QURAN QUESTION

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THE QURAN OVER AND OVER AGAIN SAYS 'WE' THIS AND 'WE' THAT. 
WHO ARE THE 'WE' REFERING TO.
IF YOU KNOW PLEASE TELL ME. BUT I  WOULD LIKE TO HAVE  REFERENCES  FROM THE QURAN TO BACK UP YOUR  REPLY. 
MANY THANKS

Edited by Eric J - 05 June 2008 at 6:32pm

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Eric J Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Starter Joined: 05 June 2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4	Post Options Post Reply Quote Eric J Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: QURAN QUESTION Posted: 05 June 2008 at 6:28pm
	THE QURAN OVER AND OVER AGAIN SAYS 'WE' THIS AND 'WE' THAT. WHO ARE THE 'WE' REFERING TO. IF YOU KNOW PLEASE TELL ME. BUT I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE REFERENCES FROM THE QURAN TO BACK UP YOUR REPLY. MANY THANKS Edited by Eric J - 05 June 2008 at 6:32pm

Woodstock Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 09 August 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 51	Post Options Post Reply Quote Woodstock Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 June 2008 at 6:15am
	www.islam101.com/tauheed/AllahWE.htm Edited by Woodstock - 06 June 2008 at 7:07am
	Speak a little Learn alot.

Eric J Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Starter Joined: 05 June 2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4	Post Options Post Reply Quote Eric J Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 June 2008 at 10:38am
	Thank you very much for replying to my question so soon. However when �WE� is used in any context it always denotes the presence of one or more persons or the inclusion of one or more persons whether present or not. for instance, you mention that WE, humans, use the same word when speaking, that is true, but it is always referring to one person, the one speaking, plus one or more others or a body of people. i.e. the Queen when speaking says �WE� meaning, either herself and her husband or the royal family as a whole or even herself and the country that she rules over. This also applies to other renderings of the word whether used by heads of state, heads of families etc. Therefore when the Quran says �WE� it can only be; one, Allah addressing himself as �The One God� but including and involving others i.e. the Holy Angels or others. As you rightly say there is only One God. There is no godhead or trinity or triune of Gods. However, you mentioned Genesis 1;26; where it says �Let us make man in our image�, here God is talking not of a trinity or triune of gods but he is addressing another, that one being Jesus Christ. We see confirmation of this in many other scriptures in both the Hebrew and Greek texts i.e. Colossians 1; 15, and Proverbs 8; 30, are just a sample. Therefore in conclusion I�m sure you will agree that it stands to reason that when God says �WE� he is including �others� in what he is going to say. Also, Almighty God does not need to consult any others as to what he should do, so by saying �WE� or Let �US� make man in �OUR� image he is dignifying his heavenly creation. If you wish to further this or any other points please let me know. Thanking you. Eric J.

Chrysalis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 25 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2033	Post Options Post Reply Quote Chrysalis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 June 2008 at 1:51pm
	Hello Eric. . . This basically an issue of translation. You have to understand that Arabic is a very unique language, especially when it comes to grammar etc. Thus, english translations do not do justice to the actual meaning when comprehended in English. For example, many times . . .there is not a proper word to translate something from Arabic into English. An example would be the word "God" for Allah. Now the word God, implies the male gender . . . whereas the word Allah does not imply gender. Allah is niether male NOR female. . . Allah is beyond our concepts of gender. Male/Female genders are only for living-things that have to reproduce . . . a Superioir, Divine Being is beyond those limitations. . .hence Allah in Arabic is a unique word, with no gender connotations. Unfort, I do not hav a reference for that right now, since this was a discussion by a scholar (Dr. Zakir Naik). I will try and post the link to the video later when I find it. Perhaps Arabic-Speakers can back me up on that . . . That example was just to give an e.g of the complexity of the Arabic language. . . .thus when the English translation reads "We" , that does not neccessarily mean that the Arabic text is talking about mutilple persons! There may be another word for it altogether in Arabic that does not translate appropriatley in the english language hence the word "We" I can give you another example from Urdu (a language spoken in South-Asia) There is a word "Main" for "Me" or "I" and then there is a word "Hum" which means BOTH "We" and "Me" (for a single person) ! ! ! ! For a single person, Hum is usually used by ppl of stature, or a respectful position. Elderly will usually refer to themselves as "Hum". Or Kings, leaders, scholars will use the word for themselves. . . . and when translated into english, the word "hum" is translated as "We". . . .does that mean mutiple people are involved? No. I hope u get what I'm trying to say :) wish there was an easier way to explain. Besides, if the word "We" used by Allah in the Qur'an, were meant to represent another partner/diety (or whatver you're referring to) It would have been stated so. According to Non-Muslims, Muhammad was an ordinary non-prophetic man, why didint he then hint at the plurality of God? Why not explicitly mention that certain partner somehwre? or even associate himself as one? Thats because Allah has always been represented as the One and Only throughout the advent of Islam . . . .

Hamzah Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 04 April 2008 Location: Saudi Arabia Status: Offline Points: 85	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hamzah Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 June 2008 at 3:54pm
	Chrysalis I am arabic speaking and i could have not expained it better, may Allah bless you. Eric thank you for your valid question, in arabic when you use we or us to speak of oneself, it is used as a sign of authoroty and majesty, for example in our country the king will adress the people with a new rule or order will issue it with the word we i.e: We king so and so have ordered the following, in arabic it refers to him only and he is speaking on his behalf and not the royal family as a whole.
	"Whosoever fears Allah, he will appoint for him a way out, and provide for him from where he does not expect"

Eric J Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Starter Joined: 05 June 2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4	Post Options Post Reply Quote Eric J Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 June 2008 at 4:26pm
	Many Thanks for your reply, much apreciated. Eric

Eric J Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Starter Joined: 05 June 2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4	Post Options Post Reply Quote Eric J Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 June 2008 at 4:33pm
	Hi, Many Thanks for your reply it was very much apreciated. I think you have made a very valid point. Perhaps this is one of the many problems with society today, that much is misunderstood because of translation problems. If the whole world was of one language maybe we would al get along beter. Eric

Chrysalis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 25 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2033	Post Options Post Reply Quote Chrysalis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 June 2008 at 2:42am
	Hamzah: Jazaakallah Khair . Eric: I'm glad to know your Question was answered. I hope whatever other misconceptions/questions you have are also answered. Feel free to ask, we all love to share our views/opinions on Islam with whatver little knowledge we have. I also appreciate the fact that you are making an effort to understand something from the source (i.e muslims/islam) rather then propogandists. :)