How would you justify this...?
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Topic: How would you justify this...?
Posted By: Anatolian
Subject: How would you justify this...?
Date Posted: 30 September 2007 at 1:27am
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Aiysha?
No need to clarify... |
Replies:
Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 30 September 2007 at 10:36am
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Please ask your question by stating it clearly. It is important to read the guidelines: http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4589&PN=1 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4589& ;PN=1 http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7684&PN=1 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7684& ;PN=1 Peace ------------- Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? Qur'an 55:13 |
Anatolian wrote:Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 30 September 2007 at 11:29am
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Ask a real question, and you will get a real answer. Case in point: How would you justify... http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10346&PN=1 - Mary and Joseph ? No need to clarify... Oops! I forgot to ask a real question!  ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 1:24am
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what do you mean no need to clarify ??? what about Aishya? As far as i know is a name for a girl, i asume there are lots of girls with the name Aishya
-------------  ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 4:49am
Yes and it is a pretty name  ------------- When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi |
Posted By: Anatolian
Date Posted: 01 October 2007 at 11:33pm
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In the Hadith Muhammed proclaims that he was given the right, by Allah, to
marry his adopted son's wife Aiysha. In what way does that help Islam and why would Allah, or whoever was sending Muhammed messages, find that truly important that an aya should proclaim such. I mean where is the sense of it to better the faith to the masses by such a declaration by the prophet? |
Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 02 October 2007 at 4:26am
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I don't think Ayisha was married to anyone else before she married the Prophet (PBUH). What Hadith are you looking at?? Yes the Prophet married widowed and divorced women. This is a good thing as these women in many societies were seen as not "worthy" to be married. So I think it is a good example that men should marry women and provide for them. No matter age, etc. In some places all over the world, divorce is not a recognized option, even in cases of abuse. Of course divorce should be a last resort but it still should be an option provided. ------------- When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 02 October 2007 at 8:34am
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Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem You ask this question becouse you have simply accepted the role of a child as has been dictated to you by the society you live in. You should know that prior to modern schooling system the age of maturity was much younger than it is today, now due to this system and being locked up untill the age of 18 young adults can not mature properly untill after they leave school. You may think it is normal becouse you know nothing else but until extremely recently in our history women where considered spinsters at the age of 22, you should clearly think about this and its implications on a wider level and what it says about our modern society. ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 02 October 2007 at 1:40pm
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I think Anatolian is referring to Zainab (ra) , not Aisha (ra). Yes, Zainab was married to the Prophet's adopted son, but their marriage was not successful and both were willing to opt for a divorce. The point of the verse which allowed the marriage between the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and Zainab (ra) was to make it clear that one's adopted son is not a biological son. In other words, adoption did not make people relatives. Islam considers one's lineage to be of great importance, and one should never change one's family name. Therefore, adoption is not encouraged, because that would make the adopted person's family name obsolete (it would be changed to the adopted father's name). Of course, taking care of orphans is still a great deed in Islam, as the Prophet said that the one who cares for orphans will be with him in Paradise like the index and middle fingers.
------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 02 October 2007 at 8:10pm
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rami i think your post is way of topic
------------- ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Posted By: Anatolian
Date Posted: 02 October 2007 at 11:43pm
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A few points just to bring me up to see where everybody stands.
1) Hayfa you basically are for polygammy? I understand at that time many widows were made so because of the warfare between the early muslims and the remainder of the Arabian population. Personally that is not right in my opinion but since thats not a basis for discussion will leave those thoughts to myself. Now how does that apply to modern times? Should it be applied to our times? And if so shouldnt women also have that right? 2) I completly understand with girls being married early off in that part of the world because I'm originally from that part of the world where it was accepted. My grandmother was 16 when she was married. The times called for it sure. But to marry or engage a girl of 9 is a huge difference between that and early twenties late teens. How does a girl truly mature. Yes the marriage was consumed at 12 years old but still. No matter what society dictates at any time that is rediculous. If Allah gave Muhammed permission to wed her at that age why is that type of "priviledge" not given to the other prophets sent before him. How is that act commited by Muhammed, require Allah to basically send an ok to move forward with it? How does that better your visin of him as a man and a prophet? Would you allow your daughter if you had one to go to man much older then her and wed her to him? Even if he claims to be a messenger of God? Absolutly not! 3) Islamispeace, your right it was Zainab not Aiysha. Does it show in the Qu'ran that the marriage wasn't successfull, fruitfull or a happy one? If so please show me where. Thank you. Also an interesting point made by Islamispeace is the adoption system, in Islam. I understand that being a parentless orphan was a shamefull thing in Arabia at the time and not just Arabia but many many places in this world where the word "bastard" is used in the ugliest of derogatory words. It's not only in Islamic or Arabic culture but the interesting point here is the last name, geneology, of an individual. How is a child to be loved and taken care for as any child with a mother and father? By state institutions? How will he receive an individual, independent relaionship if adoption is frowned upon in Islam? It's become a "class" system where you cannot be as everyone else cannot be loved equally or raised equally because your parentless. Throw orphans some bread and water but dont raise them? How is that a great deed? |
Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 03 October 2007 at 5:30am
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Hello, Polygamy.. such anothe hot button topic. There is quite little polygamy these days. but yes, actually it does still have relevance in this world. Yes it is not for most people. But it is for some. Here is why I believe that.. the world is changing.. rapidly. And in a way things are still relevent and such because women are always on the short end of the stick, economically etc. women are more vulnerable especially if they have children. The option should be provided..and for some it works out fine. to have it the other way.. woman marrying two men is not necessary... (except in India and China with all the female abortions and female infanticide but that is another issue Marriage at an early age. People agreed to marriages with chilren at a young age. Happened all over the world. It was a matter of biology. once you were able to reproduce etc. you got married. It was a different world then. Life expectency was short (and still is in some places) I know a boy recently in a village in the mountains who was married at 13! 13. Hard to fathom. That is what you do. And people would agree to marry their children at early ages. It was just how things were done. The word "adoption" can be mixed up due to culture and terminology. We can adopt just not change a person's name and neglect our relatives. It is about not hiding a person's history from them. In the west they used to lie to children about the adoption. Never tell them. And when they were older they were in for the shock of their lives. It was like being lied to. When you try to "hide" someones lineage it is a deception. And that is not a healthy thing. Now adoptions in the west are far more "open." And the way we think of "adoption" is rare becasue most people have relatives who help each other out in times of need. But if I ever "adopted" a child who has no parents or relatives, and loved them that is a blessing. I look at it this way.. THe Prohet Mohammed (PBUh) adopted. his must make it fine to adopt. 2nd, the inheritance to one's own children and not to others is due to the fact that you wer repsonsible for producing these children. This does not mean you cannot give a "gift" to an adopted child before one's passing. And thw Quran saying it is okay for him to marry his adopted son's wife is to let people know that just cause you are related through "adoption" does not mean you cannt marry. The Quran lists who you can and cannot marry. This was just one more "point" so people will know for the future.
------------- When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi |
)Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 03 October 2007 at 3:26pm
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"Islamispeace, your right it was Zainab not Aiysha. Does it show in the
Qu'ran that the marriage wasn't successfull, fruitfull or a happy one? If so please show me where. Thank you." The verse in question says that Zaid willingly dissolved the marriage with Zainab. Furthermore, in the Hadiths, it is explained by Zaid himself that he was not happy with the marriage. I will get you the exact references shortly. It is almost Iftar time! ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 05 October 2007 at 5:30pm
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The Holy Quran says (my comments are in red): "Behold! Thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: "Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah." (This statement refers to Prophet Muhammad's advice to Zaid to try to work out the problems of the marriage with Zainab, after Zaid had complained to him) But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then when Zaid had dissolved (his marriage) with her, with the necessary (formality), We joined her in marriage to thee (Here we get confirmation that Zaid did indeed willingly divorce Zainab and that he found no way to work out the problems they had): in order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the Believers in (the matter of) marriage with the wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have dissolved with the necessary (formality) (their marriage) with them. And Allah's command must be fulfilled." (Sura Al-Ahzab:37) In Sahih Bukhari: "Volume 9, Book 93, Number 516: Narrated Anas:
Zaid bin Haritha came to the Prophet complaining about his wife. The
Prophet kept on saying (to him), "Be afraid of Allah and keep your
wife." Aisha said, "If Allah's Apostle were to conceal anything (of
the Quran he would have concealed this Verse." Zainab used to boast
before the wives of the Prophet and used to say, "You were given in
marriage by your families, while I was married (to the Prophet) by
Allah from over seven Heavens." And Thabit recited, "The Verse:-- 'But
(O Muhammad) you did hide in your heart that which Allah was about to
make manifest, you did fear the people,' (33.37) was revealed in
connection with Zainab and Zaid bin Haritha." So, it is clear that Zaid and Zainab were not happy with the marriage, and that despite this, the Prophet (pbuh) was urging them to work out their problems. Had he wanted, he could have said to Zaid "well, there are plenty other fish in the sea; divorce her and I will take her". He did not do this. Furthermore, after Zaid divorced her, the Prophet did not immediately go to her and ask her for marriage. On the contrary, he waited for the 'Iddah period (which is 3 months, I believe) ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Anatolian
Date Posted: 06 October 2007 at 12:48am
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Just a quick observation I will just make this point. This law of Allah differs
quite strongly with previous mentions of marriage and divorce compared in the OT and NT. Jewish and Christian teachings are much different then the Islamic. Why is it that Allah, if He is the same God of the Judeo/Christian believers, so different not just in this aspect but others as well? How is Islam in this way a "continuence" of the previous two faiths? It's like God changed his mind within 600 years after the death of Christ and decided to go a different route... |
Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 06 October 2007 at 2:15am
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It is a wandering type of statement from Anatolian. No specific example is given for some good reason. Was it necessary to keep things in shadow?? If the laws of Islam are different to those of the OT and NT then those laws should be mentioned so that every one can see the points of difference and disagreement. Moses a.s. was given a law, a very good law for the Jews (and the Christians) . When came Muhammad s.a.w.s. then definitely some changes occured in the new law. But I am sure that there was nothing bad. If there was anything good in the law of Moses a.s. then the same will be found (retained) in the Islamic law. Anatolian may please indicate where there is a difference in the Mosaic law and the Islamic law. We can leave the church alone for the time being because they do not follow any law. ------------- If any one is bad some one must suffer |
Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 06 October 2007 at 10:34am
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Anatolian, Please start one topic at a time, and stick to the topic. After the discussion has been concluded on that topic, start another topic. That is the standard way of learning. Peace ------------- Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? Qur'an 55:13 |
Posted By: on1on5
Date Posted: 07 October 2007 at 11:10am
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Dear Anatolian, I think the same that happens to you now, happened to me when I was at high school. As a person born to a Muslim community(like you as I guess) I certainly believed in god but it is not easy to face the questions about Islam and sheria especially about the issues like polygamy, marriage of the prophet Mohammed (pbuh) with Aisha, (and many similar questions follow: Is men superior to women, is it justice to cut the hand of a thief etc etc etc?) especially in the modern world and especially in th e breeze of globalism that turns its face to the west, western values and positivism, especially if there are many against Islam trying to find the "soft belly" of Islam. At these times I recommend you to turn back to the Quran and listen to what Allah tells you. And then when you read the Mohammed's life again you can understand things better and pieces will fit to their places. Mohammed (pbuh) is suggested as a model to Muslims but I believe there are many things to be discovered by us in his life beyond his daily life, his marriages etc. Of course these are also important but his being alone in world of injustice and primitive thoughts as a prophet, his debate, his invitation are worth thinking on. I hope your heart which is being bothered with questions and with a debate of reasoning, finds peace soon. Because belief is by mind and by heart at the same time as Allah says. As salaam. |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 07 October 2007 at 12:25pm
Have you not read the Old Testament? Do you not see the many differences between it and the New Testament? The most obvious one that comes to mind is the nature of God. Why is it that the New Testament God, if He is the same God of the Old Testament, so different in His nature? Why is it that the Old Testament God strictly prohibited certain types of food and meat, but the New Testament God does not? How is Christianity in this way a continuance of the message of God to humanity? Is this not an example of God changing His mind after 3,000 years on a different route? ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 09 October 2007 at 6:50pm
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Its quite clear that you are n't here with good intentions. Else your post would not have been so ROUGH. Its not that God has changed the mind. The Almighty knows, the capacity of the minds of people like us. For instance, if your child intends to be a medical doctor, Will u directly admit him into a medical college, without any schooling and competitive exams. You don't right? Its quite clear that as that child may not grasp it due the incapacity, he's made capable all these years to get admitted in a medical college. Similarly, laws were introduced accordingly. Islam is no new religion. It was right from Adam AS. Though the other rules differed but the fundamental rule of ISlam was the same. All the Prophets preached to believe in one GOD. The other rules varied according to the time. By the time of Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him, human minds reached the level of sophistication. And till today Holy Quran applies even to the new generations. ------------- Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent." |
Posted By: Anatolian
Date Posted: 09 October 2007 at 11:58pm
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I doubt that the Qu'ran can be applied in modern times. You tend to
forget the Qu'ran is not only a religious guide but also every other aspect of life concerning health, politics, human rights and the sort. 1) Would you like to see a women stoned to death for adultery? 2) A thief's hand being chopped off? 3) An ex Muslim professing his new faith being intimidated and killed for this? 4) Those rejecting Islam who are either crucified, decapitated, hands and feet cut off? 5) Getting caught drinking and being lashed at with a wip? Just to name a few... If you answered yes to any of the above you should apply for perminent residency in either Saudia Arabia, Somalia, or Kandahar, Afghanistan (The Taliban I presume have a major presence there). |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 10 October 2007 at 12:18am
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Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem These are are all prescribed punishments from god that existed in scripture prior to Islam, certainly in Christianity and Judaism, therefor your reaction to them is nothing more than preconditioned emotions that you have chosen to uphold not a true indication of the nature of these crimes in God estimation since he is the truth not yourself. The question shouldnt be about these punishments since you will be punished for doing these wrong things according to all three faiths now or in the hereafter but which of the three faiths is correct and how you will fair in the afterlife. Your answer thus far seems to be my faith is in European society, wrong answer according to all religions. As spock would say Live long and propser. ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 10 October 2007 at 1:46am
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You mean Spock ? guess someone's not a trekki fan ------------- ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 10 October 2007 at 6:04am
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Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem Spock spoke that ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: Angela
Date Posted: 10 October 2007 at 9:22am
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Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 11 October 2007 at 2:21am
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Anatolian: 1) Would you like to see a women stoned to death for adultery?
2. My reply is the same as above in number 1. It will have to be seen that no one's hands are cut just for stealing bread etc. Why should any one try to steal?? Punishment is there even now in every country but it is some lenient punishment. So stealing goes on at high scale. Once a severe punishment is prescribed with the appropriate laws of Zakat and easy justice then people will have no need to steal. But if after all facilities being provided, they try to steal then the hand may be cut off. 3 & 4. There is no need of killing any one for change of faith. It will be wrong to do that. There is no compulsion in religion. Let every one believe in what they like. 5. There should be a punishment for drinking and gambling. It is inhuman and bad for the society. That is my opinion only. I am not enforcing it. I am only supporting it. If anatolian wants adultry and thieves and drinkers / gamblers then it may be good for anatolian. I do not say that we should change the laws of the western countries. They are democratic countries, masters of their own affairs having sense and responsibilty. They can have the drinking and gambling and prostitution and free sex (no marriage necessary) etc. But I feel that they are doing wrong. Now the problem is that if those countries want to abolish drinking by law, they cannot do it. A good example of that is the prohibition law in United States of early 20th century. It had to be withdrawn very soon because they failed to achieve any good result. There is drinking ( in hiding ) in the Muslim countries too. There is severe punishment for drinking, yet the people steal and get hold of liqour. A bridge had to be erected for the Saudis to go to Bahrain (Island) easily by road. ------------- If any one is bad some one must suffer |
Posted By: Anatolian
Date Posted: 14 October 2007 at 3:52pm
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Wow I must say I truly didn't expect such replies especially by minuteman
and Rami. If Allah created man he created him with free thoughts, a conscience, why would he allow his creations to attack one another for sins? Allah is all powerfull and the true judge of all so why can't he punish those who commit sins in the afterlife? Why use other humans to work such deeds in such ways? Can he not do them himself? I'm guessing both of you are fine with the Mutaween, the Islamic religious inforcers of Saudia Arabia who beat and persecute those who do not follow proper Islamic rituals and traditions. What "freedom" is that? All I read in this forum is how Islam is free and allows all it's faithfull to live as they please. Yet it doesn't. What's it to you or any other man to judge one's thoughts, feeling, and acts? Has Allah given man the power to other men to punish those who inflict harm to themselves through alcohol and tobacco and whatever they may wish to use? Now minuteman has twisted this whole situations to the point where he believes that I like thieves I support adultery. What kind of mentality is this? I dispise these sins but I also believe in human mistake and how one can rise above all this and stop commiting them. For whatever reason why one steals or sleeps around is no excuse. But for one to steal and feed his children I believe he doesnt merrit such execution. These practices were inforced in Judaism such as stoning and lashes but not in Christianity. Jesus Christ forgave those who commited these acts. That is why he among other prophets before Him is different. He brought peace and left all the Judging to God. If you are to claim such teaching in the New Testament then by all means show me where. Minuteman also claims that death sentences to those who change religion is not a law yet it's done in every major islamic society even in the West! After the death of Muhammed many returned to idol worshipping or Christianity or Judeism, once that was happening the leaders of Islam decideed to put an end to it... That is in the Hadiths. The prophjet himself denounced this that explains why all ex muslims are faced with true hardships in there decisions. As for alcohol, it was a gift from God just like pork, shellfish or any other foods or creations. Consume it appropriatly with complete self respect and pleasure as long as no harm is done to you or others around you. Thats my opinion... |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 14 October 2007 at 7:47pm
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Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem If Allah created man he created him with free thoughts, a conscience, why would he allow his creations to attack one another for sins? Allah is all powerfull and the true judge of all so why can't he punish those who commit sins in the afterlife? Why use other humans to work such deeds in such ways? Can he not do them himself? Is this rhetoric or a serious theological question, you may as well be asking why Allah didnt materialise that shiny red car you wished for soon after you pleaded with him. your statements painfully neglect the obvious, every other society on earth prescribes punishment for those who break the law, i wonder what type of standard you have set up for yourself to discern what the truth is. Your comments are full of antagonism. I'm guessing both of you are fine with the Mutaween, the Islamic religious inforcers of Saudia Arabia who beat and persecute those who do not follow proper Islamic rituals and traditions. Then you would be wrong, since these people enforce something called fard al ain [personnel obligation] upon people and as the title states these religious obligations are personnel and not enforceable upon anyone so they are breaking a fundamental command in the Quran La Ikraha fi deen [there is no compulsion in religion]. Most people would come to the rational conclusion that humans are not following the dictates of the religion rather than form the extreme opinion that the religion itself is wrong based upon human actions. What "freedom" is that? All I read in this forum is how Islam is free and allows all it's faithfull to live as they please. You are making this up, there is a word for total freedom its called Anarchy. Yet it doesn't. What's it to you or any other man to judge one's thoughts, feeling, and acts? Has Allah given man the power to other men to punish those who inflict harm to themselves through alcohol and tobacco and whatever they may wish to use? When your action affect the wider society than Yes he has. Dont be so st**id as to parade your vices to the public and expect no action to be taken against them that is just common sence. These practices were inforced in Judaism such as stoning and lashes but not in Christianity. Jesus Christ forgave those who commited these acts. That is why he among other prophets before Him is different. He brought peace and left all the Judging to God. If you are to claim such teaching in the New Testament then by all means show me where. Yes and this is why the church exists and why priests are the only ones who can forgive you your sins on behalf of God, what a myopic view view of things. Add to that the fact you dont actually know what jesus said or did, besides the obvious "I came not to change the law", yet it was changed on his behalf. As for alcohol, it was a gift from God just like pork, shellfish or any other foods or creations. Consume it appropriatly with complete self respect and pleasure as long as no harm is done to you or others around you. Thats my opinion... Christians are not supposed to drink alcohol period, according to there own religion or eat pork [if i remember correctly] but with the fall of christianity so to came the falshoods, "its all good" or so they say. ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 16 October 2007 at 3:57pm
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Anatolian wrote: I completly understand with girls being married early off in that part of the world because I'm originally from that part of the world where it was accepted. My grandmother was 16 when she was married. The times called for it sure. But to marry or engage a girl of 9 is a huge difference between that and early twenties late teens. How does a girl truly mature. Yes the marriage was consumed at 12 years old but still. No matter what society dictates at any time that is rediculous. If Allah gave Muhammed permission to wed her at that age why is that type of "priviledge" not given to the other prophets sent before him. How is that act commited by Muhammed, require Allah to basically send an ok to move forward with it? How does that better your visin of him as a man and a prophet? Would you allow your daughter if you had one to go to man much older then her and wed her to him? Even if he claims to be a messenger of God? Absolutly not?" It seems the mother of your savior was just 12-14 years old when she wed Joseph, who was nearly 90 years old! Hmmm. Strange isn't it? I guess Joseph, the man who would raise Jesus as his own son, was a pedophile, for having married a girl who was at least 75 years younger! All the information is available at the online http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm - Catholic Encyclopedia . Oh, but Anatolian is probably going to object to his brethren using the apocryphal texts for this information, even though the synoptic gospels offer no help on the matter. ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 17 October 2007 at 11:42am
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Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem Pedophilia is a modern term and invention that applies to our time, it is idiotic to even attempt to apply it to an age where the concept itself did not exist. How is a person guilty of something they do not know is wrong, having said that on what authority are we declaring this thing wrong? did anyone in the society at the time object to the marriage or was it a norm and acceptable. Modern society seeks to replace devine rule and commands, if in modern times the age limit needs to be raised becouse by our current standards of education the human mind has not developed enough by the age of 18 [as apposed to 100 years ago] then that is fine since this is what is required to reduce any psychological damage or abuse but any thinking person will easily understand here that the age of 18 is simply an arbitrary number upheld on the advice and expertise of respective doctors in there field relevant to our time alone and based on modern studies of people who lived in our lifetimes not a magic number that is used as a yard stick for all time. ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 17 October 2007 at 11:49pm
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Anatolian, your post was full of wrong ideas. rami has already replied to you very well. I will only reply to the first part of your post shown below: If Allah created man he created him with free thoughts, a conscience, why Please know that there are two types of mistakes. One type is a personal belief, right or wrong. The other is a practical deed. The mistakes of bad or wrong belief will be looked after in the next world by Allah. The crimes or bad deeds of murder and rape etc. have to be looked after here in this world. That would be a test of the society too, whether it is a good society or corrupt society. I hope you understand these things. I believe you are a christian and you believe in the God, the one who created. Creator knows best about his creation, what is good for them and what is bad for them, i.e. the do's and dont's. You and I cannot formulate things for ourselves. WE can only understand and follow the advice given by the Creator God. So please do not make your own rules please.
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