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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2008 at 6:54pm
Delta-
 
 
My apologies but I have to jump on the band wagon myself. No sincere Christian with the intent on dialogue wll start discussion with the following thesis: I hate Islam not muslims.
 
That simplistic, yet contradictory tone is non-sensical. You cannot dettach all Muslims from their religion especially Muslims who practice Islam faitfully the same can be said about Christians and Christianity. Unless you consider Muslims misguided (which is your opinion) it does you no good and no converts by starting a thesis using the word "hate."
 
I think the main problem with Christians coming to this site is they come here trying to disprove Islam while many of them only have an amateur's knowledge of Islam. While else would many of them spend time googling or net searching on anti-Islam websites? If Christians have a sincere disagreement with Islam you must be prepared to accept all kinds of responses and different answers not simply reject ones and accept ones.
 
For example many Christians don't understand (and it took me awhile to understand) that  the Arabic language isn't as simplistic as English. There are many words in Arabic when translated into English, have different meanings. Although the English translations and the usage of words are clear to us English speakers there are words which may require explaining.
 
For instance in the first Surah "The Exordium" or The Opening, in the penguin edition of the Qur'an God says in first-person-plural:
 
"All praises are due to Allah Lord of the Universe!"
 
Some other Qur'an say "All praise sare due (to Allah) Creator and Sustainer of the Worlds!"
 
The word Alameen has different meanings. It means universe, worlds etc. It means "all that exists."
 
I think it is in the best interest of our Christian neighbors to come with a more humble approach. Instead of posting stuff about "The truth about Islam" to anti-Islamic sites. This is not proving a point objectively its doing it the lazy way!


Edited by Israfil - 13 May 2008 at 9:40pm
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truthnowcome View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truthnowcome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2008 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

tnc-  Yes I know it is in war.  You are completely misunderstanding my point!! 
 
I was agreeing with BMZ that not all the europeans would be slaughtered.-"By simply pointing out just 9:5 as a verse on it's own and showing it as a Commandment to Muslims to fight all others in the world, is being plain dishonest. LOL"
 
"If 9:5 were an order to kill, all the Europeans, [I made this bold] who came and later colonised Muslim lands by deceit, would have been killed the day they stepped in. LOL"
 
Yes, Numbers and Joshua is history of what GOD commanded to keep His chosen people free form horrible negative influence.
 
LOL!!  relax tnc!!

By killing inocent people?

But what you have to say about gentle Jesus sacond coming? Do you think the Zionis Christians is doing the right thing after youwould have read this?:
 

  Now, let look at your King of Kings and Lord of Lords, he is your gentle Jesus; he said if your enemy slap you on one side of your cheek give him the other.

REVELATION 19

It is mentioned: for he is Lord of Lord, and king of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen and faithful. (Rev.17:13-14)

  Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife (the church) hath made herself ready. (Rev. 19:7)

 And to her (the church) was granted that she (the church) should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of the saint. (V.8)

 And he said unto me, Write, Bless are THEY which are called unto the marriage SUPPER of the Lamb. And he said unto me, These are the true saying of God. (V.9)

 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the FOWLS that flies in the midst of heaven come and gather yourself together unto the SUPPER of the Great God; that you may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. (Rev.1917-18)

 We have the saint and the fowls that fly in midst (Air) of heaven, they are called unto the marriage SUPPER to eat of those people. Eat what people, are they cannibal? No! It is war they will declare on them from the air (midst Heaven) which fowls or bird that flies in midst (Air) heaven can eat those people, feather bird or iron bird? Its plane, your gentle Jesus will drop bombs on  the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. (Rev.1917-18)

 This one is a bit more clear: Zechariah 14:12 Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will (A)rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth.

That is a nuclear war, only a Nuke can do that and it is a stone throw in our time!

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smith the nation: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (Revelation 19:15)

IT�S YOUR GENTLE JESUS MEEK AND MILD!

And again make no mistake, the �Anointed President� already preparing the way by �bombing away anyone who stand in the way like the bible says they will �eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. (Rev.1917-18)

 This is no joke read for your self:

Link: The Despoiling Of America

How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State

Clip:

The First Prince of the Theocratic States of America

 It happened quietly, with barely a mention in the media. Only the Washington Post dutifully reported it.[1] And only Kevin Phillips saw its significance in his new book, American Dynasty.[2] On December 24, 2001, Pat Robertson resigned his position as President of the Christian Coalition.

 

Behind the scenes religious conservatives were abuzz with excitement. They believed Robertson had stepped down to allow the ascendance of the President of the United States of America to take his rightful place as the head of the true American Holy Christian Church.

 

Robertson�s act was symbolic, but it carried a secret and solemn revelation to the faithful. It was the signal that the Bush administration was a government under God that was led by an anointed President who would be the first regent in a dynasty of regents awaiting the return of Jesus to earth. The President would now be the minister through whom God would execute His will in the nation. George W. Bush accepted his scepter and his sword with humility, grace and a sense of exultation.

 

As Antonin Scalia, Associate Justice of the Supreme Court explained a few months later, the Bible teaches and Christians believe �� that government �derives its moral authority from God. Government is the �minister of God� with powers to �revenge,� to �execute wrath,� including even wrath by the sword��[3]

 George W. Bush began to wield the sword of God�s revenge with relish from the beginning of his administration, but most of us missed the sword play. I have taken the liberty to paraphrase an illustration from Leo Strauss, the father of the neo-conservative movement, which gives us a clue of how the hiding is done:

�One ought not to say to those whom one wants to kill, �Give me your votes, because your votes will enable me to kill you and I want to kill you,� but merely, �Give me your votes,� for once you have the power of the votes in your hand, you can satisfy your desire.�[4]

Notwithstanding the advice, the President�s foreign policy revealed a flair for saber rattling. He warned the world that �nations are either with us or they�re against us!� His speeches, often containing allusions to biblical passages, were spoken with the certainty of a man who holds the authority of God�s wrath on earth, for he not only challenged the evil nations of the world, singling out Iraq, Syria, Iran, and North Korea as the �axis of evil,� but he wielded the sword of punishment and the sword of revenge against his own people: the American poor and the middle class who according to the religious right have earned God�s wrath by their licentiousness and undisciplined lives.

 End of quote

---------------------------

And he also has his flock to help him: American Christian Fundamentalist Leader Calls For Global War),

TV Evangelist John Hagee Wants War With Iran, and He Wants It Now! by Bill Barnwell

Destroy Islam clip:

By David Corn

13/03/08 "Mother Jones" -- -- Senator John McCain hailed as a spiritual adviser an Ohio megachurch pastor who has called upon Christians to wage a "war" against the "false religion" of Islam with the aim of destroying it.

 

 
 
 
LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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Nausheen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nausheen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2008 at 10:36pm
Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir Rajeem,
Bismillah ir Rahman ir Rahim
 
>>As for religion, I must say that I hate Islam, make that very clear. But not muslims as you and all of you. I attack Islam, not persons, i.e., muslims<<
 
Sounds like "hate the sin but not the sinner" approach got messed up this time.
 
The arabic word Islam is from the root : seen, laam, mim, which means "peace".
Islam means "submission to the will of God". Those who do this act of submission are termed "muslims" - to understand this one may need to know arabic - how nouns and verbs come from the  same root, but have different beginnings and endings.  
 
So, you said in your post that you hate "peace", and "the act of submission to God", however you do not hate those who perform this act, ie who "submit to God".
 
Does that bear any logic?
 
You hate a religion but not the followers of that religion? That is only possible if you think the followers are not sincere to the path they associate themselves to, or are not passionate enough for their choices. Neither of which is true. So if you come here with "hate" which by the way is also not congruous to your own faith, you should receive little tolerance.
 
You find this website heavily filtered, but I can still see your membership and your hate comments tolerated in broad daylight - that is some filtering, alhamdulillah.
 
 
 
 


Edited by Nausheen - 14 May 2008 at 10:44pm
<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa

Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena

wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
[/COLOR]
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Delta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2008 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

May I ask, if that view is personal? because I don't know of any who associate themselves to the Roman Catholic church and yet discount the entire O/T.


No, We don't dismiss the OT, I just said that it is very old, and I mean very old...the time when the message of God was somehow tempered with human laws

You see that when Moses admitted divorce, then Jesus said : No, God don't allow that...

OT was not the verbatim word of God.....was just inspired

But Jesus is in fact the verbatim word of God made flesh

========
I also find it quite contrary to your interest in proving evidance of events through history, yet discounting an important source of history, for many if not for me.
=========

Jesus renewed it all, made things clear because He is the verbatim word of God in flesh

Old laws was clarified, renewed, so for a catholic the OT is a collection of prophecies about the Messiah and the history of the jews......as history unfolds...we reach Jesus who renewed it all

You have in here the words of Jesus about OLD and NEW

And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.

Mark, 2-22


================
Let me ask you this also, why do you hate the belief that says: submit to the Will of God, the One who gave you life, and the ability to see, hear, feel, think and so on?
===========

Good question, Honeto

I'm a father of two little children, our relationship is based on love and not fear and
slavery. What I most want from my children is love not fear and horror

And they as little children can't give me nothing

God is not a
tyrannic, He doesn't put you in straightjackets with a bunch of rules :

do this, do that, how to pray, how to eat, how to wear, how to wash, etc...etc...

Where God is there is liberty

(2 Corinthians 3,17)
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is]
liberty.

God doesn't need that men make a home for Him, He is the CREATOR, can't He make his own home in this world ? does He need men for that ?

God is love and nothing more

I said that I hate Islam (religion) because I see muslims lost and emptiness, just fearing the wrath of God, nothing more...they fear and don't love, they make rituals but yet they are hungry, and I feel sorrow

Love him Honeto, don't fear Him, open your heart, and just say to Him that you want to know Him and Love

A prayer just like this :

- Who are you God ? please give me strength in your truth , I want to love you, to give my soul and my life to you

What I mean is make your prayers, but never be biased with God

You will get your answer, believe me

============
Becaue that's all I do as a Muslim, submit with my whole heart and whole self, to none other than God.
Peace,
============

My little childrens don't submit to me, they love me

They run to me giving me kisses, a lot, and I am glad...is just what I want from them : love

When you love, then you respect
When you love, then you don't do anything wrong

Love is the key for not making sins


 


Edited by Delta - 15 May 2008 at 3:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote myahya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2008 at 1:26am
Delta: I said that I hate Islam (religion) because I see muslims lost and emptiness, just fearing the wrath of God, nothing more...they fear and don't love, they make rituals but yet they are hungry, and I feel sorrow

Unfortunately many people in this world are only looking at what Muslims do (or I�d better to say what news show them how Muslims are). As a Muslim I am personally sorry and I also feel deepest sorrow when I see lost Muslims and evil actions done by a group of lost Muslims or at least populations who have the label of being Muslim. But again, one can not say they hate Islam because of what the lost Muslims (or a Muslim-labeled population) may do or have done. Instead, they shall be sincere and do their best to be not lost and find the truth. It is our responsibility as a human being, isn�t it? I accept it (and do myself) if one says they hate the evil action of those who have been trying to produce and inject deviations in religions specially Islam and feel sorrow for those who are lost in this evil strategies and pray and do their best to not be a victim.

Who has told you Islam is only for fearing and wrath of God? Is it written in Quran? Or Mohammad (sawa) said? Go back to the life of the prophets (all of them) and you can see the deepest acts of love towards Allah swt. But please try not to be a one dimensional person who says everything is love and there is nothing more. I do not accept it. As soon as you speak of love, the hate is on the other side of the coin. Finding and choosing the right couple of love/hate in this world would be our art.

A prayer just like this :

God, please give me strength in your truth , I want to love you, to give my soul and my life to you

Such a prayer is what a sincere Muslim used to do everyday. Smile



Edited by myahya - 16 May 2008 at 4:35am
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