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I really have no idea about the different sects/denominations (?) of Islam. I know my Muslim friends are Sunni. I know there are Shi'a also. 

I am reading a little tonight as I have done before on Sufi. 

I find Sufism something that truly appeals to me, speaks what seems like real spiritual truth and what I would feel really comfortable with. I cannot believe the similarities with Catholicism in many regards. 

Is there a problem in Orthodox Islam, with Sufism ? Can I get some clarity on this please. 

I'd be really interested to learn more on this aspect of Islam. 

I just read something there, took about fifteen minutes, and it was like spiritual food. It feeds you. And it made so many references to the Qu'ran and made them come alive - make 'sense,' in a way that means something to me. 

I can get this with the bible too - see similarities - a similar spiritual reality. I'd like to learn more. Any directions ? References to the 'good' stuff ?

Thanks

God bless

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Gulliver Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 12 September 2008 Status: Offline Points: 621	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gulliver Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Query Posted: 30 March 2009 at 1:26pm
	I really have no idea about the different sects/denominations (?) of Islam. I know my Muslim friends are Sunni. I know there are Shi'a also. I am reading a little tonight as I have done before on Sufi. I find Sufism something that truly appeals to me, speaks what seems like real spiritual truth and what I would feel really comfortable with. I cannot believe the similarities with Catholicism in many regards. Is there a problem in Orthodox Islam, with Sufism ? Can I get some clarity on this please. I'd be really interested to learn more on this aspect of Islam. I just read something there, took about fifteen minutes, and it was like spiritual food. It feeds you. And it made so many references to the Qu'ran and made them come alive - make 'sense,' in a way that means something to me. I can get this with the bible too - see similarities - a similar spiritual reality. I'd like to learn more. Any directions ? References to the 'good' stuff ? Thanks God bless

savant Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 14 February 2009 Status: Offline Points: 98	Post Options Post Reply Quote savant Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 March 2009 at 6:40am
	There is no problem with Sufism; This is path; objective is same; Sufism is also called Tariqat and it is an aide to follow Islamic principles and rules. Below I am quoting from book of well known Sufi. INTRODUCTION to Sufism All Praise is for Allah, and His Blessings be upon His Prophet, who is kind and benevolent. Sufis always subjugated the Tariqat to Shariat. We would often hear them saying, �Sharia is the Ruler over every Human soul and Jinn, Tariqat is the slave of Sharia, Tariqat was an aide to Sharia, Tariqat is to help you follow the Principles of Sharia�. To be concise Sharia is the real, essential and vital. Hazrat Jee would give us practical training, and very specifically would teach to adopt Sunnah (the practical teachings of the Holy Prophet) and Mustahibbat (preferable elective deeds of Islamic sharia). In commercial dealings and in social intercourse, he would always emphasize adherence to Sharia. It was not possible to live as a Muslim without fulfilling religious obligations (faraiz) Hazrat Jee would also explain us the core meanings of Tariqat. The word was derived from Arabic word, �tareeq� meaning a path. When we tread continuously on a grassy field, there would be an alleyway where no follicle would grow, due to constant friction of the heels; this path is called tareeq in Arabic Language. The intention of Tariqat is that by uninterrupted remembrance of Allah SWT there develops a relationship between ones heart and that of the Creator; where none else would have any interference. The heart and soul become immune to the pulls of worldly stuff. One would not be inclined towards anyone, other than Allah SWT for submission .One would not be ready to rely on any one other than Allah SWT. The heart and soul by all means would be attentive to Allah�s SWT presence. Ziker (Remembrance of Allah) and meditation is all for this purpose. All the struggle is for this reason, that most of our time is spent in manner that we feel that Allah SWT is watching us and we don�t commit contrary to His commands. That is what our Sheikh used to emphasize that you should only bother about the assent of Allah SWT. He would say that people wish mostly for abstinence, being the spiritual guide (Sheikh) and reward of virtue in future state, but rarely for the love of Allah SWT. To get His concurrence first step is following of the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (SAW). One cannot get the gratification of Allah SWT without following the footsteps of the Holy Prophet (Sunnah). To develop ones heart in a manner wherein each and every ritual of the Holy Prophet (SAW) becomes so dear, that an individual is constrained to follow Sunnah, the lip service of the love of Prophet (SAW) does not satisfy ones inner self. This is the objective of Tariqat. To achieve this end we have to devout our time for remembrance of Allah (Ziker Elahi) meditation (Maraqaba) and companionship (Suhbat) with pious souls (Ahl Allah). (May Allah make this easy for all of us to understand the true meanings of this philosophy and it gets root into our hearts and souls).
	Never Give up

savant Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 14 February 2009 Status: Offline Points: 98	Post Options Post Reply Quote savant Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 March 2009 at 6:41am
	MEANING The meaning of Mysticism is self purification, cleansing of the inner self. That is to refine the inner self of all the evils e.g irresistible desires of this world, hypocrisy, pretence, jealousy, rivalry and malice etc. To decorate the heart with agreeable attributes of Belief in Allah, fear of Allah, modesty, patience, thankfulness and trepidation etc. To cleanse the Heart of the thoughts of all others, except Allah SWT. The person becomes such that during most of his times he is thoughtful of His divine presence. On Him he relies, and on Him he starts to expect, to Him he asks for help, to Him he loves and to Him he fears. The individual is not bothered about the creatures, to this state of mind and heart, the Holy Book of Quran ascribes as Purification �tazkiah�. Allah SWT has installed two spiritual powers in each human being, one pulls him towards His obedience, and the other grabs him to the path of defiance .The objective of purification is to potentiate the positive forces, and weaken the negative forces. The positive forces have been named as Soul (RUH / QALAB) and negative forces as Nafas. Collision between these two forces continues till the end of life, so we have to continue the effort for purification till death. The reality of purification is to cleanse our selves from evil desires and attain superior traits, and as thus fill our hearts with the true love of our Creator, as a result of which our personality develops in a manner that we are pleased to live by the instructions of Allah SWT and an inner hatred develops over defiance of Sharia. And thus each and every practice of the life of Holy Prophet (SAW) becomes so dear that one could not help but follow it with veneration. Mysticism per say, is to encourage our hearts for willfully following the Sharia. After purification of the heart and soul it becomes practically impossible to act against the Sharia Islamia.( May Allah make this clause comprehendible to all Muslim brethren, myself and my friends, and let us modify our lives according to it.) Amen
	Never Give up

savant Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 14 February 2009 Status: Offline Points: 98	Post Options Post Reply Quote savant Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 March 2009 at 6:43am
	PURPOSE The intent of Mysticism is to establish intimate association with Allah SWT .An individual gets it as a special favour from Him, a result of His pleasure and intimate bonding. One then feels two sorts of states within him. Firstly a feeling of servitude, and secondly of ever attendance. In servitude, ones reticence, being selfless and a slave develops. As a slave has no rights, what so ever, his only concern is to please his master, and earn His bliss. He is contended over whatever he gets and would not complain if he got nothing. That is why he is always in a state of gratitude. This is the basic difference between an employee and a slave, a worker has certain rights while a slave has none. Employee works for a specific time and a destined job with a contract to get something in return; if the specifications change he may deny the services being rendered. A slave has to accomplish the demands of the master and expects nothing in return, other than the pleasure of the master. In the feeling of ever attendance, the individual dwells in a stance whereby he visualizes the presence of Allah SWT through the eye of his imagination. This belief gets strong root in the heart, or that Allah SWT is directly watching him. This has been explained in a Hadith Pak :�You pray to Allah as if you are looking at Him, and if it is not possible, then pray and be sure He is looking at you.� Remember, nothing in these Universes is hidden from His knowledge and Omnipotence. The hidden thoughts in the heart and mind are very well in His awareness. One whose state of mind is such, can he dare to go astray? He is firm that His divine presence is watching him all the time and he would be delightfully tempted to obey His commands, and defiance would become loathsome for him. To leave all offences for the sake of Allah SWT would become very easy for him. To obey Allah for the sake of no reward other than His pleasure would be simple to attain.
	Never Give up

savant Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 14 February 2009 Status: Offline Points: 98	Post Options Post Reply Quote savant Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 March 2009 at 6:47am
	MEANS Remembrance of Allah in imagination (Ziker e Qalbi) is more effective, and helps gain the objective in a shorter span of time. When the inner self is attentive towards Allah SWT the Satan cannot take the liberty of distracting the individual. The Satan can only cause disruption, when the heart or inner self is inattentive to Ziker and Allah SWT as such, as said in Quran e Majeed: �Meaning thereby, whosoever, is negligent to the remembrance of Rahman, Allah subdues him to Satan, who becomes his mate.� Now, one can well imagine when the Satan is the companion, how he pacifies after an error has been committed. The Satan does not let one be ashamed for the sinful act, so one might not get inclined to ask for forgiveness. It is its greatest enmity to humans, does not let one repent. (May Allah save us from its evil designs Amen) For this reason too, we need to perform Ziker all the time, so we can save ourselves from his hostility. We should all the time be praying to Allah SWT, that our attentions get focused from remembrance (Ziker) to the One remembered (Mazkoor) i.e. Allah SWT, and this would be achieved through incalculable remembrance. May Allah SWT also grant us an affiliation to His Name. Amen.
	Never Give up

Hayfa Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Female Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2368	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hayfa Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 March 2009 at 7:27am
	Hi Gulliver, No they are compatible. I think of it as improving and connecting to our Creator. Our Inner. Shariah or 'rules' are often tied to the Outer. And both should enhance each other. I think of myself as a spiritual person, less of a ritual / rule person. I have learned the 'rules' enable me to build that connection. A great book is called Purification of the Heart by Hamza Yusuf. He is at Zaytuna Institute. There CDSs are great. I took a terrific course online with then called: Getting Cloer to Allah. It is all about God Consciousness..
	When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi

aka2x2 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Male Joined: 12 September 2006 Status: Offline Points: 446	Post Options Post Reply Quote aka2x2 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 April 2009 at 6:04am
	I believe that Shia was a political movement started by Persian Muslims. The Persian Empire used to have a rigid class system. The majority of the population was born into the lower peasant class and stayed there all their lives. Islam promised equality and justice for all. Persian masses converted to Islam and the Persian Empire fell before the Arab Muslim army. However, afterwards, Arabs started to discriminate between Arab Muslims and Ajam Muslims, or Arab and non-Arab Muslims. This was particularly hard for Persians who had come to Islam for its promise of equality. Furthermore, the new religion was teaching them that they should follow God, the Prophet and those in charge of their affairs. In other words the Arab Khalif was telling the non-Arab population that they had to accept the status quo and dissent was forbidden by Quran. Persians turned this argument on its head by rejecting the whole notion of Khalifate. They said the true leaders of the Muslim Ummah were chosen by God. They said the leaders should have been the Prophet�s descendants through his daughter and son-in-law Ali. Therefore, any other government was against the will of God and had to be removed. They were then able to mount a military campaign against the central government which ended in a new Khalifate dynasty and a semi-autonomous Iran. Once the political objective was accomplished the Sunni/Shia debate became an academic affair for a long time. Centuries later Otoman and Safavid empires were fighting each other for territory. They used the Sunni/Shia divide to justify a brutal war that pitched Muslim against Muslim. This war was welcomed and encouraged by the colonial powers. They grabbed land from both sides of the weakened Muslim Umma. The brutality of this war has split the Sunni and Shia ever since and enemies of Islam have exploited the division time and again. I believe Sufism came about with the Mongols invasion of the Middle-East. Muslims were at the height of their civilization when the Mongol hordes arrived and there was a profound cultural shock from the defeat they suffered from Mongols. In a short time the Mongols laid waste to many Muslim cities and left a path of death and destruction in their wake. Afterwards, some Muslims denounced all material concerns and Sufism became prevalent. The great Sufi poet Rumi came of age in this era. He turned away from the cruel world outside and sought God inside of himself. Muslim literature and philosophy was never the same again.
	Respectfully aka2x2

Gulliver Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 12 September 2008 Status: Offline Points: 621	Post Options Post Reply Quote Gulliver Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 April 2009 at 6:51am
	Thanks Servant, and thank you AKA for that information. It's very sad how peoples are pitted against each other under the guise of religion. Seen that here too in Ireland with the whole Catholic v Protestant thing, and that too was steeped in colonialism. Even the power of the 'Church' itself use these divisions in the past to their own advantage it seemed to me. "He turned away from the cruel world outside and sought God inside of himself." 'The Kingdom of God is within you.... " I wonder that we do have to go within and find that, whatever it is - so that it can be lived without in the society in which we find ourselves. Even these days, the psychologists and psychiatrists often seem to lead people 'within' to find some peace, if it can be found. I see in some of reading I did since last night that Sufis have been branded, by some quarters, 'heretics'. Interestingly, similar spiritual types - 'mystics' were branded heretical too within Catholicism in the past - at least for a time initially. I wonder that a lot of this is not about power. Anyone who would suggest that the individual is spiritually powerful in their own right, is perceived as a threat to the religious government - those who want the real temporal power and control. But it begs the question - what is the truth in the religion itself. Should everyone have their own little belief system. Or is there need for central governance. Were having that kind of conversation about the Catholic Church recently. The involvement of the laiety - or lack of it. They may seek to take power back, control of aspects of their own spiritual lives they feel they have a right to - spiritually growing up, or trying to, not always looking to 'father'. But the 'hierarchy' don't like this. A threat to the status quo. Some groups are branded heretical, excommunicated. It's a big and complex issue. Anyway, thanks again.