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How Best to Explain Complicated Surah's

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Sane Centrist View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 April 2016 at 7:19pm
Hello everyone,

I am new, this is my first post, and I would like to start out by saying that if there are any words or questions that I ask that offend anyone please do not take offense as I am new, I am learning, and that I have only the best intentions.

Lately I have been spending a great deal of time in political forums, and talking with average people from all walks of life, and I have been engaged in many discussions recently regarding Islam & Muslims. (in a positive way)

I have only had good experiences with Muslims, and I am quite amazed & saddened at the negative attitudes that persists in certain parts of the country because of what we see happening abroad.

The thing I find the most disturbing is how people that know nothing about the Quran, or Islam, or Muslims speak about many versus from the Quran in an incorrect way.

I keep reminding these people (although I am no expert myself in these matters) how there are "qualifiers" sometimes before & after these versus that better explain them, and that people should take the time to read these "qualifiers" or better educate themselves on the Quran before professing to know it's meanings.

I would greatly appreciate it if some of the more astute members in here regarding this subject could instruct me on what exactly would be the best way to explain some of these more complicated versus like: (2:191-193) which is probably the one verse that everyone on the planet references when they're trying to portray Islam in a negative light.

Any & all answers would be greatly welcomed.   

Edited by Sane Centrist - 14 April 2016 at 7:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ringer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 April 2016 at 5:20pm
Perhaps the simplest way to deal with people taking things out of context is to research the fuller context and offer (e.g., post) that information.

This is especially true with something like the Qur'an where it's all available online.

If you are posting it for English speaking people then my favorite site is http://www.islamawakened.com/index.php/qur-an  where you will find more than 40 translations (pretty much all of them) available.

The Arabic, transliterations, audio and links to other languages are there also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sane Centrist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2016 at 11:58am
Thank you so much Ringer,

I will definitely give that web site a try, and I will research it further.

I'm sure Ill be able to open a few hearts & minds but unfortunately there will always be the few that I'll never be able to reach.

Thanks again.......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ringer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2016 at 6:50pm
And there is also the possibility the fuller context will make things worse than you suspect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sane Centrist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2016 at 8:25pm
What I have come to realize is that close minded people will not accept anything you present them with.

Open minded people who are willing to see the other side to a point or argument often accept what is being presented.

I can't help but notice that there are very little replies to most of the posts in not only this forum that discusses these issues, but in most of the other major Muslim/Islamic forums as well, and I don't know if that's a cultural thing or if people are just un-interested in discussing certain issues.

Thank you for the replies, and I hope others feel comfortable enough to join in if they wish to.

Edited by Sane Centrist - 28 April 2016 at 8:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ringer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2016 at 10:21am
I don't know the reason (either) and have not (yet) spent much time discussing the Qur'an online, here or elsewhere.

However, from what I can tell this is a fairly open site, where people can and do disagree without getting automatically banned, and also were people seem to be (mostly) polite about those disagreements.

One problem may be that the Qur'an itself instructs the believer not to question it.

Another may be that the numerous inconsistencies a logical, straightforward reading of the Qur'an offer are impossible for a believer to even consider while remaining a believer.

Many sources indicate that most Muslims haven't actually read the Qur'an (in a language they understand fluently) and that this is not encouraged by religious authorities for the general public (Umma.)

This may or may not be true -- I am reporting what has been published.

Also it is said that only a minority of believers speak Arabic fluently, and very few of those know the Qur'anic/Religious/Archaic version of the Qur'an.

The Qur'an is largely jumbled and incoherent to a modern reader unless read in companion with an exegesis or tafsir (i.e., an explanation of scripture.)

Much of the Qur'an presumes the reader knows the Biblical stories (both of the Jews and Christians) and current affairs of Mecca, Medina, and the surrounding Arabian milieu during the time of Muhammad.

These stories were apparently in circulation -- remember, the Bible was at that time one of the few books in existence anywhere in the world (thus Christians and Jews are known as "The people of THE Book" -- Bible literally is a synonym for book also.  Even though there probably were few if any copies of the Bible 'books' in the Hejaz, there were various people who told these stories including for entertainment at fairs and such.  (No TV, not pulp fiction -- Arabic poetry and such stories were pretty much the only forms of "literary entertainment".)

You may have read that Khadija's (Muhammad's first wife) had a cousin Waraka ibn Nawfal (although Waraqah is a better spelling) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waraka_ibn_Nawfal who was said by some accounts to have been a Nestorian (Christian sect) priest or a Hanif (Arabian monotheist).

Wikipedia reports, <He [Waraqah] studied the Bible under Jews and Christians and read an Arabic translation of the New Testament.[4] He also "wrote the New Testament in Arabic,"...>

Khadija went (or took Muhammad) to Waraqah almost immediately after Muhammad's first visions for help in explaining the event.

Waraqa was also a cousin of Muhammed (though Khadija refers to him as Muhammad's uncle -- likely an honorific as Waraqah was an older, educated man, and actually died very shortly after this first event.)

Muhammad and Waraqah had interacted on other occasions (starting from Muhammad's early childhood) and had additional connections according to the early sources.  Also, Mecca had a population of only about 5000 people at that time so most well known people would be known to many/most others.

From a non-religious perspective it is quite likely that Muhammad learned (some of) the "Bible stories" from these sources even though there is some evidence that the claims of Muhammad being illiterate are incorrect.  This includes likely mistranslations of the word "read" when he responded that he could not read, or didn't know what to read.

This is the best secular explanation of the mistakes the Qur'an makes in recounting these "Bible stories" (though Muhammad & the Qur'an generally attribute such mistakes to the 'Jews changing their scripture' -- this is demonstrably false since we now have archeological evidence showing the Old Testament or Torah going back unchanged for thousands of years and the New Testament or Gospels being the same for 400+ years at the time of Muhammad.)






Edited by Ringer - 05 May 2016 at 4:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sane Centrist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2016 at 2:14pm
Very well written, and very useful information.

    Thanks again, all of this is really good stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ringer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2016 at 4:26pm
Thank you for the kind words.

FYI: I edited a few typos in that post above but did not make any material changes to the ideas.
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