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How do you know which in verse

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Forum Name: Islam for non-Muslims
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Topic: How do you know which in verse
Posted By: believer
Subject: How do you know which in verse
Date Posted: 13 January 2008 at 7:45am

in Quran has been replaced with a better one?  Naskh



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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.



Replies:
Posted By: layalee
Date Posted: 13 January 2008 at 9:38am

I don't understand this question!?

Please re-write



Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 14 January 2008 at 12:19am

Bismilla hirahma' niraheem.

Naskh is an Arabic word which means to remove or lift away.  The Nasakh only occurs with commandments, prohibitions, permissions, and so forth. We Muslims believe in Naskh, not like the Jews who disbelived it.  To understand Naskh , it can be said that the changes in the rules can be made by Allah swt.

Further, Naskh occurred in previous Books and Law. Insha-Allah these examples shall help us understand Naskh better. Allah allowed Adam to marry his daughters to his sons and then later forbade this practice. Allah also allowed Nuh to eat from all kinds of animals after they left the ark, then prohibited eating some types of foods.

Further, marrying two sisters to one man was allowed for Israel and his children, but Allah prohibited this practice later in the Torah. Allah commanded Abraham to slaughter his son, then repealed that command before it was implemented. Also, Allah commanded the Children of Israel to kill those who worshipped the calf and then repealed that command, so that the Children of Israel were not all exterminated.

Naskh in Quran

Here is the  verse from Holy Quran which discusses Naskh

" Whatever a verse (revelation) do Nansakh (We abrogate) or Nunsiha (cause to be forgotten), We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is Able to do all things "

I shall try my best to search for it. Am sure there may be rules which have been changed by Allah swt. I wish our other members share there knowledge over this subject.

Allah swt knows the Best



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 15 January 2008 at 11:14pm

 

 Seeks, only because of your invitation in the last few lines of your post, i am indulging in this important topic. I do not believe that there is any naskh in Quran. I do not believe that any verse of the quran is mansookh (abrogated). I know there is a difference of opinion on this subject between groups of muslims and some people do not like it to be discussed.

 But because it is an important matter so it should be put up gently for study and leave the matter to the readers to decide which is right.

 The verse given by Seeks is 2:106. The translation given was correct. In other words, it can be said:

 "We do not abrogate any verse (order) or make it to be forgotten but we bring a better one in its place or equal (in quality) to that (verse, order, command)."

 It says that we do not abrogate any verse..... And if we do abrogate any verse then we bring another one in its place which is better than it or at least it is as good as the abrogated verse.

 Please note that there is no indication that it is about the Quran. And verses has other meanings such as orders or commands or signs. In the end I would say that there is no abrogated verse in the Quran and no one knows which one is abrogated exactly. There is no agreement on the list of abrogated verses.

 Any verse which the people did not understand well, or found it to be in conflict with another verse, they marked it as abrogated. So every one had his own list of abrogated verses. Such a thing puts doubt on the verses or parts of quran about their validity. That is not a good thing. All of the verses of the Quran are valid.  (More later)



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If any one is bad some one must suffer


Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 16 January 2008 at 10:30am

Assalmau Alaikum,

Everyone,

Please comply with section rules and guidelines. It is very important and it has been pointed out many times earlier:

Following links may be helpful, insha Allah ( God willing ):

http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1168265477728 - http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Islam Online-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&am p;cid=1168265477728

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503548174 - http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamO nline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=111950354817 4

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=2656&CATE=1 - http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=2656& CATE=1

May Allah guide us all.

Peace

 



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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 17 January 2008 at 5:43am

The Bible is set up in chronoligical order so it is easy to see and understand why GOD gives a certain command and at a later date gives a different command.  

Is this the case with naskh in the Quran, but it is not apparent because it is not written in chronological order? 



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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 17 January 2008 at 10:54am

Hi believer,

I hope that you would study the matter contained in the links in my last post. And we can take on from there.

Peace



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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 18 January 2008 at 7:08pm

"Let's first agree on certain points, which I believe you are aware of. First, no one can offer a correct explanation of the Qur'an except scholars who have mastered all sciences that qualify them to understand its occasions of revelation, linguistic style, structure, and all other imports and aspects."

In the Quran it appears that the whole story is not revealed as to why a verse is given or abrogated.



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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 09 April 2008 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

"Let's first agree on certain points, which I believe you are aware of. First, no one can offer a correct explanation of the Qur'an except scholars who have mastered all sciences that qualify them to understand its occasions of revelation, linguistic style, structure, and all other imports and aspects."

In the Quran it appears that the whole story is not revealed as to why a verse is given or abrogated.

Hi believer,

the bottom line is that its (Quran's) universal message of bringing people to the worship of their creator alone (which is the bigget thing in life) does not need anymore than your natural abilities. If one seriously look into it with that purpose they are lead by its light. I have seen in my personal experience, people who said never, but once they read the Quran, they could not losen their grip on it.  

Hasan

 



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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62



Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 10 April 2008 at 5:58am
I guess the question to ask, what does it matter? I can say one is curious..

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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 13 April 2008 at 2:03pm
Hayfa - To understand what exactly Allah /Mohammad are presenting in the Quran.
 
honeto - I have seen the same with the Bible, Muslims finally understanding what Christians really believe and embracing the gift of salvation through Christ.


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 14 April 2008 at 3:51am
I guess it was not that hard to understand for me...
Believe in One god
His messanger and Angels
Do acts of worship
and do acts of charity (also viewed as worship as well)
 
To me the most telling line in the Whole of Bible is "My God, My God why have you forsaken me?"  "God" would never utter these lines. If Jesus were God, how could God think that "God" could have forsaken him? If he is "god" would he even "feel" this way..
 
People "want" to beleive that Jesus is God, that if I pray to Jesus or othersaints, Maryetc it wil lhelp.  Just like when others pray to rocks, the moon, fire etc.  All created who must return to Creator.  If Jesus was created, is not the Creator.
 
 


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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 14 April 2008 at 7:22am
 
 Very good and easy post for every one to understand. Jesus had a God to whom he prayed in the garden before his arrest. He had a God to whom he called while on the cross, "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?" That proves the truth of the Quran.
 
 The bible does not tell what was the result of Jesus prayer in the garden. But the Quran tells the result of Jesus prayer. Allah informed Jesus that  1. He (Jesus) will not die on the Cross,  2. that he will be raised close to Allah,  3. that Allah will clear all bad false charges about Jesus and those things will not be remembered by any one, 4. That Allah will make the believers in Jesus to prevail upon his enemies till the day of  Judgement. ( 3:55)
 
 These were the promises made to Jesus by his God. The first was that he will not die on the cross. But when Jesus was on the cross, it appeared to him as if he was going to be killed on the cross which death he did not like. So, he suffered much bravely. But when it could not be born any more, Jesus (Isa a.s.) yelled out loudly, "O my God, O my God,..... Why have you forsaken me..." Those words are in the bible. They are not in the Quran and we may not trust or believe them.
 
 That means he was not expecting that he will die on the cross. He had the knowledge about it.
 
 We Muslims love Jesus as much as we love  Moses and Muhammad. We know that jesus  had a God. It is proved by the bible too.


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If any one is bad some one must suffer



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