please tell me what is the purpose of life or the purpose behind our existence?

every one is urged to answer especially none muslims.

waiting for response....

Your brother in Islam Khairullah.

Khairullah.  I am both surprised and not so surprised at the lack of response to your questions.  I don't want to disappoint you but I too have no answer.  It is, however, an interesting point.  But, it begs the question: what if there is no divine purpose?  It's a bit like: "What if we are the only intelligent life in the Universe?"  What if God has no purpose for us and the goal of life is to discover that and live with simplicity and decency and honesty? And tolerance? Perhaps our only purpose is to propagate our species, to try to live in harmony, and in some way or another, to try to gain or regain some joy along the way?  In my 50's, I am seeing more beauty in the way that the universe unfolds before me than I have ever done so before.  But perhaps that is because I am looking for it.

I look forward to the continuance of this thread.

C

I would write more, but I honestly can't see the point.

Cassandra

As stated on the main page, this area of IC forum is where Non-Muslims can come to ask questions about Islam.  This area was created for the purpose of discussion that leads to learning and not for debate.  That which is to be learned here...discussed...is Islam and not whatever it is you are trying to espouse here.  As Muslims we believe God created us for a purpose as He did all of the rest of creation and that our highest purpose is to worship Allah who is both our creator and sustainer.  Furthermore, if we do this in a manner that is pleasing to Allah, we will be blessed with a place in Jannah.

To a Muslim, your position is not only incorrect but also one not to be desired.  However, as Muslims, we understand that some humans will not be amongst the believers and the reason for this is that humans have freewill and are allowed to chose rather to believe or not. 

It is interesting that you said, "In my 50's, I am seeing more beauty in the way that the universe unfolds before me than I have ever done so before.  But perhaps that is because I am looking for it."  It appears to me that you are saying that an absence of believing in God or a purpose, allows you to be able to see the beauty of the universe as it unfolds; however, I, as a Muslim, believe that nothing is possible without Allah the Creator and Sustainer of all things...and furthermore, that the very nature that you speak of as if it came out of nothingness is actual a sign of not only His existence but His greatness.  To Muslims, the beauty you see is a message...a sign...from Allah for those who use reason.  The ayat that states this is as follows,

2:164 Verily, in the creation of the heavens and of the earth, and the succession of night and day: and in the ships that speed through the sea with what is useful to man: and in the waters which God sends down from the sky, giving life thereby to the earth after it had, been lifeless, and causing all manner of living creatures to multiply thereon: and in the change of the winds, and the clouds that run their appointed courses between sky and earth: [in all this] there are messages indeed for people who use their reason.

Allahu Akbar...God is Great!!!

Cassandra, as a moderator, I am warning you that if you are not here to help non-Muslims learn about Islam or if you are not here to sincerely learn about Islam, then you should not post on this thread. 

Salam

Sister Khadija

masha Allah Khadija you have given explanation about the purpose of life. but in the next thread i will post another thread for all those none muslims who dont know what the purpose of life is.

 sister Cansandra you said:

 What if God has no purpose for us

this is a fundamental question why would god do something so important when he doesnt have any purpose for it?

please read my next post.

thank you.

As Salamu Alaikum

The most comprehensive answer to this question is this short Ayat from the Glorious Qur'an

Surah Adh-Dhariyat 51:56

�And I created not the Jinn and Mankind except that they should worship ME�

Everything else follows from this Ayat.

Wa Alaikum Salam

Cassandra wrote: I am both surprised and not so surprised at the lack of response to your questions.

Cassie, give people a chance, its not even 12 hours between your reply and the original posters equiry

khairullah wrote:   please tell me what is the purpose of life or the purpose behind our existence? every one is urged to answer especially none muslims. waiting for response.... Your brother in Islam Khairullah.

If you want non muslims response, you going to have to expect non islamic responses.

What is the purpose of life and or purpose behind existence? well, to experience life  I guess one philosophical answer is, that we are a spiritual being, experiencing physical existence. And mostly because we want to. Some say our bodies are merely a shell to our spiritual form. To experience everything is also to experience physical life.

Yes, i know that this isn't islamic, its neither a debate or dicussion (unless the poster wants then it may need to go elsewhere) its just a response from a non muslim, as per the posters request   hehe

Allah is the creator of everything. It is beyond our imagination and explanation how this universe and other universes was created. It is Allah who is the only praiseworthy and to be glorified. Allah loves when his creations glorify Him and pays gratitude to Him for the abundance He has given to His creations and of course, the glory and praise starts only from Allah and ends at Him.

So, human beings are created to glorify, to praise, to worship and to obey Allah. He has set the guidelines through the Holy Quran and through His Messangers about our duty and why we were sent on this earth. Analyzing everything, we understand that Allah loves two things the most which is

1. Allahke waste Ibaadat(worship to Allah and obeying Allah's order)

2. Allahke bandoki khidmat(serving the mankind and our Lord's all creations).

Hope this answers your question.

I would also like to add here that islam is an absolutely perfect religion as it's guidelines are created by Allah, the Almighty. It is never possible that there is no answer to any question raised. Quran has the answer of every thing. It is we, who fail to understand the interpretation of Quran and it is our lack of Knowledge. We read Quran but we fail to implement it's teachings on us. So Quran is not to read only, it is to understand and implement. Whenever any question arises in mind, Alham-do-lillah, go through the Quran and you will surely get the answer. 

I was born as a non Muslim, but about 6 years back, by the grace of Allah, i read about islam and i understood the message of Islam and on that very day i had embraced Islam in the love of Allah. Today, i am proud to be a muslim. We muslims are definitely the blessed ones as our guide is Allah, the Almighty.

thank you brothers and sisters actually i wanted the none muslims to anwer me.

But no problem thanks a lot. By the way see my post The purpose of life.

    To understand the purpose of human life you must examine very closely the life of Jesus Christ.

     Here is a man who expresses God even to the uttermost. Though Him God is defined and manifested. The glory of God is beaming out in His human virtues and His actions express the divine attributes of God.

    He cannot be corrupted by sin. He cannot be destroyed by death. The universe is created unto Him and for Him. And He is the union of the divine and the human. He is the mingling of God and man. He is the "organic" blending of the uncreated Divine Being and the created human being.

   The eternal purpose of God is mass produce many sons like the Firstborn Son. Christ is the standard model. And at the end of the Bible the New Jerusalem is a symbol, being a "city" of sons of God conformed to be like the standard model. They are the mass production of the standard model of God-man, God mingled with man, God united with man, God blended with man, God living in man and man living in God - God and man united to be one entity.

 In this "organic" union of God's life with man's life God remains the Source and Head of the relationship. This is why New Jerusalem as a city is called the Bride and the Wife of the Lamb (the Redeeming God-man Christ).

 For this purpose of having many sons who share His life and nature, God created a universe. Creation was made with this goal in view. And the Leader and Author of this blended relationship of God and man is Jesus Christ.

Alwardah wrote: As Salamu Alaikum   The most comprehensive answer to this question is this short Ayat from the Glorious Qur'an   Surah Adh-Dhariyat 51:56   �And I created not the Jinn and Mankind except that they should worship ME�     Everything else follows from this Ayat.   Wa Alaikum Salam

I agree. The Bible condenses the comprehensive into steps, stating that God created for His pleasure, to manifest Himself, and the end result is that we all worship Him.

Some take offense at the mention of God loving Himself because, to them, narcissism is a fault.  And, for man, it is.  But, God is not a man and cannot be judged by man's standards. 

Both Islam and Christianity teach that we are to love God above all else.  Both recognize that it is because He is worthy.  But, few recognize that it is also because He loves Himself above all.  (They fail to recognize it because, to them, that would be wrong.)  But, why shouldn't He?  He's perfect!

The problem is that man has to learn how to love, period.  Man thinks that loving self means not loving others.  Actually, the reverse is true.  If man doesn't love himself, he can't love others....so he ends up using and abusing others in a misguided effort to satisfy his need to be loved.

   In the Old Testament the worship of God was really feasting together in the place where God put His name. The nation of Israel came together and feasted, ate, and enjoyed the produce of the good land.

 This picture is very meaningful. It shows that the ultimate worship of God is the "eating" of God. Or shall I say that the ultimate worship of God is taking God into our being as our "food".

 When God created man He did not instruct Adam how low to bow or how to utter prayer or any of the things which the natural mind associates easily with religious worship. He only cautioned Adam about what he took into himself as food.

 Should Adam take into him the tree of the knowledge of good and evil he would die. God rather placed man before the tree of life. This signified that God created man to take into his own being the Divine Being of God as eternal life.

 God's eternal purpose is only fulfilled by God dispensing Himself into man's being. Eating signifies taking into oneself that by which he lives and is nourished, sustained, supplied, and equiped. You are what you eat.

 For this reason God came in the God-man Jesus Christ teaching that we should eat Him as the bread of life which came down from heaven. He did not come down by way of a ladder or an elevator. He "came down" by way of His incarnation.

 He said "As the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also shall live because of Me" (John 6:57)

 The worship therefore that God desires is not to simply fear and prostrate before Him objectively as a God out there somewhere. He desires more that He live within us. He desires that we take Him into us. He desires that He dispenses His Spirit into us. This is to "eat" God that we may live by Him for He then lives within us.

  I want my worship and prayer to come out of my taking the Spirit of God into my being. Then not only our praise and singing and prayer is worship. But even our entire living is worship because we "eat" Him as the bread of life and live because of Him.

  Man was created in the image of God to receive God into his being just as a glove is in the image of a human hand so that the hand may fit into the glove.

Mauri wrote: Alwardah wrote: As Salamu Alaikum The most comprehensive answer to this question is this short Ayat from the Glorious Qur'an Surah Adh-Dhariyat 51:56 �And I created not the Jinn and Mankind except that they should worship ME� Everything else follows from this Ayat. Wa Alaikum Salam I agree. The Bible condenses the comprehensive into steps, stating that God created for His pleasure, to manifest Himself, and the end result is that we all worship Him. Some take offense at the mention of God loving Himself because, to them, narcissism is a fault.  And, for man, it is.  But, God is not a man and cannot be judged by man's standards.  Both Islam and Christianity teach that we are to love God above all else.  Both recognize that it is because He is worthy.  But, few recognize that it is also because He loves Himself above all.  (They fail to recognize it because, to them, that would be wrong.)  But, why shouldn't He?  He's perfect! The problem is that man has to learn how to love, period.  Man thinks that loving self means not loving others.  Actually, the reverse is true.  If man doesn't love himself, he can't love others....so he ends up using and abusing others in a misguided effort to satisfy his need to be loved.

Assume I'm an athiest for a moment....

If God is "All-Loving" why create organisms for the purpose of worship only to condemn some of them for exercising an ability (so-called freewill) that he has given them? Isn't it unfair to condemn humans to suffering just because they have no reached a spiritual capacity of understanding or much less choose to not believe in a particular faith in the midst of thousands of others that espouse to be the only true religion?

It would appear you are making God out to be a "big child" with an ant farm that has the power to either allow the farm to thrive or choose to destroy it along with its inhabitants. How would you expect someone to believe in a deity like that?

Israfil wrote: Mauri wrote: Alwardah wrote: As Salamu Alaikum The most comprehensive answer to this question is this short Ayat from the Glorious Qur'an Surah Adh-Dhariyat 51:56 �And I created not the Jinn and Mankind except that they should worship ME� Everything else follows from this Ayat. Wa Alaikum Salam I agree. The Bible condenses the comprehensive into steps, stating that God created for His pleasure, to manifest Himself, and the end result is that we all worship Him. Some take offense at the mention of God loving Himself because, to them, narcissism is a fault.  And, for man, it is.  But, God is not a man and cannot be judged by man's standards.  Both Islam and Christianity teach that we are to love God above all else.  Both recognize that it is because He is worthy.  But, few recognize that it is also because He loves Himself above all.  (They fail to recognize it because, to them, that would be wrong.)  But, why shouldn't He?  He's perfect! The problem is that man has to learn how to love, period.  Man thinks that loving self means not loving others.  Actually, the reverse is true.  If man doesn't love himself, he can't love others....so he ends up using and abusing others in a misguided effort to satisfy his need to be loved. Assume I'm an athiest for a moment.... If God is "All-Loving" why create organisms for the purpose of worship only to condemn some of them for exercising an ability (so-called freewill) that he has given them? Isn't it unfair to condemn humans to suffering just because they have no reached a spiritual capacity of understanding or much less choose to not believe in a particular faith in the midst of thousands of others that espouse to be the only true religion? It would appear you are making God out to be a "big child" with an ant farm that has the power to either allow the farm to thrive or choose to destroy it along with its inhabitants. How would you expect someone to believe in a deity like that?

Assume I'm an athiest for a moment....

okay

If God is "All-Loving" why create organisms for the purpose of worship only to condemn some of them for exercising an ability (so-called freewill) that he has given them?

What reason do you have, as an atheist (or as anything else) for thinking that God condemns anyone?

Isn't it unfair to condemn humans to suffering just because they have no reached a spiritual capacity of understanding or much less choose to not believe in a particular faith in the midst of thousands of others that espouse to be the only true religion?

Is it unfair to condemn a baby to the suffering of being born through the birth canal while other babies are born via Caesarean section?  It might seem that way, but babies born via the birth canal tend to be stronger, healthier babies. 

It would appear you are making God out to be a "big child" with an ant farm that has the power to either allow the farm to thrive or choose to destroy it along with its inhabitants.

It might appear that way to you, but appearances can be quite deceiving.  That�s similar to:  If God can do anything, can He make a rock so heavy that He cannot lift it?

How would you expect someone to believe in a deity like that?

Frankly, I would expect that from anyone who thinks his religion is better than another�not because it is rational, but because religious people tend to be irrational. 

And, personally, I think �atheist� is a misnomer.  Every �atheist� whom I have met believes in truth and the power of truth.  Therefore, I conclude that they have not rejected God, but have only rejected the idea of God propagated by religious groups. 

God does not condemn anyone.  Man does.  When man feels condemned, he projects those feelings on others.  But man cannot admit his own faults (confess his sins), so he blames someone else for those faults and ultimately blames God.  It is man who is unfair, not God.

Welcome jocko....

I am pasting this link for you to read the article regarding the creation of Adam (peace be upon him) http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=13286&ln=eng&txt=Verses%20that%20Adam%20told%20to%20prostrate%20before%20Allah - http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=13286&ln=eng&t xt=Verses%20that%20Adam%20told%20to%20prostrate%20before%20A llah

Also the reason why Allah cursed the SATAN  to enter Hellfire forever.

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=6297&ln=eng&txt=Verses%20that%20Adam%20told%20to%20prostrate%20before%20Allah - http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=6297&ln=eng&tx t=Verses%20that%20Adam%20told%20to%20prostrate%20before%20Al lah

take your time

Here's a few passages from the LDS Scriptures about the Purpose of Life.

Moses 1 wrote: 37 And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine.  38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words.  39 For behold, this is my work and my glory�to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

 While discussing the purpose of our life, please do not forget the idea of usefulness. We should first understand whether our life is meaningful or vain. If there is a purpose in our lives then it is o.k. to try to understand and find out that purpose. That brings us to the topic now. We are then yet at the first step (footstep).

 Life is meaningful. It has a purpose. The point of finding out how life came into being is another important issue. Has the life emerged of itself without any creator or it had a creator who created life??

 That will divide the people into two major groups, the believers in God and the atheists. Mauri does not appear to be right about the atheists believing in god. They do not. That is why they are called atheists.

We leave the atheists aside and come to take side with the believers. God is the creator of all things. The creator knows all the best about His creation. If I make a radio or a Car then I know the best all about those things and their do's and don't's. The others may also have some idea but it could not be as much as I myself know about the things that I designed and made.

 In the end, I can only give the answer that Islam has provided (as has been posted already here) that Allah created the Jinn and mankind for his worship (only). He is the creator and He has told it all. So we believe that.

 If there is no purpose in life then there is no morale. No happiness, no beauty of life. That type of life would be like a boat without a rudder. In the end I may say that the good purpose of life, that is beautiful and comfortable with little suffering is possible only by believing that God/Allah created us for His worship only and by His worship only we can achieve the beauty and comfort of life. No other way.

Why do parents create a child?

Love, nothing better then giving love to a child.

ASA,

Cassandra, everything has a purpose nothing is created by chance or with out great thought behind it. Allah or God creates everything and holds all knowledge to every living thing

There is a great vs. in the Quran' I just can't think of the Ayat vs.# right now off the top of my head someone please help....UGGGH! and I did an entire fall homeschooling lesson about it and took the munchkins on a walk thru the woods by our home......Shame on me

But it says and not in these exact words that Allah knows when every leaf falls from the tree and where it will land because Allah is all knowing. It really is a wonderful vs. I just didn't do it justice....maybe minuteman or someone can update the Surah and Ayat#.....

believer, parents do not create a child Allah creates and plans our entire lives for us before we enter the womb....at the point when the childs heart begins to beat two Angels carry it's soul down from Jannah or Heaven and put it safely into the child.....No doubt the parents provide certain necessary physical building blocks but without Allahs will there would be no child.

LOL!!  You didn't understand my point.

That love the parents feel for their child is the LOVE GOD feels for us.  There is no better thing then giving LOVE.

We are here so GOD can give us LOVE.

Aminah07 wrote: two Angels carry it's soul down from Jannah or Heaven and put it safely into the child

maybe you can explain this in another thread as well as how do the angels put the soul in a child.

I would perfer this in another thread as to not get off topic. 

LOL!!  Muslims can not understand that Christians do worship One True GOD.

Your signature- From Allah we came and to Allah we will return.

I understood that Allah has not assigned paradise for all Muslims.  How can you be sure?  If you are a woman chances are you will be in hell.

 Your last sentence was not good. It was according to the teaching of bible that Eve misled Adam. So all the burden and blame is on the woman. That is not so in Islam.

 The chances are there for many things. But there is surety of those who have three gods (may be in one though) to end up in hell. If there is One God then why to talk of three gods? That talk about one god is due to the pressure from the Old Testament and the Quran. Otherwise the church was bent upon keeping three gods.

Conversely, if there are three gods then why to talk of One God? Believer wants to travel in two boats at once or wants to teach a new mathematics.  But that is all off topic.

 A father god who punishes his innocent son (Jesus) for the sins of others cannot forgive any one and cannot have any love for any one. God is the creator of sin too. So if man has sinned, he can forgive also without punishing. He is all powerful.

 What I mean is: The Crucifixion and killing of Jesus on the cross is cruel act and there is no love in that. So what can any one expect from the god of the bible (NT). Perhaps believer can explain.

I am happy to explain some things as a former Christian.

Although Eve commited a sin and tempted Adam, it was nevertheless necessary for this sin to occur. Adam and Eve were living in the Garden of Eden in paradisical bliss. After the sin, they were forced out of Garden of Eden, and into the outside world. It was only after their exit from the Garden that they experienced all the joys and pains of the world, and also parenthood. So the fall from the grace of God was necessary. If it had not happened then Adam and Eve would still be in the Garden of Eden and the human race would not have been. It is also important to note that Adam was able to talk directly to God whilst in the Garden, and face to face. After exclusion he turned to prayer. This was the only communication he could have with God. Adam and Eve knew exactly what they were doing when they sinned, or 'ate the apple'.

There is only one God in Christianity, not 3 in 1. There is God the Father. Then there is God the Son, or Jesus Christ. Then there is God the Holy Ghost, a different entity. All 3 are joint in their purpose, and are often confused by many to mean that  God is all 3 roles. Again, this is not the case. 

God is the Father of all spiritual souls, including Jesus. It was forordained that Jesus became the saving grace for mankind. All the prophets from Adam and throughout history have been forordained to take on their role as messenger on earth. This was decided in Heaven. Jesus was well aware in Heaven, before His mortal existance, the role He would play on Earth. When any spirit soul is born on earth, all former knowledge of a previous life with God is erased from the mind. Only Adam was excluded from this.  Like I have already said, he lived with Eve in paradise, and could talk to God face to face.  Future prophets had direct communication through prayer. None was permitted to see God  face to face, as this would have resulted indeath. They  might have seen the 'finger of God' as did Moses on Mount Sinai, or in other ways through the Holy Ghost, as in miracles such as the burning bush, or through prayer. The signs they received distinguished them from other people, so that they would be recognised by the people as their leader(prophet). They would have received commandments to guide the people.

Jesus was born to be the greatest prophet of all. At the age of 12 he disappeared for 3days, whilst in Jerusalem causing anguish to Mary and Joseph. He was found in the Temple. When asked why he was there, he replied How is it that you sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?(Luke 2:49) So this would suggest that he, Jesus, knew who he was. Mary and Joseph already knew who he was. Mary obviously knew, because of the visitation of the angel Gabriel concerning the Virgin birth. Joseph would have known also, hence the reason he continued with his marriage to Mary. In those days, any pregnant woman before marriage, would have been shunned. Although there is no account that Joseph received his own message concerning the Virgin Birth, it is most likely that he would have done so. 

At the age of 30years, Jesus started his ministry. At 33 he was crucified. It is important to note that Jesus knew his purpose and the forthcoming cruxifiction. It was a necessary part of God's plan, and one he would have agreed to before his earthly life. Christians believe that baptism is a necessary part of the plan to return to heaven.Jesus also needed to be baptised. It was also necessary for a 'Saviour' to give the ultimate sacrifice for all the sins of the world, so that all people would not suffer an eternal death, if they were baptised and repented of their sins throughout their mortal life. Like the fall of Adam was forordained, so was the cruxifiction of Jesus.

God did not punish His son, nor at any time forgot him. In the Garden of Gethsemane,shortly before his arrest, Jesus prayed to the Father(God) Saying, Father,if thou be willing remove this cup(task)from me;nevertheless not my will, but thine be done. And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in agony he prayed more earnestly:and his sweat as as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. (St Luke 22;42,42) This clearly indicates the relationship Jesus had with his God. Whilst on the cross, Jesus suffered the most unimaginable pain. For a brief moment he felt despair, and thought God had deserted him.  And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying. Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?(St Matthew 27:46) This scripture can be misinterpreted. A reader could argue that God had deserted him, but it is most likely that God turned away for a moment, in pain at His Sons suffering. Like any mortal parent that sees his/her child in pain, so it is possible that God would also have felt this.

If anyone can doubt the relationship of Jeus and God, he can read the following in the Bible, when Jesus was praying in Gethsemane, shortly before he was betrayed by Judas and arrested. These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven. and said, Father,the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou has given him. And this is life eternal that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were. and thou gavest them me: and they have kept thy word. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given are of thee. For I have given unto them the words that thou gavest me;and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they believed that thou didst send me. (St John 17:1-8)               This clearly shows that Jesus is not God the Father, but God the Son. And that the people believed him to be the Messiah.

The Holy Ghost is the 3rd member of theGodhead, and as the name implies, a personage of Spirit not possessing a body of flesh or bones. The Holy Ghost has been manifest since the beginning, being first made known to Adam. It can also be known as the Holy Spirit, Spirit of God, Spirit of the Lord, Comforter, and Spirit. Its purpose is to bring truth to all mankind.

believer. I trust this is satisfactory. As for Allah not assigning Heaven to all muslims, well, as minuteman has explained, Heaven waits for those worthy of the reward. that also applies to Christians. Allah is the same God you worship. The difference between muslims and Christians lies with the existance of Jesus being the Son of God or not. Muslims use the Old Testament, and believe in the same prophets of old as do the Christians. Muslims recognise Jesus as a messenger of God. As indeed he was.

regarding Christianity and prophets throughout history. According to most Christian religions, the final prophet was Jesus. How does this work then? If God always felt prophets necessary to guide the people, then why does God not feel the need to continue to have prophets in this present day. Surely, in these final days of earth, it is just as vital to have a prophet to guide the people, in fact possibly  more so?

believer wrote: LOL!!  Muslims can not understand that Christians do worship One True GOD. Your signature- From Allah we came and to Allah we will return. I understood that Allah has not assigned paradise for all Muslims.  How can you be sure?  If you are a woman chances are you will be in hell.

We live in the same universe, in the same planet, breathe the same air, drink the same water and so on, in actual fact, there is only One sole Provider that provides all the necessities of life.

There can only be One God AlMighty that created the furthest of the planet or the tiniest of the veins. The God that Adam prayed to, that Abraham prostrated to, that Moses spoke to, that Jesus kneeled to, that Muhammad submitted to.

Associating God with His creation is an insult to HIS MAJESTY.

Don't you agree?

the purpose of our existence is?..................let's continue with that  

Wait - I know that either in the Quran or in hadith there is something about Hell having more women in it!  Where is that saying?

Mohammed said, "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers are women."

It was in a hadith.  Yes go back to the topic.  My answer right before going off topic:

That love the parents feel for their child is the LOVE GOD feels for us.  There is no better thing then giving LOVE.

We are here so GOD can give us LOVE

believer wrote: Wait - I know that either in the Quran or in hadith there is something about Hell having more women in it!  Where is that saying? Mohammed said, "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers are women." It was in a hadith.  Yes go back to the topic.  My answer right before going off topic: That love the parents feel for their child is the LOVE GOD feels for us.  There is no better thing then giving LOVE. We are here so GOD can give us LOVE

 Believer has told his side of belief in a nice way. The news about women in hell is also correct because it is reported in a Hadith (No need to go after that Hadith unless very necessary).

The believer believes in LOVE more than anything else. So we should love the beliefs and the believer. That will settle the issue (topic) of our creation. Love is quite important. But should not be uncontrolled love of anything. The love should be all encompassing, not just a love for a special race or class of people only.

There is need for Justice. Need for Balance too. Nobody should be punished for the sins of others.

 Now coming to topic seriously, it is mentioned in the Quran, " And we have not created the Jinn and Ins (Jinn and mankind) for any purpose except for Our service (worship)." That is from the Quran and reference can be provided.

 Now I feel necessary that the believer should also present some clear verse of the bible which says that God did not create the mankind except for His love. Otherwise it will be understood that it was his own feeling (formula) and not any teaching of Jesus a.s. Thanks.

believer wrote: That love the parents feel for their child is the LOVE GOD feels for us.  There is no better thing then giving LOVE. We are here so GOD can give us LOVE

Indeed Believer, God is very Loving. He loves us so much that He would not want to see any of His servants without salvation. He sent His Messengers and His Holy scriptures as a guide to seek Him.

And how do we reciprocate His Love? By putting Him in a stone and worshiping Him? By associating Him with a man that He created? To me that is an insult to His Love and to His Majesty.

Nur_Ilahi,

What do you mean by this statement? can you please explain.

 And how do we reciprocate His Love? By putting Him in a stone and worshiping Him? By associating Him with a man that He created? To me that is an insult to His Love and to His Majesty

Agape - unconditional LOVE.  But that does not mean that a payment must not be made for sins, bad deeds commited.  A debt must be paid.

LOL!!  Are we getting off topic again?

God gave us rule over all creatures.

Genesis 1

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." 

--------------------------------

Would GOD bless those if He did not love them?

Genesis 1

 28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

 ------------------------

Psalms 8

believer wrote: Agape - unconditional LOVE.  But that does not mean that a payment must not be made for sins, bad deeds commited.  A debt must be paid.

 Dear Believer, it is true that we all love the God (We call Him Allah) and He loves us. Where as the love of the christians God (Abb ie. father) may be limited to one man, his son Jesus, or at the most to the people, the Love of Allah (Rabb) is far widespread. It encompasses the entire creation, dead or alive, material or spiritual, past or present, on earth or in the universe.

 Allah is the Rabb. He is nourishing (supporting) everything to progress and perfection. Please see the very first verse of the Quran (V. 1:1). He is the Rabb (not Abb) of the sickness and diseases, of ideas, of repltiles, seas, oceans, volcanoes and storms, bodies and souls. Rabb has got the full qualities of Abb in it and even much more than that. Because what a Rabb can do, the father cannot do.

 You said, "A debt must be paid."  There is no need to punish any one for the crime of another person. There is no need to punish. Allah is forgiving and Merciful. He can forgive sins. Only, we have to repent. That is necessary. We have to repent. That was the lesson of John the baptist and also the lesson from Jesus. Man needs to repent.

 Do you believe that a man can forgive the sin or crime of another man but the God cannot forgive any one without punishing him?? That is not right. God can always fogive the greatest sin in a twinkling of an eye. Peace and blessings for you. Thanks.

martha wrote:  And how do we reciprocate His Love? By putting Him in a stone and worshiping Him? By associating Him with a man that He created? To me that is an insult to His Love and to His Majesty

Salam dear Martha,

Whatever we see in this world whether past or present are just creations of the Creator. From the furthest of the planets, to the tiniest of the veins or the minutest of a DNA. We can see His Majesty, We can observe His Power, we can talk to Him, sometimes we can even hear His words. We can feel His Love, but We cannot see Him physically. If we can see Him physically, then there is no purpose of Heaven where one has to strive to get there to see Him personally.

For me, God AlMighty has got no parallels, no match, nothing similar, nothing comparable. He created the stones, He created Men, it is not befitting for such MAJESTY to be placed in an inanimate object like the idols, or in the shape of a man, who himself needed his mother for a living.

To me a Supreme Being that is worthy of worship, does not need anything, nor anyone. He is Al-Hayy, - The Living, He is Al-Awwal, and He is Al-Akhir - The Last.

Am I being too harsh? If I am, please forgive me.

Salam.

Salaams Nur-Ilahi,

I totally agree with your above post.

And I can now see that you were trying to explain 'idols' when refering to 'putting a man in stone'

Thankyou for your very nice, heartfelt post

Who said we only love Jesus, or GOD only loves Jesus?

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Yes, we all must repent every day for sins we have commited and for those we don't even realize!!  We can never repent enough to erase all of our own personal sins.  GOD is so holy and righteous that we can never come close to Him without Jesus.  With Jesus we can fight the sin, the temptation is much less.  We can put on the armor of Jesus

You are correct this is not right- Do you believe that a man can forgive the sin or crime of another man but the God cannot forgive any one without punishing him?? That is not right.

So in Islam there is no hell?  That brings us back to all the women in hell!!  LOL!!

Nur-Ilahi - Yes!!  GOD does not need anything. 

He desires a relationship with us.

GOD didn't need to come to earth in human form.  He wanted to!!  Jesus is just one manifestation of GOD.

GOD is ONE!!

Praise GOD from whom all blessings flow!!

believer wrote: GOD didn't need to come to earth in human form.  He wanted to!!  Jesus is just one manifestation of GOD.

The question is why Jesus? And why must he die? Sorry if I am being blunt, but dying on a cross shows a weak god, a helpless god, How are we to respect someone that we want to hold on to, to put all our hopes for the hereafter if he had shown his weakness.

Astaghfirullah - I seek forgiveness from Allah - ALLAHUAKBAR - ALLAH IS GREAT! It is impossible that He is weak, It is impossible that He dies.

Looking at the brightness of the sun, we can see the manifestation of God's power, looking at the rain falling, we can see the manifestation of His Rahmah or Mercy, looking at a mother suckling her baby with love is a manifestation of God's Love, looking at the tiniest of the veins in a brain, is a manifestation of His intellect. There are indeed many more of His manifestation that He showed us and many of us are too blind (spiritual myopia like someone mentioned).

Jesus was just a prophet, a creation of God, like you and me.

purpose behind the existence to is realize that you exist

not lead your life like zombie

Nur-Ilahi-  Yes GOD is omnipresent.  GOD did not need the help of Jesus.  We need the help of Jesus. 

There is a big difference, Muslims don't seem to understand that we believe in One True GOD, Jesus is a manifestation of that same ONE True GOD.

In Islam no one is assured of salvation.  No matter how much you pray how many good deeds.  Have you done enough good deeds?  Are you righteous enough?

I am not.  Only through Christ, my faith and repentance can I come colse to being worthy of coming to GOD.    

  Believer. That is not true. I post a few verses of the Quran here for you. These are the words of God.

believer wrote: I am not.  Only through Christ, my faith and repentance can I come colse to being worthy of coming to GOD.

Dear believer,

Then you do not understnd the extent of God's love. As I said before, God created us without the assistance of anyone in between. He just said 'BE!' and 'BE IT!".

Also I mentioned that the biggest act of God's love is sending HIS Prophets and Messengers as well as holy scriptures as a guide to mankind in finding Him. Yes you can find salvation in following the footsteps of Jesus, but not in worshipping him nor thru him. And he was not the only one messenger or prophets that God sent. We have to follow the latest messenger or prophet as he brought the latest tidings from God. And the last messenger was Muhammad and the last holy scripture, is Al-Quran.

In fact all the messengers and prophets of God only worship the ONE TRUE GOD without any intermediary whatsoever. Why when come to Jesus humans must go to God thru him? There is nothing so special about Jesus. His teachings were basically the same with all the teachings of the prophets sent to mankind by God AlMighty. It was men who changed the scriptures to suit their ego or men led by Satan to lead the innocents away from truth and away from the ONE TRUE GOD who created the whole universe.

Can men corrupt the WORD of GOD?

Jesus is GOD incarnate.  A manifestation of GOD - that is why He is so special. 

I apologize, I was not clear.  Yes we can speak with GOD everyday, anyday on our own.  There are no reasons for a go between.

I am talking about after this life.  You can choose to try and reach heaven to be with GOD on your own, but you will never be holy enough, have done enough good deeds, lead a righteous enough life, etc.

Jesus teaching were very different then Mohammad's. 

GOD forbid you are female, chances are you will not reach heaven in Islam.  Through Jesus anyone can enter heaven.  Faith and repentance.

Can men corrupt the WORD of GOD?

Indeed men can. The Bible is a good example.

Jesus is GOD incarnate.  A manifestation of GOD - that is why He is so special. 

If Christians think that Jesus is God incarnate, then Buddhists think that Buddha is their god incarnate, then Hindus think that their Krishna is their god incarnate. Why should God incarnate in a creation of His? How could we place a SUPREME BEING FULL OF MAJESTY in an animate object that can give no benefits whatsoever to human being?

If you think Jesus who died on a cross looking so very very sorry and full of weakness is so special, then you have to think again. A SUPREME BEING IS SUPPOSED TO BE STRONG and ETERNAL not weak and defenceless.

I apologize, I was not clear.  Yes we can speak with GOD everyday, anyday on our own.  There are no reasons for a go between.

Then why should we need Jesus for salvation? The jobs of the prophets is to show us the way to God. Lighting up the path to God. We have to tread this path ourselves. Follow their footsteps that lead the way to Salvation. Not thru them do we worship God. There is no hijab or obstacles between us and God. This is fair to all of His Servants who wants to seek Him.

I am talking about after this life.  You can choose to try and reach heaven to be with GOD on your own, but you will never be holy enough, have done enough good deeds, lead a righteous enough life, etc.

As I said you do not understand the meaning of Al-Rahman and Al-Raheem. The Most Compassionate, The Most Merciful. He is God Al-Ghafur � The Most Forgiving. He is God At-Tawwab � The Accepter of Repentence. He gives us sustenance and everything that we need in this world, how do we say �thank you boss� ? By worshipping a stone, an idol, a statue � anything that He created? How ungrateful can we be?

Jesus teaching were very different then Mohammad's.  The real teachings of Jesus was definitely similar to Muhammad. First and foremost, he taught the monotheism of God � THE ONENESS OF GOD. Without any associates whatsoever.

GOD forbid you are female, chances are you will not reach heaven in Islam.  Through Jesus anyone can enter heaven.  Faith and repentance. � I wish that you can back up these words with solid proof whether in the Quran or Sunnah. I believe in the the Justice of God as He is Al-Adl � The Most Fair. There will not be any human being without women and there will no be any human being either without men.

And what did Muhammad said about women? Women are the twin halves of men.

The world and all things in it are valuable; but the most valuable thing in the world is a virtuous woman.

The best women are the virtuous; they are the most affectionate to infants, and the most careful of their husband's property.

When a woman performeth the five times of prayer, and fasteth the month of Ramadan, and is chaste, and is not disobedient to her husband, then tell her to enter Paradise by whichever door she liketh.

Salam.

 Excellent reply to the believer by Nur_Ilahi.. We honor Jesus from the bottom of our heart, and his mother and his disciples. But we do not believe that he is a god. There are many prophets, But none of them is a god. We do not want to argue or debate in these matters and no dishonor to any christian. With due respect, all our main beliefs are contained in the Quran. Any one can see them.

So you say that the Quran is corrupt too?  You are the first Muslim to ever admit that.   

Well of course the best women are virtuous!  Mohammad may have said there were virtuous women, did he say most women are? 

Mohammed said, "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers are women."

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 28:

Volume 2, Book 18, Number 161:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin Abbas:

The sun eclipsed in the life-time of the Prophet (p.b.u.h) . Allah's Apostle offered the eclipse prayer and stood for a long period equal to the period in which one could recite Surat-al-Baqara. Then he bowed for a long time and then stood up for a long period which was shorter than that of the first standing, then bowed again for a long time but for a shorter period than the first; then he prostrated twice and then stood up for a long period which was shorter than that of the first standing; then he bowed for a long time which was shorter than the previous one, and then he raised his head and stood up for a long period which was shorter than the first standing, then he bowed for a long time which was shorter than the first bowing, and then prostrated (twice) and finished the prayer. By then, the sun (eclipse) had cleared. The Prophet then said, "The sun and the moon are two of the signs of Allah. They eclipse neither because of the death of somebody nor because of his life (i.e. birth). So when you see them, remember Allah." The people say, "O Allah's Apostle! We saw you taking something from your place and then we saw you retreating." The Prophet replied, "I saw Paradise and stretched my hands towards a bunch (of its fruits) and had I taken it, you would have eaten from it as long as the world remains. I also saw the Hell-fire and I had never seen such a horrible sight. I saw that most of the inhabitants were women." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! Why is it so?" The Prophet replied, "Because of their ungratefulness." It was asked whether they are ungrateful to Allah. The Prophet said, "They are ungrateful to their companions of life (husbands) and ungrateful to good deeds. If you are benevolent to one of them throughout the life and if she sees anything (undesirable) in you, she will say, 'I have never had any good from you.' "

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 124:

Narrated Usama:

The Prophet said, "I stood at the gate of Paradise and saw that the majority of the people who entered it were the poor, while the wealthy were stopped at the gate (for the accounts). But the companions of the Fire were ordered to be taken to the Fire. Then I stood at the gate of the Fire and saw that the majority of those who entered it were women."

---

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 125:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin Abbas:

During the lifetime of Allah's Apostle, the sun eclipsed. Allah's Apostle offered the prayer of (the) eclipse) and so did the people along with him. He performed a long Qiyam (standing posture) during which Surat-al-Baqara could have been recited; then he performed a pro-longed bowing, then raised his head and stood for a long time which was slightly less than that of the first Qiyam (and recited Qur'an). Then he performed a prolonged bowing again but the period was shorter than the period of the first bowing, then he stood up and then prostrated. Again he stood up, but this time the period of standing was less than the first standing. Then he performed a prolonged bowing but of a lesser duration than the first, then he stood up again for a long time but for a lesser duration than the first. Then he performed a prolonged bowing but of lesser duration than the first, and then he again stood up, and then prostrated and then finished his prayer. By then the sun eclipse had cleared. The Prophet then said, "The sun and the moon are two signs among the signs of Allah, and they do not eclipse because of the death or birth of someone, so when you observe the eclipse, remember Allah (offer the eclipse prayer)." They (the people) said, "O Allah's Apostle! We saw you stretching your hand to take something at this place of yours, then we saw you stepping backward." He said, "I saw Paradise (or Paradise was shown to me), and I stretched my hand to pluck a bunch (of grapes), and had I plucked it, you would have eaten of it as long as this world exists. Then I saw the (Hell) Fire, and I have never before, seen such a horrible sight as that, and I saw that the majority of its dwellers were women." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the reason for that?" He replied, "Because of their ungratefulness." It was said. "Do they disbelieve in Allah (are they ungrateful to Allah)?" He replied, "They are not thankful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors done to them. Even if you do good to one of them all your life, when she seems some harshness from you, she will say, "I have never seen any good from you.' "

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 126:

Narrated Imran:

The Prophet said, "I looked at Paradise and saw that the majority of its residents were the poor; and I looked at the (Hell) Fire and saw that the majority of its residents were women."

Believer,

What we should remember is that there are many women who constantly berate their husbands, even if he does his best. This kind of woman surely would not be entitled to a place in Heaven, regardless of her religion. I would also say that a man who does not appreciate a wife who is blameless, will also not be permitted in Heaven.

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 126:

Narrated Imran:

The Prophet said, "I looked at Paradise and saw that the majority of its residents were the poor; and I looked at the (Hell) Fire and saw that the majority of its residents were women."

When a person dies, and is permitted to Heaven, all his worldy goods are just that, and will not go with him. The majority of Hell's residents being women, is due to the fact that they constantly complained in this life, with no just cause.

Are there any Buddhist or Hindu on this forum? -that could be a good discussion.  Jesus was all about equality it shows in His parables.  Krishna never disputed the caste system.

Any true believer of Islam will tell you that the caste system does not exist on earth or Heaven. Only misguided human beings, pressured by culture, will take caste and worldly goods into consideration. Sad but true.

I dont think there is a limit to how many husbands a woman can have, providing of course she only takes one at a time. Liz Taylor has done pretty well for herself, as has Zsa Zsa Gabor.( and many more no doubt) 

 

believer wrote: Volume 1, Book 2, Number 28: Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you." Volume 2, Book 18, Number 161: Narrated 'Abdullah bin Abbas: The sun eclipsed in the life-time of the Prophet (p.b.u.h) . Allah's Apostle offered the eclipse prayer and stood for a long period equal to the period in which one could recite Surat-al-Baqara. Then he bowed for a long time and then stood up for a long period which was shorter than that of the first standing, then bowed again for a long time but for a shorter period than the first; then he prostrated twice and then stood up for a long period which was shorter than that of the first standing; then he bowed for a long time which was shorter than the previous one, and then he raised his head and stood up for a long period which was shorter than the first standing, then he bowed for a long time which was shorter than the first bowing, and then prostrated (twice) and finished the prayer. By then, the sun (eclipse) had cleared. The Prophet then said, "The sun and the moon are two of the signs of Allah. They eclipse neither because of the death of somebody nor because of his life (i.e. birth). So when you see them, remember Allah." The people say, "O Allah's Apostle! We saw you taking something from your place and then we saw you retreating." The Prophet replied, "I saw Paradise and stretched my hands towards a bunch (of its fruits) and had I taken it, you would have eaten from it as long as the world remains. I also saw the Hell-fire and I had never seen such a horrible sight. I saw that most of the inhabitants were women." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! Why is it so?" The Prophet replied, "Because of their ungratefulness." It was asked whether they are ungrateful to Allah. The Prophet said, "They are ungrateful to their companions of life (husbands) and ungrateful to good deeds. If you are benevolent to one of them throughout the life and if she sees anything (undesirable) in you, she will say, 'I have never had any good from you.' " Volume 7, Book 62, Number 124: Narrated Usama: The Prophet said, "I stood at the gate of Paradise and saw that the majority of the people who entered it were the poor, while the wealthy were stopped at the gate (for the accounts). But the companions of the Fire were ordered to be taken to the Fire. Then I stood at the gate of the Fire and saw that the majority of those who entered it were women." Volume 7, Book 62, Number 125: Narrated 'Abdullah bin Abbas: During the lifetime of Allah's Apostle, the sun eclipsed. Allah's Apostle offered the prayer of (the) eclipse) and so did the people along with him. He performed a long Qiyam (standing posture) during which Surat-al-Baqara could have been recited; then he performed a pro-longed bowing, then raised his head and stood for a long time which was slightly less than that of the first Qiyam (and recited Qur'an). Then he performed a prolonged bowing again but the period was shorter than the period of the first bowing, then he stood up and then prostrated. Again he stood up, but this time the period of standing was less than the first standing. Then he performed a prolonged bowing but of a lesser duration than the first, then he stood up again for a long time but for a lesser duration than the first. Then he performed a prolonged bowing but of lesser duration than the first, and then he again stood up, and then prostrated and then finished his prayer. By then the sun eclipse had cleared. The Prophet then said, "The sun and the moon are two signs among the signs of Allah, and they do not eclipse because of the death or birth of someone, so when you observe the eclipse, remember Allah (offer the eclipse prayer)." They (the people) said, "O Allah's Apostle! We saw you stretching your hand to take something at this place of yours, then we saw you stepping backward." He said, "I saw Paradise (or Paradise was shown to me), and I stretched my hand to pluck a bunch (of grapes), and had I plucked it, you would have eaten of it as long as this world exists. Then I saw the (Hell) Fire, and I have never before, seen such a horrible sight as that, and I saw that the majority of its dwellers were women." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the reason for that?" He replied, "Because of their ungratefulness." It was said. "Do they disbelieve in Allah (are they ungrateful to Allah)?" He replied, "They are not thankful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors done to them. Even if you do good to one of them all your life, when she seems some harshness from you, she will say, "I have never seen any good from you.' " Volume 7, Book 62, Number 126: Narrated Imran: The Prophet said, "I looked at Paradise and saw that the majority of its residents were the poor; and I looked at the (Hell) Fire and saw that the majority of its residents were women."

I think a disclaimer first, I mean no respect or offence. But this is a very male dominated thing, from a male dominated society & man run religion. This puts or paints women in a negative view one that men will see to exploit women as a lesser being. Since it is already mentioned in the verses that majority of women are in the hell fire its (something I don't believe in personally) set it up for others to put women down and treat them less than with equality.

martha wrote: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 126: Narrated Imran: The Prophet said, "I looked at Paradise and saw that the majority of its residents were the poor; and I looked at the (Hell) Fire and saw that the majority of its residents were women." When a person dies, and is permitted to Heaven, all his worldy goods are just that, and will not go with him. The majority of Hell's residents being women, is due to the fact that they constantly complained in this life, with no just cause.

that is just as bad!

sorry for going of topic.