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Topic ClosedIranian Shiah Mullahs allow Sex change!!!

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Israfil View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2007 at 11:04am
Originally posted by Abu Mujahid Abu Mujahid wrote:

Israfil,

 

Women who has sex out of marriage are not immoral, Athiest can be pious. And now homos/trans or gender change are human rights issues. What is Next?

The current commericial gender change like that Mayor man did has nothing to do with gender correction. Nor it has any legal stand in sane world let alone in Islam.

UCLA or most other medical institutions claims are nothing but pure gender altering which Islam has prohibited.

 

 

Abu Mujahid


Let's go down the line here:

1) I have never explicitly indicated that women who have sex outside of marriage are immoral. Frankly, if I were to say women who did such acts ARE NOT immoral I would be doing so simply as commenting on the subjectivity of the word, immorality, not specifically stating my personal opinion on the matter.

2) Yes I did say Athiest can be pious simply by my understanding of ethics specifically the word piety. Piety the word itself has several meanings. Now, from the Islamic point of view you are referring to specific duties that are rendered "good" that are basically mandates principle to following Islam. when I said Athiest can be pious I'm basically saying that Athiest being adherents to the religion of Athiesm have the same capacity to be moral creatures as Muslims. For any Muslim to say "such and such person does not have the capacity because of their belief system" would basically equating them as sub-human. I believe every human being born on this planet is given the capacity to do good and become the best person they can be and to have fidelity to a specific religious system. this is what I mean when I said Atheist can be pious.

3) I have found that in many conservative socities most minorities (women, ethnic groups, gays, transsexual, transgender etc) are discriminated against heavily especially by those of the majority who adhere to a specific "higher law" which instructs them to do good and be fair. This is not always (and actually almost never) is the case. If the current Muslim socieities follow a higher source of law then why do we have the current crisis that we have today? Of course one could say "well, not all are pious in these countries" this would be true but it would seem releative to those societies that the majority would agree with those individuals who take th extreme action and discriminate against the minority. Again, this brings us back to the interpretation of doctrine. most Scholars (who by far are conservative) will interpret doctrine in accordance to their personal beliefs on various matters. The same goes for the minority. As you can see in the article the transsexual Imam interpreted doctrine in accordance to how he feels to fit in with his plan obviously so he does not obstruct the Holy words of God.

I don't see changing ones sex as right or wrong because I am not that person. I cannot call it evil because I see no harm in it. The person is not maiming their body as Rami has indicated. To rid yourself of specific sexual organs and replace them with opposite sex organs is not maiming anything its what they have called "changing ones anatomy." The same thing with breast implants. I know muslimahs personally who have revealed that they have had the surgical procedure. Do I agree with it? It's not right or wrong like I have said its simply a personal choice. I only imput my ethical imput when I see some type of positive (or negative) effect of the person and/society.

 

 

 

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rami View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2007 at 2:23am
Bi ismillahir rahmair raheem

None of the arguments provided have anything to do with people willfully having sex changes, if you would like to argue that homosexuality is not a choice but a genetic defect fine but having a sex change is a choice that is made which makes the arguments presented irrelevant.
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Israfil View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2007 at 10:59am
My argument never stemmed from whether or not their biological defect was compulsion. Its funny you mistaken that as I refuted your original position which was that the alternative was to use estrogen/testosterone pills. My position from this was, that the situation was more complex than simply taking pills if you cared to read what I wrote.
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Sawtul Khilafah View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2007 at 11:00am
Let me just clarify that Iran allows ANYONE to have a sex change, not just people who may have the biological problems mentioned by Israfil.
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Israfil View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2007 at 11:06am

Sawtul that doesn't make sense.

Why would a law condone a sex change simply because an individual wants a sex change? There would have to be a condition upon why the people in the government would make this law? People just don't give rights to others without some kind of reason. I think Sawtul you are pointing out the issue without knowing why they have made this law. I think your approach is misleading. You need to report all the facts. Gender-Identity disorder is a DISORDER or at least hypothetically speaking it is. I have shown you the scientific position making your position (and Rami's) moot.

I don't support Iran but I support people's right to do what they want with their body because its none of yours (or my) busines.



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Sawtul Khilafah View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2007 at 1:51pm

Yes I do know, they say anyone who feels like changing their gender can do it wether or not they have any biological problems.

And changing gender simply doesnt work as they all still look and sound more like what they used to be even after the operation. Look at this Iranian creature for example:

 

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Israfil View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2007 at 4:27pm

Sawtul,

You must understand that I simply cannot agree in the position that the Iranin lawmakers simply made a law that grants all people of the country to change their sex simply for recreational reasons. If this is actually true then Iranian lawmakers are simply dumb.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2007 at 6:33pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

My argument never stemmed from whether or not their biological defect was compulsion. Its funny you mistaken that as I refuted your original position which was that the alternative was to use estrogen/testosterone pills. My position from this was, that the situation was more complex than simply taking pills if you cared to read what I wrote.

im sorry br i read your post but it was a few days between reading it and replying.
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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