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Is the Bible Still the Word of God?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Friendship Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2015 at 5:50am
Honeto!

You should not engage in the confusion between Torah and Bible. I have just learned that the Torah is a sheet of about 14 inches by 14 inches. Jesus son of Maryam explained his mission in Matthew 5. I asked the Jews why there is no mention of the then Children of Israel calling Ezra the son of Allah. They could not reply me. I guessed that is because they do not believe that Allah could have a son.  Moreover that incident could be around 580 B.C from an unknown tribe not conversant with the Torah.
On behalf of Muhammad Rasulullah, I do not support the common attitude of saying what Allah has not said.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2015 at 5:39am
Quote You are following the footsteps of the followers of Muhammad Rasulullah who do not know about his mission. He never says that the Bible is not the Words of Allah the Lord of the universe. He says that he believes in all that Allah the Lord of the universe revealed to his Messengers and Prophets.
That's not what I meant.
Muslims tend to take the Quran by the word (as did the Christians with respect to the bible until "recently"). If I remember it correctly Noah and Adam are considered as prophets in Islam. Science proves that there was no Adam in a literal sense nor could the flooding/Ark have ever happened as described. Not to talk about Abrahams/Noahs age and the total lack of historical traces regarding their existence ....


So you have a conflict.



Airmano

Edited by airmano - 02 July 2015 at 6:01am
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Friendship Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2015 at 8:32am
Airmano


I do not know what is your field of study. As a scientist, science has never contradicted or disputed with Qur'an.For example Allah says,
He raised up the sky without pillars that one can see." Even history does not dispute with the Qur'an. Have you even been to Egypt and visited their museum? Please join this forum to understand what you can understand but reject it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 July 2015 at 3:02pm
Quote Friendship: I do not know what is your field of study
Physics
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Quote Science has never contradicted or disputed with Qur'an
Pretty much correct (but not entirely)

There is a simple reason for it. If you look at a Surah like Al-Fil (105) it goes:

Have you not considered, [O Muhammad], how your Lord dealt with the companions of the elephant?
Did He not make their plan into misguidance?
And He sent against them birds in flocks,
Striking them with stones of hard clay,
And He made them like eaten straw.


There is not one single scientifically relevant statement in here. Just to be clear: I have chosen this Surah only on the basis of its length (too long = too much) before even reading it. It would apply to other Surahs as well. In clear terms: From a scientific point of view the Quran holds barely any useful info. In this respect it is a bit like saying: No scientist has ever contradicted or disputed a poem of Rainer Maria Rilke . Sure not!

For the few remaining cases ("Mountains and their roots", "embryology" and "primary nebulae" etc) nobody in science takes these "Quranic miracles" seriously. Seriously !
I do however think that scientists have the responsibility of teaching and correcting (i.e I think they should stand up more often against nonsense including the Quranic miracles), and here my colleagues miserably fail.
They just don't bother, with a few laudable exceptions like the Pakistani Hoodboy who is an excellent speaker & scientist. Unfortunately I'm really worried that one day I might open a newspaper announcing that he has been murdered by a Muslim extremist.
This is probably the second (or first ?) and really troublesome reason why you do not have many scientists opposing these " Quranic miracles".
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Quote He raised up the sky without pillars that one can see
That's just what I mean. Its a nonsensical statement. Please read this line again and try to forget what scholars told you about it, just for a second. Then you may see that this sentence (at least isolated as such) holds no useful scientific information.
What you probably see is what scholars without any scientific education have been interpreting into it, but it's just not there !

Did you ever hold a book on Quantum Mechanics in your hand ? Or did you ever read (or even understand ?) Maxwells equations ? . If you did, you would know how many side aspects you have to understand to get the full picture - and why you need to study a full text book to grasp the dimension of it.

I really don't want to be offensive, but hoping that a 11 word sentence like the one you threw in could contain anything useful, is something you can only say if you don't know anything about science. Again: No offense intended.

Just to finish: If these texts strike an emotional chord in you, that's fine with me and I can willingly accept this. But on a scientific level there is no room for these "miracle claims".



Airmano

Edited by airmano - 05 July 2015 at 7:06am
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ovibos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2016 at 3:12am
Originally posted by Shibboleth Shibboleth wrote:



<p ="Msonormal" style="margin-top: 12pt; text-indent: 0.2in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><span style="">�</span>Sometimes a different objection is raised.
Some feel that the Bible was the Word of God, but it has been distorted
and corrupted by men so that now we can no longer trust it. Can this be true?<o:p></o:p></span>



<p ="Msonormal" style="margin-top: 6pt; text-indent: 0.2in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">�Let us repeat a verse from the
Qur�an. But now we will discuss it from a different
angle. �After those prophets We sent forth Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming
the Torah already revealed, and gave him the Gospel, in which there is guidance
and light, corroborating that which was revealed before it in the Torah, a
guide and an admonition to the righteous. Therefore let the followers of the
Gospel judge in accordance with what Allah has revealed therein. Evil-doers are
those that do not base their judgements on Allah�s revelations.��Sura�5, Al-Ma�ida
[The Table], verses�46,�47.� (The Qur'an also accepts Jesus as the son of God,just as it does Adam)<o:p></o:p></span>



<p ="Msonormal" style="margin-top: 6pt; text-indent: 0.2in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">�If, at the time these words were
written, the Bible had already been corrupted, how could believers in the
Gospel �judge in accordance with what Allah had revealed therein�? Thus
believers in the Qur�an accept that the Bible was uncorrupted at the time the
Qur�an was written (about one thousand three hundred years ago). On the other
hand, there exist manuscripts of the Bible written four hundred or five hundred
years before that time that are on public display in museums today. When
comparing our modern Bibles with these ancient manuscripts, it is easily seen
that there is no significant difference. The Bible is substantially the same.
Certainly, the Bible has not changed since those words were written in the
Qur�an saying that in the Gospel �there is guidance and light.�<o:p></o:p></span>



<p ="Msonormal" style="margin-top: 6pt; text-indent: 0.2in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">�Thus, a person who believes in the
Qur�an will agree that the Bible has not been corrupted and that it is still
the Word of God. But even for people who do not believe in the Qur�an there is
abundant proof that the Bible has not been corrupted by men since its original
writing. What proof? Ancient manuscripts.<o:p></o:p></span>



<p ="Msonormal" style="margin-top: 6pt; text-indent: 0.2in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">�Regarding the preserving of the
Greek Scriptures (Injil) until our day, a scientist pointed out: �The
interval then between the dates of original composition and the earliest extant
evidence becomes so small as to be in fact negligible, and the last foundation
for any doubt that the Scriptures have come down to us substantially as they
were written has now been removed.� (The Bible and Archaeology,
by Sir Frederic Kenyon) Sir Frederic Kenyon is here expressing the widely
accepted fact that we can read in the Greek Scriptures (Injil)
substantially what the original writers, under inspiration, put there. There
has been no gross distortion.<o:p></o:p></span>



<p ="Msonormal" style="margin-top: 6pt; text-indent: 0.2in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">�Regarding the Hebrew Scriptures (Tevrat),
the external proof is equally strong that they have been preserved faithfully.
The ancient copyists of those scriptures were renowned for their accuracy.
Today there are seventeen hundred ancient manuscripts of the Hebrew Scriptures
of the Bible in existence, and comparison shows them to be substantially the
same. In 1947, some very ancient manuscripts were discovered in the region of
the <st1:place w:st="on">Dead Sea</st1:place>. They included some that were a
thousand years older than any hitherto extant. Yet a comparison of these
ancient manuscripts with our modern Bible shows little significant variation,
especially with regard to teaching and doctrine. After examining these newly
discovered ancient documents, Professor Millar Burrows said: �The general
reader and student of the Bible may be satisfied to note that nothing in all
this changes our understanding of the religious teachings of the Bible
.�.�. The essential truth and the will of God revealed in the Bible,
however, have been preserved unchanged through all the vicissitudes in the
transmission of the text.��The <st1:place w:st="on">Dead Sea</st1:place>
Scrolls, by Millar Burrows.<o:p></o:p></span>



<p ="Msonormal" style="margin-top: 6pt; text-indent: 0.2in;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">�Is this not reasonable? Should we
not expect that the Almighty God would be able to preserve his Word
uncorrupted? The Bible itself says: �The green grass has dried up, the blossom
has withered; but as for the word of our God, it will last to time
indefinite.��Isaiah 40:8.<o:p></o:p></span>





I believe that the Gospel mentioned in Al Maa'ida 5:46-47 is the true gospel. It is likely that the true gospel or the authentic gospel is the same as the Hebrew gospel or what Jerome called as "Matthei authenticum". The gospel was written in Hebrew, and it's different from the Canonical Matthew. It is stated in Bukhari that Waraqa ibn Naufal, the uncle of the Prophet Muhammad's wife, copied a gospel from Hebrew to Arabic, and it is very likely that the gospel that Waraqa had was the Hebrew Gospel or the authentic Matthew.
in short, in the time of Waraqa ibn Naufal, the original gospel still existed.

About the Torah, the current Torah is not written by Moses himself. Many biblical scholars say that the Torah was written by several different authors called J, E, P, and D. However, not every part of the Torah is written by those four. I believe that some parts of the Torah (like the Ten Commandments for instance) are actually from Moses himself. Those parts of the Torah that originally were from Moses himself are still preserved today.

I believe that some parts of the Bible (not all) are really inspired form God Almighty, and those parts are still intact (not corrupted).
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