This seems to be the perfect setting to tell you about another ambulance person, Muhammad Salman Hamdani, a young Pakistani-American resident of New York City who was missing after the World Trade Center attacks. Hamdani had helped pay his way through Queens College by working as a part time EMT.

Salman, as his family called him, was a research assistant at Rockefeller University and was on his way to work on the morning of September 11. He did not have any reason to be in or near the Trade Center; his family believed that he saw the disaster from the elevated train that he took, that he went there to help, and died.

After Salman vanished, a New York newspaper published an article saying that he was under investigation for links to the terrorists who attacked the U.S. on September 11-- diverse irrelevant facts were adduced to support the supposition that Salman was a terrorist, such as the fact that he had studied chemistry, that he was a lab technician at the university. Fliers went up in his neighborhood saying that the FBI wanted to speak with him--fliers that were later said not to have been authorized by any law enforcement agency.

Imagine losing your child and then having to hear that he is under suspicion. This is what Salman's parents suffered. Six months later, Salman's body was found in the wreckage of the World Trade Center. What had happened was exactly what his family had believed: he had seen the disaster and he had gone there to help. He had life-saving skills and he went there to use them and he died.

Salman Hamdani is one of the lesser known heroes of the World Trade Center; several web sites which honor EMT's who died that day don't mention him. I wanted to bear witness to Salman's life and death. Salman Hamdani is who I would like to be: Someone who asks no questions but goes to help, no matter how intense the flames or how great the panic. That morning hundreds of thousands of people were running away--I was one of them-- and Salman ran in.

Today thousands of Americans and residents like Salman are under suspicion and under investigation and hundreds who are not citizens continue to be in endless immigration detention. Make no mistake about it, immigration detention is prison. And at least two Americans--one an Arab American, the other a convert to Islam-- are in military prisons, held without charges, denied access to lawyers or to a jury of their peers because they are thought to be linked to Al Quaeda. I have seen a lot of sh*t come down in my almost fifty years on earth, but--I am an optimist--I really never thought I would see a day when even American citizens were disappearing into federal custody without charges or trial.

The malevolent are too self-righteous to see it and the doubtful are too confused, but if anyone can disappear into federal custody, so could you or I. If we tolerate these abrogations of our liberties for any reason--because the towers fell on September 11 and we are fearful, because there are bad people out there seeking to kill us--then we are falling into an infantile trust of the government. The check on the system at such a moment is no longer the due process of law but simply the faith that the government which has thrown others into prison without any opportunity to clear themselves at trial will be too sensible to do the same to us. That hope is a very thin reed.

Salman illustrates for me the best about humans, but his story also illustrates the worst about us: the hostility, the suspicion that surrounded him because his name, nationality and faith were different. Today, American society has caved in under the shock of the World Trade Center attacks, while powerful opportunists have used our fear as a jumping off point for their pre-existing agenda to wage war and cancel civil liberty. At a time when a powerful few are malevolent and many more are silent and doubtful, it is left to you--you who are here today and at the other demonstrations that have taken place around the nation--to act as the counterweight. If enough of us keep doing as you are doing--bearing witness to truth and standing up for liberty--then I believe the balance will shift back again. At first the change will be barely perceptible-- you, who brought it about, will be the first to feel it. I am not saying that justice always prevails in this country, just that it has no chance of doing so without you. In dark moments I always like to remember the words of Henry David Thoreau: "The sun is but a morning star. There is more day to dawn." I am not superstitious but if I can wave any good fortune your way I want with my whole spirit to do so: Bless Salman Hamdani and bless you.

http://www.spectacle.org/yearzero/hamdani.html - http://www.spectacle.org/yearzero/hamdani.html

Extremely interesting and typical of the American phobia. Almost as powerful as your name. brother, do you ever read the Harpers Magazine - not the Harpers and Queens?

You would just float or go mad.

ZamanH

I think the story of Salman is very sad. It does illustrate the need for us to understand eachother more and not to let our fear hurt innocent people and their families. It is a fact that newspapers are very selective in what they highlight, what they report and the words they use. It is also depressing that they are allowed to get away with it. I hope people are starting to realise that not all they say is true. It makes me angry!

I would like to ask you if you'd mind explaining some things in your 'signature' too:

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend. (I think I understand this one!)
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet

Why will there be more women in hell than men? And heaven under mother's feet? Persecution is worse than the saughter of the enemy-who is the enemy? Is killing ok then?

I am not asking these things to cause anger or cause trouble-I really want to know!

Thanks

Clara

"Zaman" is very powerful name. It means the "time" and also the "universe" in the same breath. It's a very powerful expression in Farisi. Your post is even more powerful than "Zaman".

That's what I meant.

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend. (I think I understand this one!)

My point was, for friendship to be permanent it should be based on more permanent factors than enmity to a common foe. My reference was to the "divide and rule" policy of the West and how Muslims are fooled by it, as, they support the West against each other and in the end, its the West alone that wins, while the Muslims lose. Friendship that is based on more permanent factors such as trade or, even proximity should be valued more than the one that is based merely on enmity to a common foe (once the common foe goes, the friendship also ends).  

There will be more women in hell than men.
That is because I believe they cause differences amongst men. I believe they are more selfish than men.

..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)

I believe killing is right, if its for self-defence. Since the death of the Prophet, West is the greatest of all threats to emerge against Islam.

Heaven lies under mother's feet.

This is an authentic hadith regarding the gratitude one must feel towards one's mother. It was Nausheen's idea that I put it there.

An enemy of a friend... Yes, I agree on this point. But please do not include everyone who lives in the West as the enemy of Muslims. A lot of us are friends. Many of us disagree with the wars our governments have waged. MOST of us want peace.

If you mean self defence face to face as in if someone is pointing a gun at you and you manage to kill them first, I agree. If you mean bombing/shooting in the hope that those who have killed your people will be among those you kill, I disagree. I don't think this is self defence. That is how innocents die and maybe some of your supporters. 

More women in hell than men.... (I probably should not get started on this one!) I wish to say that I disagree wholeheartedly, 110%! SOME women may be more selfish than SOME men but what you say is a huge generalisation and I feel it is sexist and prejudiced. SOME men are also more selfish than SOME women. More fool those men that let women come between them!

Heaven lies under mother's feet. This is very touching and something I can relate to. I have a wonderful mother who is unfortunately battling a terrible disease. She is a beautiful person through and through. I am so grateful to her for all she has done for me. I have a huge respect for my parents.

Please know Zaman, that I am not personally attacking you! I am just letting you know my beliefs too. I really am intersted in what everyone has to say.

Clara

b95000 wrote: ZamanH wrote: Since the death of the Prophet, West is the greatest of all threats to emerge against Islam. Why?

To correct myself, West is a greatest threat to emerge to all of mankind (not just the Muslims).

Westerners became powerful because others made the mistake of trusting them. Most of their empire was created by unscrupulous traders (not because of its military) who betrayed their benefactors from other lands. Columbus actually enslaved his own saviour.

clarabelle wrote: Please know Zaman, that I am not personally attacking you! I am just letting you know my beliefs too. I really am intersted in what everyone has to say.   Clara

Yes, I understand.

"To see nuances and understand more about human nature reveals a fuller picture of responsiblities.  The West & the East are neither wholly good nor wholly bad."

I agree. I think that sometimes it is all to easy to generalise and this causes many problems.

Clara

b95000 wrote: This is not true.  To view history through one simple prism is rarely ever a true picture - whether that prism is a Western or Eastern perspective.  To see nuances and understand more about human nature reveals a fuller picture of responsiblities.  The West & the East are neither wholly good nor wholly bad.

I know truth is lot more complex. But you do need some prism to separate what is siginificant from what is insignificant. Of course, the question is who has the right prism??

The others will be tempted to learn from you only if you are not desperately trying to paste your national agenda on them. And, you learn to respect if not understand their culture, customs, perceptions and reactions to anything and evrything in the world - instead of taking it for granted that because you are American, your word should be treated as the last.

And, when they are already suffering occupations, you should refrain from rubbing salt in their wounds by focing them to accept these as some grand liberations.

B: You should know that majorities of the Afghanis have supported the MNF actions

Now just hold on to your words and back your claim with the latest situation on the ground - without your monkey business of jumping off the points.

Rest of your post it typical vulgar street stuff.

Bravo! It's racist to call Americans stupid, but it's okay for an American to hold an entire region as evil?

You hold no fresh info at all. Your reports are year too old! You can take your Karzai anywhere you like. It's a historical reality that we do not stand puppets lightly.

The stupid criminal Americans should have learnt a lesson from their British accomplices. The Brits tried a Bacha Saqah in the 1920s almost exactly like this.

He last for just about as much time. We still keep that tree where we hung him. We do not buy any Neo Con stuff.

You are again barking at the wrong tree. Go and shout at your controllers at the agency, their repots are just about as good as on those WMDs. 

Whisper wrote: A young woman was jogging in a New York park when she was suddenly attacked by a ferocious Bulldog. A man saved the woman in distress by killing the dog. The woman thanked the man and said, "The headlines in the newspapers tomorrow shall be; Brave New Yorker saves the life of a woman. "The man replied, " I not a New Yorker". OK said the woman "The headlines shall be; Brave American saves the life of a woman". "I am not an American either" said the man. "I am a Pakistani". The headlines of the next day were "Fundamentalist Pakistani kills innocent American dog". -MAJ (Retd) FATEH ALAM, Lahore, June 11

Bismillah,

  I just saw this!  Poignant!

Salaamu Alaykum

Assalaamu alaikum :ZamanH

Do you dislike women, brother, I noticed your signature:

An enemy of an enemy is a fickle friend.
There will be more women in hell than men.
..for persecution is worse than the slaughter of the enemy..(Quran 2:191)
Heaven lies under mother's feet

Quran 2:191 reads as:2:191 And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

Is this a hindi concept, more women than men in Hell? I know that a lot of the old traditions treat women as chattel in India?

Also, is it wise to quote a quranic verse with this other "shirk appearing" phrases?

Just curious.

"The West & the East are neither wholly good nor wholly bad."

A most abused apology for all the death and destruction "west" showers on "chidren of a lesser God" - the Lebanese Prime Minister's words, not mine!

My friend, first of all, I must say, you have one of the most unusual and poetic screen names. I am lost right now, not too sure if its Sanskirit or Bangla?

You are absolutely right about mans' utter helpless state. One day, soon, we will change the economic system that renders us powerless. All indicators are for a system change. We won't ever find peace on our planet without Alternative Financial Therapy.

I like to show all sides of an issue.  The US made an especially sincere effort to honor all those from other countries who were victims of the 911 attack on the World Trade Center.  How can we ever expect to have peace when any and all efforts are constantly sabotaged by posts which tell only half truths?  I am totally for peace for all people on earth.  Not just for Americans, Brits, The West....but for ALL people.  Sometimes when it seems there is a little progress being made, I read articles which stir the pot once again....it seems to make sure we don't ever reach any agreements or learn to love one another.  It makes me physically sick anymore.  Why do we do this to each other???  Don't we all really want peace?  Or is it just a joke, and we "play" at saying we want peace while having our fingers crossed behind our backs?  Here is the article about Salman Hamdani, and others from foreign lands, from the State Department. 

http://usinfo.state.gov/albums/911/ham1.htm - http://usinfo.state.gov/albums/911/ham1.htm

Hanan posted:

"I would like to ask you a question, Patty. Don�t you feel in your heart that there will never be world peace until all of humanity has accepted Christ as their saviour?"

No.  That is definitely not my belief.  Nor is it the belief of the Catholic Church. 

I have taken all the abuse from you that I intend to take.  I have done absolutely nothing to you.  The article I posted was given to me by a Muslim.  Sorry you didn't care for it. 

MODERATORS, WHY IS THIS WOMAN PERMITTED TO CONSTANTLY INSULT, RIDUCULE, AND SAY EXTREMELY RUDE THINGS ABOUT ME?  I AM IN TOTAL DISBELIEF THAT YOU PERMIT THIS ON YOUR SITE.  DO YOU WANT NON-MUSLIMS HERE, OR WOULD YOU PREFER WE LEAVE?  I HAVE DONE NOTHING TO ANY OF YOU.  I DO NOT CALL YOU NAMES, I AGREE THAT WAR IS WRONG AND AMERICAN TROOPS SHOULD NOT BE IN THE ME, BUT NO MATTER WHAT I SAY I AM REPEATEDLY AND CONSTANTLY BELITTLED BY HANAN.  I ASK YOU ONE TIME, WHY DO YOU ALLOW THIS?

I AM REPEATEDLY AND CONSTANTLY BELITTLED BY HANAN. 

Patty, just you watch how I deal with her!

Hand me something (really, anything, even smaller than a cummin seed, will do) to hold her in contempt against you.

You know, Pathaans love jumping on anyone, just anytime of the day, but we always need solids reasons for taking anyone to task. We are trying, but we haven't yet learnt the pre-emption technology being supplied to the world by its "American saviours".

Just anything, even smaller than a cummin seed, please!

Patty, I have taken my coffee break to read your and Hanan's posts, over two fags instead my usual ration of one.

This Hanan character seems to come out with a heart of gold and a caramel tongue, in a scenario when you are trying to peddle an aticle from our Condi Rice's very own spin machine? I am not going to comment on your behaviour, I know, you take some very serious medication and, as a gentleman, I would give the benefit of my doubt to the effect of those pills.

But I was really ready to take her to task, just that you or your posts didn't support me.

Actually, Whisper, the article I posted was given to me by a Muslim, candid....I didn't even know of a connection between it and C. Rice.  Candid felt it was an important article.  I have no idea in the world what "medication" you are talking about.  I have kidney failure, so I do take meds for that illness...is that wrong too?  Sorry for "peddling" the wrong article...again.

I believe I have seen and learned all I need from Islam.  Peace to all here who have been kind and understanding.  I don't deserve the treatment I have been given.  My words were never meant to be insulting, and you know that.  But those of you who dislike me for whatever reason(s) have accomplished your goal.  Herjihad, I really hope you can live with youself.  YOU  and I KNOW that you contacted me by email and told me many personal problems you were having.  I even told you I wished I could help you with money for gasoline.  Remember that??  We discussed many important issues which you had, and now you stab me in the back.  Allah DOES KNOW.  He knows the truth.  My conscience is clear.  How is your's?  Also, you must have a close tie to a moderator, as all the PMs you've sent me have mysteriously disappeared....but I DO have the emails you sent to me. As a lady, I will not be so rude as to expose them publically. 

God grant you all wisdom and kindness.

Duende:  Look at Patty's joining date.  Why would a Roman Catholic come anywhere near this site on that date, let alone join it so as to exchange ideas?  Please, I think you are being too harsh.  After so many years of turmoil and intercontinental pain and misjudging, Patty is still here, she has stayed when she could so easily have transferred her allegiance (and subsequuently her heartfelt friends) to a different Forum.  We tend to forget that: that tenacity in search of other perspectives.  We also, (especially those of us in Europe), tend to forget how indoctrinated and strong is that mindset.  (Patty forgive me.  Move away from the U.S. and you will begin to understahd what I am saying here.)  Don't let Patty's search down now, and of you, especially now, when perhaps it is most severely challenged.

You all posted, now put your support into action.

C

There are so many discussion forums in the net and many of the members are the kind of "throw and dissappeared" posters. The forums are kept alive by the regular members who have developed friendly attachement with other members, be it the pros and the cons.

I did make a proposal not to ban a member or members who breach the guide lines but it should be enough with suspension. I proposed that for reason.

The posters are not the topic. If Patty is here to convert us the muslims - than she has failed.

She is an american therefore it is natural if she is defending america. It is an impossible task to be neutral completely. Concentrate on the posting is the best thing to do.

You saw it that it only take one posting to make Daniel Dowsky intent to leave, or maybe he left already. He is very neutral poster but we are insensitive toward sensitive people, for what?

So it is up to you though.

My friend, first of all, I must say, you have one of the most unusual and poetic screen names. I am lost right now, not too sure if its Sanskirit or Bangla?

Hanan, you have no idea what you are talking about, You don't even know Patty!!  

You been here for 3 weeks and you can profess to KNOW Patty, please!

Your post is so misjudged. Blackmailer, you call Patty a blackmailer - wow   for saying that she will NOT make emails public, wow. You have really lost it.

Your post speaks so much hate than Patty has even done. I tell you what Patty hate is those muslims terrorist who make this world an unsafe place, yes you can start up with that the biggest terrorist is Bush/america but it is not going to change the fact that alot of terrorist are muslim they profess to be, (oh yes you can start up with that they are not muslims blah blah, I have heard it over and over the years, but you don't even care also that you own people are doing killings and oppression of muslims! Patty doesn't hate muslims! for god's sake she has them as friends where she lives for goodness sake! And it really troubles her when she comes here that she does not get the same treatment that of kindness,peace and understand and tolerance THAT MUSLIMS PROFESS TO BE, No all you can do, as well as Herijad and now Duende show and give the opposite, you have no clue what respect is especial of those who are different and with different views and opinons. 

Patty has done nothing in recents days but try and understand why you guys have been so horrible to her, she has tried to set the record straight but every time she tries, you end up putting her down adn you don't listen to her!

You blame her for things that are not her fault, she maybe an american but doesn't always agree with the government. You blame her for things that the government does, how does that help or help with tolerance of another people?

You think Patty hates muslims, you should re-read your post again about america! I can see very clearly that there is so much hate here for amercia AND americans even if you don't say it and despite what you guys say that you don't hate americans your posts speaks it. ALL posts are negative! how is it that suppose to try and get tolerance and respect?? YOU want respect, then show it, STOP telling others to give it to you, it does not work that way. 

I don't live in america and of course I dislike somethings but I am no way like you guys are, you have so much contempt I think you have lost your vision and islamic vision. WHat is happen of late is the worst I have seen it, I have been here for nearly 5 years and honestly the ignorance that is happening is running high, thru the roof. 

I think my islamic teachings that I have learnt has gone out the window!

Of all my years here Hanan, your post is the most vilest post about a member. I am shocked and disgusted.

Your attitude, along with Herjihad (who I actually liked and had respect for) and Duende now, is the worst I have encountered here!

It is very sad.

It amazes me that some people can have this attitude, and I wonder if they were face to face with the other person and said exactly the same thing? I wonder if the courage would be there? but since being behind a screen and no one see you, I think some people find it easier to attack than they would face to face! sad!

Assalamu alaikum,

I also agree with what Hanan has said.  Finally the Muslims are not mincing words in order to please the others.........it isn't a matter of manners nor of civility, it is our lives that are spinning out of all reason - time to put both feet on the ground.

Peace, ummziba.

Duende wrote: What's the official term for Patty's behaviour? Is it passive/ aggressive?

yeah and hanan's behaviour is agressive/aggressive.

Cassandra, you're too nice. But it's not up to me to put a stop to Patty's search. She declared she had seen and heard enough about Islam, and I think that is a terrible shame. I agree with Hanan's assessment: she came here with a mind set she was/is unnable to alter, and no amount of professed love for fellow man can overcome an innability to alter one's 'internal narrative'.

yes it is a terrible shame and the muslim community (some) has itself to blame for the attitude of non-muslims.

If Patty had a mind set in the beginning she would not have been here for 5 years, she would have continued being here and keep learning and interacting with muslims but the excessive personal insults thrown has made it impossible.

yes a terrible shame  

Angel, I think the degree of passions we're witnessing here on the forum is just a reflection of the state of things world wide: coming to a head, is the expression. We are in the process, as we say in Spain, of removing our masks.

Is that what you call it?.

Believe me, after witnessing many outburst like this, its got nothing to do with the state of the world.