Print Page | Close Window

Water-Fuel Powered Car

Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: General
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Description: General Discussion
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12653
Printed Date: 26 April 2024 at 5:55pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Water-Fuel Powered Car
Posted By: abuayisha
Subject: Water-Fuel Powered Car
Date Posted: 14 June 2008 at 5:42pm
http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=84561 - http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=84561 &;



Replies:
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 15 June 2008 at 6:57am
water fuel powered car, wouldn't go down well in my country we are on water restrictions.

-------------
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 16 June 2008 at 9:19pm
Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

assalamu alikum

thanks for posting this brother, the way they reported it you'd think it was everyday the big petroleum companies went out of business.

Angel the car runs on sea water, you can even go have picnic and drink some tea with the car LOL

--------------------

Official Website

  • http://www.genepax.co.jp/en/ - http://www.genepax.co.jp/en/

How it Works

The main feature of the new system is that it uses the company's membrane electrode assembly (MEA), which contains a material capable of breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen through a chemical reaction. With the new process, the cell needs only water and air, eliminating the need for a hydrogen reformer and high-pressure hydrogen tank. Moreover, the MEA requires no special catalysts, and the required amount of rare metals such as platinum is almost the same as that of existing systems. It is expected to have a longer life because catalyst degradation (poisoning) caused by CO does not occur on the fuel electrode side.

120W fuel cell system

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Image:Genepax120WFuelcellsystem_200.jpg">

The voltage of the fuel cell stack is 25-30V. Because the stack is composed of 40 cells connected in series, it is expected that the output per cell is 3W or higher, the voltage is about 0.5-0.7V, and the current is about 6-7A. The power density is likely to be not less than 30mW/cm2 because the reaction area of the cell is 10 x 10 cm.


300W fuel cell system

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Image:Genepx300Wfuelcellsystem_200.jpg">

The 300W fuel cell system is an active system, which supplies water and air with a pump. In a demonstration, Genepax powered a TV and the lighting equipment with a lead-acid battery charged by using the system. In addition, the 300W system was mounted in the luggage coppartment of a compact electric vehicle "Reva" manufactured by Takeoka Mini Car Products Co Ltd, and the vehicle was actually driven by the system.

Costs

The production cost is presently about �2,000,000 (US$18,522), it estimated that it can be reduced to �500,000 ($5000) or lower if the company succeeds in mass production. http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Genepax_Co_Ltd -

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Genepax_Co_Ltd - http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Genepax_Co_Ltd


I thought this was interesting,

wiki: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Congress:Member:Richard_George - Richard P. George, Ph.D. wrote:

Even if this works (I'm somewhat skeptical short of more proof), the product is not economic at either their current manufacturing cost ($18,522 for 300 Wp or $61.74 per Wp) or their target rate ($5,000 for 300 Wp or $16.67 per Wp). The use of water for fuel is just a curiosity because the cost is greater than that of traditional fuel cells AND their fuel costs.

I would also want to know about their stack life. Stack life is a huge problem for all fuel cells - many of which have lives measured in hours (typically 6 months to 4 years of continuous operation. For this product to achieve grid parity, it would need a 20 year stack life at 9.5 cents per KWH grid prices or 10 years at 19 cents per KWH.

Genepax response: "The stack life is not yet in data but we imagine our stack would last as long as other fuel cell stack. We have data of other fuel cell in public and it lasts 40,000 hours." Best regards, Jun Onishi

--------------------

Thats about 4.5 years so esentially you would need to change parts in the feul cell or the whole cell depending on design every 4.5 years give or take. If they can bring down the price to $5000 U.S for the fuel cell that would still be cheaper than petrol, assuming you spend $100 a week on petrol thats $5200 a year on fuel....and it does rain water.

-------------------

Genepax.

June 15, 2008 We are preparing an English presentation and demonstration for foreign press which will be held in Tokyo soon.
  • Scheduled to be shown :
    Electricity Generation Module, Prototype Generator System, and All Electric Automobile with on-board WES for continuous battery charging.
  • To attend, please contact the following :
    Jun Onishi [PR Manager]
    Email: [email protected]

Anyone live in Japan Smile



-------------
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.


Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 18 June 2008 at 7:46pm
Originally posted by rami rami wrote:


Angel the car runs on sea water, you can even go have picnic and drink some tea with the car LOL 
 
that's sounds funny.
 
sea water, i guess that's ok then, our country is surrounded by it Tongue maybe it would lower the rising water levels Wink

 


-------------
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 18 June 2008 at 7:57pm

I haven't been able to figure out the exact mechanism that is being claimed here, but to be honest I haven't bothered to waste a lot of time trying to figure it out either.  There is a basic flaw to this idea: the amount of energy obtainable by combining hydrogen with oxygen is precisely equal to the amount required to separate it.  It simply can't work.



-------------
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.


Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 18 June 2008 at 9:40pm
Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

Hi Ron,

i only have basic knowledge of chemistry and understand the laws of thermodynamics on a basic level i.e energy in equals energy out but why does the energy required to separate hydrogen from oxygen [being the same amount required to join them] related to how much energy hydrogen provides as a fuel.

To me this seems like two separate issues.


-------------
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.


Posted By: imp87
Date Posted: 19 June 2008 at 4:55am

I like the idea, we have plenty of sea water to use, plus the glaciers are melting so it might stop us from flooding :D lol joke.

But I watched a program about a similar invention to this, again it was a car powered by water but just not as advance.

The guy said, the reason why so they are not in mass production yet is because the water erodes the metal pretty quick. So the life span of these cars, or at least the Motors (wherever the water goes) is much less then a fuel powered car.



-------------
We are as pieces of chess engaged in victory and defeat, our victory and defeat is from thee.


Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 19 June 2008 at 6:21am
I was thinking of eroding before didn't say anything because it was muddled up in thoughts of salt Wacko

-------------
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 19 June 2008 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by rami rami wrote:

i only have basic knowledge of chemistry and understand the laws of thermodynamics on a basic level i.e energy in equals energy out but why does the energy required to separate hydrogen from oxygen [being the same amount required to join them] related to how much energy hydrogen provides as a fuel.
The energy hydrogen provides as a fuel is the energy released when it combines with oxygen, whether it happens in a fuel cell or via combustion.  (Unless the company has solved the "cold fusion" problem, which would be very unlikely but very Cool.)


-------------
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 20 June 2008 at 10:21pm
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/articles/050725/25tech.htm - http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/articles/050725/25tech.htm
 
Honda selling this car only in SoCal....Very cool 57 MPG zero emissions and pollutants...


Posted By: rubi
Date Posted: 22 June 2008 at 11:02am

can anyone please send that car by email.



Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 22 June 2008 at 10:42pm
Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

Shaikh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Zaki_Yamani - Ahmad Zaki Yemeni Saudi minister for oil from 1962 to 1986 was on http://news.sbs.com.au/dateline/ - Dateline recently, the interview can be found http://news.sbs.com.au/dateline/interview_with_sheikh_ahmed_zaki_yamani_549555 - here .

GEORGE NEGUS: So you don't necessarily disagree with those who say that we might be seeing the beginning of the end of the era of oil as a source of energy?

SHEIKH ZAKI YAMANI: Of course when you have a very high price of oil - see what's happening - and every day we hear about a new invention here and there and they are reducing considerably their consumption of oil. But the day they use hydrogen for transportation, this is the day that oil disappears........

GEORGE NEGUS: Hope you were paying attention, Kevin [Australian prime minister], and Brendan [leader of the opposition party], for that matter. Sheikh Yamani was the guy, by the way, who came up with that memorable one-liner - 'the Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, 'and the oil age will end long before the world runs out of oil'.


-------------
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.


Posted By: infomagination
Date Posted: 25 June 2008 at 4:47am
This will be very marketable in South Africa, with the ever-increasing fuel prices :)

-------------
"One morning or evening in the path of Allah is better than the world and all it contains. A hand-span or a whip's length of Jannat is better that the world and all it contains..."Sayings of Nabi(SAW)


Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 25 June 2008 at 5:10pm
At least till now  this car for now will not sell well in Saudi, becasue the water price still much expensive compare to gasoline. he..he.. he..
 
By the way even in the USA, if we go to gas station convinient store, the water price still much more expensive compare gasoline. For example in the gas station I visited a lot, they sell the 20oz bottle water $1.39 and 1 galon gasoline is only $4.59.


-------------
Salam/Peace,

Semar

"We are people who do not eat until we are hungry and do not eat to our fill." (Prophet Muhammad PBUH)

"1/3 of your stomach for food, 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 25 June 2008 at 7:05pm
Wacko I can't believe anybody is taking this seriously!  And I don't just mean on this forum.  I did a quick search -- it's all over the Web, and hardly anybody is even questioning it.  This certainly says a lot about lack of basic science education.
 
Trust me, folks -- DO NOT invest a dime in this scam.


-------------
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.


Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 25 June 2008 at 8:10pm
Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

Science itself calls for investigation, lets wait for the demonstration first before we ridicule the invention especially when you don't know what it is they have done.


-------------
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.


Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 26 June 2008 at 7:00am
Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

Wacko I can't believe anybody is taking this seriously!  And I don't just mean on this forum.  I did a quick search -- it's all over the Web, and hardly anybody is even questioning it.  This certainly says a lot about lack of basic science education.
 
Trust me, folks -- DO NOT invest a dime in this scam.
 
 
Are you talking about the water fueled car? If so, how many other inventions started off like this.
 
There are a lot of protypes I seem to be coming across for energy efficiency and better for the environment, but whether they are viable or not it is a stepping stone for more investigations, this is the only way to develope and learn. The first computer was a huge thing but look at it now, small light weight and can sit on your lap Wink Smile
 
if you're not talking about this water fuel car, ohhhh well Big%20smile


-------------
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 26 June 2008 at 7:01am
http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=85239&videoChannel=1 - http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=85239&videoChannel=1


Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 26 June 2008 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by Angel Angel wrote:

Are you talking about the water fueled car? If so, how many other inventions started off like this.
 
I'm talking about a water-fueled car; and plenty of scams have started this way, but not a single useful invention.  Okay, I'll try just once to explain this but I don't want to get dragged into a debate about it because frankly it's just too silly.
 
Yes, hydrogen fueled cars are a great idea; and yes, hydrogen can be obtained by electrolysis from water; but NO, water is not the fuel (i.e., the energy source).  You still need an external energy source to do the electrolysis.
 
The energy required to separate a water molecule into hydrogen from oxygen is exactly the same as the energy obtained by recombining hydrogen and oxygen, i.e. burning it as a fuel.  There can be no net gain in energy -- in fact, inevitably there is a net loss due to heat, friction, electrical resistance, etc.  An engine that runs on hydrogen can never generate enough electrical energy to extract the hydrogen it needs for its own fuel, let alone having energy left over to do any useful work.
 
Hydrogen fueled cars would be very cool because hydrogen is conveniently portable for cars and energy-dense compared to a battery (i.e., can store more power per unit weight).  Generating hydrogen by electrolysis is a cool idea because it can transform a non-portable energy source (e.g., hydroelectricity) to a portable one.  And fuel cells are very cool because they are much more efficient at converting fuel to power (electricity) than internal combustion engines.
 
But no matter how you shuffle these technologies around, and no matter how efficient or advanced they become, you will never get more energy by combining hydrogen with oxygen than you consumed to split them apart.  It was called "conservation of energy" when I learned it in about Grade 5.  Scientists now prefer to call it the something-or-otherth law of thermodynamics (I can never keep the numbers straight), but it's the same thing.


-------------
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net