hey heres an idea!

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   Actually, in Arabic, Jerusalem is "al quds", the holy.  Ask anyone who lives there.

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ummziba Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Female Joined: 16 March 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1158	Post Options Post Reply Quote ummziba Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 December 2005 at 6:35pm
	Actually, in Arabic, Jerusalem is "al quds", the holy. Ask anyone who lives there.
	Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~

Whisper Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Male Joined: 25 July 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4752	Post Options Post Reply Quote Whisper Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 December 2005 at 2:19pm
	It would definitely be interesting to know the response from my Christian brothers. Yaar, who are you accusing of being Christian here? I mean before Andrea and Angela arrived.

AhmadJoyia Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647	Post Options Post Reply Quote AhmadJoyia Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 December 2005 at 4:21pm
	I got your point, Bro Whisper, though the originator of this topic is one such example.

AhmadJoyia Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647	Post Options Post Reply Quote AhmadJoyia Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 December 2005 at 4:49pm
	Sis Angela, thanks for your further elaboration. Though out of the scope of this topic, but I can't go without asking as what do you mean by "But, in Jerusalem, he sealed his new covenant and triumphed over death. " Which new covenant are you talking about, especially once we read from Bible that Jesus came not to change but to fulfill the law. Therefore bringing new covenant in picture, is as what I said, changing mind in the last hour. I didn't see the answer to this question of mine, in your reply. The second point here as you said, is "triumphed over death". How is this achieved uniquely, which no other could do? I mean, in his life time, Jesus used to raise the dead to life by his God's permission. Then what is big deal as what you think that he rose from dead. Don't you think God could do the same for him as well? Even this raising of dead is not unique to Jesus only, where OT also mentions some incidences of Prophets doing the same miracle. But all, through the will of God only. On the more, which day is the day of Easter celebrations? The Friday (when supposedly the Christ was crucified) or Sunday (when he was resurrected alive)? It is really hard, for a person like me, to understand the celebrations of one day over the other, though only my Christian bro/sis may make this understand. Or, may be whole of the weekend, from Friday to Sunday is the celebrations. Yes, on a shorter note, who else would have joined you in these days of celebrations other than those Jews who conspired against Jesus as well? Just think about it. This shall be even more interesting to know, than imagined. In the end, I can't leave my post without discussing when you say " Jesus in this respect was no different. He to had to be tested.". Isn't this purely a human phenomena, totally in contrast to any divinity associated with him? "This statement confuses me totally given the last 1400 years in that region?" Though you are not alone, but the presented discussion needs logical refutation and not the emotional one. I am anxiously waiting for such a response from any religious quarters. Edited by AhmadJoyia

AhmadJoyia Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647	Post Options Post Reply Quote AhmadJoyia Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 December 2005 at 5:14pm
	Thanks sis Andrea for sharing your comments. I am anxiously looking forward to the reference from the Bible when you say "But there is one part in the bible that says that if you don't believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, then your whole faith is for nothing." On the more, this picture is totally opposite (180 degree) when we see in the same bible (Matthew narration), how Jesus was preparing to avert this last hour situation. He was preparing with his materialistic (disciples to watch) as well as spiritualistic (prayers to God) means to avoid this. Kindly refer back to my posting on the 2nd page where this whole incidence is quoted. If it is true as you ask us to beleive, why would he be so defensive or in other words reluctant to go for scrafice. It seems that he wasn't prepared for it as he his prayer to God clearly shows. On the same note, kindly note as what Bible records his last few words on the cross before crucifiction. Here it is "⁴⁶About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi,^[a] lama sabachthani?"�which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"^[" In view of all this evidence, contrary to your emotional beliefs, Jesus never planned nor did he ever professed that he came to atone the sins of others. However, it is totally a differnt understanding, once we find that he came to wash our sins (our own sins) by guiding us to the striaght path through our own efforts. Every one bears his own sins and hence are responsible for that. This is the law of nature, as this is the most just plan by the God. Edited by AhmadJoyia