Anatolian wrote: Muslims believe both are same. In a Christian perspective I see quite a bit of difference concerning the message of both God (Judeo-Christian) and Islam's Allah. Thoughts anyone?

First off clarify your critique on God and Allah besides stating that there is a difference. What difference are you referring? The words themselves or the idea of both? The attrbutes?

In the Name Of the Creator the Most Gracious the Most Merciful.

Peace, Blessings and Mercy of the Creator of all that exist be with you.

There is a Being whom there is none co-equal to Him, He alone Created all that exist the earth and the heavens and all that dwell in them. He has been sending Messengers and Prophets ever since the Creation of Humankind His common name which no one will doubt is "The Creator of all that Exist" The Originator.

Each one of you recognize Him as Your Creator and you call Him my Creator in your own languages.

No matter what you call Him you are saying The Creator, the Originator.

So don't waste your time saying my word is Him and your word is not Him. You are all referring to the Creator of all that exist, so wake-up Think Deeply and Start a Good Fresh Relationship with Him and do what He loves the most which are Truth, Honest, Sincerity, Patience, Learning, Teaching and Deep Thinking then Obeying Him.

Do not waste your time writing, reading and thinking about something that does not benefit you.

Remember Your Creator and Build a Good Fresh Relationship with Him and ask  for Guidance.

Learn about His Messengers and Prophets and Read His Speech to you the Recitation (The Quran) ask your Creator to make you the Follower of His Last Messenger Mohammed Peace and Blessings of Him be with him.

May the Creator of All that exist your Creator and my Creator Guide us all to the Straight Path ameen.

Peace, Blessings, and Mercy of the Creator be with you.

Anatolian wrote: Muslims believe both are same. In a Christian perspective I see quite a bit of difference concerning the message of both God (Judeo-Christian) and Islam's Allah. Thoughts anyone?

"muslims believe both are same" that is because it is the same. Allah is arabic for God. Funny how some people forget about the arab christians

Do you mean the differences in commands make some Christian and Jewish people avoid following Islam?

Assume there was NO difference in ANY command between Islam and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism" title="Judaism - - Judaism or Christianity not Islam. On the other hand, if there is no difference between http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism" title="Judaism -  This means exactly the same. They say there should be NO difference. But this is God who says there should be difference or not.

However, I think the basics are indeed the same. I see consensus in all prophets. The first and most important basic of all is to believe in God, who is unseen and who is one and only one. The basic is to follow what God like and worship him. The basic is to believe in unseen. I believe that all 124000 prophets including Adam, Nooh, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and the last one, Mohammad (sawa), are from one and only one God and all of them have performed their mission.  

I believe that all 124000 prophets including Adam, Nooh, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and the last one, Mohammad (sawa), are from one and only one God and all of them have performed their mission

If Allah looked after the people on earth since the beginning of time(ie 124000 prophets) then why does He not feel it neceesary for us to have a prophet now? I am muslim, and have every belief on the Prophet Muhammad and the Qur'an, but on the basis of history, it looks like Allah is denying us someone who can lead and guide us in these days.

Angela,

I thought you would pick up on my comment And I know you understand my thoughts on this. I know others wouldnt understand.

I wonder what other responses will come from muslims on my question.

But you know Angela, old habits die hard. You would call me a lost soul I think

It is a beautiful question. In my belief, Allah is looking after us everywhere and every time. Allah has been always looking after us and will be so. But it does not mean that there must be another prophet-like mission or a new religion, and nobody exists to guide us. I will explain soon ...

martha wrote: I believe that all 124000 prophets including Adam, Nooh, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and the last one, Mohammad (sawa), are from one and only one God and all of them have performed their mission If Allah looked after the people on earth since the beginning of time(ie 124000 prophets) then why does He not feel it neceesary for us to have a prophet now? I am muslim, and have every belief on the Prophet Muhammad and the Qur'an, but on the basis of history, it looks like Allah is denying us someone who can lead and guide us in these days.

Sis Martha, we had a great scholar from India. Sulaiman Nadwi, who had studied the life history of our Prophet and had written many books of seerah. Anyways, here are his words that shall answer your question. Its an extract from his book , Muhammad - The Ideal Prophet.

"Every Prophet of Allah came to this world as a witness, or aharbinger of good tidings, or as a warner, or as a summonner, but never in the past there came a prophet who combined all these qualities. There were witnesses to Allah's majesty and, overlordship, like Jacob, Issac and Ishmael. Others like Abraham and Jesus were the heralds of glad tidings. There were also warners like Noah, Hud, and Shu'yeb, the main point of their warnings was terrible punishment awating the evil-doers. Then, there were the prophets like Joseph and Jonah whose teachings set the tone for those who summon to divine guidance. But the messenger par excellence who had all these marks of prophethood - a witness as well as a welcomer, a warner as well as a caller and who was a distinguished Apostle in every aspect was none other than Prophet  Muhammad (pbuh). He was sent to be sent to the world as the last Prophet, the final one, after whom no other messenger was to be sent again by Allah.

This is the reason why he was granted a shari'ah or the law that was perfect and final requiring no revision in the days to come.

For the teaching of the last Prophet were to be everbinding, to remain unchanged to the end of time, he was sent as a acme of perfection with over-flowing guidance and resplendent light. This is an indisputable fact attested by history."

martha wrote:  it looks like Allah is denying us someone who can lead and guide us in these days.

Remeber sister-

That everything Allah(swt) does is for a reason. We may not know or understand the reason 'why', but Allah as a perfect God does everything right. Remain strong in faith. Also consider the reasons why the Prophet Mohammed (p.b.u.h) was the last prophet. His sunnah allowed for us to have great imams throughout the world. While their will never be a messenger as great as Mohammed (p.b.u.h) in this modern world, we are still very blessed f0r the scholars, imams we do have.

Anatolian wrote: Angel, you are correct Arab Christians use the name Allah for God. But what I meant to ask here is not the difference in name but the difference in commands given to Muhammed from Gabriel, who was sent according to Muhammed by Allah, the Allah of the Christians and Jews. But Christians and Jews do not follow this later version of The Creator, in which Islam is based on solely. The difference in teachings and commands when you compare Judeo-Christian basics and Islam is wide yet there are obvious similarities which accounts for the Jewish and Christian presence and influence in Arabia prior to the Islamic movement of the 7th century.

I understand.

All 3 religions are different in their view of God. Everyone has there own view of God. My view or what I percieve for me about God is different to. But I seem to be on the side that we all believe in the same one God, I could be wrong in the end or that there are many Gods, but then I think it comes down to personal belief. I can say this and that about God, and the next person can to the same with different view, and so can islam, christianity and Judaism.

I don't believe there is any way of knowing if there is one or many Gods (Godess/Godesses) I know islam, christianity, Judaism believes that there is only one God. I know I believe in one God, but there could be more gods for all i know, whether its a pathoen or some other way. Again I think it comes down to personal belief as to how one believes. I certainly don't believe God as he/she/it is percieved in the 3 religions, am I believing in another God? could be the question, the same as you are asking about islam and christianity's perception of God  

Despite the differences in views, the joint in both religions cames down to Abraham's son Ismail, and the Archangel Gabriel who came to Muhammed, is also in Christianity and Judaism. I think because of that there is the view of, the same one God. If there was a completely different Angel that is not on the list of angels (which by the way everyone uses whether they are in one of the 3 religions or not) then maybe there would be a bit of discrepancy.

First of all, it is a fact that we live in the same planet, stand on the same earth, breathe the same air, drink the same water - a gift from whom? A gift from Our Creator. There could not have been more than One Creator who created the whole universe, hell and heaven and every tiny atoms in this universe. Agreed?

Prophet Muhammad (saw) was the final Messenger of Allah to humanity, and therefore the Qur'an is the last Message which Allah (swt) has sent to us. Its predecessors such as the Torah, Psalms, and Gospels have all been superseded. It is an obligation - and blessing - for all who hear of the Qur'an and Islam to investigate it and evaluate it for themselves. Allah (swt) has guaranteed that He will protect the Qur'an from human tampering, and today's readers can find exact copies of it all over the world. The Qur'an of today is the same as the Qur'an revealed to Muhammad (saw) 1400 years ago.

He is Allah AlKhaliq - The Creator, He is Allah Al-Awwal - The Begining, He is Allah Al-Akhir - The Last.

Nur_Ilahi wrote: First of all, it is a fact that we live in the same planet, stand on the same earth, breathe the same air, drink the same water - a gift from whom? A gift from Our Creator. There could not have been more than One Creator who created the whole universe, hell and heaven and every tiny atoms in this universe. Agreed?

Actually, No agreement  apart from living on the same planet and sharing its resources  

The question is about God in both Islam and Christianity whether its the same God or another God because when you do compare there is different preceptions.

Nur, my personal belief in God, in what I think God to be is different to your view or islam's and christianity. But am I believing in the same God as you or am I believing in another God since I'm not viewing it as you are? that's the question.   

p.s: something tells me this should have gone into interfaith section

It should have......

When we find Allah looking after us since the beginning of the history of human being, we can conclude two important messages:

1. Muhammad (sawa) is not single without history and direction. Rather when we look at the history, there is a curve showing a DIRECTION.

2. In the history of human being, this MOTION is started by Adam but not ended by Mohammad (sawa). It is continuously going on.

 I have to draw your attention to a vitally important point: when Allah says there won�t be another prophet after Mohammad (sawa), this means there won�t be another religion, but it doesn�t mean that MOTION of guidance is stopped and there is no body to guide us. This means

1. Mohammad (sawa) delivered what Allah wanted him to deliver.

2. With what we have been delivered, we can grow towards completeness.

Therefore, I believe that even after the last religion, there should be a pure compete Human at each time for all people around the world who is created by Allah and introduced by his last prophet, who is the teacher of Quran and whose religion is the last religion. This human is alive and present every time to continue the motion of guidance. Now the question is if Mohammad (sawa) has really introduced such a human?

To answer that question, let me come back to history. In the last Haj pilgrimage by Mohammad (sawa), about 120000 people accompanied him. After the pilgrimage, Muhammad (sawa) made a speech saying that would be his last pilgrimage and Allah told him by Gebrail to deliver what he want. He then introduced Ali (as) and placed a great emphasis on this fact that Ali is selected by Allah and is that human to guide people. He then introduced 11 people of Mohammad�s daughter (sa) and Ali�s generation saying that they will come and will be pure as well and will guide people.

Those who didn�t want this to happen started to kill Ali and those generation of him one by one, after Mohammad (sawa) and during the history. The twelfth one was born about 250 years after Mohammad (sawa) but Allah made him unseen to keep him away from danger till the specific day in future. He is alive now, people see him but do not know him. His name is Mahdi (the guider one). To guide people he is alive and present. 

Allah made him unseen to keep him away from danger till the specific day in future. His is alive now, people see him but do not know him. His name is Mahdi (the guided one). To guide people he is alive and present. 

This is interesting. And if he is alive now is a very old man then. Or does he not age?

In Christianity, John, one of the 12 disciples did not die, but was allowed to remain on the earth as a ministering servant until the time of Jesus's 2nd coming. See John 20-23  Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die.

Is this the same for the mahdi you speak of? And when will he be allowed to make himself known? And how does he guide people if they dont know him?

And if he is alive now is a very old man then. Or does he not age?

His age is more than 1000 years. But, he can be even a young man. You know the story of Kahf in Quran. "People of the Cave" were young men who slept in a cave and Allah kept them in that form for about 300 years. When Allah woke them up, they were unchanged so that they thought they had slept for a day or half a day...

Mr Barzakh Fitrath Ullah : ALLAH is one and only
ALLAH is alone and lonely
ALLAH is every not many
ALLAH is all not any
ALLAH is entire the unequal
ALLAH is whole not dual
Therefore say ALLAH is ALLAH
La illa ha illel la
MUHAMMAD-UR RASUL ALLAH

from SWEETSWORDS 18 [ Compass ]

martha wrote: In Christianity, John, one of the 12 disciples did not die, but was allowed to remain on the earth as a ministering servant until the time of Jesus's 2nd coming. See John 20-23  Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die.

But martha, you only quoted half of John 21:23.  John goes on to point out the obvious:

Therefore this saying went out among the brethren that that disciple would not die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but only, �If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?�

Ron,

Yes you are absolutely right. Thanks for pointing it out.

However, what is your belief about John. Did he not die?  Angela's reply was good, and as such one I would agree with, having once been LDS. I dont know how other Christians feel about John.

Is this the same for the mahdi you speak of? And when will he be allowed to make himself known?

I didn�t know about John and it was interesting for me. I see some similar aspects. I should say no body knows the time Mahdi (as) will be appeared. Ali (as) and the other 11 leaders have told people if anyone at anytime claims that he or she knows when Mahdi appears, they are telling a lie for sure. It can be a few seconds later, days later or many years later. His first appearance would be beside Kaaba in Mecca, and the day of his appearance will not be Ghiaamah (the last day) ...

And how does he guide people if they dont know him?

He guides people in many different ways. Remember that a visual contact is not necessary for guidance in any way, even though it can happen. There are many things to say, but in this post I would like to write one of the answers given by the sixth leader of twelve who was called Imam Saadegh (as) (Saadegh means one who always says the truth). Imam Saadegh (as) was asked how people benefit from Mahdi (as) when they do not see or know him. He answered that "it would be similar to the benefit of sun on a cloudy day when the sun is behind the clouds". One may try to imagine how would it be without the sun even on a cloudy day...

martha wrote: However, what is your belief about John. Did he not die?

Of course he died.  No mortal can live 2000 years.  I am astonished that alleged monotheists are so ready to attribute superhuman powers to their holy men.

rami wrote: Are you limiting what god can or cant do.

I don't think ron is, but my 2 cents worth is that God did create us and there's only a few of us that can get to 120 yrs let alone live for 1000 or 2000 years  

anyway what happened to the topic about God and Allah in islam and Christianity ?

rami wrote: The opposite of that argument ron is that God cant give such a thing to a mortal man.

God could make a mortal man into another god too, but monotheists must believe that He did not.  At the very least, such an extraordinary event as conferring god-like powers on a man (or woman, e.g., the virgin birth of Christ) ought to warrant some specific mention in the Bible, and should not have to be inferred.

Ron Webb wrote: rami wrote: The opposite of that argument ron is that God cant give such a thing to a mortal man. God could make a mortal man into another god too, but monotheists must believe that He did not.  At the very least, such an extraordinary event as conferring god-like powers on a man (or woman, e.g., the virgin birth of Christ) ought to warrant some specific mention in the Bible, and should not have to be inferred.

hello ron you did not came by so i am here

tell me ron who was the god who wrestle with job

poga wrote: tell me ron who was the god who wrestle with job

I think you mean Jacob, and Genesis says that he was a man, not a god.

myahya wrote: Ron, A monotheist never believes that a mortal is another God and can be another God. Otherwise, I would not call him or her a monotheist. But, do you really believe if a mortal lives for more than what you think is ordinary, then that mortal would be another God? Then I would say how small your God is ... !

Well, it's a matter of semantics, isn't it?  Polytheistic religions usually ascribe different powers to their various gods, the Greeks had their demigods and their heroes and so on.  Where you draw the line between gods and humans is a matter of definition.  It just seems to me that immortality (or virtual immortality) is a pretty big one in the list of defining characteristics of a god.  That's why we contrast gods with "mortals".

rami wrote: Scientifically speaking all it would mean is that your cell regeneration stays at the same rate and does not decay, nothing Godly about that just something God decided to do for someone.

It seems to me that we're talking about a full-blown miracle, not just something that "God decided to do for someone".  As I said, surely it would be a noteworthy event, not something left to be deduced from ambiguous and conflicting information.  I would rather believe, as Saint John said, that reports of his immortality were just rumours, not factual.

i should rather state its not Godly to be immortal as every one of us will be given this gift in the next life, will we be gods at that point in time?

Well, we won't be "mortals" anymore.

It just seems to me that immortality (or virtual immortality) is a pretty big one in the list of defining characteristics of a god. 

Immortality is intrinsically one of the characteristics of Allah.

It seems to me that we're talking about a full-blown miracle, not just something that "God decided to do for someone". 

Prophets have shown full-blown miracles. Allah decided to do for them. None of them performed those miracles inherently.

myahya wrote: Prophets have shown full-blown miracles. Allah decided to do for them. None of them performed those miracles inherently.

Yes of course, but my point is that miracles are extremely unusual events which would not go unnoticed or unreported.

rami wrote: I am not arguing for or against this particular case but rather if God has the ability to do it without us considering them a God.

Yes, God has the ability to do it.  Whether that makes them "gods" depends on your definition, of course.  I would say no, immortality by itself is insufficient; but I wouldn't call them "mortals" either.  They are somewhere in between.

After all, about the mortality or immortality in this period of our life (before the last day, Qiamah) Quran has clearly stated that �All individuals taste death�. Even Mahdi (as), whom I earlier spoke of, would die before Qiaamah and it is also reported by the last prophet and 12 leaders.

Yes of course, but my point is that miracles are extremely unusual events which would not go unnoticed or unreported.

Ron Webb wrote: poga wrote: tell me ron who was the god who wrestle with job I think you mean Jacob, and Genesis says that he was a man, not a god.

thank you ron i made mistake with job and jacob

but my question still remain who was this god with whome jocob fought 

you say he was men but bible say's he god

In Genesis 32:24-32, we read about how the child of the promise, Jacob, wrestled and fought against God. Jacob fought against God Himself, and he got seriously hurt by God because He wrestled against Him, Jacob got so hurt after wrestling with God he walked with a limp for the rest of his life. The limp would have been a reminder of the suffering he had to endure in order to see the face of God

poga wrote: you say he was men but bible say's he god In Genesis 32:24-32, we read about how the child of the promise, Jacob, wrestled and fought against God.

The Book of Genesis clearly and repeatedly calls him a man.  Jacob seems to think he was God, but Jacob must have been mistaken.  Here is the New International translation, but it's similar in King James or any other version I've seen:

24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob's hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26 Then the man said, "Let me go, for it is daybreak."       But Jacob replied, "I will not let you go unless you bless me." 27 The man asked him, "What is your name?"       "Jacob," he answered. 28 Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome." 29 Jacob said, "Please tell me your name."       But he replied, "Why do you ask my name?" Then he blessed him there. 30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."

You'll note that the Bible says that the man could not overpower Jacob.  How then could he have been God?

Ron Webb wrote: poga wrote: you say he was men but bible say's he god In Genesis 32:24-32, we read about how the child of the promise, Jacob, wrestled and fought against God. The Book of Genesis clearly and repeatedly calls him a man.  Jacob seems to think he was God, but Jacob must have been mistaken.  Here is the New International translation, but it's similar in King James or any other version I've seen: 24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. 25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob's hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man. 26 Then the man said, "Let me go, for it is daybreak."       But Jacob replied, "I will not let you go unless you bless me." 27 The man asked him, "What is your name?"       "Jacob," he answered. 28 Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome." 29 Jacob said, "Please tell me your name."       But he replied, "Why do you ask my name?" Then he blessed him there. 30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared." You'll note that the Bible says that the man could not overpower Jacob.  How then could he have been God?

18:1- 5,9-14

21:1-3

[1] And the LORD visited Sarah as he had said, and the LORD did unto Sarah as he had spoken.

[2] For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him.

[3] And Abraham called the name of his son that was born unto him, whom Sarah bare to him, Isaac

poga wrote: who is malchezadek

I give up.  Who was he?

who is this god who is doing what he is doing to sarah

There is only one God, poga.  What's your point?

rami wrote: You are not more dignified than every single prophet he sent or every single angel he created or Jesus himself and his mother marry.

The meaning of a behaviour is determined by the social context.  Fourteen centuries ago in the Middle East, grovelling may have been a sign of respect.  Today, where I live at least, it is considered demeaning both to the grovellee and the groveller.

rami wrote: Does religion itself change because society changes or is religion the litmus test by which we measure how twisted society has become, i think your socially conscious answer is clear enough.

Religion itself need not change, but religious practice certainly does.

will society again change when jesus returns or will they dare insult him and accuse him of groveling?

If Jesus were to return today in my own community, I'm convinced he would bathe daily, brush his teeth regularly, wear appropriate clothing, speak the language and adopt the customs (within reason) of contemporary society.  I bet he'd be clean-shaven too, because a beard would make it harder to win public trust.  I don't think he'd be doing much grovelling.

If he looked and behaved (and smelled!) as he did two millennia ago, he'd probably be mistaken for a homeless person, or maybe an escaped mental patient.  Not a good image for someone delivering an important message to mankind.

Why dont we get back to the subject which is the underlaying belief in your post that you will accept a being as God if he simply displays some form of Godly powers.

Well, I'm not sure I said that exactly, but I'd be interested to know how you would define a (small g) god, without reference to godly powers.

I am pushed on time but I wanted to point on several things that interest me. My posts will be in bold.

Angela said: The nature of God is such that anything is possible to him.

This is somewhat true and not true. The above statement is problematic because if we say that the nature of God is such that God can actualize (make it true) then we can run into problems. There are rules in which philosophically speaking, God CANNOT do such as self-annihilation. Can infinity self-annihilate itself? In the eyes of physics and logic, hardly. If we were to suspect that God has established some sort of spiritual rule then it would be logical to pressupose that God has self-limiting qualities ergo, decides to not annihilate itself. Of course religionist would find such things as a ridiculous notion however certain statements can be made problematic. I choose not to say God can do "anything" just "anything that is logical." It is not logical for an infinitely wise being to suddenly desire to go into non-existence.

Ron Webb said: Religion itself need not change, but religious practice certainly does.

This statement is nonsensical. Where do you think religious practices derive from? If I am told to prostrate where do you think this command comes from? But if we are discussing specificities then you need to specify which religious practices you are talking about.

Ron Webb:

rami wrote: Religion itself need not change, but religious practice certainly does. So mans social pressures are above Gods doctrine?

By "religion itself" I meant God's doctrine.  God demands our respect and our faith, but as far as I know He did not stipulate that we express it by prostrating ourselves.  God wants us to be clean, but as far as I know He did not stipulate the use of soap, deodorant or toothbrushes.

you seem to have a Hollywood understanding of History? John the Baptist was baptizing people in water not mud, The jews of the time used to take ritual baths to purify themselves of impurity and sin they believed similar to how we believe that water washes away sins from the physical body.

Right. How often do you suppose Jesus and his contemporaries bathed, ritually or otherwise?

trust earned by deceptive means is beneath a prophet, if there is spiritual good in having a beard [something which may be beyond your perception] then he will have a beard in order to show there is good in it. God created man with facial hair looking neat does not necessarily entail not having abeard.

There's nothing deceptive about shaving, rami, and IMHO there's little point in being a prophet if no one believes you.  Having a beard does not make you a better person, and if it did, that would have been mentioned in the Quran.  Allah tells us He left nothing out.

but I'd be interested to know how you would define a (small g) god, without reference to godly powers. There is no such thing as a small god, There is only One God.

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.  Let me put it this way: the Quran (4.36) says "worship God [alone], and do not ascribe divinity, in any way, to aught beside Him."  What do you think "ascribing divinity" means?  Does it not mean attributing godly powers to someone other than Allah?

Israfil wrote: Ron Webb said: Religion itself need not change, but religious practice certainly does. This statement is nonsensical. Where do you think religious practices derive from? If I am told to prostrate where do you think this command comes from?

Well, you tell me.  Were you told to prostrate by Allah, either directly or in the Quran?  Or were you told by a man?

If Jesus were to return today in my own community, I'm convinced he would bathe daily, brush his teeth regularly, wear appropriate clothing, speak the language and adopt the customs (within reason) of contemporary society.  I bet he'd be clean-shaven too, because a beard would make it harder to win public trust.  I don't think he'd be doing much grovelling. This is assumption. I would imagine ancient prophets having a divine aura around them that would create an influence upon thse within their perimeter.

Yes, we're both making assumptions.  Maybe Jesus would be exactly the same today as he was two thousand years ago.  Maybe he'd even speak Aramaic.  But if he did, he wouldn't be a very effective prophet, would he?

If he looked and behaved (and smelled!) as he did two millennia ago, he'd probably be mistaken for a homeless person, or maybe an escaped mental patient.  Not a good image for someone delivering an important message to mankind. This is again absurd now you are assuming Jesus was not a  hygenic person.

Jesus followed the hygienic practices of his times, but times have changed.  And that's a good thing, in my opinion. Better hygiene is the main reason people live twice as long as they used to.

Following aspects are important I think:

1) IN APPEARANCE, prophets usually used to live like other people in the society they were living.  It is written in the history of Islam that a new person, who had not already known the prophet, could not realize by appearance who is Muhammad (sawa) in a group of people for the first time.

2) Most of the prophets were not like socially-defined wealthy powerful people like Kings or wealthiest people where they were living in. Thus, they were usually not powerful and wealthy IN APPEARANCE but rather powerful and wealthy IN SPIRIT, HUMAN BEHAVIOR, WISEDEM and so on.

And this is what Allah liked them to be which has its own reasons.

Ron Webb said:

Jesus followed the hygienic practices of his times

How do you know?

Ron Webb said: Yes, we're both making assumptions.  Maybe Jesus would be exactly the same today as he was two thousand years ago.  Maybe he'd even speak Aramaic.  But if he did, he wouldn't be a very effective prophet, would he?

Yes but there is a line that is drawn where opinions can become absurb. Again in the latter portion of your assumption you assume Jesus will primarily commuicate in one language. Any person of divine providence I would imagine would be given the ability by God to communicate to all peoples in all languages otherwise how effective is God's communication (through prophets) to humans if his prophets can only speak one language?

Ron Webb: Well, you tell me.  Were you told to prostrate by Allah, either directly or in the Quran?  Or were you told by a man?

Israfil wrote: Jesus followed the hygienic practices of his times How do you know?

I don't of course, but it's a safe assumption.  Certainly no one at that time could have come close to our standards.  They simply didn't have the technology.

Yes but there is a line that is drawn where opinions can become absurb. Again in the latter portion of your assumption you assume Jesus will primarily commuicate in one language. Any person of divine providence I would imagine would be given the ability by God to communicate to all peoples in all languages otherwise how effective is God's communication (through prophets) to humans if his prophets can only speak one language?

Ron Webb wrote: poga wrote: who is malchezadek I give up.  Who was he? who is this god who is doing what he is doing to sarah There is only one God, poga.  What's your point?

yes indeed there is only one ALLAH and Jesus is the Prophet of ALLAH

do you believe this

if not then tell clearly what you believe in

Angela wrote: I think language is something of a non sequitur when it comes to the Creator.  His communication is more powerful than mortal language.  Language evolves and changes.

I agree, and that brings me back to my point.  I really don't think God cares what language, or what body language, a person uses to express their beliefs.  The important thing is that it is sincere and meaningful to the person him/herself.  God will understand regardless.  That's how I see it anyway.

Angela wrote: Your right, although I see the wisdom in preserving the Quran in its original form, I do not think prayer and supplications need to be in Arabic.  Personally, I think that's the arrogance of the people, not a part of the religion.  Its no different than the Roman Church demanding scriptures and mass be in Latin.

our AZAAN the prayer call will forever be in arabic

our Namaaz will forever be with QURANIC sura therefore forever in arabic

our DUA is in the language of our heart and god understand the heart of stone

our Prophet said for reciting each letter of QURAN we will get 10 SAWAB

and that's in ALIF LAM MIM not a l m

..................................................

MARK OF YOUR IGNORANCE IS THE COMMENT YOU MAKE

MARK OF YOUR IGNORANCE IS WHEN YOU REJECT THE TRUTH AND ACCEPT THE FAKE...Poga Humayun Dundiwala

poga wrote: our Prophet said for reciting each letter of QURAN we will get 10 SAWAB

Oh, but that can't be right -- ten is not part of the Fibonacci sequence!

poga wrote: if ALLAH does not care about language than why every GALAXY is forming in the SEFIROTH fashion of ARABIC MEEM

Galaxies come in all sorts of shapes, poga, and if you want to know why you need to study astrophysics, not Arabic.  And not the Quran, either.

It's a shame, really.  The Muslim world used to be foremost in the study of astronomy, among many other sciences.  Our understanding of Allah's creation has increased dramatically since then, but unfortunately Dar al-Islam has not kept pace.  The above may be part of the reason for that.

Perhaps we should see the reason why the Quran came down in Arabic. Why the Quran is read by millions all over the world in Arabic. If English is the language of this world, Arabic is the language of The Creator. In fact among all the languages in the world Arabic is the most concise and beautiful language. Any Muslim can join in any mosque all over the world and pray together as one in one Jumaah, or community, in one language that is Arabic. This language is the language of unity for Muslims. Any Muslim can open the Quran in any mosque and read the same surah or chapter in the same language that is Arabic.  The basic prayers in Arabic is so simple that even a new Muslim has got no problem reciting it.

This is a sign of Allah's Love and Mercy. He wants to make things simple for Muslims all over the world. He promised to safeguard The Quran in its original form till the last man on earth. And Alhamdulillah, till now the Quran is intact in its originality without anyone ever had a chance to create a better one than that.

The language of personal prayers is of course understood by God. After all He is the Creator. We are all His creations. He loves each and everyone of us no matter what race or language we are from. He only requires us to accept Him as Himself, a Supreme Being without any partners or associations, without any beginning and no end. Associating Him with another of His creations is an insult to His Majesty.

Perhaps we should question why Quran? Why not the Bible, why not the Torah or other scriptures that He sent before.

Thanks for that message, Nur_Ilahi.  It's an interesting way of looking at it.  What I think you're saying is that Arabic enhances the cohesiveness of the Muslim worldwide community. It does that at great expense, IMHO, by isolating Muslims from the rest of the world; but I suppose you might see that as a good thing too.

Nur_Ilahi wrote: Perhaps we should question why Quran? Why not the Bible, why not the Torah or other scriptures that He sent before.

I'm not sure if this what you meant, but it does raise the question, why didn't Abraham and Jesus and all the others speak Arabic?  The obvious answer to me is that any language will do.  You use whatever language gets the message across.  I'm quite sure that if Mohammad spoke English or Hebrew or whatever, the Quran would have been revealed to him in that language.  There's nothing magical about Arabic.

 Nur_Ilahi : 'If English is the language of this world, Arabic is the language of The Creator. '

Adam and Eve spoke Adamic. Are you suggesting that they did not speak with God? Are you suggesting that no Old Testament(Bible) prophets and messengers did not speak to God, nor He to them? (The original Old Testament was written mainly in Hebrew, with some Aramaic, while the original New Testament was written in Greek.) Until the event of the tower of babel, all humans spoke one language. Because of their unfaithfulness to God there was a confusion of tongues, hence a good explanation why we have so many languages today. 

The Qur'an was written in Arabic because the Prophet Muhammed spoke Arabic. I am not disputing that Arabic is the language to unite muslims, however I know many can read Arabic, but have no idea what they are reading. So it would seem reasonable to read it translated into your own language. Like the Bible and other scriptures, the Qur'an then is liable to errors during translation, which would explain why it is important if you can to read it in Arabic.

Allah does not only protect muslims in this world. To think otherwise is pure ignorance or naivety. He speaks to His chosen messengers in the language they understand.

To learn the Islamic prayer in Arabic, I would imagine any new muslim would first learn it in their own language. I certainly did. To then learn Arabic is commendable, if possible. But to read the Qu'ran and not know what you are reading is not helpful, if you want to understand Islam.

The world is for everyone, not only muslims.

All languages are from Allah..  there are Messengers who speak a specific language.

i think it comes down to people want to feel "special." It is very common all over the place.   

Hi Ron,

It does that at great expense, IMHO, by isolating Muslims from the rest of the world; but I suppose you might see that as a good thing too.

Not at all. Perhaps, most non-Muslim do not understand that putting Allah first is paramount. In other words our deeds or actions centred is in our religion. Others come second. So if other non-Muslims who thinks that we are isolating ourselves from the outside world, they are wrong. We are only putting what is the utmost importance for us that is Allah.

As we know God the Creator created everything whether good or bad. As He is All Knowing, He chose the best of His creations among languages for humankind that will last till the end of the world. All other prophets excluding Muhammad was sent to their own people, their community whereas Muhammad was sent for the whole of mankind. In Arabic Rahmatan lil alameen. Mercy for the whole world.

There's nothing magical about Arabic. There is indeed something magical about Arabic especially the Quranic Arabic � pure unadultered language. Just by reading the Quran even without knowing the meaning, can give a kind of peacefulness to the soul. Perhaps it is difficult for non-believers to understand this, but this is a fact.

Salam Martha,

We do not know what language Adam and Eve spoke, but for sure, any language that they spoke is understood by God. Always remember, He is the Creator of everything, of course He understands and He knows whether we say it aloud or keep it secret in the deepest of our hearts.

Unlike other scriptures, which had lost its original copy, Quran is still intact. If God The Greatest wanted to preserve the Torah or the Injeel (Bible), He as the Greatest, could have done that, but He had Quran in mind, therefore He let the Torah and the Injeel got lost or corrupted because the LAST Scripture of all will definitely be protected by Him as He had assured Himself. He is afterall Al-Muhaymin - The Protector.

Of course during translation there maybe human errors that is why it is very important to have the original one on hand for anyone to refer anytime. 

Allah does not only protect muslims in this world. To think otherwise is pure ignorance or naivety. He speaks to His chosen messengers in the language they understand.  Of course Allah does not protect only Muslims. He created everything equally for everyone. No matter what race or religion. He created air for us to breathe, water to drink, food to eat, does that not show His Mercy for the whole of mankind? He gives all these for free. He only requested that we do not associate Him with a creation of His. Because that is the sole salvation for the hereafter.

Is that too much to ask for? I do not think so.

Nur_Ilahi wrote: Perhaps, most non-Muslim do not understand that putting Allah first is paramount. In other words our deeds or actions centred is in our religion. Others come second.

To me, people come first.  God is all-powerful.  He does not need my help, or my support, or anything else from me; but there are plenty of people who do.  I am sure that a loving God, if He exists, would feel the same way.

There is indeed something magical about Arabic especially the Quranic Arabic � pure unadultered language. Just by reading the Quran even without knowing the meaning, can give a kind of peacefulness to the soul. Perhaps it is difficult for non-believers to understand this, but this is a fact.

It is a "fact" that is claimed by a great many other religions as well.  Chanting meaningless sounds may indeed induce a trance-like state of consciousness, but there's nothing magical about it.

Angela wrote: Arabic is not God's language.  It was the language of the Prophet he gave the Quran.  Now, That being said.  Arabic is a beautiful language.  Of all the one's I have studied, though, I would not say its the MOST beautiful.  I actually find Japanese the most beautiful and Russian the most passionate. There is no "language" of Heaven.  Its pure arrogance to think any one culture's language is divine. Arabic is a Semitic language, it is a child language that evolved out of more ancient languages.  Its an Afro-Asiatic language whereas most European languages and Indian languages are Indo-European.  I once heard that Arabic is the language of Jannah.  No.  The language of Heaven will be so perfect, no mistakes can be made.  Arabic is still capible of miscommunication or there would not be such division among Muslims. I think the preservation of the Quranic Arabic is an important thing.  Do not get me wrong, that is important.  It allows for translational errors to be corrected as two languages are better connected.  On the other hand, we wait for more discoveries to be able to do this with the Torah and Gospels. But, there is a GIANT difference between understanding the Miracle of the preservation of the integrity of the scriptures in their pure, unaltered form and making a jump to calling it the language of heaven. Adam spoke the original language, Moses spoke Hebrew, Jesus and John the Baptist spoke Aramaic, John the Revelator spoke Greek.  The reason the Quran is in Arabic is because of Muhammed, not God.  God spoke through Gabriel to Muhammed to give a message first to the Arabic tribes and then to the world.  It had to be understandable to the original recipients.  If one takes the explanation that Arabic is the language of Jannah, then it is only because its the language of the Quran and through that revelation you get to heaven.  However, once you get there, its not going to be Arabic.....communication will be so pure and so simple that no human would comprehend it now, its not going to be anything like what we use to communicate now.

Peace to all!

Check this link: http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/aramaic_language.html - - The Aramaic Language

Clip:

Biblical Aramaic

Aramaic displaced Hebrew for many purposes among the Jews, a fact reflected in the Bible, where portions of Ezra and Daniel are in Aramaic. Some of the best known stories in biblical literature, including that of Belshazzar�s feast with the famous "handwriting on the wall" are in Aramaic.

If the "handwriting on the wall" is in Aramaic, then who wrote it? Some one from heaven! Maybe thats one of the language they spoke in heaven. And if that is the language Jesus (S) spoke I wander what "word" is for "God" in Aramaic?

You can find out by clicking on this link: Aramaic Lexicon and Concordance Then  type in the word "God".

This is another verse where God Almighty was praise in Heaven:

Rev.19:4 http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2532 - And the http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=5064 - four http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2532 - And http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=1501 - twenty http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=4245 - elders http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2532 - And the http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=5064 - four http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2226 - beasts fell http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=4098 - down http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2532 - And http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=4352 - worshipped http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2316 - God that http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2521 - sat http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=1909 - on the http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2362 - throne, http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=3004 - saying , http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=281 - Amen; http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=239 - Alleluia.

 TNC

Nur_Ilahi wrote:     (With my comments in blue) Salam Martha, We do not know what language Adam and Eve spoke, but for sure, any language that they spoke is understood by God. Always remember, He is the Creator of everything, of course He understands and He knows whether we say it aloud or keep it secret in the deepest of our hearts.(  True. )   Unlike other scriptures, which had lost its original copy, Quran is still intact. If God The Greatest wanted to preserve the Torah or the Injeel (Bible), He as the Greatest, could have done that, but He had Quran in mind, therefore He let the Torah and the Injeel got lost or corrupted because the LAST Scripture of all will definitely be protected by Him as He had assured Himself. He is afterall Al-Muhaymin - The Protector.  (  True  ) Of course during translation there maybe human errors that is why it is very important to have the original one on hand for anyone to refer anytime.  ( Very True  ) Allah does not only protect muslims in this world. To think otherwise is pure ignorance or naivety. He speaks to His chosen messengers in the language they understand.  Of course Allah does not protect only Muslims. He created everything equally for everyone. No matter what race or religion. He created air for us to breathe, water to drink, food to eat, does that not show His Mercy for the whole of mankind? He gives all these for free. He only requested that we do not associate Him with a creation of His. Because that is the sole salvation for the hereafter. ( True. Allah is Rehman. That means he grants all benefits to all living creature whether they be man or bird or beasts or atheists, without their asking for it, without their believing in the God (Allah). There is no need of any effort or belief for this attribute.  He has another name too i.e. Al-Raheem. That is the  benefactor of the believers only, humans only. They may be Muslims or christians or Jews or hindus. They should be believers in God and they should be praying to their God. This attribute does not do any good to any atheist or other animals. The animals and atheists do not benefit from Al-Raheem Allah.     Effort or belief in God and some deeds are necessary to benefit from this attribute.  ) Is that too much to ask for? I do not think so.

 There is more to it, about languages and scriptures in my next post.

 Just talking about LOVE does not mean anything. The Mercy of Allah is a good indication of his love for all creatures. Allah is Merciful (two kinds of Mercy is mentioned in my above post). That means He (Allah) loves all the creature. It is due to His Loving Mercy that we are all living.

Love should be justified.  Allah is Just and loves Justice too.

About the languages, Arabic is a very old language. It is infact the mother of all languages from  which all languages evolved. Believe it or not.

 Now come to Quran and other scriptures, without any disrespect (prejudice) to any other faith, I may present the superiority of Quran and Arabic over other books and languages as follows:

The Quran is in Arabic language. It states that it is revealed in Arabic language, clear Arabic language. The other books do not state in which language they were revealed. The name of the book (Quran) is mentioned in the Quran itself. The other books do not tell their name (Torah or bible) in their own books. Please think over these two points. Bible does  not tell in which language it was revealed to Jesus a.s.

 This is the beginning. There is more in next post soon, Insha Allah.

 Before Muhammad (s.a.w.s.), prophets had come in every nation. They heard the word of God in their own language. The prophets were raised from their own people and not from a foreign land. Their scope of duty was limited to their own people.

 Same was the case with Moses a.s. and Jesus a.s. It is wrong for the christians to say that Jesus had come to preach to all the world people. He had only been sent to improve the lot of Jews. He himself knew it and did not allow his disciples to preach to any non-Jew. Much of that has been mentioned in the later bible (called new testament).

 Jesus mission was for the  Jews only. His own people (Jews) rejected him so he departed after giving the good news of another prophet after him. Injeel means good news. In what language was the Injeel, nobody knows. At least the Injeel does not tell in which language it was revealed. The mission of all prophets before Muhammad was for their own people only and it was not for ever. The bible does not say its message is for all people and for all times. Let us take the benefit of these things from the actual books, the scriptures themselves. They are all quiet on these subjects.

 The message of Quran was revealed in Arabic and  the prophet was told to announce that he  was a  messenger for the mankind. (For all these statements, I can easily quote direct verses from the Quran as a proof.)

Because the mission of the previous prophets was not for all mankind and not for all times, it was not necessary to be preserved. So the originals got lost. It was all a pure message from God to the messengers. Nothing was wrong in it. It was  always a message of love from God. But none of that is available in its original form now. I hope I am right. Thanks, more to follow,if required.

minuteman, I really don't see the distinction you're trying to make.  The Quran is for Muslims, just as the Torah is for Jews and the Bible's New Testament is for Christians.  Anyone can be a Muslim, or a Jew, or a Christian, simply by professing belief in the corresponding scripture.

The fact that the Bible has multiple authors and multiple languages is one of the things that enhances its credibility.  In its pages we have the testimony of many independant witnesses, all corroborating one another.  The entire religion of Islam, on the other hand, seems to rely on the testimony of just one man.

Arabic is not God's language.  All languages are God's language. Everything belongs to Him, He is the Creator (Al-Khaliq).

It had to be understandable to the original recipients.  Exactly! The question we should ask ourselves is why Arabic? Why not Japanese or Russian?

If one takes the explanation that Arabic is the language of Jannah, then it is only because its the language of the Quran and through that revelation you get to heaven.  However, once you get there, its not going to be Arabic.....communication will be so pure and so simple that no human would comprehend it now, its not going to be anything like what we use to communicate now. I agree wholeheartedly. The language of Jannah is the language of the soul. Do souls have a language? Indeed they have. For example when we communicate silently with each other in a crowded area, there seems to be an understanding even if we do not know each other or we are separated far apart. Who is it that is speaking noiselessly if not the souls?

The power of the souls is so unimaginable.

Ron Webb wrote: Bible has multiple authors and multiple languages is one of the things that enhances its credibility.  In its pages we have the testimony of many independant witnesses, all corroborating one another.  The entire religion of Islam, on the other hand, seems to rely on the testimony of just one man.

Multiple authors and multiple languages enhances credibility? But I thought too many cooks spoil the broth? In fact I believe too many authors will lead to confusion and contradictions as had been proven by Western scholars regarding the errors and contradictions in the Bible.

You said that the entire religion on the other hand, seems to rely on the testimony of just one man. Right indeed! But then you must question yourself, what kind of man was Muhammad? If you were to believe the anti-Muslim websites that says so much of Muhammad as a paedophile, a terrorist, then of course, Islam will be garbage to you.

Why did God AlMighty chose Muhammad? Why Muhammad?

There are of course reasons behind the choosing of Muhammad as the last Messenger.

Ron Webb wrote: minuteman, I really don't see the distinction you're trying to make.  The Quran is for Muslims, just as the Torah is for Jews and the Bible's New Testament is for Christians.  Anyone can be a Muslim, or a Jew, or a Christian, simply by professing belief in the corresponding scripture. The fact that the Bible has multiple authors and multiple languages is one of the things that enhances its credibility.  In its pages we have the testimony of many independant witnesses, all corroborating one another.  The entire religion of Islam, on the other hand, seems to rely on the testimony of just one man.

 Ron, Please don't think Quran is the testimony of one man. There were many scribes involved who believed it to be the word of God. They knew they were writing the real revealed words of god (kalaam Allah). It was being written down immediately and accurately.

 It was spread over a period of 23 years, not just three years incidents written by unknown four people after 70-100 years. Your post is a typical idea of any christian we have heard before. But your post has helped me to understand things better. Thanks to you.

I will Insha Allah get back to you about all that. We are going to discuss the word of God too. Please wait.

Nur_Ilahi wrote: Multiple authors and multiple languages enhances credibility? But I thought too many cooks spoil the broth?

Religion is not a broth.  If we were talking about making something, as opposed to just witnessing and testifying to it, then you would have a point; but surely you're not saying that the Quran is something Muhammad "cooked up" on his own.

Any journalist will tell you that multiple independent sources are required for a credible story.  There will inevitably be minor discrepancies among sources, but the degree to which they corroborate one another is the best measure of credibility.  Having only one source means that we simply have to take that source's word for it -- and even an honest and sincere witness can be honestly and sincerely mistaken.

Why did God AlMighty chose Muhammad? Why Muhammad?

What makes you think that God chose Muhammad?  Other than Muhammad's own testimony, that is.

Nur_Ilahi wrote: Arabic is not God's language.  All languages are God's language. Everything belongs to Him, He is the Creator (Al-Khaliq). It had to be understandable to the original recipients.  Exactly! The question we should ask ourselves is why Arabic? Why not Japanese or Russian? If one takes the explanation that Arabic is the language of Jannah, then it is only because its the language of the Quran and through that revelation you get to heaven.  However, once you get there, its not going to be Arabic.....communication will be so pure and so simple that no human would comprehend it now, its not going to be anything like what we use to communicate now. I agree wholeheartedly. The language of Jannah is the language of the soul. Do souls have a language? Indeed they have. For example when we communicate silently with each other in a crowded area, there seems to be an understanding even if we do not know each other or we are separated far apart. Who is it that is speaking noiselessly if not the souls? The power of the souls is so unimaginable.

how do you know ARABIC is not ALLAH'S language

do you have any proof

The power of soul might be so unimaginable to you

as for other they do not need to imagine they know it for real as the force of life

Ron Webb wrote: but surely you're not saying that the Quran is something Muhammad "cooked up" on his own. Why did God AlMighty chose Muhammad? Why Muhammad? What makes you think that God chose Muhammad?  Other than Muhammad's own testimony, that is.

First of all Ron, I would love to know how much is your knowledge of Muhammad the Last Prophet is and whether that this whole wide world has a Creator.

Salam.

Nur_Ilahi wrote: First of all Ron, I would love to know how much is your knowledge of Muhammad the Last Prophet is and whether that this whole wide world has a Creator.

Are you changing the subject?

I know little about Mohammad, except that extravagant but unverifiable claims have been made about him -- similar to claims which have been made from time to time about a great many other religious leaders.

As for Creators and creation myths, there are thousands of them.  Every culture has at least one, often several.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_myth - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_myth  for a partial list.  I see no reason to choose among them.  Any of them could be true, but IMHO the odds are pretty slim.

So what makes you think that God chose Muhammad?

 Please tell us when you told about Mahdi a.s. in which thread? Or if it was brief then post a short note again. Thanks.

I have no part in argunig what is the "most beautiful language" as it is quite a subjective opinion. My mother was partial to French.

I will not ignore the native Arabic language of Quran, speeches of Mohammad (sawa) and 12 leaders, and their books written in Arabic to go directly to any translation. Otherwise i think i will miss many things either in meaning or even the beautiful linguistic structure that are used in those words. Therefore, I will benefit from reading them in Arabic very much and suggest you all to learn Arabic and use it. This would be one of very useful ways to benefit from the motion of guidance and AlMahdi (as) whom I talked about earlier. 

And really, even if I learn "Arabic" i still will, in my head translate into English in my head. Unless I give up English, I will always "think" in English. So some translations will always be missed. Its like the Native peoples of northern areas. .have many different words for snow. Even if I was told them, my brian will translate them into English, words it knows as reference points.

we know ALLAH speaks as for with MUSA Alahi Wa Sallim

Now as for what language he speaks in heaven

No answer just one question why not ARABIC

We know ALLAH will speak therefore there will be transmission of sound

Now this sound does it have to be in Martian or benagli or english

i am not  giving any answer just one question why not ARABIC

Ron Webb wrote: minuteman wrote: Ron, Please don't think Quran is the testimony of one man. There were many scribes involved who believed it to be the word of God. They knew they were writing the real revealed words of god (kalaam Allah). It was being written down immediately and accurately. The Quran was recorded by multiple scribes and I've no doubt that they recorded Muhammad's words accurately; but they are just reporters, not independent sources.  There is only one (human) source, and that is Muhammad.

 Ron, that was another of your mistakes, weak points. You seem to feel that multiple writers would support the book, say like bible. You want the words of men in the book? That is bad. Quran does not have the words of men in it. If the bible has got words of men supporting the incidents then good-bye to that book which will be from men, not from God. You want independent sources and that is bad for any revealed book. Do you understand that point? Now we come to another very important subject, that is the word of God (Kalaam Allah).

 The bible is not Kalaam Allah (The spoken word from God). It is only the Quran that is Kalaam Allah. It says so in the Quran itself that it is Kalaam Allah. No other book in the world is kalaam Allah. Even though the bible may contain what God said or desired and the meaning may all be there, same. But it is not in actual words of God.

 Another thing is Kalimah (The special single Sentence projecting, describing a faith). The Muslims have a Kalimah "La Ilaha Illa Allah. Muhammad Rasool Allah". There is no God but Allah. Muhammad is a messenger of Allah." That is unique sentence for the entire Muslim Ummah (nation). The other faiths, Hindus, Christians and Jews do not have any kalimah. They never had it.

 So, we note that only the Muslims have got the actual words of God and only the Muslims have a kalimah. I have already explained that only Quran tells in which language it was revealed and only the Quran tells its own name (the name of the book) in itself. I don't know if the bible calls itself a book in itself. Is there any verse in the bible OT or NT that it is a book??? Quran tells us that they are books. They do not say so themselves. Their writing, their compilation, their preparation is nowhere described in the books itself. They don't call themselves books !!

minuteman, I don't want multiple writers/reporters. I want multiple witnesses.  I want more than one person who can testify, to his own knowledge, that the Message is authentic, i.e., that it came from Allah Himself.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't believe Muhammad.  I'm just wondering why you choose to believe him in particular, rather than the Buddha, or Joseph Smith (or Mormon fame), or any number of others who have claimed to have had direct knowledge of God?