Salaams To All.

I needed some help with my situation, if anyone can guide me on what i can pray to help the situation i am in.

I have been with someone for a few years with the intention of marraige. He has now told his parents who are not agreeing to this. I have prayed Istikaarah namaaz on many occasions. This has given me hope!! But now i dnt know what to do!!! As he says his mum, dad are not willing to accept me, as im indian (muslim) and he is pakistani,

If someone knows any duas that i could make that might help them change their heart.

Jazakallah  

rubs_07 wrote: I have been with someone for a few years....

What does it mean that you have been with someone for a few year?

As he says his mum, dad are not willing to accept me, as im indian (muslim) and he is pakistani,

That's absolutely riddiculous. Tell him to inform his parents that you could "convert" as a Pakistani in less than three months.

The recipe is simple. A Paki ID card - Rs.5000 even with a fake address. Passport, I believe, costs in the same region, more or less.

The better suggestion is just quarantine him, I mean, stay clear of him for a few days. And, if possible, refer him to some good psychologist. He is the problem, he is responsible for you, his mum n dad are a mere excuse of convenience. 

When i say a few years i mean i have known him, but its always been marraige!!

lol the weird thing is i can speak fluent urdu, but not punjabi, but can understand most of what they say...

My advice, if there is no hope for a relationship with this man and if he continues to be influenced by his parents then there is no need to continue to lose energey over something that obviously will not work

Absolutely prophetic, brother Israfil

I will go just a step further, it's not something that obviously will not work, it is simply not working as it is.

My gut feeling, vibe, whatever, he is the problem. I married an Indian, Urdu speaking girl when I was barely 19 years 2 months and 21 days old. And, one of the most powerful Pathan clan in tha part of the world, socially, politically and in all aspects of life could do NADA.

Such men or, should I say, boys, should be banned from public life. Reminds me of the some of those earlier Pakis into Britain. They would drive around without driving licences and if ever caught by the police they would plead "sorry, me ispeak no Inglesh".

Rubs, what country do you live in? Hand me the guy and I will make a man out of him - in three simple days. But I need the delivery in Mehmand agency or in Zhob (Baluchistan)!!

 The above posts by whisper and Israfil are perfectly good advice. That person is just using the name of the mom and dad to refuse marriage. There is no need to marry that person.

 The question arises, Have you met his parents and how many times?? What is your own opinion about his parents??? Have you never met them?? Had he ever mentioned you before his parents??

 Is it understood that you are both in same country outside the Indian sub-continent?? You are niether in India nor Pakistan. Then where are you?? Please tell.

 One small advice will be given when you answer the above questions. That is a lame excuse. Indian Muslim is not different to the Pakistani Muslim.

Dear Rubs,

I heard alarm bells ringing when I read your post. I'm muslim, white British and married a Pakistani man(dont like to refer to them as Pakis) 3 years ago.

I often spoke to his family by phone, but he never took me to Pakistan. Understanding Islam I knew that there SHOULD be no difference between caste and culture.

He went back June last year and stayed for 6 months. He returned Christmas Eve. After me asking questions he told me he had another wife. As to whether he married her before me, or last year, he has never told me. But obviously his culture, not the religion came first to his mother. As oldest son he has to obey her first and not the wife. A Pakistani wife is never treated equal, and depending on how educated the family is depends whether the wife is more like a servant than a wife. It didnt matter to his family that I was getting hurt. I was a nobody. I worked very hard and paid the bills here, while my husband worked and sent his money home.

The whole thing has left me confused, unfit for work, and consequently heavily in debt. I supported his spouse visa.

Rubs, to have such questions as yours is not a good sign.

Last week I cancelled my husbands visa. We have lived separate since May. He went to Pakistan again 7 weeks ago now, telling me he was going for 3. So now when he goes to the airport an alert will come up on his visa. What he will do then is beyond me.

You may both love eachother very much. But love has little to do with it I'm afraid. He might marry you, but he will be obligated to marry a Pakistani woman if his parents insist. And can you handle that? Ultimately I wasnt able to. He lied to me. He has probably lied to the other wife too. Secret phone calls home, secret phone calls to me from Pakistan. Pakistanis especially Punjabi ones from the north, are by nature very secret people. It is a well known fact. Doesnt say much for them understanding Islam either.

Think very carefully. Do you really want all the hastle? He will have to do as his parents say, even more so if he comes from a town or village. They wont consider you, because you are not one of them. You are most likely going to be used for some other purpose.

Sorry I cant tell you that love wins, but you must consider all these facts first.

Let us know what happens. You have already had some very good advice from others. Please consider everything you have read.

Whisper, you said the early Pakis pretended not to speak English in the early days of being in Britain. I can assure you that still exists, not out of ignorance with the language, but just so they can get whatever they want, even visas.

As-salaam alaykum sis.martha

My heart goes out to you&am really sorry things turned this way.But no regrets,for Allah never deserts His faithful servants.It's rather unfrtunate,but Allah knows best.I would just like to implore you to find that rhythm back into your life.Wether you wish for it or not,that man would even tually get his life back together,Whichever way,he'd either return permanently to Pakistan to be with his other wife&famiy or be stuck i UK.I doubt the latter would prevail.He knows better than that.

Please take care of yourself,pay attention to your health&see how you can get back on track.I know it's easier said than done,but my dear sister,life goes on,with or without him.And you've got to convince yourself that.

Allowing the ordeal to weigh you down would mean more health problems&it would affect every other aspect of your life.May Allah grant you peace of mind&ease your affairs.Just continue to put your trust in Him&don't be disillusioned.Humans fails humans,but Allah deserts us not,if only we put our Trust in Him.

Am sorry if that went off Rubs' topic.

But i believe people have spoken&they have spoken well,masha Allahu.

It's better to listen than be sorry later  Rubs.Please make the right decision while you've still got the time.Marriage is no joke in Islam.And  once any hindrance isn't Islamic related,then don't let anyone fool you.Stay within the bounderies of Islam&not some selfish ideology of some ignoramus.ANyone can claim to be a Muslim,but not everyone's a Muhmin!!

May Allah guide you aright&make your path easy.Ameen!!

Whisper, you said the early Pakis pretended not to speak English in the early days of being in Britain. I can assure you that still exists, not out of ignorance with the language, but just so they can get whatever they want, even visas.

Martha, the irony is that after all they still believe they are better beings than anyone else on our earth. And, specially, in Britian, which is a generous and a very gentle host and, possibly, the only country with a model welfare system!

Yes Whisper, I agree. Britains still suffer not only for the Empires past doings(I wont say mistakes, as hindsight is a wonderful thing) but also because we are extremely generous to immigrants to the deteriment of our own people.

As a nation we are too soft on others. I think most British  on the whole are honest human beings. Yet others can come, work illegally for years and have no-one chasing them for tax! When I lived in London I saw the most terrible things, but the government turn a blindeye to it all. Britains are upset at this time. We are being taken for a ride by most it seems.

Actually I could go on and on, but I would take hours

Salaams,

Understanding that you want the parents of this man to change their minds... but if they have not met you, that probably will not happen.  Pakistan is a very socially conservative society.

Keep in mind that marriages are arranged in that society. And for the most part, it does work. It is not a matter of getting along soley with the spouse but the family as well. It is  not all that strange that they are reluctant to do a marriage to a person they have not seen. Especially if you would possibly live in that culture and family. They don't know the qaulity of the person you are, and marriage is for life. 

I am not saying that are right for not giving you a chance. But they are cautious. My friend married a nonPaksitani woman. He brought her to his home in Karachi and she has a VERY diffficult time. They ended up divorcing. Caution is not a bad thing. At least the man is being honest with you and telling you. He is not gonig to marry you and then end up divorcing you, or marrying you for a green card.

Martha, I have to disagree with you, that if he did marry her,  he would have to marry a Pakistani wife. This is not necessarily the case. I know a number of people married to Pakistani people and their families are fine. It does depend upon the individual family.

And also about mothers vs. wife etc..  it s inot always that typoe of conflict. One thing that I noticed is that everyone is expected to obey their elders.  And their are different tensions in a household where everyone lives together. Yes you obey your parents, just as your kids will obey you.

but does any1 know anything i can pray that might help the matters???

 Martha is right. The British are good and wise people. They were the first to behave themsleves, getting rid of the divine right of kings. They occupied many places in the world and developed / educated the people there. They enforced decent laws and upheld civil liberties and supported secular social good behaviour.

Even now they are very easy and loving people. But what to do about the pakistanis who cannot digest decency. It is the misbehaviour of the Pakistanis and generally the Muslims who is putting them at odd with the things.

The story of Martha is very moving, and a typical common case. Her husband was at fault. Now martha should have trust in God, more than before. I wonder if they had any children. Martha should keep meeting the Muslims and attend all gatherings. That will make life easy and may pick up some new interest in life. She supported the man and his second spouse +parents financially . That is a matter of the past.

I wonder what that man was doing himself and why was he not earning enough to support Martha. So let bygone be bygone. Good-bye to the bad guy. Good riddence.

Thankyou for everyones comments... I have taken this on board. I have met most of the family, even the mum, dad. They just didnt know who i was. Use to work with his sister.

I live in England. Reading everyones comments sounds easy to do, but i still have hope, but then again i have made it clear i cant wait anymore. That if he has decided to choose his mum, then his parents have succeded. And there was no point even telling them. As he never managed to gain anything from telling them.  I really dont know what to do, do i wait a little while see what happens or move on and see whats around the corner... Only allah knows best.

Thanks minuteman for your comments. I was previously married and had 3 children. But no children with the Pakistani man, though I would have liked that. I now live alone. I wouldnt wish my situation on anybody, but it will improve I'm sure

Rubs, I wish you well. And I really hope your boyfriend is honest with you. At least that way your mind will be clear as to how to move foreward with your life. Keep us updated. We all care about eachother in this forum, even if we dont always agree. Without the members I would be quite alone.

Rubs perfectly asked: but does any1 know anything i can pray that might help the matters???

There is no particular prayer, consult with God on your own time or performing your normal prayers. Of course there are non-obligatory prayers that you could perform that God would suddely activate blessings. God knows your plea from the moment it happened, best believe that your miracles are in the works.

Yes Whisper, I agree. Britains still suffer not only for the Empires past doings(I wont say mistakes, as hindsight is a wonderful thing) but also because we are extremely generous to immigrants to the deteriment of our own people.

My friend, Marthius Britanicus, if the British public even knew just one tenth of what their ruling class thugs were doing in the world, they would have hanged them all across the country and saved the world all these mess ups.

The Brits were their elite class' first victims, they practiced their exploitation at them before exporting it abroad.

I love my friend, Minuteman's, Obituary of the Empire as if the world had never known any rule of law or other such things ever before Westminster exported these? He seems to forget the salt that his countrymen had to eat had to come but just from the Cheshire mines!

I won't go through the rest of the criminal list. Sorry, I am just a Pathaan, I call a spade a spade, I am not smart, like my brethern from the sub-continent who have the kind technology of justifying any and all occupiers - since 223 BC.

but does any1 know anything i can pray that might help the matters???

Prayers normally are bound to fail if when we run against His basic Laws of life. Think! You set your sleeping bag, somewhere, across the London - Bristol railtrack and say some prayer and snore away!

Sorry, but the Brits didn't quality control when they were letting hordes of Pakis in, you find the worst lot in the pobre United Kingdom. I do understand your situation, but my vibe is that he is the problem, mum n dad are just a nice escape.

How old is our Romeo Punjabicus? Under 16?

UUh Whisper,very funny!!!lol!But this'  a serious issue.

My two cents,if you may Rubs,the question of waiting or not depends on you.Wait,wait for what?Your fiance to chaneg his mind or that of his parents?If you really want to wait,why not give him an ultimatum-Tell him you'd wait for his finaldecsion by so so and so after which you'd move on with your life?I think you should try to give him a span of your 'waiting period',if you so decide.The truth is,anyone can seek advise,and everyone may give their admonition;but the onus is on the 'questioner' to decide if to follow the opinions of the answerer(s).My dear sister,be true to yourself&finalise whatever it is between you and this prospective husband of yours.If he wants you,he would protect you from his parents&take a stand that he has chosen his wife to be&that his parents should accept his choice if they care about him&his happiness.If he doesn't,and clearly hasn't done that,do you need a crystal ball to tall you what he really wants?Obviously not.You can see the handwriting on the wall,except that you don't want to read it.I'm sory if i sound harsh.I know what it feels like to wish for something you can't have.But the harsh reality again is that,the ealier you get over this phase,the earlier you move on with your life&pray for the man that is rightfully yours,masha Allahu.

I pray Allh guides you in making the decision that would benefit you in this Dunniyah&Al-Khakheerah!Ameen!!!!

Even though i might not support everything whisper said,it's true that the"man's the problem"!!!Astagfirullah!!!

 Perfectly good words from lovesakeenah. Every word is meaningful.

I wonder if both friends have the English nationality?? Because if they do not then it can be the cause of complications.

About prayers, it is very important that 1. One does not get tired of praying for something.  2. The prayers should be for good and logical, legal things.  3. The best time to pray and speak to God is during prosteration and the prayer shoud be in your own language, after the ritual Arabic words of Tasbeeh.

 Please also consider that none of us is able to advise you in the matter of a case of Majnoun - Laila. That means intense love for some one without the fear of ill effects. Rub has to weigh her longings. And read the post of lovesakeenah again and again.

To Whisper: Sir I was only comparing the various invading forces of Europe during the last few centuries who occupied most part of the world. There were French in North Afrika and dutch in the far east. The Indians were lucky to have the British who brought a rule of law for varying faith and race people in India. Otherwise what was there?? The kings and princes were having dance and music sessions in palaces and wasting the public money.

 The British gave personal liberty to every one to practice their own faith. That was the best thing that they did. and Muslims (specially Punjabi Muslims) should be very much thankful to the British. We know that any one who does not thank his benefactor does not thank Allah too. So I do not want to be a thankless person.

To Whisper: Sir I was only comparing the various invading forces of Europe during the last few centuries who occupied most part of the world.

Brother, I agree with you in that sense.

But the French, the Portugese or the Spanish didn't bend the minds of their subjects. They didn't leave behind so much of internal strife. They didn't spit in and break every pot when the fo0lks wanted it back from them - like partitioning India - just to dilute the extent of heavy Muslim minority in that place.

One of my friends says that there is no place ever more complicated (he uses some other word, but wish to stay on IC for a while, yet!) than where Cricket is played!!

Benefactors? You mean they did all those things out of charity for los pobre Indianos? They only and ever did anything that was good for their business and good control of the place. They are exactly like the Americans, the only difference is they just smell and behave slightly better.

The Brit public is entirely different, but they could NOT stop their greedy duplidocuss rulers from getting their boys into Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't know about Iraq, but the Pathaans are extremely hospitable to their occupiers, a good 38% of the NATO chaps are now confirmed hard drug addicts!

Whisper. Some facts for you. The old Britain did much for the old India:- education, hospitals and a better chance. Britain also gave out British passports to the Indians. A very charitable gesture.Whether we did right to split India into two to form Pakistan and India is always debatible. But Britain did not expect the 2 new nations to cause mass bloodshed. Not clever on the Asians part.

More recently, Mrs Thatcher made it possible for many Asians to come to Britain to train in good professions. We are a helpful nation, not a hindrance. You fail to point out our charitable deeds when Pakistan had a huge earthquake 2 years back. The British public raised millions of pounds of aid. Nothing to do with the government. That was a separate issue.

If you ask the Pakistani/Indians their opinion now, many agree that life would be better if they were still under British rule.

And Britain is nothing like the US

Most recent, I agree we were unable to get our government to stop from invading Iraq and Afganistan with the US. We never wanted our boys to go.

Rubs, sorry we are totally off the subject now. Let us know how it  isgoing. We are thinking about you. It is not an easy situation for you. Next thing, Whisper will probably say it's the fault of the British that this has happened.

The old Britain did much for the old India:- education, hospitals and a better chance.

I always love this spin as if India had no educational institutions or a real health system before the Brits discovered their Golden Bird. Once, I watched a programme on the telly, which actually implied that the Indians didn�t speak with each before the great gift of the English language was delivered to them?

Just imagine, millions of Indians going about their streets as some deaf mutes. I am not too sure if they could see or not?

Why did the Brits go there?

India was a fully developed society + an area PRODUCING 72% of the global produce. It was like the Dubai of that day. As if the Brits or any other invader would spend even an ounce of energy on jumping on some empty cart?

Britain also gave out British passports to the Indians. A very charitable gesture.

My heart goes out for the Brits. Their passports! After looting all their wealth?

Whether we did right to split India into two to form Pakistan and India is always debatible.

Really? And, it�s not a known habit of the Brits to partition every country before they leave. Malaysia? They were lucky to have Tunko Abdel Rahman to whisper to them to keep united.

Nigeri � Biafra � war and ultimate defeat of the actual Brit plan.

I won�t mention Palestine, because the whole world know of this wound and the great Brit contribution to it. Great Churchill is on record saying: �and we would have 400,000 or even a million Jews doing our bidding in that part of the world�.

Not clever on the Asians part.

These very Asians had LIVED in absolute harmony for well over 1072 years, together.

I know, tomorrow, you will be saying the same thing about Iraq � after the SITUATION there has been created solely by Britain, the US and Australia - the English speaking cousins.

More recently, Mrs Thatcher made it possible for many Asians to come to Britain to train in good professions.

Despite the fact that you mention that poor Grocerette, I will just ask you one simple question: Were these �Asians� always the same before that golden British touch?

Do you know anything about conditions in London, I won�t even mention the provincial towns, in the 17^th century?

You fail to point out our charitable deeds when Pakistan had a huge earthquake 2 years back. The British public raised millions of pounds of aid.

I am not discussing the poor British public who are equally abused and subjugated by their lying and cheating masters.

If you ask the Pakistani/Indians their opinion now, many agree that life would be better if they were still under British rule.

When did you conduct that poll?

I know it not to be true, yet what a great consolation for our past sins. Today, no one, no one, across the globe envies or even has been left with any sympathy for the Brits. They are despised. Not our fault, just your recent bligerances.

Whisper, you are the one to be despised, or maybe pitied is a better word.

Thanks for the compliments, my dear dear Martha, and more for proving the age old adage that Truth is bitter.

You know very little about Britain, that is obvious, nor about our relationships with others.

My friend, I know both the Britains, full well. I know the Brit isles that I was schooled in and I also happen to know the Brit role that has played absolutely dirty games, with the world, out of sheer self interest.

I have my sympathies for you on spotting someone calling a spade a spade. I also have a bit of sympathy for this thread and am taking our debate to a new topic: "For Pobre Marthas of our world".

Let's meet there and please do come prepared with some facts and figures, not just with mere blind patriotism.

Ha ha mi amigo!

Te esperando. Venga pues!