understand, attraction is NOT a choice.  Women don't choose to be attracted to men, certain biological processes occur in order to trigger the attraction.  Just like most men are not attracted to girls with flat chests, behinds, and no hips.  You can't choose to be attracted to this kind of woman.

Here is an excerpt from a book on attraction:

"Most guys try to CONVINCE a woman to feel attracted to them with compliments, or gifts, etc., or HOPE that it will happen if they are just �nice guys.� But this can never work.

What they don't understand is the difference between ATTRACTION and �affection.� Attraction isn't a choice, and it happens quickly or not at all. If you wait, go on dates, etc., affection may develop, but never attraction. Affection brings friendship, attraction brings passion.

Basically, inner sexuality is protected by the persona unless you communicate directly through to it. Once you know how, you can make a woman feel sexual attraction very rapidly this way. No gifts, dinners, or compliments required.

I believe that men are all born with the ability to communicate on this level and to trigger sexual attraction inside a woman. A variety of sources, including our culture, religion, etc., have buried this natural ability, or never allowed it to develop... or maybe we just never realized that it was there in the first place."

Also Israfil, I am not being weak by behaving this way.  I am being smart.  I know how women think and what causes them to be attracted to us men.  I use this to make the women feel so incredible that they will absolutely fall in love with me.  And guess what, every guy has the ability to do this.

Israfil, I most certainly understand what empathize means, do you understand what my post means?

Israfil, it seems you are the one who missed my point entirely.  I am not saying that one should be racist, not at all.  I am saying that if people from a certain culture hate you, why should you respect them in return?  For those who are hard of hearing, I am not saying hate the culture, I am saying don't respect those people who want to see you and your religion dead.


ooofff, Israfil you have completely misunderstood me.  I didn't think I had to explain every little word to get my point across.  Long story short, those attributes you described are not sexually attractive to women.  If you follow those qualities you will get married in an arranged way, and never really truly know what love is.

Peace,
Arabian

Arabian,

You are free to do as you like.  Each person is responsible for his or her own actions.

Practicing Muslim men and women are not looking for sexual experiences (most especially not with multiple partners).  Practicing Muslim men and women are looking for pious, kind mates who will be good life partners and help them increase their deen (religion), not someone who will help them down the slippery slope to hell.

For Muslims, zina (sex outside of legal marriage) is a huge sin.  Your "prowess" with women doesn't impress me.  I'm sure it doesn't ultimately impress the women you make "absolutely fall in love with" you and then dump either.

You are surely posting on the wrong forum if you think your boasting about your sexual predation of women is appropriate or even appreciated by anyone here.

Peace, ummziba.

ummziba,

Your "prowess" with women

Hey, thanks for noticing.  ummziba, I am not in the business of hurting women.  It seems to me that you are bothered by my 'using' of women but you need to understand that I do not 'use' women.  The sexual intercourse is mutual; if the women does not want sex, then I don't force it upon her.  Most of these women want sex just as much as I do.  I learn and read up on what women want and how to make women feel so incredible that they fall in love.  What is wrong with making a woman feel good?  I love it, because when my women feels good and loves me, I feel good and love her.  My relationships are full of passion and romance; I like to keep the friction strong for as long as the courtship lasts.  I don't see anything wrong with this.  Shia's and a few other sects of Islam permit this through mut'a.

Peace to you, humble ummziba,
Arabian

In the name of God, the merciful compassionate

It appears that you are making a comment, like sister Ummziba has mentioned, in the case of "secual attaction." In the Islamic setting the first goal of a man is not to find a woman who he can be secually attracted to. The first goal of a man is to find a companion who shares like interest, and most importantly one who can increases ones Iman with.

You apparently noting your excapdes across the world and wht so-called different women want. This is still unimpressive. You claim to have noted a few women but the fact remains, as you mention "to your experience." Everyones experience is different. As I have seen in many women where I live most adult and mature women more important would like a kind and caring man because in the end (Inshallah) as we get old that is what matters most not what makes a women feel sexually attracted to man. That is not only a shallow view but a view which totally is not in accordance with Islam.

No offense buddy but I've been there and done that. I have sexual intercourse with many women (prior to my conversion) and I find that unfulfilling. Most women "according to my experience" want a man who is kind, caring, ambitious a commnicative person and a person who is humble. All these attributes makes what a real man is...OOPS I forgot for some of you who are indeed hard of hearing these are traits in which the Qur'an has noted.

Funny how so-called Shia permit sexual intercourse outside of marriage as something permissible in Islam, this is the problem with sects in the first place....

DavidC,

Self confidence is a major part in the game of attraction.  Without it you will go nowhere.

I agree that you can be kind and self confident and still be attractive, but the cocky guy who is self confident will create a much greater attraction.  In other words, the bad boy.

Here is an excerpt from a popular book, "Bad Boys" by Carol Lieberman and Lisa Collier:

"...What is a bad boy? He's a rebel without a cause, a cool dude in a motorcycle jacket, a real-life Huckleberry Finn who wants to take you on a wild river ride to adventure. He's wounded, moody, misunderstood-a dreamer, a seducer, a daredevil. He is a man of mystery and a fascinating paradox. He's both a lost little boy and a man with a dark side. He breaks your heart with his wicked ways, but whether he's a wanton wolf or a dangerous desperado, he makes you long to rescue him from his pain. He's hurtful cruel, or simply careless and self-absorbed, but you can't resist jumping on his motorcycle and roaring off into the steamy night with him. And once you've given him your heart forever... he's gone with the wind! He is someone who sets off throbbing sexual and aggressive passions within you. Because he's aloof and elusive, you get caught up in the challenge and excitement of the chase-though he's not always someone you'd really want even if you did capture him. A bad boy may tell you he's generally right. He's a frog you hope to turn into a fairy-tale prince with the magic of your kiss..."

What are these fine ladies telling us men?  That they don't like wussies!

Israfil,

Not only my experience, but the experience of hundreds of men.

Peace,
Arabian

This is To all the men here please read! Brother Arabian God's Blessings be upon you but please read the following:

Back in the days prior to my conversion I used to be with a lot of women. I used to go to clubs I used to get drunk and usually go home with a young woman where I would have sexual intercourse with her. I used to think this was cool and that she liked it. In fact, many women did. But occasionally you will get women who engage in this type of relationship then eventually you will have one that gets attached to you. I didn't like it so I would leave her. There were women who said that I had gotten them preganant there were some that tried to say that they had AIDSto scare me in getting back with them. there were even ones who said that they would marry me.

Arabian you mentioned bad boys? I was a bad boy at one time. I used to hurt guys really bad and even pulled a gun on one guy for even looking at me. I was in no gang I was in no big rebellious group I was a so-called loner. I hung out with friends and we partied but I was always gotten into fights. I hurt many many many many guys in the process and praise God I never went to jail for it, however I regret it tremendously. In the process I hurt many women.

However at one point of my life I had to aski myself what am I doing? Eventually I had to take that long walk and remember the teachings of my mother. Eventually I became more of the "nice guy" instead of the "bad boy" of course as you noted Arabian being nice is not to ones advantage. LOL but so as being Muslim. In today's society being Muslim is not to an advantage, yet I call myself Muslim because I won't change to fit society. I became Muslim to find God. The same as with being a nice and caring man. There is nothing wrong with being confident but confidence and kindness are separate attributes of a man.

Women who like so-called "bad boy" are not only inexperienced but they are fools because a so-called bad boy is not always committed to relationships and if they are its called booty calls. There is nothing fulfilling in sexual relationships unless its your wife. If you call youself a Muslim but engage in these activities then I suggest you take the time out for yourself and renew your faith to Allah. If women in the world are changing to love so-called bad boys then yes I will be alone for a long time. I cannot change who I am because if I do I am weak, I am weak not because of trying to convert in what society likes but weak because I want to change a positive attribute.

If women dislike you because you are "nice" or "kind" then they are not the women for you. I thought about going back to my old ways but eventually as the women I';ve met made me realize its not "the business." Women like nice and sweet guys. It doesn't mean your a wimp. The people who you quote these books dont know mailto:!@#% - !@#% I was a bad boy, I know I used to have many experience and I've found they are not fulfilling. I know guys now who are still bad boys and guess what? They are still unmarried and still in the hunt to find the right one. A true woman loves a man for who he is. Trust me I'm loving, caring, compassionate, and nice but doesn't mean I'm a wimp. It doesn't mean I'll let another man come up to me and spit in my face or physically harm me. OH no! that wouldn't happen. But we men must reflect the nature Allah has shown in the Qur'an.

The problem with society today is the image, especially in America the image from the past from movies to music videos people are so in tuned with what they see that is the image they want for a man. A rebellious man gets nowhere. Was the prophet rebellious? Yes becuse he rebelled against the Quraysh to bring Islam. Was Muhammad a bad boy? No. Because he said in a hadith that the best Muslim is one that is GOOD to his wife. The prophet neverused "bad boy" nor did he say you must act slightly rebellious to  get the attention of a woman. Again Too bad Muslims in various sects have chopped that passage in the hadith to oblivion.

Arabian my lasting statement to you is to think about what I said because in the end you will realize what I mean. I can gurantee you most women especially as they get older in their life and have been through relationships most would prefer to be with a sweet loving man rather than a cheap dead beat rebel! LOL

P.S BTW those hundreds of men you noted  I am one of them as I have shown here my experience as being a Bad Boy. Like I said before people who make books on being bad dont know crap!

Israfil,

Thank you for that long, heart filled post about your past experiences.  I understand where you are, and what you represent and I admire your consistency to Allah.  I on the other hand am a bit behind you in the spiritual ladder.  Insha'allah, one day Allah will guide me out of this phase.  In all honesty, I can't help it.  I need to be with women, it is like an addiction.  I remember once, way back in high school; I had a friend that was the first of us to have sex.  This friend told us that once you get it, you will always crave more.  Sure enough, we all went out and got some sort of sex, and sure enough, it has become an addiction.

Don't get me wrong, I have tried to stop many times, but there is always a new girl, a new club.  There is always a new trip; hey some French girls, ohh my god, some Lebanese girls, oooowww some Italian chicks!  I just can�t help it.

The main issue is that there are women everywhere.  A walk in the mall can turn into a night full of passion; hell even a simple stop at the grocery store.  Women are everywhere, and I crave those sweet luscious mates where ever I can find them.

Peace,
Arabian

My Dear Bro Arabian,

You posts elsewhere on the forum refered to this thread has brought me here. So, it is in this regard, after reading your views about your experiences with women, I realized that probably womenization is also a disease in which people get addicted. Hmmm!

However, I don't think sex is the only business between a man and a women togather in their life. There is much beyond that. Once you get you pistol empty, the meaning of true love starts from then onward and not before. Once one has to deal with extreme dislikes of his partner, and yet live a happy life, its then, when the meaning of true love start to make sense. All you have experienced in your whole narrations is just a small fraction of real life. Real life is much more than this and yet much different than an experience of just one nights that too with those who also want to share just a night with you. Imagine what will happen when the children also come into this life style? Probably, its then when the meaning of real life may start making sense. Isn't it? 

Brother Ahmad,

There are a great many things that I will keep away from my children, but intercourse is not among those.  I will tell them the ruling of such behavior, and what the punishment is and Allah will guide from there.

I agree that their is more than sex, but at this point in my life, I am not looking for anything more than sex.  I do not want to get married so early to start learning about love; I want to meet with, and have sex with as many women as possible.  I agree that at times I am curious and extend the relationship to learn as much as possible, but I rarely do this.  I would prefer to know the woman (from a previous encounter), call her when I need her (to go clubbing and such), and leave it at that.

Peace,
Arabian

Arabian wrote: Ahmed, Though I am not a believer, my friend is.  The point of this thread is to show him, through his own religion, that what he is doing is wrong. Peace, Arabian

Assalamu alaikum Muslim brothers and sisters:

Perhaps this quote from the general discussions section shows us all that we are possibly wasting our breath on someone who admits that he is "not a believer".  Silly us.  Should have seen it right off.

Peace, ummziba.

Arabian wrote: Brother Ahmad, There are a great many things that I will keep away from my children, but intercourse is not among those.  I will tell them the ruling of such behavior, and what the punishment is and Allah will guide from there. I agree that their is more than sex, but at this point in my life, I am not looking for anything more than sex.  I do not want to get married so early to start learning about love; I want to meet with, and have sex with as many women as possible.  I agree that at times I am curious and extend the relationship to learn as much as possible, but I rarely do this.  I would prefer to know the woman (from a previous sexual encounter), call her when I need her (to go clubbing and such), and leave it at that. Peace, Arabian

 Could please someone kick that human? out,please!!!!....

Arabian wrote: Suleyman, Ummziba, Why such hard words directed towards an innocent person such as myself?  We all sin, no body is perfect in this world.  I have only shown kindness to you people and you attack me so violently because I do not believe what you believe in.  For the sake of Islam I will not consider your words as a representation of the Muslim community, because true Muslims will not attack a fellow human in such a rude manner. Peace to you all, Arabian

 Ok i agree that i was rude;i am correcting...could please someone will show the way to Mr Arabian?;Merci!,i will be very pleased;thanks for everyone for their efforts on this way ...

 Ok,of course i was joking...keep on reading in the board,we have got so much things to share with u...peace,sorry it was also rude;i am correcting...la peace...

Arabian,

I suggest you leave your cravings, lusts and maniacal fiendish posts for some other place and some other friends to share with. This is an Islamic forum and unnecessary emphasis on certain subjects is not welcome.

Humans have been granted with intellect which distinguishes them from animals.  Without intellect your "homing device" will take you straight to hell.

MOCKBA,

I have read and reviewed the forum guidelines and have realized that I have stepped over a few rules.  I apologize for this, and I will make an attempt to stop this from happening in the future.

Peace,
Arabian

Arabian wrote: Brother Ahmad, There are a great many things that I will keep away from my children, but intercourse is not among those.  I will tell them the ruling of such behavior, and what the punishment is and Allah will guide from there. I agree that their is more than sex, but at this point in my life, I am not looking for anything more than sex.  I do not want to get married so early to start learning about love; I want to meet with, and have sex with as many women as possible.  I agree that at times I am curious and extend the relationship to learn as much as possible, but I rarely do this.  I would prefer to know the woman (from a previous sexual encounter), call her when I need her (to go clubbing and such), and leave it at that. Peace, Arabian

Arabian,

You need to start asking yourself if you believe your rationalizations and excuses will sound as good to Allah's ears. Because there are certian rules that are given for you to live by and you seem to flaunt them in our faces and really in Allah's face.

You play, you pay. Are these women really worth being to condemmed to hell for? And when you do have children and try to teach them right from worng and they find out about your past, is it really worth your children knowing you are a hypocrite? and not respecting you?

You need to think about many things because you never know when it will be your time to face Allah.

Lameese

Suleyman,

Your faith in me is most honored and respected.  May Allah's deepest blessings be upon you.

Lameese,

You pose good points.  My answer to your question is no; these women are not worth a ticket to hell.

I did not intend for this thread to go so far out of topic, but it has happened nevertheless.  In a way I am glad that I have posted my opinion here.  I sat down and really thought about why I do these things, and I realized the reason.  The reason is the pressure I get from those around me.  All my friends, always talking about this girl and that girl.  It was a normal thing for me.  I never saw it as a huge crime because everybody was doing it.

There was a time where I was going to stop it all.  And I tried to; I really and truly gave it all my effort.  I met this wonderful woman in my honors class, a nice clean woman.  I decided to drop everything; I truly believed she was sent to stop my wicked ways.  I became gentle, bought her a nice �cute� teddy bear that held a rose and asked her out on a date.  I constantly praised her, telling her how beautiful she was; and do you know what happened?  I failed miserably.  Do you know what I did?  I didn�t even wait one day after that.  The same night I failed with her, I went back to my old ways and found another woman.

I am glad I posted my opinion because I finally got a second opinion on my behavior.  When I posted my objections to Israfil�s post I thought I would get a more positive response as I have always gotten from this topic.  Instead I get the opposite.  You people have taught me that there are other ways to go about living with women, and it doesn�t have to include sex.  Will I change from this experience?  I don�t know, I hope so.  If I change, will I be weaker?  I don�t think so!

Peace to you all,
Arabian

Arabian,

Subhanallah!

In every woman or a girl you see try to visualise someone's mother, someone's future mother... Think of one day having a daughter and imagine how would you feel if someone expressed his lustful interest with his eye and mannerism to her... imagine someone's thoughts caressing your wife-to-be's beauty at a shopping mall when you are not around... and reflect! 

We are all humans and we all have certain preferences and desires. It is not castration (physical or mental) that is required for the salvation. It is taking control over shahwa and being obedient to Allah as much as we can.

Take it easy, insha Allah.

Arabian wrote: Lameese, You pose good points.  My answer to your question is no; these women are not worth a ticket to hell. I did not intend for this thread to go so far out of topic, but it has happened nevertheless.  In a way I am glad that I have posted my opinion here.  I sat down and really thought about why I do these things, and I realized the reason.  The reason is the pressure I get from those around me.  All my friends, always talking about this girl and that girl.  It was a normal thing for me.  I never saw it as a huge crime because everybody was doing it.   Peace to you all, Arabian

Arabian,

I know I am going to sound like your mother here but.... you cannot blame others for your actions now. I understand everyone else is doing it and I understand the pressure. But you are more or less an adult now (I do not know your age) and you are responsible for YOUR behavior, no one elses. Your friends might be doing it but they do not have to go to hell for you either.

I am not being mean here, I was your age once and I understand what it is to be young. But you have to remember, for every action there is a reaction. And you do not want your children to ever see you in this light, nor  the woman you finally decide to marry, nor your sweet mama.  You know in your soul what you should be doing, now make your heart listen to you. You have to really want to change. That is the only way you will change.

I wish you luck!

Alla Ma3ak,

Lameese

Salam to Arabian,

Allah hu Alim (Allah (alone) is the judge).

I think you are confused about your true motivations and goals. Allah (s.w.a.) placed the desire for a physical connection between man in women in us, and provided us with the proper means to fulfill this desire in a way that brings us closer to him. You are confusing the means (sexual intercourse) with the goal (spritual perfection, attaining nearness to Allah (s.w.a.).

Allah (s.w.a.) has made it clear for us the rules and regulations regarding this aspect of our lives in Quran and Hadith. If you choose to ignore these regulations, then you will not acheive the peace that you are seeking. The rules are not meant to restrict your ability to find satisfaction, in fact, the opposite is true. The purpose of these rules is to allow the individual to fulfill ones needs while progreesing towards the goal.

Salam

Salaam,

I'm curious why the moderators deleted my post but I just wanted to say that I'm glad there is some evolution involved with the remarks of what people are talking about when it comes to personalities.

Bismillah

Israfil wrote: I'm curious why the moderators deleted my post...

Myself not aware, brother Israfil.

Israfil wrote: Salaam,   I'm curious why the moderators deleted my post but I just wanted to say that I'm glad there is some evolution involved with the remarks of what people are talking about when it comes to personalities.

This is an serious problem should be solved...i am thinking on it...

Salaam,

Perhaps my post was not properly inserted after I finished but I then again this is not the first case where I assumed that my post was deleted so maybe this can be a mental note to the moderators here. I just wanted to finally add that its quite pleasant to see that many of you take this subject seriously. I have to again reiterate the importance of mankinds conduct to one another. We are all creatures on God's planet who at some point in life are finding our way towards the right behavior. Each attitude reflects our own understanding of ourselves and how we must be in this world.

This is the importance that God has mentioned in the Qur'an. God never mentioned perfection being an important trait to apprehend but the effort of being good and doing good deeds. I understand for many men its quite hard to be consistent. For me personally its hard being Muslim. God mentions that in the Qur'an we are ever tried--even goes on to raise the question whether humans would think of obtaining paradise without being tried?

I believe that the Qur'an contains the blueprint of a being a good man, and as our beloved prophet extends in the Hadith, the best Muslim is one who is (first) good to his wife. Goodness is the key to sustaining ones faith. Goodness is the quality in which sustains the human race. Goodness is a quality in which creates the smile in a child. Goodness is an abstract quality in which creates a ripple in the human family that eventually reciprocates. I believe that ultimately we must reflect this quality.

Assalamu Alaikum,

Arabian, first, I'm an American woman from the US and I don't find your attitude towards woman attractive at all.  Nor do I consider kindness as a weakness in men.  In fact, I find the Islamic attitude toward men, woman and their partnership to be most glorious.  I want to be married someday to a good, pious Islamic man...and no, not an arranged married.  I know that if he is pious, not only will he be kind to me, he will help me in my path to Allah (swt), he will provide for me and he will also help me achieve sexual satisfaction.  It is a misnomer to believe that because someone is Muslim that they will have a passionless marriage.  If both partners are pious, they will love one another and give each what they need in all areas of life.  This does not mean that all Muslim marriages achieve this, but that is not the fault of Islam.  Islam protects these things, it is cultures and traditions that get in the way and cause marriages to fall short of what Allah (swt) ordained for them.

Second, you said, "I truly believed she was sent to stop my wicked ways."  What you overlook is that there is only one that can do that for you, Allah (swt).  If you want to stop your wicked ways, and I do believe that your ways are wicked, then you must submit your will to Allah (swt).  Until you are able to do that, you will continue on that path.  And if you do, it is recorded in the Qur'an what you will get on the Day of Judgment.  I know that you like sex, but I fear the kind of sex you will get in hell won't be of your liking.

Third, I once heard a man say that a real man is one that can put all of his efforts into loving one woman.  He said that the easy way out was dating many because you never had to be serious or committed.  So, maybe your actions are a mere from of escapism.  You may say, �Well, then Islam doesn't allow for real men because it allows for more than one wife.�  But even in Islam when a man takes more than one wife, he is obligated to provide for all of their needs and to do so justly.  Taking another wife doesn�t allow him to sidestep any of his Islamic responsibilities.   In fact, only a few Muslim men are truly able to fulfill the requirements of having more than one wife.  Note, Allah (swt) give men this right in order to provide for society in times of crisis, not to simply use women in the same way a dog would use a bitch (i.e., a female dog).

Forth, it is unjust for you to bring up the issue of mu'ta marriages and attribute that kind of behavior to Islam.  Even if mu'ta marriages were legal at one time in Islamic history the situation in which it was approved was not simply so that Muslimic men could "play the field."  It was a situation of war when men were many months away from their families.  It was sanctioned as a means to keep them from committing adultery and from treating the female captives in harmful ways.  I don't know of any time in Islamic history that mu'ta marriages were sanctioned other than for that purpose.  And, once the days of heavy battle were over, mu'ta marriages were made illegal.  Just because there is a group of Muslims that still carry out this practice does not mean that it is lawful or that it is currently an Islamic right.

Fifth, you attitude and behaviors toward women is exactly why Allah (swt) gave us hijabb�Allahu Akbar.

PAZ (peace)

Asslamuaikum

Very apt analysis Khadija.

Ma Salaam

Arabian wrote: Brother Ahmad, ................. I agree that their is more than sex, but at this point in my life, I am not looking for anything more than sex.  ................................... Peace, Arabian

So, my dear brother Arabian, your comments on the topic of this thread are little naive when you say "

These male attributes are indeed essential towards the Muslim man living in a Muslim community.  However, in my own community, where arranged marriage is not an option, following these qualities will doom you to failure."

I can understand having a Muslim wife, or a wife that has been raised around Muslim communities, as to why being �kind� is accepted, but I have found that in my community, with my experience with women, that women see kindness as a weakness in a man.  Instead I have found that women are more attracted to the man who is aloof, careless, arrogant, and wild in nature."

Your encounter with the women is extremely limited and narrow. One can't have sound analysis with such an experience to comment upon the life of a married person, especially from a Muslim's perspective.

no!..no!...no!...so wrong examples and comments...big waste and sin...Subhan'Allah...

MOCKBA,

Thank you for your sound advice.  I appreciate your concern, but I don�t think I will condition myself to view women as sisters or future mothers.  I agree, that would be very effective, but it would be very awkward.

Lameese,

You have to really want to change. That is the only way you will change.

You hit the nail on the head.  The only way to change is to want to change.  Maybe I am not ready to change?  You know, a few years back, before I started all of this, a close friend approached me (he is about 8 years older than me).  He told me to pray rik�atan to Allah to take this away from me.  He began to tell me about his wonderful pious marriage to an American woman who he converted to Islam (by will of Allah).  I told him he was right, but I didn�t listen to him.  I didn�t want this to go away; I wanted to indulge in it, and I did.  It was a mixture of hate and lust but it was powerful.  Every time I tell myself that it is time to quit, something always comes back up and drags me back down.

Ali,

Read my above post.

AhmadJoyia,

I was commenting on the unmarried women; however that is not to say that married women are not attracted to those qualities as well.  Also, not all women are the same, some women find my ways unattractive.

Peace,
Arabian

Arabian wrote: Suleyman, You know you're my bro right?  I love you man. I know there are some 'good' women out there, but I don't want to have to resort to ICMarriage to find them.  My cousin found a wonderful woman, like him (sexually), to marry and has had a great marriage so far, why can't I do the same?

 Right Arabian,but if u will tell ur experiences with out making the generalization then it should be more good for us...i am out side the discussions, the decision is between u and the rules of the board...wa salaam..

If I am going against the rules of the board, then I give full permission for the moderators to edit/delete my posts and truly apologize for my insubordination.  I understand that I may have over stepped a few boundaries but I needed to voice my opinion.  I am debating the issue of sex before marriage, which is a big part of Islam and is considered a big sin.  The members on this board are discussing this issue with me, but do not understand why I behave in this way.  I am merely clarifying my reasons for such behavior.

Also, I did not generalize.  -- Edit --

-- Edit --

Peace,
Arabian

I have edited the post and will re-write it in a 'better' way as soon as I get back from work.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

As i always say,Brother Arabian is an living man,wonderful man...this board is wonderful!,i was jealous to the board of Jannah.org as they are an big family...but we also too...

http://www.bobmarley.com/songs/ram/threebirds.ram">
BOB MARLEY/THREE LITTLE BIRDS




The song was written on the step at the back of 56 Hope Road, where Bob loved to sit and write songs. As spliffs were rolled, the seeds from the herb would be thrown onto the ground where birds would pick them up in their beaks. Hence the title, the three little birds being a trio of ground doves.

Don't worry about a thing
'Cause ev'ry little thing gonna be alright
Singin', "Don't worry about a thing,
'Cause ev'ry little thing gonna be alright."

Rise up this morning,
Smiled with the rising sun
Three little birds pitch by my doorstep
Singin' sweet songs of melodies pure and true
Sayin', "This is my message to you-u-u."
Singin'...
(Repeat)

"Don't worry about a thing,
'Cause ev'ry little thing gonna be al-right."
(4 times)

Brother Arabian said

"Suleyman,

You know you're my bro right?  I love you man.

I know there are some 'good' women out there, but I don't want to have to resort to ICMarriage to find them.  My cousin found a wonderful woman, like him (sexually), to marry and has had a great marriage so far, why can't I do the same?"

The reason I call you brother like any other human being, is because I believe deep down you are transforming your soul back to its Muslim state. But in response to what you are saying I have to say as well as criticize that, you have forgotten what I have posted. REal women, most mature do not want a man to just sexually satisfy them. Women want a man who can be beyond that. The standards nare far greater with Muslim women, trust me I know. I knew a beautiful Muslim woman outside and in who stopped talking to me because I said "I could kiss you" as an expression to the wonderful poem she wrote me. However illogical I thought this was she had certain standards that I shouldn't have crossed (which she never told me though).

Brother because your cousin or brother may have had a certain marriage work because of whatever tactic they used doesn't mean it will work for you. In Islam every situation is different accordiong to the will of God. God is the author of life and the universe and one of the things we Muslims take into consideration is the path we take as we make certain desicions in our lives. nI believe sex is not the answer. Even though a woman maybe "whipped" because of your sexual ability (excuse my language here) doesn't mean that its love. Like I said I know listen to your bro. Its better to be safe than sorry because most intelligent women do not put up with non-ambitious men.

Brother Israfil,

I apologize for the misunderstanding.  That post was written in relevance to the post which I edited.

It sounds to me like that girl you speak of either has strict rules which she follows or has been hurt by another man earlier in her life and does not want to go through such pain again.  With this scenario I will go with the first option.

I don't like when women behave like that.  She wrote you a wonderful poem and when you gave her some validation for what she did, she stomps all over you.  Maybe she wanted a poem in return?  I don't know, women are very illogical.

As for that edited post; I haven�t found the time to re-write it yet.  Life has become much more complicated at the moment and probably wont clear up until tomorrow or Wednesday.

Peace,
Arabian

Salam,

Arabian, I feel hurt and rejected that you didn't make a response to my post.   You seen to be great at responding to everyone that makes comments on your posts even if to say that they are merely a waste of your time.  Is it because I'm a woman and this is a thread for men?  I was so looking forward to you harsh criticism.

PAZ

Arabian wrote: ....AhmadJoyia, I was commenting on the unmarried women; however that is not to say that married women are not attracted to those qualities as well.  Also, not all women are the same, some women find my ways unattractive. Peace, Arabian

Well, even then, your views with limited and skewed experiences with women is nothing but a premature analysis. 

Salam

Arabian, was it that bad?  I wasn't trying to offend you.  But I'm glad you weren't simply overlooking me either. 

PAZ

Khadija1021 wrote: Salam Arabian, was it that bad?  I wasn't trying to offend you.  But I'm glad you weren't simply overlooking me either.  PAZ

I think you hit the nail on the head with your post!

Lameese